Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I want you to tell me which players you think have thrown multiple managers under the bus.

Of the ones still here, Martial and Rashford threw 4 managers under the bus. Sancho threw 3 under the bus.

Not on purpose but through lack of ability/backbone AWB, Dalot, McTominay, Lindelof, Maguire, Bruno contributed heavily to Ole/Rangnick/ETH downfalls.
 
And I said if you have supported us for more than 3 years then you'll know which names to look at.
Hint - I named some of them a while ago.
I think you don't understand how much you have to feck up to piss off everyone to the point no one wants to play for you any more. That's not just something that happens over night, that's consistently shitty behaviour and an unwillingness to listen to feedback.

A couple of players from 4 managers ago, that don't even play can't rock the boat to that extent, and if they tried to they'd just get exiled immediately, like Ten Hag has already done to a few players.
 
Our players never threw managers under the bus. It's just a myth said by the manager cult. Even Martial was playing well in Mourinho's last few months.

It's not an issue of effort.
 
Of the ones still here, Martial and Rashford threw 4 managers under the bus. Sancho threw 3 under the bus.

Not on purpose but through utter lack of ability/backbone AWB, Dalot, McTominay, Lindelof, Maguire, Bruno contributed heavily to Ole/Rangnick/ETH downfalls.

Rashford's form last season is literally the reason Ten Hag got a 2nd season to start with. He's pretty much the only attacker who played well under him.
 
Of the ones still here, Martial and Rashford threw 4 managers under the bus. Sancho threw 3 under the bus.

Not on purpose but through utter lack of ability/backbone AWB, Dalot, McTominay, Lindelof, Maguire contributed to Ole/Rangnick/ETH downfalls.
You don't know any of that mate, Martial is the only one who had an open disagreement with Mourinho but how much of an influence does he have on the squad to draw dissent from others? He's hardly fit enough to be in the squad, why would anyone listen to him complain about anything? Rashford hasn't thrown anyone under the bus so I'm not sure where this keeps coming from.
 
I think you don't understand how much you have to feck up to piss off everyone to the point no one wants to play for you any more. That's not just something that happens over night, that's consistently shitty behaviour and an unwillingness to listen to feedback.

A couple of players from 4 managers ago, that don't even play can't rock the boat to that extent, and if they tried to they'd just get exiled immediately, like Ten Hag has already done to a few players.
I don't think you understand how weak and spineless you have to be to throw 3 managers under a bus. The briefs coming out under Rangnick for example were that players didn't want to drive 5pm in the dark. Right now they are complaining about shirts being too fecking tight.

And it's not a couple of players. I said there's 8-9 of them.
 
You don't know any of that mate, Martial is the only one who had an open disagreement with Mourinho but how much of an influence does he have on the squad to draw dissent from others? He's hardly fit enough to be in the squad, why would anyone listen to him complain about anything? Rashford hasn't thrown anyone under the bus so I'm not sure where this keeps coming from.
"you don't know that mate"
 
I don't think you understand how weak and spineless you have to be to throw 3 managers under a bus. The briefs coming out under Rangnick for example were that players didn't want to drive 5pm in the dark. Right now they are complaining about shirts being too fecking tight.

And it's not a couple of players. I said there's 8-9 of them.
"you don't know that mate"
You'll believe anything that absolves Ten Hag won't you? Do you really think they're blaming their shirts being too tight as a reason they're losing games? Come the feck on. If you want to put this on the players entirely then there's not really much else to say except for you're going to see, in a relatively short amount of time, what can happen when you get a manager that isn't a toxic dick.

If these players are so spineless then how can they win multiple trophies under multiple managers? How come it only goes to shit when the manager starts publicly shaming them?
 
There's a bit of theme around the type of players that get labeled toxic by certain groups of our fanbase.

Lingard, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Sancho... Wonder what it is?
 
Seems some people have the wrong definition for throwing under the bus.

Rashford has been present for 3 managerial collapses (Rangnick never got off the ground). In all of those his form nose dived and in all of those there were many briefings against the manager from several or more different sources within the squad.

He’s also got an entourage who have a track record of briefing bullshit to inflate his value.

