I’m talking about Richard Arnold more.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I agree. But there has to be accountability for what has transpired and that rests solely on him. I expect that Murtough etc will be dealt with in due course if Ratcliffe (or somebody else) does get involved. I'm just not concerned about that right now - and if I was the owner of the club then I'd want to see somebody come in and prove themselves by maximising the output of the players we already have before I backed them financially.
Right. So we’ve given too much power for fraud there then. He should have focus on the coaching part and improve the whole team play, that’s his only job. Oh but wait a min, he doesn’t do that too. He improves feck all.
Agreed.
The irony is we had a director of football butwe decided to hire him as a manager and sack him before he could do the job we surely hired him for in the first instance.
It seems like the things he said that the club didn’t like to hear were indeed entirely accurate.
How embarrassing that we allowed him to dictate the terms that way. He obviously didn’t want Arnold/ Murtough and/or Woodward anywhere the footballing side of the business. It’s incredible really.
The cynic in me thinks the Glazers agreed to his demands for control because it would take the heat off them if it went wrong and then he is the scapegoat not them because they gave him what he wanted.
It's quite alarming that he went to that last match of the season against CP right after we was hired and thought "this is the United way, feck Ajax and totalvoetbal". Atleast he has managed to consistently replicate that performance, so he is indeed staying true to the words he uttered to Dutch Viaplay yesterday.
I don’t think CEO is necessarily a footballing role though is it? I know when Erik was at Ajax it was VDS doing that job but I don’t think it’s a fully fledged football role, it’s overseeing football and business aspects.
In hindsight the signing of Casemiro showed everyone that the people in power at the club are not aligned with the manager.
The point is he has been put in the position of overseeing the sporting side because of his success on the commercial side of things and being close to the Glazers, like Woodward. Arnold is an extension of the Glazers. He’s their man.
Just team selection?
What about transfers? He insisted on leading the recruitment. He has actually worked with many of the players that we have signed previously, and they look woefully short. This tells me that he has really underestimated the PL and should make everybody question whether he actually knows how to operate himself at this level.
And what about tactics? When he signed Mount, myself and many others said that it was a tactical disaster. Especially when Simon Stone (I think) confirmed he wanted Mount to play two 8's. Myself and many others said it was suicidal, especially with somebody like Casemiro sitting in behind. Not to mention our severe struggles with goalscoring and style of play. We seem to have found ourselves back in the Ole mindset of 'let's hope somebody can come up with something', which is exactly why he continues to play Bruno and Rashford, our two most individualistic players. He needs them to provide the answers for him, when they don't then we struggle.
Richard Arnold said he didn't want involvement in the footballing side after he saw what Woodward did. That's why he put Murtough, Fletcher and others in position.
It's fair to call footballers "system players" -- is it fair to do the same for football managers?
The issue every manager has had is that they can’t get their recruitment right.
Moyes just kept trying for unrealistic targets or his Everton crap, LVG just brought in his Dutch crap, Mouriniho clashed with the big games he brought in and couldn’t get them playing, Ole just bought crap British talent thinking that’s what United should do…
And now Ten Hag. Bringing in shite from the Dutch league. I don’t know why this club can’t have a proper scouting network to get the best talent. Then you can drop £100m on the likes of Kane rather than using that budget to replace last summers signings. Casemiro is just past it and needs replacing already. Anthony should be replaced by literally anyone.
That’s one thing though. The other is getting the best out of what you have. This is where ETH is having the problem now. We could not be playing any worse.
United need someone with more personality to be honest. ETH doesn’t have any.
Moyes just kept trying for unrealistic targets or his Everton crap, LVG just brought in his Dutch crap, Mouriniho clashed with the big games he brought in and couldn’t get them playing, Ole just bought crap British talent thinking that’s what United should do…
And now Ten Hag. Bringing in shite from the Dutch league. I don’t know why this club can’t have a proper scouting network to get the best talent. Then you can drop £100m on the likes of Kane rather than using that budget to replace last summers signings. Casemiro is just past it and needs replacing already. Anthony should be replaced by literally anyone.
That’s one thing though. The other is getting the best out of what you have. This is where ETH is having the problem now. We could not be playing any worse.
United need someone with more personality to be honest. ETH doesn’t have any.
ETH didn't want to work with him. He had all the answers.
Was he qualified for the job though? Arguably one of the most important roles in football - spearheading United's new transfer strategy and we hire a guy who was a sports scientist at Everton and worked with the women's team at United. Presumably Murtough doesn't even seem to fancy himself to be equipped for the role if he's letting Ten Hag identify which players need to be signed. City got their structure right when they hired people from Barcelona who knew what they were doing in that department.
