https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...oo-much-power-over-manchester-united-signings
Direct quote from ETH in there, all the transfers made have been50-50 agreed upon by ETH and Murtough.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Direct quote from ETH in there, all the transfers made have been50-50 agreed upon by ETH and Murtough.
ETH has to go back to the start, our goals scored is reflective of the bottom half of the table and on course for about 40 odd goals and 55-60 points.
Pretty sure every poll had ETH way out in the lead.
If Ten Hag is telling the truth then Murtough is terrible at his job. Any director of football worth their salt wouldn't have thought Antony was worth the fee Ajax were demanding.
I don't know if the fanbase has another 12-18 months of this in them
It actually scares me to think that we could put up with this for another 18 months.He was definitely the popular choice. Most didn't want Poch.
Didn’t realise that Ajax UCL run 4 years ago was such a huge achievement that it washes everything that comes after that.
Ten Hag is one of the main responsible for this mess. Of course the Glazers are the main reason, such as Murtough, Arnold and the rest of the staff, but with the players he has, he asked, he should have done better.
We are poor and out of form since February last year and many things are not working in that team.
Many teams have less better players than we have, but we are struggling with the basics of football. Disjointed team, nothing from the back, lone midfielders and forward players.
What happens on the field is on him and the players. We can't say that he's hit with injuries when he decides to play Lindelof, Evans and Mc Tominay against City.
I will give him this season, probably we will finish 8th or 9th, many players will leave and we'll see who is on the market because it's not acceptable at all.
We are poor and out of form since February last year and many things are not working in that team.
Many teams have less better players than we have, but we are struggling with the basics of football. Disjointed team, nothing from the back, lone midfielders and forward players.
What happens on the field is on him and the players. We can't say that he's hit with injuries when he decides to play Lindelof, Evans and Mc Tominay against City.
I will give him this season, probably we will finish 8th or 9th, many players will leave and we'll see who is on the market because it's not acceptable at all.
Them comments in that Dutch interview deserve their own thread. This just completely turned me against him.
ETH was a lot more popular. Gary Neville even mentioned how surprised he was that the fans were so adamant they want ETH over Poch.
If ETH is telling him how great Antony is and will be though...it's not like there were a lot of other RW options out there at the time. ETH is negotiating on players from a position of strength having actually worked with them before. If Murtough was to say no then he's basically telling our new manager that he doesn't know what he's on about and it would cause friction. It's a poor dynamic we've created there.
Yeah, I suppose though if you just sign a manager and he’s adamant about the player he wants you’ve got to go for them. If they didn’t sign any of the players ETH wanted that would be a stick to beat them with, too.
I thought him binning ronaldo was because he wanted to implement his system???? I don't get where we are going at this point, absolute dreadful appointment if these quotes are true as we have done yet another rebuild (dreadfully done though) for nothing...
It's not working with ETH but I never would have wanted Poch here.
I remember that interview with Neville. You could tell he wasn't completely convinced ETH had proven enough, but was willing to give him a shot. Which is where I was at too, though would have equally have been happy with others.
So for the most part you built a strawman there to avoid actually suggesting anyone. I'm not going to dismiss everyone, but I am going to challenge suggestions and expect you to explain why they're a good fit. Ange for example has some success behind him, at a club where it's expected with Celtic, that's a good point to have on a CV when looking at the United job. There are legitimate questions to be asked about the levels he's managed at before, but his work with Spurs so far looks good (although arguably too early to draw solid conclusions from just yet).
But your current suggestion seems to be to get literally anybody in and see if it works? Or that the club should just invent a new manager? If so that's a ridiculous line of thinking. I'm not suggesting sticking with a manager for the sake of it, but if you can't name a single realistic alternative to the current manager, then your calls for him to go are meaningless. Your Tuchel suggestion is reasonable, but it isn't 18 months ago anymore and he's at Bayern, so who would you suggest for the situation as it is now?
Pretty much
Wasn’t one of the reasons the club wanted him is because of the style of football he was known for playing? Also, isn’t it one of the reasons those who wanted him in the first place wanted him?
Doesn't really add up. That seemed the plan last season to play the Ajax way, especially pre world cup.
I thought most of his signings were with in mind?
Plus why sigh him? If direct football is our dna and the only way we can play, why didn't we sign a manager that plays direct fooball.
