Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Martínez is the most press-resistant centre back in the whole world and a stupidly good ball carrier from deep.

I love how you all talk about him as some sort of liability when we're badly missing him at the moment too.
 
Lisandro Martinez must be the most overrated player this forum has had a love in for. Maybe its due to the way he was treated early on with the media but he's put in his fair share of stinkers and has been roasted more than times than he should have by opposing forwards. He isn't a failure of a signing, but he is nowhere near our best.
Those stinkers happened after the WC. He's just like Rojo when he first started and had a run of form before he got injured.
 
I hope news of INEOS looking to replace Ten Hag is wide of the mark, i think it would be a mistake and worst possible start to their tenure of the club.
A change of ownership though? That's got to be a special case whereby they will want to exert their influence. If everything had been going on as we'd expect a club of our stature to merit, maybe then they'd be a bit more arms-length but he who pays the piper calls the tune...
 
:lol: :lol: What a fecking joke. Neither did Pep or Klopp or Arteta.

Ole didnt get Rice. He didnt get Grealish.

Mourinho didnt get Maguire or Boateng.


De Jong had zero interest in signing, he was a zero percentage possibility transfer. Kane was financially unviable because of Levy. No manager at any Prem club could realistically expect or ask for or demand these two players. And none did.

And you have the fecking audacity to say he was let down because the club didnt produce these two signings for him?

Ridiculous isn't it? If we did get them then some other manager and team didn't...does that mean that manager can have a mare and blame it on the fact that he "didn't get backed"?

Can Pep complain about not being backed because we got Alexis and Maguire ahead of City?

The narratives and excuses that are made around Manchester United and managers are so weird because these things are never said about managers at other clubs. I don't see United fans excusing other clubs shite performances because their manager is dealing with injuries, doesn't have a full squad of their own signings, needs 3 years, didn't get lofty transfer targets, etc.
 
Very generous assessment:

Martinez - good player but still slightly questionable what his true level is. Even last season, we conceded a lot of goals with him in the team. Definitely a positive but not anywhere close yet to “one of the best we’ve had”. 8/10 signing

Can you name one defender we've had since Rio and Vidic who's been better?
 
I truly don't understand the level of support he's garnered from some of you.

Our GD in the past 38 or so games is either 0 or negative. That is appalling and abysmal.

We're last in our CL group. Our GD is negative in the league. We've not beaten a good team all season and have been pasted by any decent team we've played all season.

His management since the cup final has been worse than anything Moyes/Ole served up.
 
I truly don't understand the level of support he's garnered from some of you.

Our GD in the past 38 or so games is either 0 or negative. That is appalling and abysmal.

We're last in our CL group. Our GD is negative in the league. We've not beaten a good team all season and have been pasted by any decent team we've played all season.

His management since the cup final has been worse than anything Moyes/Ole served up.
This is what you need to see
 
There’s absolutely nothing ‘sudden’ about it. This has been coming for a while and will come eventually. This period is literally him being given time to turn it around. He is actually doing worse than Ole and Mourinho were doing at this point when they were sacked. We’ll probably/maybe beat Luton but then after the break I believe it’s Everton/galatasaray/Newcastle away. Those will be the games that finish him off.
Except with Solskjær and Mourinho there was a lot of noise and rumours leading up to them being sacked. I’ve seen nothing reported of him being on the verge of the sack…
 
I truly don't understand the level of support he's garnered from some of you.

I keep saying this. At least with Ole I could understand the attachment. This guy is just a random bald bloke from Holland.

I've seen people on this forum making affirmations like "he's a very good coach, he doesn't deserve this" - like where's the evidence?

or something along the lines of "if we don't get our act together, he'll walk" - like, who do United fans think Ten Hag is? It's so bizarre
 
I dont get that Potter talk.

I guess it comes from the fact INEOS were considering him last year for Nice. That was when the club were signing British players.

That doesnt mean he would come in under INEOS. Ratcliffe is not spending 1.5bil and bringing in a Chelsea reject.

Our rejects have gone on to win big things. That is not really a strike against him.
 
