Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I know you’ve been a big Ten Hag defender so it says a lot you’re starting to question him, but I would argue that he isn’t the man for a top side with serious ambitions. He seems incapable of adapting his philosophies in order to become a better man manager. I don’t think any top player will tolerate his nonsense, especially considering most of the players he would manage are vastly more successful than he ever has been.

Imagine you’ve won a WC and multiple CL’s and then some bloke comes in and tells you that you can’t play in your favoured position because you’re not left footed so now you’re dropped for some Dutch league reject or a 36 year old part timer? fecking insane.
I don’t think there’s any environment he would cope very well in aside from the one he was in at Ajax, with someone else building the team for him and giving him by far and away the best collection of players in the country. Basically he needs to have a substantially better team on the pitch to succeed and there’s too much competition in big leagues for that to occur frequently.

He’s just outclassed by any half decent coach so easily that I cannot see him ever having a successful career in a top league.

I think he’s a very good manager but even at Ajax he didn’t really play well consistently, I remember watching a few games from them towards the end of his tenure and was alarmed at how rubbish they were. They used to come back from going one or two down and he’d have to rally them to come back and let’s not forget he had his staunch favourites like Tadic that he refused to drop.

He will eventually find a job where he does really well again but I have to say he really chose some poor battles to fight like the Varane, Maguire and Sancho situations.

I’m disgusted with the current squad I think we need to clean house and maybe ETH will have to be a sacrifice of that. But the cobbled together bizarre squad we have at the moment will take a decade to clear out naturally so maybe he had to consorted earth but unfortunately I think it will cost him his job.

The idea of a clean break under INEOS has strong appeal.

Rashford , Maguire, Awb, Casemiro, Donny, Varane, Bruno , Anthony, Onana, Mctominey, Eriksen, just a few names off the top of my head I’d like us to usher on.

The make up of the team is a relic of the past I think it’s so out of date it’s almost funny. We don’t have the profile of players any top European club has and maybe ETH was building that out but it’s not working when he keeps playing terrible players like Rashford etc.

He’s sacking himself and like I say I think hell
Be gone after Liverpool batter us probably with talk of INEOS having someone left field in mind.
 
10 years of utterly shite football is impressive, especially when you consider that we've had 5 full-time managers in that period of time.
 
Says absolutely nothing. Most on here are actually objective when it comes to managers and don't just blindly back them.
There's the issue. Anyone backing him now isn't being objective. 400m of shite signings and football going nowhere.
 
There are no excuses, and there isn't a single performance.
My argument for keeping him is based on the simple situation of getting rid of the revolving door on the managers office.

We had to do this when we took on a young manager from Aberdeen with a very similar CV, he was given five years, and turned out to be the greatest manager England and maybe the world has ever seen

Yes, great point. Shouldn't have sacked sexton or Atkinson based on that logic. Who knows what could have happened!!!!
 
There's the issue. Anyone backing him now isn't being objective. 400m of shite signings and football going nowhere.

Jose and Ole both got backed even when they looked fecking hopeless. It's just a weird thing on here. I'm glad you can see how fecking irritating the excuses are from the other side of the coin, though.

From my perspective, there's very few actually staunchly backing him. Most are saying that they want to see actual footballing structures in place before we make a change.
 
I know you’ve been a big Ten Hag defender so it says a lot you’re starting to question him, but I would argue that he isn’t the man for a top side with serious ambitions. He seems incapable of adapting his philosophies in order to become a better man manager. I don’t think any top player will tolerate his nonsense, especially considering most of the players he would manage are vastly more successful than he ever has been.

Imagine you’ve won a WC and multiple CL’s and then some bloke comes in and tells you that you can’t play in your favoured position because you’re not left footed so now you’re dropped for some Dutch league reject or a 36 year old part timer? fecking insane.
Imagine you’ve won a WC and multiple CL’s and play like shit and your manager drops you. You start trying harder or you whine?
 
The biggest cult of Ten Hag is the cult of people insisting there is one. Certainly doesn’t exist on here. It’s really bizarre. He’s the least blindly backed manager on here since Fergie retired.
 
