we were struggling for goals but that "style" at least ensured we always had excellent defensive records in league, as unwatchable as it was. you won't see anything like that this season. we will continue to struggle with scoring, but other clubs will continue to score for fun against us. the worst possible combination.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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we were struggling for goals but that "style" at least ensured we always had excellent defensive records in league, as unwatchable as it was. you won't see anything like that this season. we will continue to struggle with scoring, but other clubs will continue to score for fun against us. the worst possible combination.
I would not assume what he was hired to bring. Also your last point is ridiculous because he already said how he wants us to play and its not how we played under Ole.
He wasn't the manager. When he became manager he won things.
It's not about considering. It's about questioning why you think Rose will be an improvement beyond reasonable doubt. And there is extremely little to go by since he failed at Dortmund which isn't remotely the level of United.
Ten Hag said it was tactical, he prefers Maguire on the right because we play too many long balls with him on the left apparently:
“When you play City they will press and play with Rapha [on the right] and Maguire on the left, that can cause problems and you end up only playing long balls,” Ten Hag said.
He [Maguire] is, for me, better on the right, especially against teams that press high.”
https://www.unitedinfocus.com/news/...-about-controversial-raphael-varane-decision/
We did play fairly well last season. The beginning of a season is always tricky and it was like 2,3 matches so imo we can't have any definite conclusion based on only those matches. And if my memory serves me well we did pretty fine except against Wolves and Brighton I think.
Regarding the sophisticated part I'm no expert but tbh watching us under ETH I have no idea who's supposed to do what anymore, even if we're playing really well. And imo we're trying to play the same football that City and Arsenal do. Looking at the time and money required for Pep and Arteta to implement their football it's quite safe to say this football is very complicated and demanding I think.
Anyway we'll see once we have our first choices back I guess.
He was the manager for a period of time within the five years that Ajax didn’t win the league, he did not join after they’d not won it for five years. Google it.
it is absolutely about considering, I think Rose could be an improvement based on the way his teams play football and his successes in football. Just saying he failed at Dortmund is again dismissing someone without a fair shake so we stick with Ten Hag. I’ll ask again; would you not go for Klopp since he imploded at Dortmund, or someone like Emery who is doing well but got the sack at PSG and Arsenal.
The whole back 4 is out. Any team would struggle with having to deal with that.
Probably, seen some online comments referreing to OT the theatre of rust etc etc..
Joel and Avram meet ETH for the first time:
J/A: Right, we'll give you decent yearly wages, enough to feed your children and whatever wives you may have. We'll also essentially leave you in charge of transfers (there's a budget there, but - yeah - spending hundreds of millions on players over a couple of transfer windows won't be a problem). Also, we recommend that you abandon your cue ball look and go for a ponytail, regardless of how little hair you actually have.
ETH: Yesh, shounds good (I shall keep the Pep Guardiola is my idol look, though, not leasht becaushe Pep Guardiola actually ish my idol).
J/A: Fine, whatever. But there is one thing you absolutely will not do, and that is to replicate your pretty boy Ajax football here in Miami. What? Oh, yeah, Manchester - whatever. You need to keep the DNA in mind. The DNA!
ETH: Yesh...shure. But what ish the DNA?
J/A: The DNA is the DNA!
ETH: Sho...okay. What if I buy playersh I know but don't ushe them to play good football, would that be okay?
J/A: Sure. Whatever.
More likely, we'll have to spend £200M more to get those players and we'll still get trounced by top 6 teams.
I don't think there will be progression.
At this point though, I don't think sacking him will make any difference.
We need to make changes up top first and work our way down. That's how MCFC and Newcastle have done things.
MCFC's final piece of the jigsaw puzzle was Guardiola. I'm sure Newcastle will bring in a top class manager in the new year or 2.
We have Directors at the top who are terrible at running a football club. They can't get rid of deadwood. They over pay for every single player we bring in. They bring in players who do not fit the profile we are looking for.
We over pay on wages. We refuse to run down contracts of players who are deadwood and instead, we renew their contacts.
I think ETH should stay, but things have to change at the top, before looking at ETH's replacement.
I suppose you think that 3-0 is a good result. Perhaps we should celebrate?
A hopeless 3-0 loss to any team is a bad result.
The crazy thing is that MCFC took their foot of the gas after going up 2 goals and they still managed to score a 3rd goal.
Today was another humiliating day at OT.
