They didn't win, but they were clearly on an upwards trajectory. He made them do the final steps, but despite their streak without titles it wasn't EtH who completely revived Ajax (like necessary with United), most of that was done before.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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ETH thinks the execution was very good though.
At least he was scoring goals though.
Revisionism, under ETH the team literally were playing games trying to setup chances for Ronaldo to walk the ball into the net and he was rubbish, fact is he declined very quickly similar to what we are seeing with Casemiro this season.
I agree. It is a mess above him. The sooner this partial takeover happens and some competence is recruited, the better.
After those two losses to Brighton and Brentford at the start of last season, I think both ETH and the club panicked.
They bought a "proven" player in Casemiro and one that ETH thought he could trust in Anthony.
Both, I believe, will prove to be epic fails.
He thought it was good in the first half, and in the first half we had better chances than City did
I think we mostly agree. We just deep dived into what really stands behind "sophisticated" phrase.
On the bolded part, it goes without saying, I am just arguing the impact of those Martinez/Shaw getting back to the team. The reason I am sceptical is because opposition is setting up differently against us now - the difference is our GK+back 4 is not being pressed, but everyone else is easily marked and we have no way to get the ball forward as all passing lanes are very tightly blocked.
It is very easy to play against us now and any system that relies on defender playing the perfect pass is going to fail miserably.
Whether he is upto the job or not is academic for us as there really isn't no-one streets ahead of him who is available.
Until we get a DOF and start planning on a style of play, academy blueprint, tactics for the next 3-5 years then it's pointless sacking him as the next manager will just swing the steering wheel in another direction he wants to move us to.
we have to at least give him until the end of the season - even though I'm not convinced the writing's not on the wall already. If he hasn't got any tangible improvements after 2 years then you can say that's fair enough if his time at the club ends.
He’s done. I think everyone here knows that in their own heart but most don’t want to be seen calling for the sack for yet another manager.
No, but it was Ten Hag who propelled them, and then maintained that success when they were getting stripped of some top class players.
i mean no point in sacking him now. Still the same group of shit players who will just play their same damn way knowing they are untouchable.
The system of recruitment at the club is well documented. He has a veto for all players nominated for acquisition. Murtagh, the scouts, ETH can all nominate. ETH has veto power. At the very least, he didn’t veto Antony, Wout, etc. It is probable that he had a hand in nominating Antony, Licha, Onana because he previously managed them. We can’t say recruitment is 100% his fault because he doesn’t have absolute power, but with the power of veto, he is clearly somewhat culpable.
It's like he realised he's gone too far when criticising the players so now he's just talking shit to try and get them back onside.
I didn't say anything of the sort, you asked someone else what they had done beforehand and I responded that they were close despite being so young so he took over at a good time and then took them to another level. I guess a reasonable argument for him is that he definitely didn't take us over at a good time so it was unrealistic for him to impose his style of play on this side so quickly (it took him 4 years to make Ajax dominant domestically) but he did eventually get there.
Oh completely agree that it needs to be someone else making the football decisions but when is that gonna happen
Mount and Antony are 100% his players. He wanted them, he chased them, he said over the summer Mount was the 'complete' midfielder when asked about his interest. He didn't give a feck how much they cost, he just wanted more players. He'd have spent over a billion if the money was there.
That last paragraph is what Erik needs to do but where is the evidence he sees any problem with either of them is my concern
No, my apologies it shouldn't have been phrased as "you" but to the other poster.
He's probably realized they're weak as piss mentally.
Apparently he said he sticks with Rashford because he doesn't want to abandon him during this time of struggles according to The Talk of the Devils podcast.
It doesn't help when your manager sets you up to be shit. It's his job to get the best out of them regardless of what he thinks. He can ship one or two out every summer if there's a replacement to be had. He kicked AWB to the curb when he first arrived, then he had to reintroduce him back in when he realised he wasn't going to get a new RB, same thing is happening with Maguire now, he'll probably do it with Sancho when he's desperate for his job to be saved. You can't just decide you're done with a bunch of players because you want new one's yesterday.
Jeez that is grim to hear and makes him sound quite pitiful which is sad to see. This is exactly why I would happily see a new recruitment team sack him and find someone who will drop them
How far has the club fallen that we have been ‘pretty good’ because we were hanging on for dear life against our rivals?
Why is the standard not that ‘pretty good’ refers to the team dominating Man City?
These are the standards set from to bottom.
See you are still clinging to the ‘he got a massive 1 point more’ argument, I pointed out it is really skewed due to the fact we secured CL football so early that season. End of the day it was a far more comfortable top 4 finish than last year, and also got us higher in the standings.
I am however willing to bet we don’t get to 75 points this season. Fancy a bet?
I also do not think overplaying players is going to be a great argument here. We played our strongest team against Nottingham with a 3-0 lead last year.
No, I'm not clinging on to that. I'm citing he competed in 3 cups, plus the top 4 hunt. He finished a higher tally yes, but he also won a cup and reached another final. Ole didn't.
Ole's second season was not better than Ten Hag's first - as much as you want to literally make shit up that it was.
I mean you can tell Antony is not good enough for a club like United without having an exact replacement in mind. Saying "unless you can name the replacement, stfu" means ETH is the best possible man for the job and nobody could do better. It shouldn't be up to the fans to find the suitable candidate, it's exactly why it's not an easy call to make. What is easy to see however is that we don't look good on the pitch and haven't for a long time. Excuses as to why that's the case are very, very unconvincing.
