Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Marwood]

Which one? And how so?

I know we all keep banging on about but it can't be overstated the impact signing a £90 million dud can have on a team. Especially on a team that's already had years of bad transfers. ETH knows his budget, he knows that's half of it gone.

On top of that, I think the main thing any new manager could do is to allow the team to have more than one CM on the pitch. For some reason ETH is dead against it.

 

[Sarni]

Do you believe another manager would work better under the same infrastructure and circumstances?

So you basically believe ETH has done the best possible job and is the best manager around?

 

[Nogbadthebad]

I said this in the matchday thread. Never mind city, watch a wrexham game.

They have a style, they players all know exactly what they are doing, there are established patterns fo play you can see as you watch them.

They are better coached than we are.

Couple that with the awful transfer choices he's made, and Ten Hag still has a long way yo go to grow into being our manager.

But having said that, it would be utterly pointless swapping him now. No one will succeed until the ownership and senior management structure is changed. We do need an actual DoF though, and ten hag should not be involved in recruitment. Give the recruitment team a player profile, let them find the individual.

 

[IWat]

I'm gonna say that after a decade of this shite, I'm pretty confident that no one is doing well under this current structure.

The bested manager in the world ever, Arteta, was literally allowed to tear that poor Arsenal team apart and build from scratch. Who is going to be allowed to do that under this regime? No one is doing anything of note with this squad.

We can't and won't be able to offload the dross on the wages we've put them on. No one is going anywhere near Rashford for £300k per week, Martial on £250k and same for Bruno etc etc unless we're willing to buy out a good chunk of their contract.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

So who's the problem?

ETH?
Woodward?
Ronaldo?
Glazers?
Mctom?
Mcquire?
Fred?
Dalot?
Lindelof?
Antony?
Mount?
Casemiro?
Varane?
Malacia?
Armabat?
Martial?

It's Bruno and Rashford now we all know. Let's fecking hang these two and I'm sure we'll be back on top.

 

[Robbie Boy]

The current structure hasn’t been in place for a decade.

It's all been much of the same under the Glazers, though; unqualified people being appointed into sporting positions, poor recruitment, no structure etc. We then appoint managers - usually poor ones - with zero plan in place. These managers are generally given money to spend but they're also lumped with a tonne of players that they don't want. Ultimately they fail, and we repeat the same cycle, ending up with a bloated squad and a mis-match of players.

Imagine someone told you 3 years ago that we would genuinely be fielding players like McT, Maguire, Lindelof, AWB and Martial in 2023. This just illustrates how badly run we are.

 

[Robbie Boy]

We can't and won't be able to offload the dross on the wages we've put them on. No one is going anywhere near Rashford for £300k per week, Martial on £250k and same for Bruno etc etc unless we're willing to buy out a good chunk of their contract.

Very true. Our club is so fecking poorly run, it defies belief. There's gross incompetence and then there's this.

 

[Dec9003]

It's all been much of the same under the Glazers, though; unqualified people being appointed into sporting positions, poor recruitment, no structure etc. We then appoint managers - usually poor ones - with zero plan in place. These managers are generally given money to spend but they're also lumped with a tonne of players that they don't want. Ultimately they fail, and we repeat the same cycle, ending up with a bloated squad and a mis-match of players.

Imagine someone told you 3 years ago that we would genuinely be fielding players like McT, Maguire, AWB and Martial in 2023. This just illustrates how badly run we are.

I get the whole mishmash squad thing, but nobody is forcing ETH to pick any of the players mentioned, in fact he didn’t pick Varane and his new signing Mount, or Hannibal, or Mainoo over picking MCT to win knock ons and hopefully get a shot away. I agree that the structure hasn’t been ideal at United but I’m not having that there’s no manager in Europe with better ideas than the ones we’re seeing.

 

[Cassidy]

Apart from FDJ we got him all the players he wanted. We even overpaid for few because he wanted them despite objections from our scouting department.
Wanting players is one thing, but players also should want to join us. FDJ just didnt want to join us and Kane was also never going to join us as Spurs would have never sold to us.

Thats a lie especially this summer just gone. And he wanted a world class striker, the name did not have to be Kane.
You are essentially penalising him for not being Jose and throwing the club under the bus when it can't action what he wants.
Also its clear he wanted certain players cleared out the dressing room this summer and replaced and they are still there

Again critique ETH on his management and coaching, but don't distort the truth it just negates the credibility of your point

 

[Oranges038]

The same Carrick that is currently 10th with Middlesbrough? His team are basically on the same run as us in a worse league.

