Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I understand gripes players may have but falling out with the manager because he wants to sell Maguire is fecking ridiculous. Clubs can sell players.
That club needs a clear out, snakes wanting another manager to they can last another 18 months and drag us down even further
 
Player motivation is the key ask of the Manager / Coach.

Ten Hag has lost his dressing room through falling out with his employees (the players). The rot really set in with the shit house treatment of De Gea. It's carried on with Sancho.

He is toast. Burnt toast.
 
Sarni said:
Our complete inability to pick up bargains has been concerning for a long time. It's as if we have this unshakeable urge to sign expensive players, not just to improve the first team but even to fill out the squad with rotation players.

Virtually every club is able to pick up cheap / free players to fill their rosters while we spend £50m+ on players with a mere back up role already in mind.
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The problem is that any player less than £50m is used as a weapon to attack the club with by the fanbase. Glazers being cheap, not good enough etc.

Any young player who doesn't cost a bomb, also is never getting a run of games here too. Reserves, loan, bench, token minutes and more loans is their destiny here.

And then fanbase laps it up to "must be shit in training"
 
As a Chelsea fan I think that I am qualified as an expert in this kinda scenario. The media does seem to be circling in on him now which I haven't really noticed until the past week.

You've got some (on paper) easy fixtures coming up which could work in, or against the manager's favour. Get a few wins and the pressure is off but drop points to the likes of Fulham and Luton and he could be toast.
 
Mickeza said:
The Athletic article today really paints a manager in trouble who may have lost the dressing room. Always amuses me when people bang on about play style and tactics and all this shite when it is a very small percentage of how to win games. Managing players, building a team first culture and keeping them believing in what you’re doing is how you compete and win games - and it seems he may be close to losing a few. Not helped by the club as usual - when you make it obvious you don’t want Maguire - he needs to be sold. Ditto Mctominay, DVB, Sancho and whoever else was on his out list. ETH wants to be ruthless but he’s at a club that does not operate in that way.
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Man management and other nore rudimentary things may be the basics but in the end the playing style/system/philosophy/whatever you want to call it makes the difference. There's been no continously successful team in the last decade without one, especially in terms of league performances. And on top of that, you could even say that almost all currently succesful teams play substyles of one particular playing style. It should be worrying for you that Ten Hag feels the need to move away from it at United since he deems it not fitting for the club but I'd say he isn't blameless in that as he should be more idealistic and was brought in as an agent of agent.
 
He's lost the dressing room like every manager before him.

Part of me hopes the club brings in a Conte or Simeone when Ten Hag eventually gets sacked. See how the players like a real taskmaster.
 
These players are a joke. Ten Hag will end up losing his job, the manager always does when it gets to this point but its utterly depressing how much influence these shit, selfish, egotistical footballers have.
 
Cheimoon said:
Exactly. Halfway last season, around the Barcelona games, Ten Hag was really getting somewhere with United, and individual players. And he got there through his own doing: he wasn't inheriting Ole's tactics and trying to hang on to them. But somehow, things went downhill from there, and now especially this season.

It doesn't make sense that Ten Hag both was responsible for that uphill trajectory and is also an idiot who knows nothing about tactics and player development. But United's squad is arguably stronger right now, and Ten Hag if anything should know it better, and the PL as well.

So what changed? I would argue that the principal issue is that Ten Hag is having to adjust to playing a second-string defence of players that don't fit proactive high-line defending, therefore had to adjust his approach - and in the process messes up all aspects of his intended defensive and attacking play and patterns.

That's obviously on Ten Hag. Well, he can't help that United's squad is still so disjointed in its depth, that's due to United flipflopping on style for a decade now. But he probably could have managed the current situation better from a tactical viewpoint. That's not a reason to fire him though. I would say that he needs to be given time to train and play games with his intended first team. If things still suck then, then yes, time to go. But sacking Ten Hag because he isn't handling an absurd injury crisis well with this disjointed squad doesn't sound sensible to me.
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I'm not 100% sure but wasn't it the case even last season that the defensive line was deep? Proved by stats etc.
 
