Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Scandi Red]

Better than the shit served under Ten Hag

Multiple things can be true. Klopp is clearly a better manager with a better resume than Ten Hag, but it took him a while to make his team play consistently good. 8th, 4th, 4th, no trophy, and a shite defence. This was the reality before the arrival of Alisson and Van Dijk.

He was clearly building towards something and sticking with him was the right choice, but it also took a relatively long time to build his team and polish the general play.

 

[el3mel]

Multiple things can be true. Klopp is clearly a better manager with a better resume than Ten Hag, but it took him a while to make his team play consistently good. 8th, 4th, 4th, no trophy, and a shite defence. This was the reality before the arrival of Alisson and Van Dijk.

He was clearly building towards something and sticking with him was the right choice, but it took also took a relatively long time to build his team and polish the general play.

I like how you seem to keep on using this 8th against him when he got the job midway in the season with no transfer market or money to spend and they were 10th in the table yet reached 2 finals this year (beating United, BVB and Villareal in the run to EL final), yet you're using that 8th spot against him. In his first full season after he got money to spend he got top 4 and in his 2nd full season he reached a CL final while cementing his top 4 spot, then won CL in his 3rd year.

Ten Hag in his 2nd full season has his team close to crashing out from CL group and with the team miles away from top 4.

That's without putting in context under Klopp, Liverpool early had a clear style and identity and it was obvious, as we said, that they needed few key players in certain positions and the team will start winning trophies, unlike Ten Hag's United whom people want the entire squad and the full football structure to be changed so that we can actually play some good football with clear style. I like how you ignored this point.

Klopp was building for something. Ten Hag isn't building shit.

 

[MadMike]

I don’t want him gone yet, mainly because there isn’t a clear solid replacement. But I would also like to see ETH with more technical players, which is what he had at Ajax. Right now half of our squad wouldnt be able to keep up with the style ETH played at Ajax

He signed half the squad. And that half is the bad half.

 

[Oranges038]

He signed half the squad. And that half is the bad half.

He hasn't, he's barely signed half a starting 11.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Klopp is clearly a better manager with a better resume than Ten Hag, but it took him a while to make his team play consistently good. 8th, 4th, 4th, no trophy, and a shite defence. This was the reality before the arrival of Alisson and Van Dijk.

He was clearly building towards something and sticking with him was the right choice, but it also took a relatively long time to build his team and polish the general play.

I think you're making it sound a little worse than it actually was. Liverpool reached a CL final in the bolded season, that is already a massive achievement. And it was no fluke, as they played another final the next season.

 

[Scandi Red]

I like how you seem to keep on using this 8th against him when he got the job midway in the season

He was hired in early October, not January.

But even if we completely disregard his first season (which we shouldn't, as it gave Klopp nearly a full year to settle and assess the squad rather than a short summer), I still don't think that Liverpool were anything special before the autumn of 2018.

 

[MadMike]

He hasn't, he's barely signed half a starting 11.

Yes he has. If the players he signed cannot make it into his starting XI, that's doubly his fault.

But so far he has signed

Onana
Malacia
Martinez
Evans
Casemiro
Eriksen
Amrabat
Mount
Antony
Hojlund

That is basically just a RB short of a full XI.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

He signed half the squad. And that half is the bad half.

Did he? Hojlund, Antony, Mount, Onana, Martinez fits his style at Ajax. Casemiro honestly seemed like a club signing given how he’s a completely different profile to De Jong and we were in panic mode when we signed him. The rest of the signings are loans

 

[Scandi Red]

Liverpool reached a CL final in the bolded season, that is already a massive achievement.

So did Inter, Spurs and two broken Chelsea teams. The latter actually won both times.

I'm not contesting that Klopp is arguably the greatest manager of the last 10 years or so, but his team was far from polished or solid before 2018.

 

[VP89]

Massive outlier. They finished 6th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, and 6th the five seasons before Klopp.

Immaterial to my point. The team was not dysfunctional prior to him coming.

 

[MadMike]

Did he? Hojlund, Antony, Mount, Onana, Martinez fits his style at Ajax. Casemiro honestly seemed like a club signing given how he’s a completely different profile to De Jong and we were in panic mode when we signed him. The rest of the signings are loans

Amrabat is only a loanee because we couldn't afford to buy him, he wanted to sign him and he is here with a view to being signed. He's the DLP he wanted after De Jong. The latter never wanted to come.