McKenna is the only coach who has done well since leaving us and even then I wouldn't want him to come back to us.

If we can get a manager that has the b*lls to drop Rashford and Bruno then I'm all for them especially if they can make an actual functioning midfield out of the players we have available.

Get Roy in and get wer Steve Bruce in for what to put out the cones and cook the bacon.

It would be a fun few weeks, before Keane alienated the team and torched the whole place to the ground.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

We can't and won't be able to offload the dross on the wages we've put them on. No one is going anywhere near Rashford for £300k per week, Martial on £250k and same for Bruno etc etc unless we're willing to buy out a good chunk of their contract.

Martial is gone next summer thankfully (on a free but still).

 

[Robbie Boy]

I get the whole mishmash squad thing, but nobody is forcing ETH to pick any of the players mentioned, in fact he didn’t pick Varane and his new signing Mount, or Hannibal, or Mainoo over picking MCT to win knock ons and hopefully get a shot away. I agree that the structure hasn’t been ideal at United but I’m not having that there’s no manager in Europe with better ideas than the ones we’re seeing.

Yes, his team selections have often been terrible, that's besides the point. The point is that we aren't a well run club and I can guarantee that ETH doesn't want a fair chunk of players that he has to work with. I'm not defending ETH here btw; I'm pointing out that we are a fecking mess and our setup will see multiple more managers fail.

 

[Cassidy]

Potentially, yes.

 

[Castia]

Do you believe another manager would work better under the same infrastructure and circumstances?

I do.

Would we be pushing for league titles? probably not. Are the Glazers a massive issue? yes

But I have to believe that a manager who’s been given 400m and 14 new players (inc loans) in 12 months should at least have a way of playing, we look just as clueless now as we did under Ole.

I can take the loses. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done to this side but we’ve been piss poor for months, arguably since the caraboe cup final every win feels like a 90 minute slog, Rashford carried us to points last season and now he’s off it there’s no goals coming from anywhere

The league doesn’t lie and fair play ETH finished 3rd but it was a freak season in the sense that Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool were absolutely dreadful, just look at our goal difference last season we wasn’t finishing 3rd if those sides were anywhere near their usual level

 

[Ayoba]

Mansheshter united is not a football klub

 

[Cassidy]

I do.

Would we be pushing for league titles? probably not. Are the Glazers a massive issue? yes

But I have to believe that a manager who’s been given 400m and 14 new players (inc loans) in 12 months should at least have a way of playing, we look just as clueless now as we did under Ole.

I can take the loses. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done to this side but we’ve been piss poor for months, arguably since the caraboe cup final every win feels like a 90 minute slog, Rashford carried us to points last season and now he’s off it there’s no goals coming from anywhere

The league doesn’t lie and fair play ETH finished 3rd but it was a freek season in the sense that Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool were absolutely dreadful, just look at our goal difference last season we wasn’t finishing 3rd if those sides were anywhere near their usual level

Buzz words, United has a way of playing, you just don't like it
Also 14 new players?

Now we want to diminish what he achieved last season to make your point.
Fact is the squad cannot handle this level of injuries and he is struggling as a result, also as a result of some of his errors too

 

[stefan92]

Maybe Marco Rose? His team play aggressive pressing football that doesn’t completely go against what Ten Hag has tried to build. If he works with the current structure he could suggest talents from Germany which might translate a bit better than players from Holland which is generally speaking a lower level.

Interesting name for sure, but I doubt this would be a good or realistic move.

He relies on high and compact pressing and playing high lines, which still doesn't fit United's squad well. He lacks titles which will give him a terrible start with the media. He is part of the "Rangnick-sphere" of German football, which already proved to be inkompatibel with United. And last not least I think it would be hard to lure him away from Leipzig, as he can play for titles there and it is his hometown. There is little pulling him away from there.

 

[Dec9003]

Pointless response.

Yes, his team selections have often been terrible, that's besides the point. The point is that we aren't a well run club and I can guarantee that ETH doesn't want a fair chunk of players that he has to work with. I'm not defending ETH here btw; I'm pointing out that we are a fecking mess and our setup will see multiple more managers fail.