That’s not excusing any managers either. None of the managers he’s played under are good enough for this club.
 
The more this thread progresses it feels like the online supporter base is as toxic as the club is at the moment. All pretty depressing.
 
There's a bit of theme around the type of players that get labeled toxic by certain groups of our fanbase.

Lingard, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Sancho... Wonder what it is?

Shit clothing brands, gaming addictions, immaturity, too invested in their own brands over football???

Some more themes - strong suspicions of leaking, openly flirting with other clubs in the media, having scumbag agents.
 
Seems some people have the wrong definition for throwing under the bus.

Rashford has been present for 3 managerial collapses (Rangnick never got off the ground). In all of those his form nose dived and in all of those there were many briefings against the manager from several or more different sources within the squad.

He’s also got an entourage who have a track record of briefing bullshit to inflate his value.

That’s not excusing any managers either. None of the managers he’s played under are good enough for this club.
He's also the players that gets the most shit from United fans no matter what he does. Just because he fights back against accusations doesn't mean he's actively causing players to revolt against the management. Has there been a statement from him or his 'team' calling out a manager like some other players have?
 
Seems some people have the wrong definition for throwing under the bus.

Rashford has been present for 3 managerial collapses (Rangnick never got off the ground). In all of those his form nose dived and in all of those there were many briefings against the manager from several or more different sources within the squad.

He’s also got an entourage who have a track record of briefing bullshit to inflate his value.

That’s not excusing any managers either. None of the managers he’s played under are good enough for this club.

Why would he throw Ten Hag under the bus? He plays every single minute of every game. He never gets subbed off or benched. If he was turning on the manager, he would have been benched already. Ten Hag threw Sancho out of the window because he dared to say he's not a scapegoat, but Rashford keeps on playing nonstop and we are supposed to believe he's throwing Ten Hag under the bus?
 
There's a bit of theme around the type of players that get labeled toxic by certain groups of our fanbase.

Lingard, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Sancho... Wonder what it is?
Although there is an undercurrent there sometimes, I think we can safely say Pogba and Lingard were absolutely gobshites who loved to garner a following of wicked whispers.
 
The statement in full, with context, is nothing shocking at all and makes sense in his approach to not come in and try to Ajaxify the club.

I don't see how that makes sense. As a coach you usually have to prove yourself before a top club even considers you. And Ten Hag proved himself at Ajax, coaching a certain playing style. You signed him because of his successes there but for some reason, he felt the need to abandon (some of) the concepts that made him successful at Ajax and brought him on the radar of United to begin with. Which means he is unproven at what he currently tries to implement.

I don't know why he changed his approach. Maybe the club asked him to do so, maybe it comes from himself or maybe he realized a possession oriented style wouldn't be accepted at the club for whatever reason. Whatever it is, Ten Hag hasn't proven that he can successfully implement what he is currently trying to implement at the required level. It is essentially an experiment. Like an Italian restaurant signing a chef because they liked his sushi.

Now the question is, is United really in the position to go for experiments or wouldn't they be better off simply adapting what othwes are doing successfully. With City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham four direct competitors are playing positional play based systems. And with Ten Hag, United even has a manager who succesfully coached one previously. It is such an obvious choice.

Your wording 'Ajaxifying' sums this up pretty well. Somehow people fear that the club would lose its identity if it changed the system. But why is that? Was Bayern "Ajaxified" by van Gaal? City "Barcafied" by Pep?

I think in the end, it is nostalgia standing in the way. United was very successful playing direct football and people don't want to accept that the approach isn't producing results anymore. It seems United wants to get back at the top by doing it the old way. But it is what it is.
 
Why would he throw Ten Hag under the bus? He plays every single minute of every game. He never gets subbed off or benched. If he was turning on the manager, he would have been benched already. Ten Hag threw Sancho out of the window because he dared to say he's not a scapegoat, but Rashford keeps on playing nonstop and we are supposed to believe he's throwing Ten Hag under the bus?

I'm not say he's actively plotting things. But when things dont go his way on the pitch he does nothing but mope and sulk. He's doubtless the same off the pitch.