Poor ETH has only managed to sign 6 players for his starting XI (what about Malacia btw) he can't be blamed if the team is regressing in style of football and results and his most expensive signings (Antony and Mount) look like flops. Give him more players and more money please. He will for sure make it right next time.

 

[VP89]

Oh look, the blind supporter who, even though believes all I'm saying is crap, keep on replying on me regardless.

Then they sold Suarez next year and replaced him with ton of crap players and finished 6th, next one they were hanging around 10th by October when Rodgers were sacked. The 4 seasons before that 2nd spot they finished 6th, 7th, 8th and 7th.

So, in short, this period Liverpool's league spots were, respectively, 6th, 7th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, 6th and were hanging around 10th when Klopp got the job.

Their 2nd spot finish under Rodgers was thanks to Suarez unbelievable form this year not because the board were planning any shit, as they fecked the entire team after he was sold.

Suarez was not the sole pioneer in that team. Special mentions to Coutinho, Sterling and Sturridge too.

Point being, the squad (they were playing well from the back to midfield and of course feeding their front 3) wasn't disfunctional the year before he came. So don't make things up.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Amrabat is only a loanee because we couldn't afford to buy him, he wanted to sign him and he is here with a view to being signed. He's the DLP he wanted after De Jong. The latter never wanted to come.

Poor ETH has only managed to sign 6 players for his starting XI (what about Malacia btw) he can't be blamed if the team is regressing in style of football and results and his most expensive signings (Antony and Mount) look like flops. Give him more players and more money please. He will for sure make it right next time.

I didn’t bring up Amrabat and Malacia because they were bought to be squad players?

 

[Oranges038]

Yes he has. If the players he signed cannot make it into his starting XI, that's doubly his fault.

But so far he has signed

Onana
Malacia
Martinez
Evans
Casemiro
Eriksen
Amrabat
Mount
Antony
Hojlund

That is basically just a RB short of a full XI.

Not even if they were signed solely as backup options?

If you take out these 4 or even replace Eriksen with Mount.

1 backup 35 year old freebie CB
1 Cheap backup left back
1 loaned midfielder
1 backup midfielder signed for 50m.

It's hardly just 1 player off being a serious starting xi.

 

[Oranges038]

So great attacking football and shite defence? Sounds like shaky kamikaze football to me. Entertaining though, no doubt!

Don't forget at times he had that world-renowned striker Stephen Caulker up front.

 

[Maniron]

I would support him in the January transfer window and give him at least until the end of the season. If we are progressing then stick with him, we have seen that swapping out managers in itself isn't the answer. I would hope and expect that behind the scenes discussions are taking place about a possible replacement but I suspect that based on previous experience, the Board are in no rush to go there either.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I would support him in the January transfer window and give him at least until the end of the season. If we are progressing then stick with him, we have seen that swapping out managers in itself isn't the answer. I would hope and expect that behind the scenes discussions are taking place about a possible replacement but I suspect that based on previous experience, the Board are in no rush to go there either.

January signings would be great, but he should have no say in any of them. He's used up all his transfer goodwill.

 

[crossy1686]

I would support him in the January transfer window and give him at least until the end of the season. If we are progressing then stick with him, we have seen that swapping out managers in itself isn't the answer. I would hope and expect that behind the scenes discussions are taking place about a possible replacement but I suspect that based on previous experience, the Board are in no rush to go there either.

Some of you would let Stevie Wonder drive you to work.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Some of you would let Stevie Wonder drive you to work.

 

[ArmaDino]

Finally, I'm not backing shit. I support Man United, not Ten Hag. Learn the difference between both. Unlike you and other manager supporters, I actually care about the club's standards and don't shit over them just to defend the manager.

Oh really? You're the one banging on about patterns of play and progress, and yet you turn a blind eye to the fact that what you're demanding from Ten Hag, can't be delivered by Conte.

The reason I bring it up is because you are a hypocrite who pretends that he cares about United and high standards, only to turn a blind eye when your favorite is involved. So let me ask you this: where were your standards when you wanted Conte? Where were your demands about attacking football? Patterns of play? Or the fact that Conte just like Ten Hag demands full control over his target or he turns into Mourinho? Or the fact that he had an abysmal European record?