Yeah I think that’s fair, I do think most managers work with players that aren’t ideal though, and he’s had options like having Varane on the bench but still picking Maguire, he must be happy to work with him. I agree that the structure isn’t perfect, but like I’ve said I don’t agree that it’s the absolute cause behind the managers failing, unless you see it as them being the ones that pick the failing managers which I can’t really disagree with.

 

[Cassidy]

The current structure hasn’t been in place for a decade.

You could argue the previous structure was better than this current one

 

[VP89]

Maybe Marco Rose? His team play aggressive pressing football that doesn’t completely go against what Ten Hag has tried to build. If he works with the current structure he could suggest talents from Germany which might translate a bit better than players from Holland which is generally speaking a lower level.

Oh that guy who tried making a step up at Dortmund and completely imploded? Good shout.

Which is exactly the wrong approach. A system has to be drilled into every player so that they all can slot in when needed. You should never base your system on few players. Of course the quality might drop, but your system and style of play should never be dependent on who is injured. If it is, then the manager failed at his job.

At least for a top team in the PL. It can work out for teams without international competitions and/or smaller leagues. There simply is a limit how many matches you can expect a player to play in a single season and if you have to play little enough you may ride your luck with a first 11 like he did at Ajax.

I think his system itself needed tweaking toward pragmatism. It's not just a few players he relies on, but the back ups too. When hes playing the 4th and 5th choices, that's where its a problem.

So you basically believe ETH has done the best possible job and is the best manager around?

What is it with some of you lot not knowing how to read? Has he done the best possible job? No. Has he over performed last season on results? Yes. Is he the best available manager for us? Yes. Come back in Christmas and ask the same question, you might get the same answer or different. It's too early to call for him out now.

I do.

Would we be pushing for league titles? probably not. Are the Glazers a massive issue? yes

But I have to believe that a manager who’s been given 400m and 14 new players (inc loans) in 12 months should at least have a way of playing, we look just as clueless now as we did under Ole.

I can take the loses. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done to this side but we’ve been piss poor for months, arguably since the caraboe cup final every win feels like a 90 minute slog, Rashford carried us to points last season and now he’s off it there’s no goals coming from anywhere

The league doesn’t lie and fair play ETH finished 3rd but it was a freek season in the sense that Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool were absolutely dreadful, just look at our goal difference last season we wasn’t finishing 3rd if those sides were anywhere near their usual level

You moan about money spent like he should be a DoF and a manager. If money is wasted blame the people above him. He's a coach and his job is to get results. Last year he over performed, and this year hes under performing. The jury on him as a success or failure for now is still out but it does make me laugh that some posters want to punt on it being on an extreme.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Pointless response.


Yeah I think that’s fair, I do think most managers work with players that aren’t ideal though, and he’s had options like having Varane on the bench but still picking Maguire, he must be happy to work with him. I agree that the structure isn’t perfect, but like I’ve said I don’t agree that it’s the absolute cause behind the managers failing, unless you see it as them being the ones that pick the failing managers which I can’t really disagree with.

But he clearly doesn't want Maguire and actively tried to sell him. I have no idea why he was chosen yesterday, but it is what it is. He actively tried to sell McT too so again, I have no idea why he started yesterday.

Well, the structures are terrible; we aren't a seriously run club. Other managers at top clubs who thrive are all working in far better setups. The fact is; we have a bloated, average squad that has been amassed by multiple managers. All of these players are on ridiculous contracts and will be hard to shift. Whoever comes in will face more of the same issues.

And yes, I think we've made terrible managerial appointments over the past decade. The only ones that made sense to me were Jose and ETH.

 

[Kumar Abhishek]

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark". There does appear to be something structurally broken inside the club. My hypothesis is that the uncertainty around the sale of the club has really destabilized the day-to-day working. It beggars belief to see why ETH has completely abandoned his style of playing this season. So much short-term thinking can only come from a place of fear. And I really don't buy the argument that he isn't a good coach. This is the same guy who was in the conversation to succeed Pep at one point.

It also feels like everything that can go wrong, is going wrong. His whole backline is impacted almost at once. And not just a 2-3 week layoff either - Shaw and Martinez and Malacia are all out for extended periods; Antony was out for a few weeks with an issue that might cause even the best to lose their form; Varane and Case who are clearly two of the leaders of the squad have been in and out; Reguilon has been out for extended periods; Hojlund's minutes have to be managed; Amrabat isn't fully fit either is my assessment. AWB has been out for a while which is causing Dalot to play way too many minutes. Sancho is out. Martial can't play the full 90 minutes. Mainoo has been out for a long time. Amad has been out for a long time. That's 13 players affected at one point or another!