I thought most of his signings were with in mind?
Plus why sigh him? If direct football is our dna and the only way we can play, why didn't we sign a manager that plays direct fooball.
Fast forward a year and City and Villa have each signed a RW who is twice the player Antony is for almost half the price. The structure above Ten Hag should be able to identify those sorts of players before other clubs do. Murtough saying to Ten Hag that Ajax are pricing us out of a move for Antony wouldn't cause friction - that happens at other top clubs all the time. It's not down to Ten Hag to tell Murtough that Antony is worth 80m just because he's coached him before. What if Ajax had asked for 110m? Should Murtough have still signed him to avoid causing friction between him and Ten Hag?
I think a lot of us have been pro EtH because we wanted stability and a manager who could rally the team and put up some standards. He have failed miserably. He just standing there like a grim statue on the side line. Nah, I was really behind him, but now starting to falter. His way of saying its all progressing good and etc. Its so obvious now that he can't do this. Sadly I can't see anyone else who could. We are worst then ever - the stats don't lie. So sad. Following this team for thirty odd years and now you have to live with this. I really do think we need a manager with a ego and merits bigger then our group of players. Someone who they can get behind and put their trust in.
In terms of wanting managers with pedigree, maybe someone like Hansi Flick could work on a short term basis, he’s more proven than ETH. Someone like Simeone has improved his style of play recently and has experience going up against teams that are better which is what he’d need to do here. Lopetegui is also available, he wasn’t won a league title but he did have some success in the Europa League with Sevilla. Then there are options like Conte and Potter but they’re not realistic.
I just don't agree with the "players technically regress" sort of thinking. Nobody "technically regresses", they are either good enough or they're not. We have lived with utter mediocrity and past-their-prime players basically since Alex Ferguson, excepting the very few odd high level performers. I can't help but think our reality is the total opposite: that the fans and expectations within the club have allowed some absolute nobodies to perform at a level way beyond their norm. Cases in point - Tom Cleverley has a premier league winners medal. Phil Jones has multiple winners medals. At any other club would they win ANYTHING? Ever?
The drama surrounding the club, the media expectations, even the endless micro-analysis of every decision that a referee makes must make it a miserable experience to be a Manchester United player at the minute. The unrest over Ratcliff coming in - people are going to lose their -jobs-, whether they deserve it or not they're human beings and that anxiety is going to transmit around training and permeate the entire structure.
You need to have EITHER a super-strong mentality or be an incredible gifted footballer to play through all that at your highest level. And to be honest we don't have many gifted footballers and they're clearly mental toddlers, given the behaviour of Sancho and Rashford and Bruno whenever anything goes against them. There's no coincidence our best football only ever seems to come when we are winning. But it's on the manager to sign those players.
Ironically I am starting to believe Onana is one of those characters now. He's clearly a warrior and he's beginning to rise to the challenge and that's fantastic for him at least, and lucky for Ten Hag because nobody else he's signed has shown anything of the sort.
They're all pretty terrible shouts. Conte, Potter and Lopetugi have all recently enough been sacked by Spurs, Chelsea and Wolves.
Exactly.
This is genuinely some of the worst decision making I've ever seen at a football club. The large majority of fans wanted ETH in because they were a fan of how his Ajax team played football. This is basically saying that he agreed to the job on the basis that he would just continue playing Ole ball.
It all feels almost as if it was just to prove Rangnick wrong. That we don't need to completely overhaul the squad and style of play/recruitment style. Nah, we can just bring in a new manager, throw cash at random players and then hope for the best with no overall strategic plan or vision except the 'United Way' ?
Say what you want about his management, but Rangnick was spot on. It's not a hard thing to do.
1. Identify a playstyle
2. Get rid of players who don't fit that playstyle
2. Recruit players for said playstyle (don't need to be all superstars)
3. Hire a manager who excels in that playstyle
If the whole world can see it and most our fans can see it, why can't the people in charge?
I refuse to believe we would have been worse off if Rangnick was our DoF with 400 fecking million to spend and say on selling players like Rashford/Bruno who can never work with ETH's signature style of football.
To be fair to the fan base the attraction to Eth was the idea of moving away from moments of brilliance to an Ajax type philosophy. Most of us didn't watch Ajax play all we knew is that Ajax are known for a good philosophy. I think the fan base in general is begging to see patterns of play, to see us do well with the ball. All the managers except Lvg( we should have followed him up with another possession style manager)have went for the easy route so far.
