Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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Yeah Ten Hag needs to buy an entire new squad before we can judge him. That means 23 players and 2 billions at least spent. Then we can start judging him properly. Poor guy.
I don't believe that Ten Hag will win more trophies with us. But we must use him as a sort of battering ram, for want of a better word. As soon as the lazy players are gone, we could dispense with Ten Hag. I address this solution to those who are hell bent on the manager getting the sack.
You could easily say that’s Antony, Casemiro, Eriksen or Mount also. They’ve been brought in, not played or played in a system that doesn’t benefit them and then had little training to adapt to the new system from the manager. It’s not exclusive to players that previous managers brought in because you want that to be true and you want them sold.
Think there is this thing with some other match going fans that they think they have to stick by the manager, no matter what. It's admirable, don't get me wrong, but really you're just cutting your nose off. Even so, I heard quite a few at Newcastle talking about him needing to be sacked. There were a handful trying to get 'ETH's red and white army' going at one point but nobody really got involved. I think deep down everybody knows.
Well its the same story under a 3rd manager, so its more than likely not those players. Especially when you consider Casemiro has been suspended anyway, Mount has been injured for a while and Antony was out for a month.
The mainstays in the team have been Rashford, Bruno, Lindelof, Dalot, Maguire, Martial, McTominay. All of whom have been used more in recent weeks and all stunk up the place with some weaksauce mentality when going got tough under 2 sometimes 3 different managers.
It’s damming isn’t it? It all coincides with our form getting gradually worse as the players forgot/got lost due to the lack of technical sessions. I get that clubs like city would probably do this due to how well the players are drilled and know their roles but someone had to teach them that in the first place and we’re no where near them so it’s daft in pretending we can just buy players that are better drilled and it will all work out.
The next manager needs to accept he has to get these players well drilled and playing well first and foremost, just like ten hag did when he first arrived.
That's really not true at all.
You are right, he wants that, but it keeps not working and isn't insanity defined as when somebody keeps doing a thing that clearly doesn't work?
100% - that's why I prefaced it, I totally get that change can lead to a drop off, and from your post I think you probably agree, but I think the entire fanbase would also agree that there's no way we would accept so much change that we are left with the squad looking like they're shot as footballers; ETH has to show the benefits of what he's doing, with all the noise in the media he has to give reasoning as to why we are in this mess and why what he is doing is worth it in the long run, and not just platitudes, I like the guy, he's done well at Ajax, seems he has a modern tactical background and the history of Ajax is that it took a while for it to go right, but he needs to get positivity into the team and the fanbase because everything is starting to sour...
It’s looking like the end isn’t it. Not sure where we go from here in terms of the rest of this season if he’s sacked but the football and results just aren’t good enough. His signings are dog shit as well.
It could be argued that recent trust placed in more physically dominant players just to keep shit simple and win 50/50's in a tough league (McT and Maguire) was part of a twist to try and get us back to basics rather than entrusting say, Mount to transcend our style just yet.
But it didnt work very well of course, and he'll need to adapt futher.
Timing matters when using these examples. The typical match-going fan probably didn't want most of these managers sacked 1 month before the got sacked, but near the end they most certainly did.
In football the pessimists are going to be right 9 times out of 10. That's why they feel smug about wanting to sack a manager long before the general consensus shifts.
It’s not at all. You want it to be but that’s not the way it works. Why would the players throw the manager under the bus if he was genuinely coaching them to be successful or setting them up right? They’re not openly discussing mutiny in a WhatsApp group are they? “Hey lads, it’s going well isn’t it? Watch this space, I’m about to feck shit up for everyone”.
Something isn’t right, he’s rubbing people the wrong way, he’s calling them out as shit, there’s not enough coaching going on to help those who are struggling and the second you question him you’re sent to the reserves with a packed lunch.
Whomever’s disgruntled has every right to be because I see a team that is set up very poorly every game, and then I see a manager come out and say the players aren’t doing their responsibilities.
Again, that's not true at all.
Did most match-going fans really want Ole out in late October and Mourinho out in mid November? That is not how I remember it.
Players have far, far too much power these days, and once they beat a manager a single time (Jose Mourinho), they know they can do it again and again. Players have many reasons to revolt - they may think another style suits their game better whilst forgetting about the team as a whole, they may also think that another manager might play a system which gives them better minutes. And so on.
I say it again, we should hope Ten Hag gets rid of the so called prima donnas, then we'll see who can replace him. That is the only smart thing left for us to do.
Throw Potter in as an interim I’m sure the current f ups can be trusted to do that. We will sort out our manager in the summer.
We just need ETH out of the building for now.
We just need ETH out of the building for now.
Maguire coming in wasn't really a choice by ETH. He had to play due to a ridiculous injury list, and to be fair to Maguire his performances have warranted moving ahead of Lindelof and Evans in a period that Martinez, Shaw and to a significant amount Varane have all been injured.
I remember a lot of fans at OT wanting Jose out since his first game
Many weren't keen on his Chelsea history but it was mainly that they didn't buy into his style. There was certainly a bump when big signings came and we thought it could be different - but it faded quite quickly. I remember a lot of people at OT actually favoured Martial and Pogba over him during their bust ups. Debated the matter at the pubs where my case was "if they win here, theyve won forever it wont change".
There was a lot more patience with Ole but again, a general sentiment that the job was too big for him after a while and he took us as far as we can (this again was in patches. For example when we were 1 game away from finishing 5th on the final day of the season, the sentiment wasnt thaat good, and that was in the 2nd season).