The reason I'm calling you out is because you are a hypocrite plain and simple. You are literally demanding from ETH all the things that could have never been delivered by Conte. You are bitter that your boy got shafted in favor of ETH and you've had it in for him ever since.

You're like Amadeus of the anti-Ten Hag brigade. Any good thing gets swept under the bus only for negativity to be highlighted. There are no extenuating circumstance like the fact that our manager lost his entire back 4 for most of this season, or the fact that his prommissed RW in Greenwood was supposed to be integrated, only for the board to succumb to mob pressure and send him to Spain where he is going decent while our 2 RWs are absent, or the fact that the state of officiating has been as anti-United as I have ever seen in my life. Listening to you you'd think we are in a relegation battle.

I'm old enough to remember how we finished trophyless in 2009-2010 when we lost Rooney to his calf injury, or how we missed out on the title when our entire back4 went out injured. Or how we were knocked out of our CL ties in 2010 and 2013 after officiating mistakes had us go down to 10 men and not being able to hold down a lead. At the time I remember that all the fans were thinking that these were unprecedented circumstances, but ETH is fraud because when he is facing the same issues that were challenging even for SAF.

And apparently me acknowledging this is lowering the standards. If you want to talk about standards go talk about the Glazers and how they've allowed a banker to run our club into the ground with no proper footballing structure and us being turned into the laughing stock of the footballing world. At the same time overseeing a rise in valuation of player commerciality at the expense of footballing ability and team work. But that doesn't fit into the equation as well, because aparently we were this well run club until ETH ran us into the ground.

 

[Speako]

Some of you would let Stevie Wonder drive you to work.

End result would mirror our season.

 

[ArmaDino]

Klopp has won the league and the CL. He's one of the best managers in the world. I really wanted ETH to succeed, but he made a lot of mistakes which got us where we are now.

Klopp hasn't won a trophy in 3 years now. He hasn't won the league up until his 4th season in charge.

ETH literally finished above Klopp last year, won us our first trophy since 2017, was on the verge of ending City's treble if not for a typical DDG performance as well, and yet he is failing here because we've had a very rough start.

It's funny how when Klopp loses VVD and he finishes 4th, he gets excused. But when ETH loses Martinez and the entire back 4, our own fans give him shit.

Not comparing the 2 as Klopp is clearly superior right now. But I remember the days when Klopp was mocked on here saying the PL exposed him and that Top4 was his ceiling and VVD was going to flop(just check the first page in his thread). And now the same people are saying that we could see the patterns of play and we knew he was going to be a success all along.

Football fans can be very fickle. And in moments like these we need to back our manager, because he clearly needs our support.

 

[glasgow 21]

Klopp hasn't won a trophy in 3 years now. He hasn't won the league up until his 4th season in charge.

ETH literally finished above Klopp last year, won us our first trophy since 2017, was on the verge of ending City's treble if not for a typical DDG performance as well, and yet he is failing here because we've had a very rough start.

It's funny how when Klopp loses VVD and he finishes 4th, he gets excused. But when ETH loses Martinez and the entire back 4, our own fans give him shit.

Not comparing the 2 as Klopp is clearly superior right now. But I remember the days when Klopp was mocked on here saying the PL exposed him and that Top4 was his ceiling and VVD was going to flop(just check the first page in his thread). And now the same people are saying that we could see the patterns of play and we knew he was going to be a success all along.

Football fans can be very fickle. And in moments like these we need to back our manager, because he clearly needs our support.

I like your take on this situation but come on, the crowd has been turned by talk nonsense and all the other media posse baying for a manager's sacking.
Common sense can't exist, or can it ?.

 

[DJ_21]

Those bad seasons came after very good ones (league title won, 2 cups + 2nd in league + CL final). He'd bought himself more than enough credit.

Nonetheless, the fact that Klopp hasn't won Liverpool a major title in three seasons is an issue.

But it took klopp 3 years to start winning things originally… ETH hasn’t been here for a full 2 years yet.

 

[ArmaDino]

I like your take on this situation but come on, the crowd has been turned by talk nonsense and all the other media posse baying for a manager's sacking.
Common sense can't exist, or can it ?.

The players seem to back him. Every time I hear a player being interviewed he seems to say only good things about ETH and all of them have said that they are fully behind him, which is in stark contrast to our last 2 managers.