Ole’s problem as far as tactics go is that he never had a real good plan for playing from the back. His build up structure was horrid and often the reason we’d struggle to progress the ball against high pressing teams. Was always the thing that frustrated me the most with those teams.
Under Ole, our most significant issues were not able to crack low block. It’s only against stronger opponents, playing from back and possession became big hurdles. In long term, that issue, I agree, will be amplified when more and more opponents in the league transit to more proactive approach.
 
I truly don't understand the level of support he's garnered from some of you.

Our GD in the past 38 or so games is either 0 or negative. That is appalling and abysmal.

We're last in our CL group. Our GD is negative in the league. We've not beaten a good team all season and have been pasted by any decent team we've played all season.

His management since the cup final has been worse than anything Moyes/Ole served up.
I still support giving ETH some time. There are mitigating factors relating to injuries and the circus he has been dealing with regarding certain players, but you are right to say it hasn’t been anywhere near good enough this season. We have lost more than half our games, apparently, which is shocking. Let’s see if we improve when everything settles down and the injury situation eases, but this can’t continue long term. Results and performances must improve.
 
What would us not accepting mediocrity look like, out of interest? I'm assuming something along the lines of sacking ten Hag right now? Getting in Zidane or Conte? I'm curious.
I think all the talk of 'mediocrity' is premature. We won a trophy last season and qualified for champions league. That is hardly mediocre. Granted, the start this year has been woeful and it is right that questions are being asked of the manager. However, I think he can't have become a bad manager over-night and I think there are some dubious characters in the squad who may be undermining progress. My fear is that ETH does not have the character to take them on and root them out. Time will tell. Meanwhile laughing at scousers who are making hard work of likes of Luton and Toulouse. Just goes to show that recent results for us do not paint a full picture. There is life in this season yet if dressing room comes together.
 
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Except with Solskjær and Mourinho there was a lot of noise and rumours leading up to them being sacked. I’ve seen nothing reported of him being on the verge of the sack…
Perhaps. But I wouldn’t say that makes him safe. I don’t think there’s any chance he keeps his job if we lose to Everton, galatasaray and Newcastle which is far more likely than not.
 
Agree.

I do think a lot needs to change at the club, but ETH has failed to get it right with almost everything this season. The assumption that time will make things better is naive.
Klopp literally finished outside Top4 last season and he barely scraped to 4th when Ole finished 2nd. Should he have gotten the sack then as well?

We had an insane amount of fixtures last seasons. We played the same amount of games Liverpool did the season before. The main difference is that we played them in half the time they did. Plus add the fact that there was a WC in the middle of the season, so naturally our players are going to be gassed. Give him till December and I expect us to look like a better version of ourselves compared to 12 months ago.

Why is he the one let down and not the other way around?

Everyone has vision, the Glazers have a vision for the club. Woodward and Arnold had vision. Every manager past and future has a vision. It's just another corporate buzzword, like legacy, tradition, united way, feel good factor etc.

Ten Hag's vision might be a bit hampered by his terrible eyesight if he thought signing Mount and Amrabat would unlock our potential.
It's only a buzzword for those who haven't achieved anything in life. SAF himself said he had a vision of how he wanted United to look the moment he walked through the door.
That's not a response. I understand, though, that Ten Hag's cult have run out of ideas to defend this crap served weekly so the only thing they can do now is attacking the others personally. Beginning of the end for this cult.
What is it mate, you don't like the fact that your own biased posting past gets brought up as a means of showing that you don't know what you're talking about? Or the fact that you constantly drone about the Ten Hag cult, when you weren't any better about Conte?

The point is simple: there is plenty to defend ETH over. Simply look at my response to the above poster. If you need to know the simple reason why I don't blame ETH for the loss last night, it's simple: until the Rashford's red we looked twice the team against Copenhagen than Bayern or Galatasaray.

But just to prove to you that I'm not in the ETH cult, I will say this about him. I don't like that he doesn't trust the youth more: Hannibal, Pellistri and Garnacho have each shown that they deserve more minutes, and yet more experienced players got them. Also the fact that some players(not even his) don't get dropped for severly underperforming: ie. Rashford and Bruno.