I was happy with the ETH appointment but it’s looking increasingly likely we will be looking for a new manager next year.
The players look lost,some cant be arsed, out of form and waiting for the next man to come in to take over.
We’ll get another manager bounce and it will be a case of rinse and repeat again.
The players look lost,some cant be arsed, out of form and waiting for the next man to come in to take over.
We’ll get another manager bounce and it will be a case of rinse and repeat again.
It's just the same story isn't it.
It's like we're trapped in one of those horror movies set in an old mansion where the doomed guests keep ending up in the same room whichever direction they go. Just when you think you've escaped the ghosts of MacGuire and Lindeloff they're somehow right in front of you again, clinking their chains and lumbering slowly forwards.
Ten Hag has gone the way of all his predecessors, rambling like a madman and dancing about under the shadow of a swinging axe. Bashing at the door of the crypt is the walking corpse of Johnny Evans, freshly risen and snarling in defiance. Above the mantelpiece a huge portrait of Alex Ferguson seems to be weeping blood.
It's like we're trapped in one of those horror movies set in an old mansion where the doomed guests keep ending up in the same room whichever direction they go. Just when you think you've escaped the ghosts of MacGuire and Lindeloff they're somehow right in front of you again, clinking their chains and lumbering slowly forwards.
Ten Hag has gone the way of all his predecessors, rambling like a madman and dancing about under the shadow of a swinging axe. Bashing at the door of the crypt is the walking corpse of Johnny Evans, freshly risen and snarling in defiance. Above the mantelpiece a huge portrait of Alex Ferguson seems to be weeping blood.
A massive problem we have is that our two "best" players, Rashford and Bruno are not consistent technically sound footballers. They produce magic in moments but they're not consistent.
With a manager that wants patterns of play and control over games, these types of players just dont fit. Managers like Pep won't stand for it. They would rather have control of the game for 90 minutes by consistently creating opportunities and moving the ball and keeping the ball. With Bruno and rashford that will never ever happen. They'll try something stupid or play a shite pass which kills all momentum too often. If you ask them to play a simple pass 10 times, they may get it right 8 times. Thats not good enough. It gives the opposition chances to break on us.
In brunos case especially, he produces enough magic and chances to make him basically undroppable. But even at his best he gives it away too often. And in games he's not producing moments, we have no control over the games. Its not a reliable way to build a team and a style of play
None of this is helped by a weak manager
On top of that, the manager is in week to week firefighting mode. He has no idea how he wants us to play or who to start. Playing McTominay and Maguire because of a couple of half decent performances is a huge step backwards, and something a mid table team does when they're throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks. There's no clear plan or style of play. Ten hag has no idea what he's doing and looks lost. On top of that, he shows preferential treatment to players he likes and chastises players he doesn't. If you're gonna act this way, you need performances to back up your decisions or you will lose the dressing room
With a manager that wants patterns of play and control over games, these types of players just dont fit. Managers like Pep won't stand for it. They would rather have control of the game for 90 minutes by consistently creating opportunities and moving the ball and keeping the ball. With Bruno and rashford that will never ever happen. They'll try something stupid or play a shite pass which kills all momentum too often. If you ask them to play a simple pass 10 times, they may get it right 8 times. Thats not good enough. It gives the opposition chances to break on us.
In brunos case especially, he produces enough magic and chances to make him basically undroppable. But even at his best he gives it away too often. And in games he's not producing moments, we have no control over the games. Its not a reliable way to build a team and a style of play
None of this is helped by a weak manager
On top of that, the manager is in week to week firefighting mode. He has no idea how he wants us to play or who to start. Playing McTominay and Maguire because of a couple of half decent performances is a huge step backwards, and something a mid table team does when they're throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks. There's no clear plan or style of play. Ten hag has no idea what he's doing and looks lost. On top of that, he shows preferential treatment to players he likes and chastises players he doesn't. If you're gonna act this way, you need performances to back up your decisions or you will lose the dressing room
Yeah can't say I agree with his choice
Other top teams solve this issue by having other top players in the side.
So, for the people that claim he doesn't have a clue, out of his depth, that they watch League 2 and National League teams change play style better than us, do you genuinely think Ten Hag is a worse manager and coach than whatever no mark runs those teams? Does that really seem like the most likely answer for you? Or could it maybe be that the footballing structure in the club is broken, it does not provide a platform for a manager to succeed, and that maybe it's not completely Ten Hag's fault?