I know, but some have backed him because something something Fergie, and now those people are starting to turn.

The people backing him are few and far between and nowhere near as rabid and divisive as the Jose and Ole cults. I'm not seeing many actually saying he's the right man. Most want bigger changes than just sacking ETH and hoping for the best.
 
The biggest cult of Ten Hag is the cult of people insisting there is one. Certainly doesn’t exist on here. It’s really bizarre. He’s the least blindly backed manager on here since Fergie retired.

So much this. He's by far the least divisive manager we've had.
 
Imagine you’ve won a WC and multiple CL’s and play like shit and your manager drops you. You start trying harder or you whine?
You have to ask what the manager is asking these players to do that’s making them look so shit? How can 25 players collectively be shit at the same time? That’s some special kind of coordination, considering most of the time it’s impossible to get 4 people to agree on a single point. Maybe they’re trying as hard as they can? Maybe the instructions are just shit?
 
They shouldn't even be appearing in the same sentence. Ancelotti could be rightly thrown as a candidate into the GOAT manager debate without getting embarrassed. It's like comparing Di Stefano to Jonjo Shelvey.

And yet some poster here throws a bag on Ancelotti’s head and claims he’s not a very good coach.

It ain’t gonna happen so but if somehow the opportunity were to arise in January I’d sack ten Hag for Ancelotti in a heartbeat. He knows how to build a squad and has the gonads of titanium to tell crybabies like Sancho and Rashford to train with the youth team if they’re unwilling work for the first team like men.
 
There are no excuses, and there isn't a single performance.
My argument for keeping him is based on the simple situation of getting rid of the revolving door on the managers office.

We had to do this when we took on a young manager from Aberdeen with a very similar CV, he was given five years, and turned out to be the greatest manager England and maybe the world has ever seen

ETH and SAF's CVs before joining us are not even remotely close.

The only thing of great note that ETH did before joining was get Ajax to a CL semi-final which in itself is not that special.

SAF breaking the old firms grip on Scottish football and winning a European trophy with Aberdeen was absolutely remarkable.

My issue with ETH is quite straightforward and can be explained if you watch Spurs right now. I'm the midst of a injury crisis going away to the best team in the land and yet they still play with astonishing bravery, pressing high, playing out and through midfield and holding a high line.

Things that I haven't seen us do under ETH consistently if ever in some cases.

Spurs are playing exactly how we should be playing come hell or high water with no excuses.

They may end up loosing but there approach and attitude to the game is spot on.

I don't think ETH has the required bravery he is to pragmatic like alot of Dutch coaches to unwilling to take risks.
 
The people backing him are few and far between and nowhere near as rabid and divisive as the Jose and Ole cults. I'm not seeing many actually saying he's the right man. Most want bigger changes than just sacking ETH and hoping for the best.
I think this one is more clear cut than the others. We’ve been shite for ages, we’re losing games for fun, and we’re never in control of a game at any point. At least with the others there was more subjectivity, or at least it felt that way.
 
The people backing him are few and far between and nowhere near as rabid and divisive as the Jose and Ole cults. I'm not seeing many actually saying he's the right man. Most want bigger changes than just sacking ETH and hoping for the best.
I think last season and this season are completely different. Most people felt he was the one and praised his league cup win and 3rdplaced finish as if he'd done the impossible.
 
I think this one is more clear cut than the others. We’ve been shite for ages, we’re losing games for fun, and we’re never in control of a game at any point. At least with the others there was more subjectivity, or at least it felt that way.

It's only more clear than the others because you liked the others better. There's no other difference. Ole really shouldn't have gotten as long as he did and neither should Jose. It's the same patterns all over again; doing just enough to survive and making bizarre team selections. They were all clear cut, it just appeared differently due to peoples personal preferences.
 
I think last season and this season are completely different. Most people felt he was the one and praised his league cup win and 3rdplaced finish as if he'd done the impossible.

You mean like people praised second place and being one penalty kick away from winning the EL as some miracle season. As I said, I'm just glad you're getting to experience the other side of the coin.

Last season was a decent first season. This season has been shite. That's it.
 