We played the same amount of cup games in both seasons. Got further in EL but exited League Cup and FA Cup earlier.
So basically in terms of trophies the only real difference is Ole wasn’t lucky enough to draw Nottingham in the semis and got knocked out by City (which ETH would have been knocked out by as well).
Maybe he shouldn't have overplayed them last season ever thought of that. Many of us said then if he's not careful this will lead to burnout and players getting injured
He's almost bought a whole new first XI - Mount, Antony, Martinez, Casemiro, Amrabat, Hojlund, Onana, Eriksen not to mention the loan signings so this isn't really an excuse.
If he's still playing yesterday's players then that's on him more than anything else. Why aren't his players playing? And why did he not prioritize the signings correctly? And the players he inherited weren't all garbage, he had some decent players to work with (Rashford, Bruno, Garnacho, Varane, Sancho etc.)
Ole got really unlucky with the draws, was drawn against City multiple times and Ten Hag would've lost those as well. I'd just focus on the league performances instead.
He was also tremendously lucky not to play any away games infront of a crowd.
Do you know what happened to that away record the minute stadiums reopened?
Nah you're just trying to excuse a lack of depth of thought there. You wouldn't suggest playing 10 men instead of playing Antony, you'd suggest a replacement and why they'd be better.
It's very simple, if you think a manager could do a better job than ETH, then name them and explain why. If you can't do that, then your opinion that he should be sacked is worthless. Ironically, not being able to name a better replacement is what actually means "ETH is the best possible man for the job and nobody could do better". If you don't have an alternative, then you don't have a solution, only a reaction.
All this arguing and comparing facts and figures is a waste of time.
No manager comes back from such a sustained period of terrible football and results. This is dead in the water. For all the logical thinkers, this is the only logic that matters.
He had the summer to try and rectify where things were going but it’s clear the players can’t execute whatever it is that he wants. He had the chance to get in a top CB, CM and try and make the team more physical and solid and he went after the wrong players and fluffed the big chance to change the ships course.
No manager comes back from this, and we only need to look at Leicester to see the damage that comes from being passive and doing nothing.
All we are accomplishing now is eroding confidence, lowering standards and wasting everyone’s time.
It hasn’t worked, there is no point in wasting more time. It never works in the modern game.
No manager comes back from such a sustained period of terrible football and results. This is dead in the water. For all the logical thinkers, this is the only logic that matters.
He had the summer to try and rectify where things were going but it’s clear the players can’t execute whatever it is that he wants. He had the chance to get in a top CB, CM and try and make the team more physical and solid and he went after the wrong players and fluffed the big chance to change the ships course.
No manager comes back from this, and we only need to look at Leicester to see the damage that comes from being passive and doing nothing.
All we are accomplishing now is eroding confidence, lowering standards and wasting everyone’s time.
It hasn’t worked, there is no point in wasting more time. It never works in the modern game.
Yeah you are absolutely spot on he should have been told by recruitment team (use that term loosely) that he was not having so much control over transfers. He has had far too much say and now look at the mess. Really hope IF Ratcliffe thing materialises he has all of that transfer power taken away immediately. Also that Jim takes a ruthless view on his performance this season.
Precisely. We beat Gerrard’s Villa, Burnley, Charlton and Nottingham to get to League Cup final. It was an incredibly easy run.
Tbh watching us last season basically I have no idea who was supposed to do what anymore, especially when we're playing well so it's simply impossible for me to tell you how we'd play when our first choice player are back.
However one thing about this kind of football I've noticed watching City is they always have multiple good technical dribblers who serve as ball carriers to stretch the play or draw the defenders . They're very good at keeping and running with the ball. They're also very good at chance creation. Like KDB, Silva, Grealish, Mahrez and Foden. Even their FBs are very good as ball carriers. Sometime you can see their CBs doing that as well. Then they have an excellent CDM who is capable of very accurate long passes to find runners running behind the defense. Like Rodri. Who is very crucial both offensively and defensively in their system. Their players keep running with or without the ball and exchanging short quick passes to the sides to create situational numerical advantage. So it's basically impossible to mark all of them. You often see them have one or even two attackers more than the defenders at one point especially at both wings.
Atm imo what we lack is some good ball carriers and those good long and vertical passing. Imo Antony and Mount both signed to serve as our ball carriers and chances creation. Then Casemiro as Rodri. Excellent DM who can keep the ball really well with excellent long passing and can drive the ball forward as well. Casemiro has unfortunately turned shit this season and nobody has an idea why though.
So with my very limited knowledge imo in order to play well again I think we need Casemiro to somehow find his top form back asap. His position is absolutely crucial in this system. Then Mount to quickly adapt. Antony to create more chances. Hojlund to be better at finding space and finishing. Then Shaw and Martinez back. Both are very good passer and quite decent ball carriers imo. That's all I could say I think.
P/s: adding @OrcaFat for the discussion you know about this shit much more than me mate
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That obviously explains why every team had unbelievable away form as none of the away teams faced crowds either.
All home draws, minus the 2 leg semi V Forest.
He accepted it while he was still at United. https://www.skysports.com/football/...r-but-will-remain-in-man-utd-consultancy-role
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