the players deserve conte.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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City weren't even amazing yesterday either, but Liverpool have that ruthless streak and could easily bop us around the park while putting 5-7 past us.
It's been created by a decade of absolute ineptitude and terrible managerial appointments.
Yeah it's a total pipe dream.
Our only options would be out-of-work managers. De Zerbi and Simeone would probably piss themselves laughing at being offered the chance to torpedo their careers.
Order of preference something like Flick > Conte > Lopetegui >>>>>>>> Potter
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I knew we were fecked the moment we went from FdJ to Rabiot to Casemiro. Then this summer we get Mount who is again completely different to FdJ. This club has no fecking clue.
Yes, so we should now try to get the next appointment right, for all we know the up and coming premier league managers mentioned could do a good job with us.
There's no issue with him looking to implement a more direct & transition focused style than he did at Ajax. A lot of excellent sides fall into the category of being more direct and transition-focused than Ajax. Klopp's PL/CL winning Liverpool team were famously more direct and transition-based than their rivals City, but it wasn't seen as some concession to not playing "a modern style of football". Fast, direct, attacking football focused on regaining possession in dangerous areas through aggressive pressing would be great.
Plus, these stylistic differences are relative. A league winning side who focus on possession are still going to be better in transition than nearly everyone else in the league, and a league winning side who are more direct and transition based are still going to be better in possession than nearly everyone else in the league. Because that's what being good enough to win titles entails.
The real problem is that whatever vision ETH had in mind for United, what he's built up to this point is a side that are quite bad at excecuting it. If we were playing a high quality version of that more direct style ETH envisioned then there'd be few complaints, but instead we're bad at being even that. And ultimately it doesn't matter what your stylistic preferences are if you can't get the team to be good at doing it.
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When Ole was sacked there were constant stories about him getting the bullet for weeks before it happened. There's literally zero noise about ETH being sacked so yeah, I think it's miles off unless we lose 3 or 4 on the bounce.
Oh if Arnold believes the club is progressing I feel so reassured
I agree a manager who has concrete evidence and a good sample size of imposing his ideas is what's important. Signing a manager on an upward trajectory is absolutely pointless because that in itself has no significance to if that manager has any viable philosophy that the club can invest in which creates a foundation for the team to win moving forward.
There's something that's very typical with managers like Erik who can't coach the players efficiently, the progress of the team is disproportionate rather than linear. So rather than going from strength to strength, it results in two seasons of decent results than an absolute drop off the following season. Ole and Mourinho fall into the same category because they are exemplary of individuals in management who don't have a vision. The danger with Eth is the drop off at this rate can be so low that if he stays the full season United will likely finish in the worst league position since SAF retired.
There's no excuse for anything under the current manager, he's shot himself in the foot and those quotes are the exact reason why he's going to fail.
Whilst I am definitely concerned about how much ETH has failed to implement anything close to a coherent style, is it any coincidence Poch is struggling at Chelsea too. Two terribly run football clubs failing on the pitch. Are they both bad managers now? Is sacking ETH the easy option? Who do we go for? People saying other managers have managed to implement their style quicker like Ange at Spurs, is it more likely Spurs are just a better run club than ours. I really had a bad feeling last year when we were buying all ETH's former players, why has the club not had players identified already. ETH should no doubt have a say but it's a massive failure on the clubs part too stick to this type of recruitment. A new manager will just bring the same problems. Panic buys are also a problem. Get a proper DOF in, get rid of the nepotism positions and run the football club properly. Revisit ETH's position once these basic things are implemented because every manager is in an untenable position until the club is run like a proper football club.
Fair enough maybe I misremembered then.
I cannot believe we are even contemplating getting rid of Ten Hag. Very handy for the Glazers of course. When things go wrong sack the manager. Let him take all the blame for problems which beset the club from top to bottom. Nothing to do with the Glazers of course! Distract, divert attention, trigger more publicity and attention (breaking news- ETH has been sacked! breaking news - top 10 bookie's favourites for new manager! breaking news - how the team will line up under managers X, Y and Z on and on ad nauseam) and then the whole sorry cycle of hope, expectations, disappointment and anger can turn again. It would be nice to think that behind the scenes serious conversations are taking place - how do you see the problems Eric? here's our view. what's next? how shall we proceed? what's the plan? That's the Dutch way. Sadly, I very much doubt that is happening and I fear the clamour for ETH's head will help only the Glazers not the club even one teeny tiny little bit.
Yeah, I was being a bit flippant. However, Antony is a poor excuse for a player. I'd quite like to see us play a midfield three that has a bit more balance. Casemiro and Mainoo as starters with one other.
Because the current club structure is atrocious. I know loads are desperate for ETH to get the sack, but I can guarantee - after a decade of incompetence - the next man is failing with this squad/structure. We all wanted Jose gone; we ended up with Ole ffs; we all wanted Ole gone; we got 8 months of Ralf. I have zero confidence that this club will make any correct decisions.
Which wish wasn't granted? He has spent 400m on players that he wanted. We have backed him (rightly so) in Ronaldo and Sancho case.