Our match going fans while growing impatient, still back him.

It's the online fans that worry me. They are the ones who hounded Greenwood out(mind you he wasn't blamless, quiet the opposite actually) and they are the ones who suffer from the shinny new toy syndrome. The problem is that the only good manager out there to replace ETH in Ancelotti is unavailable. So all the other options are a step down at this point.

 

[Oranges038]

Klopp hasn't won a trophy in 3 years now. He hasn't won the league up until his 4th season in charge.

ETH literally finished above Klopp last year, won us our first trophy since 2017, was on the verge of ending City's treble if not for a typical DDG performance as well, and yet he is failing here because we've had a very rough start.

It's funny how when Klopp loses VVD and he finishes 4th, he gets excused. But when ETH loses Martinez and the entire back 4, our own fans give him shit.

Not comparing the 2 as Klopp is clearly superior right now. But I remember the days when Klopp was mocked on here saying the PL exposed him and that Top4 was his ceiling and VVD was going to flop(just check the first page in his thread). And now the same people are saying that we could see the patterns of play and we knew he was going to be a success all along.

Football fans can be very fickle. And in moments like these we need to back our manager, because he clearly needs our support.

Well put.

But it took klopp 3 years to start winning things originally… ETH hasn’t been here for a full 2 years yet.

These people will also ignore that Klopp hasn't won anything for 3 years, but during that period he's rebuilt his forward line and midfield for another go at competing for trophies.

But if suggest to anyone that Utd need 3 years to get to that point, you get told to look at Spurs. It should only take 6 months or have people say Newcastle are an established top 4 team....

 

[RVN1991]

Well put.



These people will also ignore that Klopp hasn't won anything for 3 years, but during that period he's rebuilt his forward line and midfield for another go at competing for trophies.

But if suggest to anyone that Utd need 3 years to get to that point, you get told to look at Spurs. It should only take 6 months or have people say Newcastle are an established top 4 team....

He won 2 trophies in 2022 which was a year and a half ago?

 

[tjb]

From what I see the issue comes down to what people define as the managers responsibilities.

United as a club and the fans are heavily pro-manager and anti-player. They've always taken this conservative stance and like the press are quick to talk down on player power.

On the pitch, that means when play is poor, they blame the players for not being able to deliver on the managers ideas. They don't for a second think about the training methods used, how the manager communicated the ideas and if the ideas being communicated are even good or if they work in the premier league.

The job of communicating and getting tasks delivered is on the manager just like at any profession. The manager has the big picture view of the pitch that the players don't have, and when connections, progressions aren't being made. When there's an issue of shape, chance creation and transition play, these are clearly on the manager. Individually I can blame Rashford for a poor shot, Antony for not taking his man on or Dalot for being easily beaten on his flank. I can't blame Casemiro for being isolated in midfield and getting overrun. Or our players for the press being beaten by one pass out wide. The players are the ones busting a lung to recover due to those tactical failures, yet our fans absolve Ten Haag for this and push it as lack of intelligence from our players.

Off the pitch, that means when transfers are poor or there are issues in the dressing room, it's on senior management. Again we've seen the manager consistently discuss getting who he wants, we've always bought players and profiles the manager has discussed. Yet when the transfer fails and it's revealed it wasn't a first choice, everyone turns on the faceless senior management who they have no emotional connection to. All of a sudden, Ten Haag had no hand in wanting Casemiro. But last year when he was considered our best signing, no one was praising senior management.

Again, the manager provides a profile of the player he wants and the club have gone and bought that profile. In fact, there are players who have come from former clubs that you can clearly see the manager selected. The club bends over backwards to ensure that their trying to support these managers. Overpaying on contracts and wages to no avail. Yet the senior management at the club can't talk, as it would be viewed as poor form. But all the managers need to do is blame the club and our fans would lap it up with no evidence.

This imo is why we have leaks. Managers can say what they want in press conference, fail consistently and never be blamed for it until its almost impossible to recover. Players and Senior Management can't do this and have to struggle through insults and questioning of their abilities without them being able to defend themselves. That's the culture that has set us back over the last 10 years.

 

[Oranges038]

He won 2 trophies in 2022 which was a year and a half ago?

They did, christ.

Honestly I don't remember them winning the FA cup or the league cup last year..