Trigg said:
These players are a joke. Ten Hag will end up losing his job, the manager always does when it gets to this point but its utterly depressing how much influence these shit, selfish, egotistical footballers have.
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Most players are all this and worse, but OUR players are backstabbing and have the ear of the Glazers.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
He's lost the dressing room like every manager before him.

Part of me hopes the club brings in a Conte or Simeone when Ten Hag eventually gets sacked. See how the players like a real taskmaster.
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Rangnick was supposed to the taskmaster type too, wouldn't take bullshit etc. They made short work of him.

This squad is untouchable. They hold all the toxic power.
 
Nicoseth said:
Because he is a driven, determined manager who did a brilliant job last season. He took us from nowhere to 3rd and a trophy as well as another final. He is clearly a perfectionist who is obsessed with being the best, even though our performances are far from that right now.
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So if you love him because he did a brilliant job last season - shouldn’t you be critical of the poor job this season? Instead of just hand-waving and dismissing the valid stuff people are saying about him/the team now?
 
UnitedSofa said:
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100% this.

The Glazers are and always have been the problem, and as for the stories about dressing room unrest, any player moaning about ten Hag is a player we need to get rid of, I don't care who it is.
 
Fortitude said:
That's unacceptable. That must be unprecedented.
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Not really, I guess it happens at times at other clubs but only for short periods. He openly said last year when we had a packed schedule that training was the homework and the game was the test, as in they had too many injuries and too many games to train properly, so training consisted of mostly conditioning and watching videos/doing analysis/discussing game plan, and then it was on the players to implement what they had talked about during the game. There was no drills done in training or anything like that to learn or practice how to do the stuff they were talking about. So of course you've got players like McTomminay who just can't unless they're shown.
 
Shane88 said:
Rangnick was supposed to the taskmaster type too, wouldn't take bullshit etc. They made short work of him.

This squad is untouchable. They hold all the toxic power.
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They are not, its not that complex. The whole culture of the club is toxic and some more need to be shipped out for sure. But we have a squad full of international players, it really should be possible to get them to perform better. Can anyone tell me what ETH is trying to do? Why he signed such a limited player as Antony and then plays him every week, then you wonder why other players are losing faith in him. The guy is lower premier league at best.
 
TsuWave said:
So if you love him because he did a brilliant job last season - shouldn’t you be critical of the poor job this season? Instead of just hand-waving and dismissing the valid stuff people are saying about him/the team now?
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It's so weird, people talk about our managers like they're a pet or their baby. So sweet, cute and can't do anything wrong. Just ignoring the fact he's shat himself for the 6th time today.
 
The writing was on the wall for him when he banned ketchup and chips from the canteen.
 
Shane88 said:
This squad is untouchable. They hold all the toxic power.
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The squad kept changing over the past decade with the same results. Including a lot of players ETH knew and wanted. I don't buy the idea that it is untouchable or toxic. Because it has been touched and changed. A lot. But yesterday's new great player with the right attitude is today's toxic disaster.

There are structual problems at the club leading to problems on the pitch and when a team underforms issues like complaints, loss of confidence and loss of confidence in the manager occur. It's not built into the squad permanently.
 
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Amir said:
The squad kept changing over the past decade with the same results. Including a lot of players ETH know and wanted. I don't buy the idea that it is untouchavle or toxic. Because it has been touched and changed. A lot. Buy yesterday new great player with the right attitude is today's toxic disaster.

There are structual problems at the club leading to problems on the pitch and when a team underforms issues like complaints, loss of confidence and loss of confidence in the manager occur. It's not built into the squad permanently.
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The year will be 2040, all of our current players will have been retired and our fans will still be frothing at their mouths how "these toxic players" cost Moyes and all the subsequent managers thier jobs :lol:
 
duffer said:
As a Chelsea fan I think that I am qualified as an expert in this kinda scenario. The media does seem to be circling in on him now which I haven't really noticed until the past week.

