So going off your first paragraph, Klopp should have been sacked last year? I highly doubt finishing 5th was their objective. ETH ended our trophy doubt on his first season where as it took klopp and guardiola more than 1 year to win anything. I agree that we should be getting out of our CL group. Top 4 is nowhere near done yet… verdict is still out on that… if we finish 3rd in the CL group then the new objective will be to win the Europa league or use it as a back up if we know we won’t finish top 4.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Klopp failed in achieving the objectives last year. He was not fired because of his long track record at Liverpool.
I suppose someone like Klopp has credit in the bank since he has won the UCL and the league in recent times. You also have to add the variables, Liverpool don't invest as much as we do in their team. For comparison, the net spend of ETH is already more than Klopps entire time at Anfield. If you are given the most amount of money to spend on players and manage Manchester United it's only natural that your minimum expectation will be to get out of the ucl group stages and finish top 4, he hasn't said anything controversial.
If Klopp or Pep become the manager of United and are given the same amount of money to spend as ETH has, the expectations for them would be the same...
They finished 6th the season before he came. The only one making things up is you because you want to delete the 18 months before he came to focus on literally the only good season they had in this 6 years period to support your false agenda.
As usual.
And he got the job while the team was 10th with no money or transfer window to shape it as he wanted, he had to do with what he had till the end of the season, yet you're using it against him. Anything to support your agendas.
As I said, the only thing you're good at is goalpost shifting the discussion into personal attacks because you have no clue or evidence to support your opinion, so that's the best you could do. I'm not getting dragged into this crap, mind you.
No one is asking Ten Hag to win the league, for God's sake. We're only asking him to play some watchable football. Is that so hard to achieve ? That's how low our targets are and we can't even achieve it even though it's the bare minimum at any big club.
Ok, don't win trophies. Can you at least make me enjoy watching the team ?
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You can't make a sober analysis of Ten Hag and United and then treat the league cup like a huge deal. It just isn't one. It only has emotional value, especially by appealing to a 'drought' that lasted a mere 5 years.
Nightmare post. He joined mid season. The season prior Liverpool finished 2nd, two points off city.
Klopp beat City away immediately and then whooped them at home too with players like Lucas, Lovren, Moreno. Then knocked out Dortmund and us out of Europa. It was clear that on their day, Liverpool under Klopp could destroy the best teams around, with zero new signings by the way. No such signs under ETH. Dude's mediocre at this level. That's it.
This is freaking hilarious. You will never admit you're wrong even when you clearly are.
Klopp joined in 2015/2016 season in October when they were 10th.
In 2014/2015, the season prior, Liverpool finished 6th under Rodgers. That was LVG's first season here.
The season they finished 2nd was 2013/2014 during Moyes time at United. They sold Suarez after this season and replaced with ton of crap players which resulted in the team finishing 6th the next year. The next one Rodgers was sacked and Klopp was hired.
Come on, let's hear your next ridiculous and false claim.
In Klopp's second season at Liverpool, they were inconsistent. They finished 4th.
Inconsistent means that they won games by 4-0, 4-1, 5-1, 6-1, could beat City, United, Arsenal, Spurs... but they could also lose random games, fail to score, concede 3, 4 goals, etc.
This was true in his first season, too. They won away at Villa 0-6, at Norwich 4-5, beat City 3-0 and 1-4... but they would lose random games, fail to score, etc. even more often.
The problem with United right now is that they are consistently bad. United have not won a single league or CL game by more than 1 goal. They concede in almost every match. They have lost every game against a good opponent.
Inconsistent means that they won games by 4-0, 4-1, 5-1, 6-1, could beat City, United, Arsenal, Spurs... but they could also lose random games, fail to score, concede 3, 4 goals, etc.
This was true in his first season, too. They won away at Villa 0-6, at Norwich 4-5, beat City 3-0 and 1-4... but they would lose random games, fail to score, etc. even more often.
The problem with United right now is that they are consistently bad. United have not won a single league or CL game by more than 1 goal. They concede in almost every match. They have lost every game against a good opponent.
Agree with that.
So who's going to come in and do better?