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

But it took klopp 3 years to start winning things originally… ETH hasn’t been here for a full 2 years yet.

You ideally don't judge a manager on a pass/fail binary. There are objectives, and you judge them based on whether they achieved them and/or how close they got.

The minimum objective at a top club is to qualify for the Champions League. Klopp achieved that in his first full season. He has achieved that in all but one full season.

The maximum objective is to win titles. If you don't, you are judged by how close you got, how competitive the team is. Klopp got Liverpool to a CL final in his second full season. That is an achievement even if they did not win.

Ten Hag is under fire because, right now, qualifying out of the CL group stages and finishing in the top 4, which are the minimum objectives, are looking unlikely.

 

[Someone]

Klopp hasn't won a trophy in 3 years now. He hasn't won the league up until his 4th season in charge.

ETH literally finished above Klopp last year, won us our first trophy since 2017, was on the verge of ending City's treble if not for a typical DDG performance as well, and yet he is failing here because we've had a very rough start.

It's funny how when Klopp loses VVD and he finishes 4th, he gets excused. But when ETH loses Martinez and the entire back 4, our own fans give him shit.

Not comparing the 2 as Klopp is clearly superior right now. But I remember the days when Klopp was mocked on here saying the PL exposed him and that Top4 was his ceiling and VVD was going to flop(just check the first page in his thread). And now the same people are saying that we could see the patterns of play and we knew he was going to be a success all along.

Football fans can be very fickle. And in moments like these we need to back our manager, because he clearly needs our support.

So now just because some world class managers have managed to be successful after 3 years this means that everyone should be getting 3 years regardless?

I don't think anyone expected us to win the league this season, but we expected progress, and an objective look at ETH will tell you that:

1. We have regressed badly in terms of performances this season
2. His recruitment which was mainly based on familiarity has proven to be a bust
3. Most of the players have regressed this season
4. Players don't look motivated and confidence issues are still there

Now I understand that injuries play a big role, but you can't pin all of the above on injuries. He can't get it tactically right, he can't motivate the players, he can't sign the right players, and the solution is to give him more time and money?

I really want him to succeed and I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong, but as far as I'm concerned what we have now is far from good enough.

 

[TsuWave]

These people will also ignore that Klopp hasn't won anything for 3 years

They did, christ.

Honestly I don't remember them winning the FA cup or the league cup last year..

EtH's defence

 

[Alex99]

1. We have regressed badly in terms of performances this season
2. His recruitment which was mainly based on familiarity has proven to be a bust
3. Most of the players have regressed this season
4. Players don't look motivated and confidence issues are still there

You've sort of addressed some of this yourself later in your post, but:

1, 3 and 4 are all connected issues, as I see it, and all have been massively impacted by the ongoing injury crisis.

I criticism of tactics and game management is fair at times, but these are also affected by the players available.

Point 2 I think is irrelevant, because it's something he shouldn't have had responsibility for. That's an indictment on the crap structure at the club and can't be pinned on the manager.

Ultimately, I think he did enough last season to have earned some grace this season. If we complete the season playing shit, leaking goals, etc., then there's obviously only so long you can point to injuries and general bad luck, and it's a bit harder to argue for him to stay.

Regardless of Ten Hag being the man for the job, I just have zero faith that any manager could turn this around in the way the fans want (league titles, etc.) because the club is so terribly run. Until that changes, we'll just be repeating these conversations.

 

[Oranges038]

EtH's defence

Honestly I had totally forgotten they won the league cup and FA cup last year. But for the fact Utd were in both finals last season, I wouldn't remember who won those either.

I don't really care if he gets sacked, I am patient and realise that this isn't all on him. It's been 10 years of this shite, so he gets sacked and the next guy will be in the same boat in 12 months.

This mess isn't all about the manager, there needs to be a proper plan in place behind the manager. Whether that is ETH or someone else, but until that is done and most of this current sqaud is replaced. Expect this same circus to keep rolling round every year.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

Ten Hag clearly chose the players, therefore he gets criticised

So he's poor at selecting players to sign, that's OK since its not his job.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

Yeah it was just a small coincidence that most of the signings were his ex players or happened to play in the league he used to manage. Clearly he had no say in those signings.