You've got some (on paper) easy fixtures coming up which could work in, or against the manager's favour. Get a few wins and the pressure is off but drop points to the likes of Fulham and Luton and he could be toast.
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Yep, we've been here before as well mate, it's just a matter of time from this point. The criticisms come quicker and every time the manager speaks he says something else that people can hold over him. It would probably be within his best interests to get hammered in the next two games and get sacked now than drag this out until Christmas.
 
red_de_pologne said:
He won't turn around anything if the players give up, but to me it looks like some of them are still behind him, he should focus on them, and luckily this is a favourable set of games on paper
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Let's hope so. I still think that we will have a game where everything goes 'right'... Rashford destroys a team and scores a couple of crackers, Rasmus has a stormer and notches, Mount shows his quality and smashes one in. I do, genuinely do think this will happen... at some point. Better happen soon though.
 
Shane88 said:
Rangnick was supposed to the taskmaster type too, wouldn't take bullshit etc. They made short work of him.

This squad is untouchable. They hold all the toxic power.
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Most of the dickheads are gone? What if they genuinely have fair complaints about his management style? Have you considered that possibility?
 
crossy1686 said:
Most of the dickheads are gone? What if they genuinely have fair complaints about his management style? Have you considered that possibility?
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There around 9 or more players still floating about from the previous two managers.
 
He needs to get back to being hard to beat and counter attacking to build confidence until the ownership situation becomes clearer.

His pressing makes us to vulnerable and we don't have the attackers to exploit our turnovers.

I hope he can turn it around but the situation (results and performances) cannot continue. For his sake he needs to qualify us from champions league group which is very doable and gain some momentum in league before a tricky December.
 
VP89 said:
There around 9 or more players still floating about from the previous two managers.
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Doesn't mean they're dickheads though does it? We had some proper whoppers in the form of Pogba, Lingard, Henderson, Bailly etc. They've all gone and the squad looks more harmonious. I'm not saying there's not a couple left but the manager made sure that anyone that was full of shit was shown the door right away.
 
crossy1686 said:
Doesn't mean they're dickheads though does it? We had some proper whoppers in the form of Pogba, Lingard, Henderson, Bailly etc. They've all gone and the squad looks more harmonious. I'm not saying there's not a couple left but the manager made sure that anyone that was full of shit was shown the door right away.
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Who is using the dickhead word?

Im saying if there are a lot of players left from the previous regime where they chronically underperformed and had a weak mentality, it's going to be very difficult to lift the squad when the going gets tough again.

9 weak minded players is more than enough to have them doubting everything all over again. Even 5 is.

Note the article says its some players starting to doubt. Go figure.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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This is as it should be.

As a club we often do stupid things. But it would be particularly stupid to allow a failed football structure to make the expensive decision to change managers immediately before a new football structure is introduced, who may have an entirely different opinion on the direction the club should be moving or which type of manager should be hired.

If new decision makers will be coming in soon the long term upside is in parking any major decisions for them to make. Even if that means we suffer in the short term.
 
VP89 said:
Who is using the dickhead word?

Im saying if there are a lot of players left from the previous regime where they chronically underperformed and had a weak mentality, it's going to be very difficult to lift the squad when the going gets tough again.

9 weak minded players is more than enough to have them doubting everything all over again. Even 5 is.

Not the article says its some players starting to doubt. Go figure.
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Agreed, and more. The players are the key to being the fans' heroes. But your heroes are never your friends, or care about you significantly. But when they are not even trying, when they are being toxic, then it is debatable whether they should remain the ones you look up to.
 
Writing seems to be on the wall for him. The players have turned on him and the new guy that comes through the door will have the same thing happen to him given enough time in the job because he's either a) too much of a disciplinarian like EtH or b) too much of a friend of the players, like Ole.

Pick one of the two reasons for this group of players to throw the new guy under the bus.

I have a feeling that some of the more influential players in the squad, players who can't be sold because of their supposed hierarchy in the squad/club/fanbase, are among those causing problems as soon as things get tough, which will mean that we'll have this issue until these players retire.
 
cyberman said:
I understand gripes players may have but falling out with the manager because he wants to sell Maguire is fecking ridiculous. Clubs can sell players.
That club needs a clear out, snakes wanting another manager to they can last another 18 months and drag us down even further
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Probably not an issue with selling him, more in his handling of him.
 
sullydnl said:
This is as it should be.