If we dont hold ETH accountable for the team he picks and the captain that he has picked, then what should be his accountability? If results continue to be like this and it doesn’t improve, how long should we back him? Glazers are easy target but the reality is that ETH had every opportunity to improve the team and it doesn’t look like that it is improving. I wanted him here over every other option because of the style of play and there is no evidence of that happening after 1.5 years of him being charge. At the moment neither the result or any progression in terms of squad or style of play is in his favour. Unless he turns it around in any of those categories (style of play, youthful squad or results), i don’t see how long we can blindly back him.
The same fdj who is on 700k a week because Barcelona owe him a tonne of money. Levy is not stupid had he sold Kane to us we solve our goalscoring problem and make it hard to knock us of of the top 4. When the next manager comes and says he wants Mbappe it will be clubs fault for not getting him?
The only manager I'd be happy to see replace ETH is Carrick.
Also I won't be upset if we sell Bruno and Rashford.
Also I won't be upset if we sell Bruno and Rashford.
Exactly. You cant expect players to join just because manager wanted them. FDJ and Kane never would have joined us. We have backed him in every realistic options that he gave. Even overpaid for likes of Antony and Rasmus
Arnold's measure of progress cant involve transfer spend, points, league position, goals scored, conceded, style of football, squad harmony or positive press coverage.
Would love to know what data he's looking at
Would love to know what data he's looking at
So we've been unable to hire right people for the job for a decade now and you're expecting a poster on a forum to come up with the solution? In other words, you believe ETH is the best manager we could possibly have and this is the best we could do?
Do you believe another manager would work better under the same infrastructure and circumstances?
Is pretty much the case of most the fans against Ten Hag
Potentially, yes.
Which one? And how so?
We didn't sign all his targets and we also did not shift and replace players he wanted shifted and replaced this summer.
Also saying we signed payers he wanted when its quite obvious this summer he had to compromise heavily on what he wanted is also not indicative of ETH being granted all his wishes.
Needless to say he should be held accountable for his performance but there is no need to go around spreading miss truths to make your point.
I believe there are and in and of itself it's not a problem as results and performance are the barometer, but what I think he's really struggling with is the PL and its many variables.
My feeling is he hasn't got to grips with the league, especially so because his teams aren't close to dominant enough to heavily dictate the flow of games. We sort of exist, rather aimlessly, until it all falls apart, and when it does, he looks like he is a bit shell-shocked, hence his terrible in-game management, substitutions and even hus initial line-ups, which he frequently has to amend because they aren't working.
I don't think there's such a thing as defending behind the ball in the Dutch school of football, certainly nothing like we know in the PL where teams their utmost to spoil whatever it is you've set out to do. Also in terms of defending a lead and switching to pure counter-attacking football; if that's a thing in the Eredivisie, is it anything like as laser-focused and full of intent (as well as intense) like it is in the PL? I would put forth that ten Hag is comfortable with the contingencies in Holland and not so much here.
Being used to how his system interacts and counters the systems presented in Holland and that being wholly different to what he encounters here, where he is being outcoached at an alarming rate, which I honestly thought would have been impossible.
I only watched Eredivisie to track him and his team, so don't have an overview of Dutch league football. Would be good to hear from Dutchies who can offer insight on what the general principles of the game are there.
The same Carrick that is currently 10th with Middlesbrough? His team are basically on the same run as us in a worse league.
McKenna is the only coach who has done well since leaving us and even then I wouldn't want him to come back to us.
If we can get a manager that has the b*lls to drop Rashford and Bruno then I'm all for them especially if they can make an actual functioning midfield out of the players we have available.
Maybe Marco Rose? His team play aggressive pressing football that doesn’t completely go against what Ten Hag has tried to build. If he works with the current structure he could suggest talents from Germany which might translate a bit better than players from Holland which is generally speaking a lower level.
I'm gonna say that after a decade of this shite, I'm pretty confident that no one is doing well under this current structure.
The bested manager in the world ever, Arteta, was literally allowed to tear that poor Arsenal team apart and build from scratch. Who is going to be allowed to do that under this regime? No one is doing anything of note with this squad.
I still can’t get my head around yesterday’s line up. I’ve gone back and looked at it a couple of times in pure disbelief at just what a clusterfeck that line up was.
He lost me yesterday with that team. Hes made himself look fecking clueless. The fact he was also so confident in this shit setup and line up is also a massive red flag.
He lost me yesterday with that team. Hes made himself look fecking clueless. The fact he was also so confident in this shit setup and line up is also a massive red flag.
Which is exactly the wrong approach. A system has to be drilled into every player so that they all can slot in when needed. You should never base your system on few players. Of course the quality might drop, but your system and style of play should never be dependent on who is injured. If it is, then the manager failed at his job.
At least for a top team in the PL. It can work out for teams without international competitions and/or smaller leagues. There simply is a limit how many matches you can expect a player to play in a single season and if you have to play little enough you may ride your luck with a first 11 like he did at Ajax.
The current structure hasn’t been in place for a decade.
Apart from FDJ we got him all the players he wanted. We even overpaid for few because he wanted them despite objections from our scouting department.
Wanting players is one thing, but players also should want to join us. FDJ just didnt want to join us and Kane was also never going to join us as Spurs would have never sold to us.
Was just about to say, this all feels like a continuation of Van Gaal's brand of football. Struggling for goals, worse goal difference than the teams above and below us etc.
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