You're not exactly arguing your case well, most of your posts just on this page read like unhinged ramblings.
I'm willing to accept that I've backed the wrong horse if you can point me to an alternative horse to back, with a well reasoned argument as to why I should back them.
I'm completely serious too - if you can make a convincing argument for a manager who could come in and do better in the short and long term, continuing to move us to a more proactive style of football (no more mid or low block), and point to what they've done in the past that indicates they'd be a success here (previous high pressure environments, operating in a dysfunctional football system with a relatively low budget, dealing with egos, etc), then I'll happily get on board. But that's the kind of depth of thought required, wanting a manager out without any idea as to who to bring in is basically just a tantrum, and so far all I've seen is really shallow suggestions like Carrick or De Zerbi.
It's just tiring going through the same shit with every manager. I've almost apathy as to whether he goes or stays but there's no denying his performance currently is inexcusable. Think those acting as his defence should just relax and make better use of their time.
It honestly feels like every manager struggles to implement a system and they give in to players who performed X way in a hot streak.
If he doesn't start to implement something beyond just pressing the opposition then he's made his own grave.
It honestly feels like every manager struggles to implement a system and they give in to players who performed X way in a hot streak.
If he doesn't start to implement something beyond just pressing the opposition then he's made his own grave.
Maybe. I have always believed it was ETH because the fans wanted it. Just like they wanted Ole making permanent, and they wanted LVG etc etc. Fan sentiment is massive at this club, which is why it frustrates me that we accept such shite on the pitch but seem more involved in off the field issues.
I have alluded to this before and I think it may be true hearing those quotes yesterday -- I think ten Hag at his core is far more of a "pragmatist" manager than a truly Cruijffian principle type of guy that we expected him to be. People can mitigate his signings by saying we should have someone in place to deal with that etc... but at the core of his signings has been a massive lack of 1. press resistant players and 2. players who massively excel at short passing game. Whether or not Pep has his extremely efficient DOF in place, he's never lining up with a midfield three of Mount, Fernandes and Casemiro with their 80% passing accuracy as his ideal midfield three.
I think he was passing by at Ajax and a lot of the puzzle pieces were in place. Maybe how he sets us up is a lot more in line with his Utrecht and Go Ahead Eagles styles, I wonder.
Begining of an end. Also, that interview is bs, you got hired (people wanted you) because of the way Ajax played.
Thread should be renamed "Sack Watch". We've been shait every game this season.
I'm not even sure if Ten Hags transfer activity improves us over time.
Antony - £85M?
Mount £60M?
His best transfer has been Eriksen, and that's mostly because he came for free.
I'm not even sure if Ten Hags transfer activity improves us over time.
Antony - £85M?
Mount £60M?
His best transfer has been Eriksen, and that's mostly because he came for free.
That’s sort of my point though, a CEO doesn’t seem to be a big part of the footballing side, that falls to Murtough and Fletcher. Arnold is a glazer man, but since they own us any subsequent CEO they would hire would be too, whether it be someone like VDS or a businessman.
I don’t blame him for the transfers ultimately because I don’t think he should be in that position.
They’ve also not really had much tangible effect in reality.
I don’t agree with that I think Poch was probably the more popular choice at the time. That’s how it felt to me anyway.
Massive issue around here. People become weirdly obsessive about mangers that have largely been absolute failures. Ole's shortcomings were absolutely glaring as are ETH's.
I wish people could be more objective about our managers. ETH done a pretty good job last season and I expected him to kick on. This season has been an absolute mess though. We actually played some nice football at times last season but this season has mirrored Jose and Ole's worst brand of football. I just can't see what he's trying to do whatsoever; we have zero identity, zero gameplan and zero cohesion.
In saying that; the club is totally broken and whoever comes in will likely fail unless they are allowed to overhaul the squad, which they won't be allowed to do. Who is actually available and will come in and be 'the right man'? I'm not seeing many great candidates; Potter would be a terrible appointment, and I really hope we don't go there.
It’s difficult to say isn’t it, I genuinely don’t know how you become qualified for a role like that outside of doing it a previous clubs, which I imagine is why we’re reportedly looking at the one who left Monaco. I think once we settle on a structure though you have to continue it through managers otherwise there isn’t a set structure anyway. From all we’ve heard out of the manager all the footballing people have a say and Veto’s on transfers, I think that is pretty normal for how clubs are run and I wouldn’t expect it to change if we sack Ten Hag or Murtough.