It's only more clear than the others because you liked the others better. There's no other difference. Ole really shouldn't have gotten as long as he did and neither should Jose. It's the same patterns all over again; doing just enough to survive and making bizarre team selections. They were all clear cut, it just appeared differently due to peoples personal preferences.
Yeah maybe, but for me, this one has been coming since the middle of last season when he started making weird decisions. Maybe I’m just over the notion of marrying every manager we get though and am happy to boot anyone after 18 months if it’s clear they’re failing.
 
This is far less clear cut than Ole. You have the club right now in a total mess, injuries and a manager who at least has some sort of pedigree. Bless Ole, but comparing the two is laughable. Ole was out of his depth from the second he walked in the door but did very well given his ability. It was obvious, and painfully so that we needed to upgrade.

Ten Hag is done, unless something miraculous happens. But god I’m sad how we’re going to see so many players who aren’t even close to the level required play for yet another manager.
 
Yeah maybe, but for me, this one has been coming since the middle of last season when he started making weird decisions. Maybe I’m just over the notion of marrying every manager we get though and am happy to boot anyone after 18 months if it’s clear they’re failing.

Same can be said for Jose and Ole's second place finishes. Most felt we were gonna tank the following season as our league position flattered our performances. Most thought our performances dropped last season due to a crazy fixture list, but it was obviously a bigger issue.

As for your second point: I'm glad you're seeing things from this perspective. I never understood the manager cults considering all our post-Fergie managers clearly haven't been up to the task.
 
You mean like people praised second place and being one penalty kick away from winning the EL as some miracle season. As I said, I'm just glad you're getting to experience the other side of the coin.

Last season was a decent first season. This season has been shite. That's it.
So Ole was one penalty kick away from a decent second season. Glad we got that sorted.

If we take away the hyperbole, he overachieved last season because Chelsea and Liverpool were crap. Now we are underacheiving because of injuries and his signings not taking off.
 
So Ole was one penalty kick away from a decent second season. Glad we got that sorted.

If we take away the hyperbole, he overachieved last season because Chelsea and Liverpool were crap. Now we are underacheiving because of injuries and his signings not taking off.

The whole one penalty kick away from winning anything is just such a small-time way to look at things. I actually think it was a decent season, and said so at the time. I could see through it though and fully expected us to fall away the following season.

Ole also overachieved because other top teams fell off. What's your point here?
 
The whole one penalty kick away from winning anything is just such a small-time way to look at things. I actually think it was a decent season, and said so at the time. I could see through it though and fully expected us to fall away the following season.

Ole also overachieved because other top teams fell off. What's your point here?
It only gets brought up because some people kept using his lack of trophies as a stick to beat him with. And it amused me last season when ETH got praised to the heavens for one of the easiest cup runs ever.
 
It only gets brought up because some people kept using his lack of trophies as a stick to beat him with. And it amused me last season when ETH got praised to the heavens for one of the easiest cup runs ever.

I love that it winds you up so much, because you and others rammed excuses down peoples throats for 3 years, and they were terrible excuses. Remember cultural reset? :lol:

You do also have to be objective here and realise that Ole had 3 seasons to win something, whereas ETH got more points in his first season than Ole ever managed and actually won something. Luckily, unlike you with Ole, most people are being objective and calling this season out for what it is. Hope you're liking the other side of the coin and hope you're loving the excuses.
 
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You have to ask what the manager is asking these players to do that’s making them look so shit? How can 25 players collectively be shit at the same time? That’s some special kind of coordination, considering most of the time it’s impossible to get 4 people to agree on a single point. Maybe they’re trying as hard as they can? Maybe the instructions are just shit?
I‘m referring to individual performances. If Varane can‘t pass a ball over six yards that‘s on Varane.
 
Criticism is fine, wanting him out is fine. I'm just not that interested in it while Martial is still here, and yes I know he's picking Martial but that's because the kid they brought in to replace him can't play a full 90 apparently.

Recruitment is awful at this club, arguing the Managers tactics and man management is a waste of time.
 
Question for those who still support EtH...