I can go on and on, but the point is I don't see a better manager available right now. Carlo is sadly unavailable and Potter is a poor man's Ten Hag.

If we want to sack him, we need to revamp the footballing structure first: ie. get a competent DoF, a good footballing CEO and an actual scouting department. Till then, the new manager is going to do what all the managers did post SAF. Pick their targets and players and hope it works out.

So up until we sort this thing, nothing is going to change, nothing. So if that is the case, how about you back the manager and support our club for once, instead of being a miserable sod.
 
I truly don't understand the level of support he's garnered from some of you.

Our GD in the past 38 or so games is either 0 or negative. That is appalling and abysmal.

We're last in our CL group. Our GD is negative in the league. We've not beaten a good team all season and have been pasted by any decent team we've played all season.

His management since the cup final has been worse than anything Moyes/Ole served up.
At peak performance we've been decent at best under ETH. I'm thinking the 2-0 win over Spurs last season, that was our best performance under him and even that was nothing special.

At our best under Ole we hammered a couple of teams at least.
 
Maybe. Let's see. I found this performance better than the win we had vs copenhagen (obviously not the result). I also think Copenhagen are better than Galatasaray.

In some ways that's a worry because even IF we beat Galatasary and drew to Bayern, Copenhagen can still do the same and knock us out.

Think we would go through if we both finished on 7 provided we don't get battered v Bayern which is still a possibility
 
Can you name one defender we've had since Rio and Vidic who's been better?
At the moment I don't think I'd put Martinez ahead of Smalling. It's too short a period to claim he's clearly ahead (or behind), and it'll depend on how he plays when he comes back.

Martinez was really only brilliant for about a third of the season. He basically started a bit shaky (although not as bad as some made out), then was absolutely fantastic up until the World Cup. In the reckoning for the best defender in the league for about three months. But after the World Cup he never reached that level again. Good? Sure. But he certainly wasn't great and he had his fair share of poor games before then getting injured. Then obviously he was poor this season, but hopefully that was just a result of him coming back too early and not a sign of things to come.

Obviously the hope is that he recovers fully this time, comes back and then is consistently at that level that he showed for his great third of last season. But a lot of people are making out that he was at that level for most of last season and he really wasn't.
 
I’ll be flabbergasted if he’s still here by the end of November. The Luton and Everton games have got ‘sack’ written all over them. The question is though, will they sack before INEOS arrive or will they just hang on and send everyone packing at the same time when they arrive?

I have said it many times before and will say it again I want the new recruitment structure to decide on Erik's future,if they decide he isn't the guy then fully back the decision,however if they want to give him more time I will back that too.

One thing that can't be argued is that Mount and Antony were awful signings,also will never forget losing 7-0 to the scousers with our strongest possible defence bar Wan Bissaka
 
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Will be surprised if hes still here in January, definitely made the team worse with his signings and now the results have gone tits up too.

Sad, had real hope we finally had the one last year, was doing so much with so little.
 
Yes, there are some good deals in there but two of them currently look like awful signings and only Martinez has no real question marks. It isn’t a great record.
You expect a manager to make every signing a 8+ ?
Which manager does that? name him. Certainly not pep and klopp

This ridiculous expectation is why we about to change to 4th manager in 3 years.
 
I find it strange that people use our signings to condemn any manager not just EtH. Manchester United sign players, not the manager. That said he should be doing better as our head coach.
 
Klopp literally finished outside Top4 last season and he barely scraped to 4th when Ole finished 2nd. Should he have gotten the sack then as well?

We had an insane amount of fixtures last seasons. We played the same amount of games Liverpool did the season before. The main difference is that we played them in half the time they did. Plus add the fact that there was a WC in the middle of the season, so naturally our players are going to be gassed. Give him till December and I expect us to look like a better version of ourselves compared to 12 months ago.


It's only a buzzword for those who haven't achieved anything in life. SAF himself said he had a vision of how he wanted United to look the moment he walked through the door.

What is it mate, you don't like the fact that your own biased posting past gets brought up as a means of showing that you don't know what you're talking about? Or the fact that you constantly drone about the Ten Hag cult, when you weren't any better about Conte?