He could have benched Maguire for a Lindelof-Varane combo vs City, but didn't. Citing tactics (lol).
I remember a lot of fans at OT wanting Jose out since his first game
There is a difference between "a lot" and "general consensus" though. But we are entering a very pedantic territory so I think that I'll leave it there
Jose went to war with Pogba and Martial, who had allies in Lingard, Bailly and maybe even Rashford at that point and god knows who else. Then there was all the Spanish lads that hung out together in a clic. None of those groups exist anymore. I don’t know if you saw but Antony was openly shaking his head at not being subbed on in the derby, that’s the first open display of dissent I’ve seen under Ten Hag since Ronaldo. The players you’re saying through Moyes, Jose, Van Gaal under the bus are no longer here, they’ve been booted out or marginalised.
Not really, and I'm not sure what metric you are using to judge a general consensus of match going fans.There is a difference between "a lot" and "general consensus" though. But we are entering a very pedantic territory now so I think that I'll leave it there
Unless you have a polling station outside of OT to gauge it, you can't really justify otherwise.
Personally don't think it is admirable. More damaging than admirable.
I hope the fecker Sancho doesn’t scurry back in when ETH is sacked. He needs to be sold asap
Admirable that they're willing to suffer just so some guy gets to keep his job. I don't really know what it's supposed to achieve anymore - with Ole it did far more damage than good. I think they maybe cling to Fergie's words of 'stand by your manager' still to this day. But I don't think Fergie truly believed it would get this bad when he said that.
It’s not admirable. A lot of them think that every manager will be Fergie if you let them get rid of the [alcoholics/party boys/players who think they’re bigger than the club]. Then they sit around and discuss things that only match going fans could see like they have insight into a players psyche.
Let’s just agree he is very average manager then. He can’t make any difference despite 400m fund spent.
He probably will, but surely he knows he’s on borrowed time at that point so he better turn into prime messi or he’s gone in the summer
You are clinging at straws mate. These players stunk up a fuss under Jose, under Ole, under Rangnick and some are still there now under Ten Hag. Most of my named players were there under Ole/Rangnick at least.
4 managers of different ilk, different mindsets, different playing styles and all of whom have had a media leak that they are not impressed with training methods, that they are losing belief. Go figure.
Regarding Antony, shaking your head means the square root as feck all - it's very common. Antony is a player who said he'd follow Ten Hag anywhere he asked when the manager left Ajax. But if you think he suddenly dislikes him because he shook his head then you do you mate.
As if he we are capable of selling him
I think more than anything, it has exposed our fanbase to have quite a poor aptitude for this sport.
It's a fanbase that needs a narrative sold to it, that they can regurgitate and follow. It hasn't got the aptitude to assess what's happening on the pitch, so that's why the whole narratives around "desire", "wanting it more" and "downing tools" are so popular among it. It's the only fanbase in team sports that finds struggles to differentiate between a good and a bad footballer.
Aye that's a good point!
Which players? Name them under each manager. You simply don't know and that's the reality. Every manager you've mentioned had clear and obvious issues with man management, whether it was being too soft or too harsh on certain individuals. You can assume its certain players all you like but I guarantee it's only the players you think aren't good enough for United or don't like.
I know its a weak argument when the standard has been sooooo bad...
But it is very difficult to find players who can perform under so much scrutiny and criticism. Social media is everything these days and the bombardment from absolutely everywhere telling the players they are shit can't be easy to ignore. Literally everyone wants United to fail! which you get reminded about every few days. Arsenal got beat 3-1 by West Ham the other day, but you wouldn't know it. Newcastle beat City in the previous round. But both are nothing stories.
Something EtH and the club should take into account the next time they enter the transfer market. But finding a player big enough to take the enormous pressure and also not cost a transfer record fee (because that is another thing to kill them for) is bloody difficult. Especially when the clubs own fans expect every signing to be 100% successful. A few bad signings and the manager is killed for it.
It's a awful environment for any type of success.
But it is very difficult to find players who can perform under so much scrutiny and criticism. Social media is everything these days and the bombardment from absolutely everywhere telling the players they are shit can't be easy to ignore. Literally everyone wants United to fail! which you get reminded about every few days. Arsenal got beat 3-1 by West Ham the other day, but you wouldn't know it. Newcastle beat City in the previous round. But both are nothing stories.
Something EtH and the club should take into account the next time they enter the transfer market. But finding a player big enough to take the enormous pressure and also not cost a transfer record fee (because that is another thing to kill them for) is bloody difficult. Especially when the clubs own fans expect every signing to be 100% successful. A few bad signings and the manager is killed for it.
It's a awful environment for any type of success.
You want me to name players that have been here under our last 2 managers? You can do that yourself, if you've supported us for longer than 3 years.
And yeah, I dont know the reality. I just know that theres a group of players still here, that were here under Rangnick, and Ole, some even under Jose - and every manager had briefs against them that the players dont believe the methods.
All managers happened to be a different style, and a different approach, and the briefs game anyway. So yeah, I don't know what happens inside out, but I do know that there comes a point where theres something wrong with certain players.
Your logic of "you don't know that!" based on this groundhog day brief is a bit like me saying "you don't know Ten Hag wanted Antony really badly and not John Murtough".
Well the reality for him is that if he stills wants to move after Ten Hag has been sacked then he better do something that makes him saleable or he's going to Saudi Arabia.As if he we are capable of selling him
I want you to tell me which players you think have thrown multiple managers under the bus.
And I said if you have supported us for more than 3 years then you'll know which names to look at.
Hint - I named some of them a while ago.
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