Which of our performances under his management convince you that he is a top coach, with a clear plan and vision that he is able to implement?

Very few really. There have been moments in games and passages of play but never anything lasting 90 minutes. But we are as a club sick to the core with Glazer cancer. What do you expect?

My take is that he has struggled to step up from the farmer's league he came from to manage at this level. But he will get there and we will get the benefits of that. But the club being as dysfunctional as it is, that's a Glazer phenomenon. Would be the same if Pep or Klopp were managing here, not that they would ever want to.

ETH is the best we will get for now and his football ideas are the right ones. We should stick him out until at least the end of the season. Letting the players think they can get rid of him just makes the problem worse.
 
With all their injuries and suspensions, how are Spurs taking it to City away from home, and we collapsed after 10 minutes every time we play a good side?
 
Earlier in the season when we had the worst injury issues he was able to hide behind that as a reason for the poor play but we now see a few teams with their own issues playing better football than we have for coming up a year.
 
Very few really. There have been moments in games and passages of play but never anything lasting 90 minutes. But we are as a club sick to the core with Glazer cancer. What do you expect?

My take is that he has struggled to step up from the farmer's league he came from to manage at this level. But he will get there and we will get the benefits of that. But the club being as dysfunctional as it is, that's a Glazer phenomenon. Would be the same if Pep or Klopp were managing here, not that they would ever want to.

ETH is the best we will get for now and his football ideas are the right ones. We should stick him out until at least the end of the season. Letting the players think they can get rid of him just makes the problem worse.
Please elaborate.
 
I love that it winds you up so much, because you and others rammed excuses down peoples throats for 3 years with terrible excuses. Remember cultural reset? :lol:

You do also have to be objective here and realise that Ole had 3 seasons to win something, whereas ETH got more points in his first season than Ole ever managed and actually won something. Luckily, unlike you with Ole, most people are being objective and calling this season out for what it is. Hope you're liking the other side of the coin and hope you're loving the excuses.
Now you're starting to sound like an ETH cultist, well done. Am I really that influential on you?
 
Now you're starting to sound like an ETH cultist, well done. Am I really that influential on you?

It's ok mate, I forgive you for being absolutely rabid for 3 years to back your countryman. FYI, I've voted to sack ETH. Objectivity really is a good trait. You should try it, chief.
 
It's ok mate, I forgive you for being absolutely rabid for 3 years to back your countryman. FYI, I've voted to sack ETH. Objectivity really is a good trait. You should try it, chief.
You inadvertently just brought up all of the ETH cult excuses in your post. But the ETH cult doesn't exist, only Jose/Ole ;)
 
You inadvertently just brought up all of the ETH cult excuses in your post. But the ETH cult doesn't exist, only Jose/Ole ;)

I stated a fact :confused:

As I said, I want ETH out. Just own your behaviour for 3 years for your fellow countryman.
 
This is far less clear cut than Ole. You have the club right now in a total mess, injuries and a manager who at least has some sort of pedigree. Bless Ole, but comparing the two is laughable. Ole was out of his depth from the second he walked in the door but did very well given his ability. It was obvious, and painfully so that we needed to upgrade.

Ten Hag is done, unless something miraculous happens. But god I’m sad how we’re going to see so many players who aren’t even close to the level required play for yet another manager.

Very much my feeling as well.
The vast bulk of the squad are not good enough. That is clear.
And you are quite right about Ole. He got some reasonable results, primarily because he was so different to José. But ultimately, he was found badly wanting.

Ten Hag does have a certain pedigree, that is true. But he should be the first to admit that he has made some awful mistakes. Recruitment being a big issue. And his tactics have not been good enough. For example, Newcastle are a very hard working team under Eddie Howe. So how could he expect to compete playing with Rashford and Martial. And our full backs were left exposed because he must have known that Radford and Garnacho simply don't track back.

So if he loses his job, a lot is down to him.
But by far and away, the biggest problem is that our club is in an unforgivable shambles.
 
The most worried part about him that after 16 months in charge and 400 mil spent, we play dire football, without clear plan and without established first 11.
And we pay the price for it in every bigger game.
 
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