As a club we often do stupid things. But it would be particularly stupid to allow a failed football structure to make the expensive decision to change managers immediately before a new football structure is introduced, who may have an entirely different opinion on the direction the club should be moving or which type of manager should be hired.

If new decision makers will be coming in soon the long term upside is in parking any major decisions for them to make. Even if that means we suffer in the short term.
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Unless we win our next few games it'll be an interim until the ownership is resolved. If the players don't believe in his methods or he isn't able to explain what he wants from them then when results fo south things turn toxic. You can't just ignore a team that has no leadership.

There's lots of excuses made in the thread but the reality is the teams form is a collective failure. We can only judge each staff member based on their remit so yes the structure needs to change and yes certain players need moving on, however, ETH is failing in his coaching/tactical role right now.

If he had any sense he'd focus on just making us solid to show he can instil some improvement into the team. Instead he continues to leave us open and exposed tactically. He's failing on the basics so he doesn't deserve the financial and time commitment to spearhead a major project.
 
pocco said:
Probably not an issue with selling him, more in his handling of him.
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I didn't realise that Maguire was not an adult capable of handling himself just fine. But yeah Maguire got his wish in not moving to West Ham, while Ten Hag got a player ready to put his life on the line for his club. Win-win.
 
crossy1686 said:
Not really, I guess it happens at times at other clubs but only for short periods. He openly said last year when we had a packed schedule that training was the homework and the game was the test, as in they had too many injuries and too many games to train properly, so training consisted of mostly conditioning and watching videos/doing analysis/discussing game plan, and then it was on the players to implement what they had talked about during the game. There was no drills done in training or anything like that to learn or practice how to do the stuff they were talking about. So of course you've got players like McTomminay who just can't unless they're shown.
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In the thick of it at the end of seasons just staying fit and very light work is the norm, but my saying it would be unprecedented is if they’ve not done technical work since April. These players aren’t technical marvels in the first place and need as much work in that department as possible. Pep’s sides are already ridiculous technically, but you can’t imagine him ever forgoing technical work until the aforementioned run-in.

The news coming out is putting us in an even worse light that imagined.
 
crossy1686 said:
Next year then I guess
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Yeah reports yesterday were that it will take till next year to finalise - which is a terrifying thought if we will simply do nothing until then. Surely, if they are that confident a deal will happen, they can have some conversations about how to proceed for now.

I dread to think where we will be after our Nov/Dec fixtures - I just can't see any way in which they can just sit and let this fester whilst they wait to line their pockets. It's a massive middle finger to the supporters really to expect everyone to keep paying for tickets whilst they let the football team crumble for a few more months, all in the name of the Glazers making a few hunderd mill each.

But even if I humour it for a minute - the Glazers are still majority shareholders if he does buy 25%. Are they honestly just going to hand it all over to him? That must be unprecedented in any business. Are they absolutely sure that this deal will go ahead? Every other aspect of this sale has took a very long time, how do they know this isn't going to drag till the summer or longer? It feels to me like they're just kicking the can down the road here. Probably to save a few quid on sacking him now instead of the summer.

Think us, the supporters, are about to get shafted big time.
 
Fortitude said:
In the thick of it at the end of seasons just staying fit and very light work is the norm, but my saying it would be unprecedented is if they’ve not done technical work since April. These players aren’t technical marvels in the first place and need as much work in that department as possible. Pep’s sides are already ridiculous technically, but you can’t imagine him ever forgoing technical work until the aforementioned run-in.

The news coming out is putting us in an even worse light that imagined.
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The weird thing about this is that actually technical sessions should be lighter work than fitness sessions etc. Throwing a bunch of balls on the ground and enjoying some trickery should actually be better than most other sessions in the run in.

The only reasons to not do this a lot would be if there is a feeling that the players are not fit enough and have to build up fitness, or that they really have to do lots of tactical work.

Both seems plausible to be honest as the ongoing discussions about the workrate indicate the first issue and the discussion about a lack of clearly visible style of play points to the latter.

Yet I have a hard time believing that no technical sessions are done at all and believe this is someone overexaggerating.

But if that's true, than it's a sackable offense.
 
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