I've said here and elsewhere the football has been shit, but there are mitigating circumstances. CL football next season is already seen as an impossible task by some (6 pts off top 4, with 27 games left). Some of the games have been affected by some seriously terrible amd questionable officiating, Spurs, Arsenal, Palace & City. You could say Wolves should have had pen. Wolves may have got a pen, but those are rarely given.
No point in sacking him and bringing in someone else, unless there's proper plans being put in place to rebuild the squad and get rid of all the wasters. The simple fact that shitebags like Dalot get new 4+1 deals after a few decent games would suggest that is not the case.
Il admit I got that one wrong. It's almost 10 years ago.
This is freaking hilarious. You will never admit you're wrong even when you clearly are.
Klopp joined in 2015/2016 season in October when they were 10th.
In 2014/2015, the season prior, Liverpool finished 6th under Rodgers. That was LVG's first season here.
The season they finished 2nd was 2013/2014 during Moyes time at United. They sold Suarez after this season and replaced with ton of crap players which resulted in the team finishing 6th the next year. The next one Rodgers was sacked and Klopp was hired.
Come on, let's hear your next ridiculous and false claim.
I'll take it, better that the shite attack and shite defence we got now.
How's our goal score again?
He made it to the Europe League Final in his first season and then to a Champions League final in his third season. Additiionally, there was the feeling that the club was improving. After losing the CL final to Real, they signed Alisson and Van Dijk.
Saying that Klopp needed time to win titles is correct, but there was a feeling of progress under Klopp that simply does not exist with Ten Hag.
Very much agree.
Exactly. He's so bad that I'd probably take back Ole. Before stupidly signing Ronaldo, he was at least trouncing bottom clubs. None of these herculean 1-0 wins with a 80th min Varane or Maguire header.
This should never factor in to the former decision. Same with getting rid of players. The two decisions are separate from each other.
These Klopp comparisons are very disingenuous, seriously. We're just going to ignore that he made them play good football with inconsistent results almost immediately and soon reached european cup finals. And somehow us winning the Mickey Mouse cup as we used to call it is a big achievement. If we were to play good football and showing any sings of progress almost nobody would want Ten Hag out.
It’s like people forget Klopp had Adam Llalana and Emre Can and was still terrorizing teams with lightning fast football. It was evident as soon as he arrived the difference in style
Despite the poor defending, it was obvious to see that Klopp was doing something great at Liverpool. The football at times was lightning. We laughed at his tactics defensively but we all knew deep down he was going to get it right.
Standard response from anyone who suggests he should be sacked. Sack him, but you don't need to know who's coming in, just get rid of him so you get your wish and are happy.
But what you're suggesting seems to be how Utd is run, sure just get someone else in and don't worry about getting rid of players give them lot new deals and bring in a few more.
In reality if you're going to sack him, then you need to have an idea of who can replace him. Whether it's short term or long term, you'd have to have analysed the group and have an idea of who can come in and get them playing in a way that suits their abilities. Otherwise you end up with another Ralf, and end up staying in this never ending spiral of shite with a new manager every 12-18 months. But all the while most of the same shite squad ends up staying.
Getting rid of players and bringing in players aren't really decisions that are separate from each other either in reality. You have a limited number you can register in a squad and often times you have to sell players to raise money to buy new players. If you get rid of a player most of the time you need to have a replacement lined up.
There is. People operate under the assumption that it is not possible to do better than Ten Hag with these same wasters. Ten Hag unfortunately isn't of the caliber nor does he have the CV to back said notion. Again, United has issues, which aren't mutually exclusive with the manager being one. Mitigating factors exist for all managers at any point - Ten Hag isn't unique in that regard.
Positioning people as unreasonably impatient, like you did in the post where you erroneously asserted Klopp hasn't won anything in 3 years, is disingenuous, if not outright dishonest. Most people aren't demanding United win the league or CL now - people want to see some decent football and semblance of consistent progress/upward trajectory and an end to humiliating defeats. Meanwhile Ten Hag is busy trying to recreate Mctominay experiment that bailed him out against Brentford on a 90 minute scale - a player he reportedly deemed surplus to requirements in the summer.
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Ok, sack him after tomorrows game.
Who do you bring in?
Because I have a fair idea of who I'd be bringing in.