1000% agree. I've mentioned it for some time now, we lack pace, real pace across the squad.
Varane was healthy. It was tactics, ETH even said so.
we do know. Ten hag said he started evans and maguire over varane for "tactical" reasons
All clubs have injuries, it's a weak excuse. If a few injuries cause a complete collapse then something is wrong anyway.
Klopp was a proven winner and didn't sacked. And I wouldn't take Emery either, he doesn't fit our ethos.
Ten hag was playing beautiful football at Ajax and isn't right now. The point bring, playing well at another club in a farmers league isn't an indication of that being the case in the hostseat here. Not until they get a long time to fix the shit.
I’ve never wanted him sacked and I was hugely optimistic when he joined but the recruitment, the tactical decisions and in game management are just really poor currently. We also look no closer at all to a game plan and identity.
I want to blame the owners, I want to blame the rotten cronies they’ve put in place but when you see what Ange has done, it at least makes me question whether we’ve ever hired the right manager in the 10 years post Fergie. There are at least a few good examples of managers coming in and overhauling a team to play great football in a short amount of time.
Largely though, I don’t think we can move forward with Rashford and Bruno. They are actually holding us back and ETH will die on that sword.
I want to blame the owners, I want to blame the rotten cronies they’ve put in place but when you see what Ange has done, it at least makes me question whether we’ve ever hired the right manager in the 10 years post Fergie. There are at least a few good examples of managers coming in and overhauling a team to play great football in a short amount of time.
Largely though, I don’t think we can move forward with Rashford and Bruno. They are actually holding us back and ETH will die on that sword.
It's not we have an unprecedentedly level of injures at the start of this season, its not a few injuries.
Liverpool struggled similarly when it happened to them, also when you already have a compromised squad the issue is exacerbated (e.g when your backup players are ones you already know are not fit for purpose)
You guys find everything embarrassing but the shite the manager's serving
Probably talking about off field matters knowing how the club is just a soulless cash cow these days
One of the things that is getting overlooked for me is ETH is making us worse by trying to implement his ideas.
he started last year trying to play his way… and we got hammered twice.
He then quickly reverted to a 4231… and in the main stumbled on a less than perfect team that was doing alright.
and now he has had another summer to spend and implement his ideas, and is making us worse (albeit injuries have massively contributed)
had he of just played the same 4231 system since game 1 this season. Bruno at 10… rashford at inside left forward… a RW on the right..
double pivot midfield of eriksen or Amrabat alongside Casemiro depending on opposition.
actual fullbacks when available, playing as fullbacks, not as weird hybrids.
all with the benefit of a proper No 9 who looks promising… we would likely be a couple of wins better off.
he started last year trying to play his way… and we got hammered twice.
He then quickly reverted to a 4231… and in the main stumbled on a less than perfect team that was doing alright.
and now he has had another summer to spend and implement his ideas, and is making us worse (albeit injuries have massively contributed)
had he of just played the same 4231 system since game 1 this season. Bruno at 10… rashford at inside left forward… a RW on the right..
double pivot midfield of eriksen or Amrabat alongside Casemiro depending on opposition.
actual fullbacks when available, playing as fullbacks, not as weird hybrids.
all with the benefit of a proper No 9 who looks promising… we would likely be a couple of wins better off.
ETH must shake things up now, no more favourism of certain underperforming players. Next match against Newcastle in the League Cup I expect him to bench the so called "elite players/stars", and give some of the young guns a chance to stake their claim and show some grit, determination and team efforts - and whoever performs stays on for the next match regardless of that meaning Bruno and/or Rashford on the bench going forward.
Im hoping to see something like this in the next match;
Onana
AWB - Varane - Maguire - Reguilon
Mount - Casemiro - Mejbri/Mainoo
Pellistri - Hojlund - Garnacho
Im hoping to see something like this in the next match;
Onana
AWB - Varane - Maguire - Reguilon
Mount - Casemiro - Mejbri/Mainoo
Pellistri - Hojlund - Garnacho
The other thing with Klopp is he didn't abandon his principles. It's also the reason why even Liverpool fans were excited about him even when initially results weren't going their way, they could see the Klopp dna already running through the team. Ten Hag has abandoned what made him an exciting manager. I was happy for him to have a couple seasons where we don't win anything or struggle a little if I could see we were trying to implement the traits of his successful Ajax side, instead he's reverted to pragmatic football that is neither exciting nor succeeding. That was not what I signed up for.