OK, so he suggested some players to sign. Why did nobody above him in the football structure say no? It's not the managers job to identify or sign players.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

Do we, as in Manchester United, sign Antony, Mount, Martinez or Malacia without Ten Hag as the manager? Or was it just a happy coincidence that we happened to be shopping in Holland right after we appointed a Dutch manager?

Mount, Martinez, and Malacia I could see any club signing since they're good players. Antony is the only one where I see EtH's direct influence. It shouldn't ever be the managers job to be in control of recruitment.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

Really??! You find that strange? I mean this is the dumbest thing I’ve read today and granted I’ve just started going through the day but I think this will still be top of the list.

So, let me go deeper since I am wasting my 1/3 posts of the day on this.

Why do you find it strange? When oh when have we signed players that were not the ones the manager wanted? Except for Ronaldo (who was still Ole’s decision but I assume the club hierarchy wanting him more than the manager)

Do you not know our managers always have their own transfer targets and build their own teams? Do you not remember Mourinho throwing a fuss when we couldn’t sign Maguire? Do you not remember Ole going after Sancho publicly? Do you not realize we have no DOF to make transfer decisions and instead, we ALWAYS try to get the players identified by the manager?

And lastly, do you not see we’ve been signing all dutch league players that Ten Hag has been familiar with or previously managed?

I mean I really want to know what else do you find strange in life?

It's not that deep really. The core of my point is that it's not the managers job to be in charge of recruitment.

ETH is not a scout or director of football, he's a coach.

Almost every manager we've had has come out and said they didn't get the players they wanted. Ole got James instead of Haaland/Bellingham. Mourinho didn't get Maguire. LVG didn't get the striker he wanted. So that point is invalid.

We actually do have a DOF, his name is John Murtough and he should be the one in charge of recruitment.

Lastly, so far under ETH we've signed permanently Martinez, Malacia, Casemiro, Mount, Eriksen, Antony, Hoijlund and Onana. I'm pretty sure only 3/8 have played for him before.

 

[TsuWave]

Honestly I had totally forgotten they won the league cup and FA cup last year.

Klopp was also a CL finalist in 21/22, btw - and though not a winner that eclipses what most managers ever done/do.

I don't really care if he gets sacked, I am patient and realise that this isn't all on him. It's been 10 years of this shite, so he gets sacked and the next guy will be in the same boat in 12 months.

This mess isn't all about the manager, there needs to be a proper plan in place behind the manager. Whether that is ETH or someone else, but until that is done and most of this current sqaud is replaced. Expect this same circus to keep rolling round every year.

I feel like people are often arguing against a position no one has taken - when arguing in favour of Ten Hag. I’m yet to see a post saying this is all on him or that United doesn’t need structural changes. Those things aren’t mutually exclusive with United also needing to change the manager, though.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Honestly I had totally forgotten they won the league cup and FA cup last year. But for the fact Utd were in both finals last season, I wouldn't remember who won those either.

I don't really care if he gets sacked, I am patient and realise that this isn't all on him. It's been 10 years of this shite, so he gets sacked and the next guy will be in the same boat in 12 months.

This mess isn't all about the manager, there needs to be a proper plan in place behind the manager. Whether that is ETH or someone else, but until that is done and most of this current sqaud is replaced. Expect this same circus to keep rolling round every year.

Look I agree that the structure of the club is by far the main culprit of our suffering over the past decade. As far as that part goes the best we can hope for is that SJR comes in and overhauls the entire thing.

But Ten Hag isn’t getting this grand benefit of the doubt of these other managers mentioned mainly because we simply haven’t played that enjoyable of football for any of the 18 months he’s been here. Even our best runs/ performances last year were largely on the back of some hard grafting and brilliance from the defensive spine + a Rashford purple patch. There’s nothing for me or anyone else to fall back on really as “oh this is how it should look” or some clear philosophy or style of play. Most big games we were dominated to a degree and were forced to sit back and hit someone on the break. And it’s not like we tore minnows apart either. Of course people were fine with it mostly because we didn’t have a competent striker and were missing some pieces, but after a summer of largely securing ETH’s main targets we look even worse in possession and defensive injuries how now made that spine weak.

I’m sorry but you don’t get the benefit of the doubt as a manager through this terrible of a run because you grinded your way to a league cup (that if we were honest was a blessed run of draws and then a gritty final win).