In reality if I was going to sack him, then I'd be paid good money to properly research a replacement. As a fan though I can clearly see he's out of his league.
Not even an idea?
If course I do, I'd speak to Hansi Flick and Julen Lopetegui to see if they had a plan to steady the ship for the rest of the season and then I'd do further research/planning for the next season.
But I'm a fan, not a director with funds and people under me.
Personally I'd go for Marcello Gallardo.
Mainly because there's a good chunk of South American players in key positions in the squad, Martinez, Casemiro, Garnacho, Antony. I think they might respond better to him. Plus I think he'd light a fire under Bruno and Antony.
I've seen reports that the club might look to Amorim - which is not a bad shout.
Personally, I like Marco Rose and Emery - shame about the timing with Nagelsmann - but at this point, I'm of the belief that even Curbishley would make us more compact than this guy. Last one is tongue-in-cheek, of course.
Problem is, and we've seen with it a lot of clubs and not just united, sometimes it doesn't matter how you reached a certain point, because once the players lose confidence and you're unable to motivate them, it's over. That's why a lot of great managers lose their jobs. Only few managers managed to have enough invincibility about them to weather these storms. I do think in hindsight with better recruitment ETH might have had a much better spell here, but that doesn't mean that if we fix that it's gonna work, because players rarely bounce once they reach this low. What do you think is more likely at this point, the players getting together and reacting to the current setback? or the players losing more confidence and collapsing?
But this was in a different league. It was a league where Leicester won the league. Then Chelsea with Victor Moses, Gary Cahill and David Luiz. Even at Man City there was players like Kolarov, Clichy, Nolito and Navas. Rodgers where considered a good manager.
Today you have managers like de Zerbi at Brighton and Emery at Villa. PL has become way more competitive.
Okay pal, then would you rather me reference Ange coming and and transforming Spurs in about 2 months?
And having a team adopt a certain style and how they play has nothing to do with the competition. I wasn’t referencing the results that Klopp got, just that he had what we’re considered “rubbish” players look completely different under him.
I don't disagree. Ultimately, it's not practical for a club to very quickly turn around the majority of a squad, and it's far more reasonable to replace the manager and hope the new one get a tune out of the existing squad.
The general point is that, long term, it doesn't really matter whether we sack Ten Hag or not, because, unless we actually change the structure, we're going to end up back in this situation within a year or two.
It's obviously a matter of subjective opinion, but I do think there's still a chance he can turn it around.
Steve Bruce could make it look more compact for a pound of bacon.
Good football is good football, regardless of how strong you think the league was. We'd be in awe of any manager who had us playing like Liverpool after Klopp took over. It was clear their only issue was a leaky defence, and as soon as he signed players to stop leaking goals they became one of the best teams in the world, because the foundation was already there and they had a great team, they just had some technically poor players.
We're a million miles away from that. There's not a single area of our team that functions at a high level. I have no idea what Ten Hag is trying to do with it
If we're all of the opinion that the biggest issue at United at the Glazers then what's the point in sacking Ten Hag now?
It’s not my job to have a list of managers lined up immediately. It’s the clubs. But either way you completely missed my point just to rage on about how there isn’t anyone that’s an obvious choice to replace him right now.
Deciding whether to sack a manager/sell a player isn’t a two step decision that always requires a replacement for it to be plausible. You don’t hold on to Antony or Scott McTominay just because Bukayo Saka or Camavinga aren’t immediately available to bring in. Likewise, you don’t avoid sacking Ten Hag just because Xabi Alonso or Zidane don’t want the job. And the way you are framing it implies that it’s impossible apparently to do proper due diligence and find someone that can do a better job unless it’s a clear and obvious name that every random Caf poster could come up with. This isn’t us talking about some club legend manager that’s fallen off a bit in his later years like Wenger. It’s a guy that’s (again) gone 18 months failing to string together a decent month of enjoyable football yet apparently is still the very best man for the job as if the standards of what he’s accomplished are through the ceiling already.
You seem to think that I’m some fanatic that wants to sack managers constantly when I was one of his biggest supporters last season and even before we hired him. But I simply don’t see the point in continuing with just blind hope in a guy just to delay the inevitable. Just wastes time and resources for everyone.
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