But he is in that position and its clear he asked for control. So who do we blame? Yes sure Glazers etc, but this is also why ETH will be sacked either sooner or when JR takes over
Postecoglu has done just that. And nobody knew or expected that when Spurs hired him, so that begs the question as to whether there are other 'unknown' managers out there that could do the same? The club should do their homework for once instead of listening to the fans who have limited knowledge.
And you say that you will accept you backed the wrong horse if I can point you to an alternative. Well, at the time we hired ETH there were numerous other managers available. I believe we could have got somebody like Tuchel, who also went to a dysfunctional Chelsea and won them the CL. You and I can't predict which manager would do what here. I can suggest names and you will find a game they lost or a bad season and dismiss them, basically making every manager bar Guardiola look crap. But my belief these days is that you keep trying until you find something that works. Real Madrid have done it, Chelsea in the past, even City in the past. Lots of clubs aren't stuck to this idea that you pick one manager and die on that sword.
Assuming those quotes are true about not playing like Ajax. If I were in charge of the club I'd be meeting with him right now to ask him why the feck not? I'd also ask him to tell me what he needs for that to not be the case, because surely he was brought to United in order to bring exactly what he did at Ajax to United, even if it would take time and a full overhaul of the squad to do it.
This is where the 'football operations' and owners have messed up royally once again by putting expectations of a first season CL qualification etc on him. It should have been mapped out as a long term project with lower immediate expectations as long as there were clear signs of transitioning to the style of football and squad profile needed for that brand of football.
This is where the 'football operations' and owners have messed up royally once again by putting expectations of a first season CL qualification etc on him. It should have been mapped out as a long term project with lower immediate expectations as long as there were clear signs of transitioning to the style of football and squad profile needed for that brand of football.
Pretty much
If this is true, and based on what we are seeing, it makes sense to be true, I am really done.
This club really needed someone to implement a modern style of football similar to what the top teams play and this guy knew how to teach that. That is supposedly why he was selected. Instead, he agreed to come and implement something entirely different in which he has not excelled before? Apparently, because noone had the guts to do an overhaul of the squad.
And the people responsible found that a good idea, and ETH also believed, yeah I will make it work why not. I really cannot get my head around that.
You have to blame him for transfers when it was a major condition of him signing a contract......
Not like it's a responsibility foisted upon him is it.
We played comfortably the best team in the league yesterday, with Dalot and Lindelof as full backs, and then Evans, Maguire, Amrabat and McTominay as the essential unit of 4 if you're to have any hope of beating city.
There was no possible outcome yesterday other than being soundly beaten.
There was no possible outcome yesterday other than being soundly beaten.
Why would Ratcliffe sack him over the control of transfers? From how I understand it he can be vetoed currently. It’s not total control. Other people have to agree with him hence why I don’t think it’s his fault in that regard. I think he should just be a coach.
But these are two of the same issue. They have seemingly been largely bypassed because ETH wanted that. We have read and heard a lot about ETH's agent getting involved with deals, which has pushed peoples noses out of place. We've signed so many players he has worked with and are clearly his signings. We've heard stories about the scouts being ignored for Ten Hags own recommendations. All of it is a culmination of a situation that ETH has created. He completely dismissed Rangnick also, who was possibly the best 'footballing mind' to be associated with the club in a long time.
Blame the people which allowed the situation despite him having a relatively poor track record on transfers at Ajax. His success at Ajax was due to him being a great coach.
At a club the size of United we should only be hiring people with prior experience in that role. I haven't heard any reports of people at United vetoing Ten Hag's targets. We need someone who has the balls to say to Ten Hag "we're not signing Antony as Ajax are demanding too much money. Here are a list of other right wingers with similar attributes who cost less". Same could be said for the Mount and Onana transfers.
With the greatest respect you know nothing pal. We've already been down the shithouse route with Jose. We are run by idiots but even they aren't stupid enough to hire an even bigger shithouse in Simeone.
Yes losing and ignoring Rangnick was obviously a big mistake. It’s almost funny how little time it took him to work out just how rotten the structure is. Fair play to him for having the balls to say it too.
Yes I also don’t like the agent stuff but obviously gets signed off on by those above him. He simply shouldn’t have carte blanche.
I’d like to see him given 12 months after Ratcliffe installs a new structure personally. Just to be a coach. Then if no improvements sure get rid.
good job ETH didnt splash a load of money on a ballplaying goalkeeper then, that kind of thing is frowned upon here
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