 

[Cassidy]

But he clearly doesn't want Maguire and actively tried to sell him. I have no idea why he was chosen yesterday, but it is what it is. He actively tried to sell McT too so again, I have no idea why he started yesterday.

Well, the structures are terrible; we aren't a seriously run club. Other managers at top clubs who thrive are all working in far better setups. The fact is; we have a bloated, average squad that has been amassed by multiple managers. All of these players are on ridiculous contracts and will be hard to shift. Whoever comes in will face more of the same issues.

And yes, I think we've made terrible managerial appointments over the past decade. The only ones that made sense to me were Jose and ETH.

But you do know why Maguire started, injuries

 

[Rista]

Do you believe another manager would work better under the same infrastructure and circumstances?

What kind of question is that anyway? Do you really think we need new owners and change the entire club structure from ground up just to play at least somewhat decent football and not struggle against shite teams? Yes, I absolutely believe it's possible to get more out of the current players than we're getting. if you don't agree, then I take it you believe ETH is doing the best possible job here? But how come we're doing significantly worse with his players now compared to last season?

 

[Robbie Boy]

But you do know why Maguire started, injuries

With Varane on the bench? Was Varane carrying a knock?

 

[ClassOf'99]

Get Roy in and get wer Steve Bruce in for what to put out the cones and cook the bacon.

It would be a fun few weeks, before Keane alienated the team and torched the whole place to the ground.

I'd love nothing more than to have stuck a goPro on Keane and send him in at half time a few times this season.

It also sounds like the stadium needs it, did I hear City fans singing Old Trafford is falling apart yesterday?

 

[ShamrockD]

There's no issue with him looking to implement a more direct & transition focused style than he did at Ajax. A lot of excellent sides fall into the category of being more direct and transition-focused than Ajax. Klopp's PL/CL winning Liverpool team were famously more direct and transition-based than their rivals City, but it wasn't seen as some concession to not playing "a modern style of football". Fast, direct, attacking football focused on regaining possession in dangerous areas through aggressive pressing would be great.

Plus, these stylistic differences are relative. A league winning side who focus on possession are still going to be better in transition than nearly everyone else in the league, and a league winning side who are more direct and transition based are still going to be better in possession than nearly everyone else in the league. Because that's what being good enough to win titles entails.

The real problem is that whatever vision ETH had in mind for United, what he's built up to this point is a side that are quite bad at excecuting it. If we were playing a high quality version of that more direct style ETH envisioned then there'd be few complaints, but instead we're bad at being even that. And ultimately it doesn't matter what your stylistic preferences are if you can't get the team to be good at doing it.

You missed the point, which is not about stylistic preferences.

The point is that you cannot hire a manager of a different profile to implement something in which he has not excelled. Why to take the risk? Just stick to what you are proficient in teaching and complete the overhaul of the squad based on that. Sell Rashford and Bruno, if needed. Take harsh decisions. Do not compromise, otherwise you will end up with a mess, as you did.

Apparently, we did not want to do that. We just decided to hire the most hyped coach at the time and he idiotically agreed to come and try something different instead of insisting on his brand of football. You will not sign Pep and tell him to compromise and play more direct based on the current set of players. You are shooting yourself in the head.

For me, this interview of ETH cleared out the mess and the questions I had over everything in the last months. He is trying to do something different, completely out of his profile and he seems lost at it.

 

[Dec9003]

Oh that guy who tried making a step up at Dortmund and completely imploded? Good shout.

He was sacked in second place, 8 points behind Bayern Munich, hardly an implosion. He’s since moved on and won a cup + community shield equivalent with Leipzig. He’s also beaten teams like Real Madrid and Bayern Munich at his current club, it’s bad faith to suggest he’s nowhere near a reasonable shout. Would you have said no to Klopp after his Dortmund ‘implosion’?

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I think this is his biggest mistake. He refused to stick to what we was hired to bring rather than accepting what is being played here as the level best.


I think now we can see why we play the same way as we played under Ole. ETH has refused to change how we play

 

[Skills]

I think one of the worst parts of his management is that he genuinely doesn't seem to comprehend or process what's happening on the pitch. He's watching the games, but just coming to the wrong conclusion about the things going right or wrong. It's why his subs are so, so bad - he's doing completely the wrong thing, because he's somehow misinterpreted how the games going.