When things are going badly for the club it's all about self preservation. So when it comes to players within the squad briefing against the manager to make themselves look better, he will be one of them.

It's happened too many times across too many different managers for it to not involve him to some degree.
 
I'm not say he's actively plotting things. But when things dont go his way on the pitch he does nothing but mope and sulk. He's doubtless the same off the pitch.

When things are going badly for the club it's all about self preservation. So when it comes to players within the squad briefing against the manager to make themselves look better, he will be one of them.

It's happened too many times across too many different managers for it to not involve him to some degree.

Yet the manager never subs him off or benches him, even while playing pretty poorly every game. That must mean that he's actually following the manager's instructions and obeying him, going by what happened with Sancho.
 
Yet the manager never subs him off or benches him, even while playing pretty poorly every game. That must mean that he's actually following the manager's instructions and obeying him, going by what happened with Sancho.

Or it means there's a lot of pressure within the club to play the most marketable player on the highest salary.
 
100% - that's why I prefaced it, I totally get that change can lead to a drop off, and from your post I think you probably agree, but I think the entire fanbase would also agree that there's no way we would accept so much change that we are left with the squad looking like they're shot as footballers; ETH has to show the benefits of what he's doing, with all the noise in the media he has to give reasoning as to why we are in this mess and why what he is doing is worth it in the long run, and not just platitudes, I like the guy, he's done well at Ajax, seems he has a modern tactical background and the history of Ajax is that it took a while for it to go right, but he needs to get positivity into the team and the fanbase because everything is starting to sour...
Very well said
 
I am actually in contrast to majority on here as I don't fully hate the players for feeling downbeat and questioning the manager. I have been in jobs where I did not believe in my manager, I doubted his knowledge, his management style, and it did impact my performance and my willingness to put extra effort. I think you would need to be extremely resistant and focused to not allow that to impact you.

This prevalent hatred and disdain for players began under Moyes which makes me even more so skeptical of the whole premise. I remember at the time how fans on here abused 'these fecking players' for letting Moyes down, fully knowing it was a team that won the title mere months before and had won so many accolades prior to that. I was not going to lean towards hating them all of a sudden to show support to a manager that could not handle the task. Now is slightly different as these players have largely achieved nothing at United, most of them haven't even won a serious trophy here, so it's perhaps fair to question their attitudes, however I do appreciate that their doubts may be well founded.

To be fair I think all sentiments are true. We need new leadership, we need a squad overhaul and we need a new manager.
 
Or it means there's a lot of pressure within the club to play the most marketable player on the highest salary.

Ten Hag is in survival mode. He's desperate to get any result to save his arse. He won't play a player who is performing poorly and could get him the sack just because of this.
 
It is essentially an experiment. Like an Italian restaurant signing a chef because they liked his sushi.

I think the difference between football tactics isn't as large as the difference between Italian food and sushi.
 
You'll believe anything that absolves Ten Hag won't you? Do you really think they're blaming their shirts being too tight as a reason they're losing games? Come the feck on. If you want to put this on the players entirely then there's not really much else to say except for you're going to see, in a relatively short amount of time, what can happen when you get a manager that isn't a toxic dick.

If these players are so spineless then how can they win multiple trophies under multiple managers? How come it only goes to shit when the manager starts publicly shaming them?
No, I wouldn't.

Im not even talking about Ten Hag here. I'm saying a bunch of players who have doubted 2-3 different managers OUSTIDE OF TEN HAG should rightly have their mentality questioned.

I understand when you clutch at straws your go-to argument is "blargh you'll do anything to absolve ten hag", but I'm not actually talking about Ten Hag here.
 
Of the ones still here, Martial and Rashford threw 4 managers under the bus. Sancho threw 3 under the bus.

Not on purpose but through lack of ability/backbone AWB, Dalot, McTominay, Lindelof, Maguire, Bruno contributed heavily to Ole/Rangnick/ETH downfalls.
Martial had every reason to 'throw Mourinho under the bus', but in reality every time Mourinho actually gave him a run of games in his last 12 months Martial was our best attacker. Mourinho was the one with a massive chip on his shoulder and kept looking for every opportunity to drop him because of a personal dislike. Hell, Martial (along with Pogba, another player who had good reason to want him gone) kept Mourinho in a job for a couple of months longer than he should have by scoring 7 goals in 7 starts just when it looked like he was going to be sacked.