How can you after facing dross like Forest, Palace, Brentford and Wolves, plus Brighton and City be trailing for 10x longer than you’ve been leading?
Yet another awful stat in a long list of damning stats. Pure delusion to believe he can turn it around.
I should've phrased my post better so people like you don't jump on it.
No I don't think it's a good result. A good result would've been a win. But that was never happening, especially when you look at the lineup Ten Hag chose. We had a couple of early chances, when we won the ball high up the field. But the key was to convert those chances. Once we squandered those transition opportunities and City got a grip on the game, it was pretty much over.
Those transition chances that we screwed up was predictable, when ETH insists on sticking to the same players who has been screwing up those chances all season. Hojlund, Rashford and McTominay were all hopeless in making the right decisions. McTominay's shot that was straight at Emerson was typical of a player with inferior technique and inferior confidence playing against a much better side. Hit and hope. No quality. There was also one where he opted for a scuffed shot instead of bringing his team mates in. Hojlund should've done better on that missed backpass by City. Could've also gone down and forced the referee to make a decision. Rashford was...Rashford.
So, under the circumstances, with the way we were set up, the players out there on the field, the fact that we had a few chances to make a game of it was an unexpected positive.
People gloss over this. Ragnick reportedly was also let go of his consultancy role because Ten Hag didn't want to work with him on transfers. Yet when you mention how Ten Hag has spent 400m's to be outplayed by Sheffield, you're told that he's immune from criticism regarding that
edit - Sheffield =/= Luton
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I'm expecting a poster on the forum suggesting that we sack the manager to have an idea as to who we replace the manager with. That's the difference between it being a rational opinion or a knee jerk reaction.
It might be a positive if we were Luton
So why on earth was he appointed would be my response to that,like I said yesterday he has to show he has the balls to drop Bruno & Rashford. I also agree with others who say it can't be these leeches that appoint another manager.
It's not "unprecedentedly", for God's sake. All our managers dealt with similar injury crises if not worse, even Ferguson. LVG was playing ton of kids with no zero experience at one point because he had no players left.
I dont believe the "a new manager wont change anything" claims at all, yesterday was yet another embarassing result for a team with a manager who refuses to drop underperforming players, plays bizarre starting XIs, and makes bizarre subs that happen to late to change anything.
The poor performances we are seeing are down to the manager, Neville can dit and blame the Glazers all he wants but they dont pick the team or decide the tactics and subs used so are not at fault for what we are seeing from our team.
Man Utd need a manager who can come in an give the side a style of play and an identity and not one who after 16 months in the job has come out and said he cant implement the style he used at Ajax and was brought in to implement here despite spending 400m+ on players.
The poor performances we are seeing are down to the manager, Neville can dit and blame the Glazers all he wants but they dont pick the team or decide the tactics and subs used so are not at fault for what we are seeing from our team.
Man Utd need a manager who can come in an give the side a style of play and an identity and not one who after 16 months in the job has come out and said he cant implement the style he used at Ajax and was brought in to implement here despite spending 400m+ on players.
Doesn't matter if you would or you wouldn't, you're probably wrong about a lot of things as we all are. The majority wanted ETH and look where we are.
A few points here.
Firstly, we played quite ok for a few months last season and peaked against Barca/Newcastle win in the cup final. Imagine taking out Martinez and Shaw from that team - no doubt our team would have suffered from that, but the drop would not be as significant to take us to this season performances (rock bottom) level. Applying the same logic, once Martinez and Shaw are back, it will definitely help us to play actual football, but will not be enough to make us competitive (aiming for top 4). This is because our game is still too reliant on individuals rather than a system in which players know what they are supposed to be doing. I get exactly the opposite feeling watching us play. We have moved to being even more individual brilliance team than ever before.
The reason for that is we have not seen a functioning midfield since last season. Apparently ETH has brought in Casemiro, Eriksen, Mount and Amrabat in last 14 months, and is not able to make it work with those players.
Our problems don't end with midfield, but they definitely start there.
Secondly, we play very simple football at the moment, so even if we are aiming for something more sophisticated, the problem I see is you don't transform from what we used to be to ManCity overnight. It seems to be this is what ETH thought will happen if he gets Mount and pushes two "midfielders" higher up. And I don't even talk about MC game here, a game in which we have given up on playing football and I don't blame ETH for that, but rather about this season picture how we are set up to play.
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