The point is simple: there is plenty to defend ETH over. Simply look at my response to the above poster. If you need to know the simple reason why I don't blame ETH for the loss last night, it's simple: until the Rashford's red we looked twice the team against Copenhagen than Bayern or Galatasaray.

But just to prove to you that I'm not in the ETH cult, I will say this about him. I don't like that he doesn't trust the youth more: Hannibal, Pellistri and Garnacho have each shown that they deserve more minutes, and yet more experienced players got them. Also the fact that some players(not even his) don't get dropped for severly underperforming: ie. Rashford and Bruno.

I can go on and on, but the point is I don't see a better manager available right now. Carlo is sadly unavailable and Potter is a poor man's Ten Hag.

If we want to sack him, we need to revamp the footballing structure first: ie. get a competent DoF, a good footballing CEO and an actual scouting department. Till then, the new manager is going to do what all the managers did post SAF. Pick their targets and players and hope it works out.

So up until we sort this thing, nothing is going to change, nothing. So if that is the case, how about you back the manager and support our club for once, instead of being a miserable sod.

You haven't provided a single reason for defending the guy except the strawman argument of "no one else available and the board is bad". Nothing about his style, the way he's rebuilding the squad.. Etc. It's the same repeated nonsense, you want him to stay because you can't think of a replacement. You want to change the entire club structure before him. I'm yet to find someone who wants him to stay because he thinks he's doing something right regarding the tactics, style, or the squad. This is more than enough evidence of how terrible he has been. His cult can't even think of proper reasons for why he's the best manager for the current United.

You are trying to make it as if it is only about the last game or something, and not the fact we have been crap for about a while year now.

As for my own opinions and earlier posts, as I said before, I totally and completely don't care, but I'm not letting you goalshift the discussion from Ten Hag's current performance to my earlier posts just because you have nothing to say so decided to use personal attacks as a get out card instead to save your face.

Finally, I'm not backing shit. I support Man United, not Ten Hag. Learn the difference between both. Unlike you and other manager supporters, I actually care about the club's standards and don't shit over them just to defend the manager.
 
I find it strange that people use our signings to condemn any manager not just EtH. Manchester United sign players, not the manager. That said he should be doing better as our head coach.
Ten Hag clearly chose the players, therefore he gets criticised
 
Klopp literally finished outside Top4 last season and he barely scraped to 4th when Ole finished 2nd. Should he have gotten the sack then as well?

No. But what's it got to do with ETH producing shit football trying to scrape past lower mid table teams?

We played the same amount of games Liverpool did the season before. The main difference is that we played them in half the time they did.

:wenger:

Not how a football season works at all.
 
Klopp literally finished outside Top4 last season and he barely scraped to 4th when Ole finished 2nd. Should he have gotten the sack then as well?
Those bad seasons came after very good ones (league title won, 2 cups + 2nd in league + CL final). He'd bought himself more than enough credit.

Nonetheless, the fact that Klopp hasn't won Liverpool a major title in three seasons is an issue.
 
Ten Hag clearly chose the players, therefore he gets criticised
Question, Do you want Murtough to choose it instead?
Don't get it wrong, it's a valid criticism but when you look at the alternative...you'd see why we have this conversation. If we could redo again, I'm sure many still trust ETH to pick target instead of club doing it. Pricetag is also another issue but that different topic
 
I find it strange that people use our signings to condemn any manager not just EtH. Manchester United sign players, not the manager. That said he should be doing better as our head coach.
Yeah it was just a small coincidence that most of the signings were his ex players or happened to play in the league he used to manage. Clearly he had no say in those signings.
 
Ten Hag gets criticized for the players signed because he managed some of them. This should give him enough information to assess that some of them aren't up to the standards of Manchester United. The fact that he couldn't see that suggests he didn't understand the level required at United.
 