Nobody threw Mourinho under the bus; he fuelled it up and drove the bus off the damn cliff himself. It doesn't matter what club in the world you go to if the manager is creating an incredibly toxic environment the players will want him gone. There's a reason it's happened to Mourinho at every club he's been at in the second half of his career. That is 100% his own fault.
 
Ten Hag is in survival mode. He's desperate to get any result to save his arse. He won't play a player who is performing poorly and could get him the sack just because of this.

He's not in survival mode at all. He played Casemiro as a lone midfielder against Newcastle. Hannibal and Garnacho etc.

When he is in survival mode it will be obvious. Ole played 5-3-2 against Spurs in his death throws: Shaw-Lindelof-Maguire-Varane-AWB.

If we see 5 at the back or a packed midfield for the first time this season tomorrow, then we'll know ETH is finally cracking.
 
There's a bit of theme around the type of players that get labeled toxic by certain groups of our fanbase.

Lingard, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Sancho... Wonder what it is?

AWB has been highly praised for his attitude by everyone and most fans would prefer to keep him instead of Dalot. As is Casemiro (people shit on his form, not attitude). Lindelof and especially Maguire are under constant abuse while there is shitload of people who think Shaw is part of toxicity as he will go through motions and sometimes look unprepared or overweight. De Gea was seen as week and timid goalkeeper and fans couldn't wait to see the back of him welcoming Onana.

Every single one of those you mention have critics because they have a laidback attitude and aside for Lingard their work rate is/was extremely low. That is all there is in it, if he we somehow bought Kante when we should have people would absolutely be in love with him. At this point, your attempts to throw as much shit as possible at fanbase are pathetic and now you are even suggesting there is racial element behind their actions.

"Wonder what it is"... Give me a break
 
There's a bit of theme around the type of players that get labeled toxic by certain groups of our fanbase.

Lingard, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Sancho... Wonder what it is?

They are all unispiring, lazy and inconsistent?

You also conventiently left out Henderson, Shaw, Maguire and Lindelof, who have all been called toxic at one point or another.

He's not in survival mode at all. He played Casemiro as a lone midfielder against Newcastle. Hannibal and Garnacho etc.

When he is in survival mode it will be obvious. Ole played 5-3-2 against Spurs in his death throws: Shaw-Lindelof-Maguire-Varane-AWB.

If we see 5 at the back or a packed midfield for the first time this season tomorrow, then we'll know ETH is finally cracking.

Would be interesting if he went the complete opposite way. Just packing attack with as much firepower as possible.

Rashford - Hojlund - Martial
Mount - Bruno
Casemiro - McT
Lindelof - Varane - Maguire
Onana​
 
There's a bit of theme around the type of players that get labeled toxic by certain groups of our fanbase.

Lingard, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Sancho... Wonder what it is?

:lol:

You talk so much shite sometimes, it's like @Bebestation never got banned.
 
No, I wouldn't.

Im not even talking about Ten Hag here. I'm saying a bunch of players who have doubted 2-3 different managers OUSTIDE OF TEN HAG should rightly have their mentality questioned.

I understand when you clutch at straws your go-to argument is "blargh you'll do anything to absolve ten hag", but I'm not actually talking about Ten Hag here.
So most likely among Rashford, Sancho, Bruno, Shaw and Martial then. You may also count Maguire, Varane, Lindelof or Mctominay etc but they don’t look like the type would go against our previous 2-3 managers.
 
He's not in survival mode at all. He played Casemiro as a lone midfielder against Newcastle. Hannibal and Garnacho etc.

When he is in survival mode it will be obvious. Ole played 5-3-2 against Spurs in his death throws: Shaw-Lindelof-Maguire-Varane-AWB.

If we see 5 at the back or a packed midfield for the first time this season tomorrow, then we'll know ETH is finally cracking.