Lopetegui wasn’t sacked by Wolves, they agreed to part ways because he wanted more investment in the squad. He would only be a short term option anyway. The likes of Simeone and Hansi Flick aren’t really terrible shouts I don’t think. Conte and Potter i referenced as being available but not managers we’d likely go for hence unrealistic.
Could only find a short clip of some other question in the same interview
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Doesnt exist Jose was as close as we got and toward the end we all wanted him gone.
That's two examples of managers right there that you agree with and your conclusion is that I'm suggesting to hire anyone? Did you even read my post? I said the club should do their homework instead of listening to supporters. No Spurs supporter would have suggested Ange, and look at how well he is doing. That is my point. Somebody at Spurs has seen something in him and they have given him a chance. I could suggest managers but I know full well that you will dismiss them, even though it is very possible that they could do a good job here. The issue is that RedCafe have written off so many managers that you would get laughed at for even suggesting them. I argued with posters on here that Arteta was taking Arsenal in the right direction - not a popular opinion at the time but now look.
Brendan Rodgers for example. Had Liverpool playing excellent football, had Leicester playing very good football, has Celtic playing good football. Unbeaten in the league and just got a draw (having led twice) against Atletico Madrid. Nobody wants to hear it, but he is a good manager than has a good attitude and plays good football. He's had his lows and highs, but overall I think he's proven himself well over the years. You will dismiss him, but in a reality where he was given a chance here, I could see him doing well. Whether he would get us competing at the top, I'm not sure.
He's not even my no1 pick, but he's an example of a manager that could do well that would just get dismissed outright. Which is why it's pointless even making a suggestion. But ultimately, as I said, the club needs to do their homework next time.
A manager with no identity and doing trial and error in the most competitive league. He's going to be gone but on reflection why was he hired if not on the premise of what he displayed at Ajax. When Pep was talking about ETH there was mentions of him saying they play similar football. ETH bemoans not having the players to do so but has spent money and wages on around 16 individuals including loans so it's not really an excuse.
He'll be the third manager in a row to have failed when it comes to teams performances. It's good the media are picking up on the lack of "style" because it's not even like United are a jack of all trades, everything is misaligned and dysfunctional.
He'll be the third manager in a row to have failed when it comes to teams performances. It's good the media are picking up on the lack of "style" because it's not even like United are a jack of all trades, everything is misaligned and dysfunctional.
Flick recently done an atrocious job with Germany. We need to actually sign a manager on an upward trajectory. Simone is never leaving Atletico and Potter and Conte are both very underwhelming.
No manager is fixing this absolute mess. Better sticking with ETH until we have our new sporting structure in place and starting from scratch. I'm just exasperated at this point and I'm totally ambivalent about what we do manager-wise. We aren't a serious club and aren't run like a serious club.
Emery was sacked by Arsenal but is doing a good job at Villa. If you only apply your logic then no manager is worth a chance. It's about finding a manager that clicks with the players, the club and the fans. Nobody can say who that will be, but you have to give opportunities if you think they have a chance.
You have a point to an extent but when the manager has to choose an entire back 4 that's not his first choice, there isn't a foundation to play his system upon.
What I dont get with TH is if he is telling lies or is deluded in interviews. He thought we played well again yesterday. If he really thinks we are playing well and it will all click in time, then he really needs to go. He certainly shouldnt be allowed free rein on the signings in future.
I would take a gamble on Simeone or Flick over finishing the season with ETH any day.
Ultimately it's all academic until Murtough and Arnold are jettisoned.
Ultimately it's all academic until Murtough and Arnold are jettisoned.
Wasn't he only talking about the first half?
I wouldn't take anyone from that list.
This mess has In part been created by the manager and his signings, another manager can and would absolutely do better. If we refuse to sign a different manager and write them all off for a variety of reasons then we are deeply unserious. We don’t know if we are even getting a new sporting structure, the answer isn’t just to stick until that maybe happens. If we want a manager on an upper trajectory then: Emery, Thomas Frank, De Zerbi are all shouts just from the Premier League.
Imagine Simeone even contemplating walking away from what he has at Atletico into this.
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