It's why his selections game to game are shit as well - Weghorst was dogshit for us, but undroppable for ETH. It's why he brought Antony here. When we go a few goals down, he doesn't know how to react to stop the bleeding and we end up obliterated. I think he'd be a good assistant manager for a quality manager because he seems to know how to coach a few drills, but he's poor at all other aspects of being a manager.

 

[RedRover]

I said this in the matchday thread. Never mind city, watch a wrexham game.

They have a style, they players all know exactly what they are doing, there are established patterns fo play you can see as you watch them.

They are better coached than we are.

Couple that with the awful transfer choices he's made, and Ten Hag still has a long way yo go to grow into being our manager.

But having said that, it would be utterly pointless swapping him now. No one will succeed until the ownership and senior management structure is changed. We do need an actual DoF though, and ten hag should not be involved in recruitment. Give the recruitment team a player profile, let them find the individual.

This is it. I watch a bang average National League side most weeks. New manager came in last season and with no new signings, within a few weeks you could see what he was trying to do and how the patterns of play changed.

I still don't know what he's trying to do, and the comments today (in another thread, re admitting he can't do what he did at Ajax) are bizarre. He looks out of his depth.

That said, the structure is obviously a problem and will clearly hold any decent manager back.

 

[Nogho]

Doesnt exist Jose was as close as we got and toward the end we all wanted him gone.

Yeah, I guess you are right about that. But that is what I think could get some of the players going. The likes of Fernandez and Rashford, who both should be EtH pawns seems to underachive the most. Could it be because they don't cope with being leading figures?

 

[Dec9003]

Interesting name for sure, but I doubt this would be a good or realistic move.

He relies on high and compact pressing and playing high lines, which still doesn't fit United's squad well. He lacks titles which will give him a terrible start with the media. He is part of the "Rangnick-sphere" of German football, which already proved to be inkompatibel with United. And last not least I think it would be hard to lure him away from Leipzig, as he can play for titles there and it is his hometown. There is little pulling him away from there.

We’d have to make adjustments to the squad, but we need to anyway so it doesn’t change much in that sense. I don’t think Rangnick or his style of football wouldn’t work here, outside of a short interim period we’ve not really tried it. To me that style makes more sense for us than the way Ajax play, though with Ten Hag he admitted that’s not what we’re building toward anyway.

 

[Cassidy]

With Varane on the bench? Was Varane carrying a knock?

Well he has been out injured yes, would have been his first game back

 

[VP89]

He was sacked in second place, 8 points behind Bayern Munich, hardly an implosion. He’s since moved on and won a cup + community shield equivalent with Leipzig. He’s also beaten teams like Real Madrid and Bayern Munich at his current club, it’s bad faith to suggest he’s nowhere near a reasonable shout. Would you have said no to Klopp after his Dortmund ‘implosion’?

Second in a 2 horse league and had some horrific results.

Ten Hag took Ajax when they hadn't won the league in 5 years, won two doubles and left. Now they're shit again.

You think Marco Rose stands a chance in comparison with that CV? Good luck.

 

[Dec9003]

Well he has been out injured yes, would have been his first game back

He played the full match against Copenhagen four days before.

 

[Cassidy]

What kind of question is that anyway? Do you really think we need new owners and change the entire club structure from ground up just to play at least somewhat decent football and not struggle against shite teams? Yes, I absolutely believe it's possible to get more out of the current players than we're getting. if you don't agree, then I take it you believe ETH is doing the best possible job here? But how come we're doing significantly worse with his players now compared to last season?

When he didn't have an injury crisis we finished 3rd last season and got to 2 cup finals winning 1

 

[Robbie Boy]

Well he has been out injured yes, would have been his first game back

I still would have rathered him than Maguire, personally, even if he wasn't 100%. Anyhow it's besides the point. My original point was that ETH doesn't rate him and tried to sell him.

 

[Dec9003]

Second in a 2 horse league and had some horrific results.

Ten Hag took Ajax when they hadn't won the league in 5 years, won two doubles and left. Now they're shit again.

You think Marco Rose stands a chance in comparison with that CV? Good luck.

Ten Hag was at Ajax for a part of that five years. I think Marco Rose might stand a chance yes hence me suggesting him? It’s clear you’re not actually willing to consider alternatives, it’s just bad faith to protect your guy.

 

[Cassidy]

He played the full match against Copenhagen four days before.

Good point, then I guess we don't know then