The fact he started to play Scott McTominay regularly ahead of his own signing Mount proves he's in survival mode.
 
Martial had every reason to 'throw Mourinho under the bus', but in reality every time Mourinho actually gave him a run of games in his last 12 months Martial was our best attacker. Mourinho was the one with a massive chip on his shoulder and kept looking for every opportunity to drop him because of a personal dislike. Hell, Martial (along with Pogba, another player who had good reason to want him gone) kept Mourinho in a job for a couple of months longer than he should have by scoring 7 goals in 7 starts just when it looked like he was going to be sacked.

Nobody threw Mourinho under the bus; he fuelled it up and drove the bus off the damn cliff himself. It doesn't matter what club in the world you go to if the manager is creating an incredibly toxic environment the players will want him gone. There's a reason it's happened to Mourinho at every club he's been at in the second half of his career. That is 100% his own fault.

No idea why any United fan ever talks about Mourinho in any positive light or makes excuses for him. He did here exactly what he has done at clubs before AND after his time here. He is demonstrably toxic, with an awful playing style. He has resulted in multiple referees receiving horrendous treatment from fans with his blame tactics. Look at him waiting for the referee in the car park after that European final at Roma - that behaviour is ill befitting any self-respecting club or individual.
 
He's not in survival mode at all. He played Casemiro as a lone midfielder against Newcastle. Hannibal and Garnacho etc.

When he is in survival mode it will be obvious. Ole played 5-3-2 against Spurs in his death throws: Shaw-Lindelof-Maguire-Varane-AWB.

If we see 5 at the back or a packed midfield for the first time this season tomorrow, then we'll know ETH is finally cracking.

That was when everyone believed he was on the chop, Conte was available and talking with Spurs and everyone thought we were going to fire Ole and hire Conte. Ole’s response was trying to impersonate Conte by playing the same formation and the same brand of football, and we actually won 3-0 after a solid performance. Those were the days. :lol:
 
I am very jaded by everything, so taking it easy to spare my mental health, so avoiding news/discussion but I had one question.

Why aren't we playing more compact? Why do we look so all over the place? I don't get it. For a great coach he isnt coaching great at all...
 
The fact he started to play Scott McTominay regularly ahead of his own signing Mount proves he's in survival mode.

Mount just doesn't look very fit. Everything Ten Hag has done when it comes to Mount suggests a niggling injury they are trying to not aggrevate. A three minute run out, followed by a 45 minute run out, followed by 90 minutes in a low intensity (cause we were crap) league cup game. I don't think he's fit to be playing week in and week out at this point in time.
 
Mount just doesn't look very fit. Everything Ten Hag has done when it comes to Mount suggests a niggling injury they are trying to not aggrevate. A three minute run out, followed by a 45 minute run out, followed by 90 minutes in a low intensity (cause we were crap) league cup game. I don't think he's fit to be playing week in and week out at this point in time.
Would make sense to be fair. Mount is a crock, thats what annoys me about the purchase if anything.
 
That was when everyone believed he was on the chop, Conte was available and talking with Spurs and everyone thought we were going to fire Ole and hire Conte. Ole’s response was trying to impersonate Conte by playing the same formation and the same brand of football, and we actually won 3-0 after a solid performance. Those were the days. :lol:

Being pragmatic was one of Ole's good points. Even if he didnt have any tactical nous.

Impression with Erik is it doesnt matter how bad it gets for him, he'll stick to his 'principles' and for some reason that means playing 4-1-5.
 
I am very jaded by everything, so taking it easy to spare my mental health, so avoiding news/discussion but I had one question.

Why aren't we playing more compact? Why do we look so all over the place? I don't get it. For a great coach he isnt coaching great at all...

I understand what he was trying originally to press as much as possible but it leaves us far too exposed we don't have the midfield for it. See Liverpool last year.

At this point he needs to go back to making us compact and hard to beat like he did last year after a rough start. He obviously doesn't want to sacrifice his principles but he has to otherwise stubbornness will be his downfall.
 
There are just too many injuries. This is not bad luck anymore. Something has to change with the training regimes.

We are either overworking the players or not conditioning them well enough.
 
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