I’m still not sure about ETH. I’d love him to succeed but I don’t think he has what it takes - his continuous errors and flaws this season and last have shown he isn’t capable. However, am I been harsh because he has a poor squad that flattered last season due to many clubs having shockers too.
I said at the start of the season that 6th would be good for this squad and I’m pretty sure we won’t finish that night come May. Hopefully we finish bottom of the CL group and don’t play Thursday nights (we ain’t qualifying for next round so might as well bang out now) and this threadbare squad can stumble along in the league and try and improve rather than a ridiculous fixture list we had last season.
I just can’t understand his signings though - all looking to flop potentially.
 
Klopp literally finished outside Top4 last season and he barely scraped to 4th when Ole finished 2nd. Should he have gotten the sack then as well?
Klopp has won the league and the CL. He's one of the best managers in the world. I really wanted ETH to succeed, but he made a lot of mistakes which got us where we are now.
 
:wenger:

Not how a football season works at all.

You are correct , Liverpool didn’t have to contend with a World Cup mid year.

The point is that Klopp got a pass because of fatigue due to matches. Why does that mean ETH doesn’t deserve the same excuse when injuries have plagued us? We Did ok last season when the squad wasn’t run into the ground and since the squad has look jaded it’s not been right.

Why do we have so many injuries? Is it perhaps the same reason liverpool struggled last season and players being fatigued can actually happen to United players when they play MORE games in a calendar year then Klopps exhausted team last season?
 
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Ten Hag gets criticized for the players signed because he managed some of them. This should give him enough information to assess that some of them aren't up to the standards of Manchester United. The fact that he couldn't see that suggests he didn't understand the level required at United.

Exactly! How hard is it for people to understand this?

I have seen people mention SAF and Bebe. Yes, SAF and every other manager have made mistakes in transfers. But can you imagine that SAF became the manager of Real Madrid and then asked for 100 million from Real to get Bebe from Man Utd? Sounds silly, right? Well, that's what ETH did with Antony!

Or perhaps, can you imagine ETH becoming the manager of Real Madrid in 2024 and asking them to get Antony from us for 150 million? Real should shack him right away, just for this!
 
hey Bebe's scored more league goals this year than Rashford. Put some respect on the man's name. ;)
 
I find it strange that people use our signings to condemn any manager not just EtH. Manchester United sign players, not the manager. That said he should be doing better as our head coach.

Really??! You find that strange? I mean this is the dumbest thing I’ve read today and granted I’ve just started going through the day but I think this will still be top of the list.

So, let me go deeper since I am wasting my 1/3 posts of the day on this.

Why do you find it strange? When oh when have we signed players that were not the ones the manager wanted? Except for Ronaldo (who was still Ole’s decision but I assume the club hierarchy wanting him more than the manager)

Do you not know our managers always have their own transfer targets and build their own teams? Do you not remember Mourinho throwing a fuss when we couldn’t sign Maguire? Do you not remember Ole going after Sancho publicly? Do you not realize we have no DOF to make transfer decisions and instead, we ALWAYS try to get the players identified by the manager?

And lastly, do you not see we’ve been signing all dutch league players that Ten Hag has been familiar with or previously managed?

I mean I really want to know what else do you find strange in life?
 
Erik Ten Hag is a dead man walking at United. The moment he decided he will abandon his philosophy and principles in pursuit of results his faith was sealed. As his supporter of what he did at Ajax i am terribly disappointed but the truth is he needs to be sacked ASAP.
And that will continue to happen at this club due to enormous pressure. Bring in a new manager with his philosophy, 2 losses and he would be eaten alive by the media and some fans, to the point they abandon their principle for result oriented football. Happened with Van gaal after his loss to Leicester and he integrated Fellaini into the system. Happening again now.

Funny how some mention arteta, the guy would have been mocked left right and center and called the worst thing to happen to the club after his 8th and 8th finish.
 
And that will continue to happen at this club due to enormous pressure. Bring in a new manager with his philosophy, 2 losses and he would be eaten alive by the media and some fans, to the point they abandon their principle for result oriented football. Happened with Van gaal after his loss to Leicester and he integrated Fellaini into the system. Happening again now.

Funny how some mention arteta, the guy would have been mocked left right and center and called the worst thing to happen to the club after his 8th and 8th finish.

Time + blind faith = Arteta
 
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