Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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spiriticon said:
If ETH can't or won't get us to play like his old Ajax team, then the point of him actually being here is zero. Our past managers are better than him at doing maverick style counterattacking football. From what I observe, he doesn't seem to have a natural feel for the game. Everything he does (tactics, subs, lineups) is by the textbook and careful prep, and not really through intuition.

And also, why did he buy so many ex-Ajax players if he had no plans to play that way? Boggling.
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I get that sense too. Everything can only work under ideal conditions.
 
Embarrassing listening to united fans bang on about ETH. Give the man longer.
 
RedRonaldo said:
You mean FDJ and Kane? Those players he will never get at Ajax either. (FDJ won’t rejoin them).
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The two most important players he wanted the club didn’t get. I can’t explain how much of a difference it would make to have FDJ instead of Casemiro, who was a panic signing.
 
evil_geko said:
"Fraud, tactically inept", gold fish memory strikes again for some of you, "Tactically inept fraud" that destroyed Real Madrid and many other big clubs in Champions League with Ajax, right...

Don't embarrass yourselves with comments like that. Problem is what he said in that interview comment, where instead of implementing his original style, he went with something different he imagined for United. Big mistake there. I think he tried to play his style in first season at start, got smashed in several first games where he saw this group of players can't do it and went full pragmatic to whole different idea. Big mistake.

But calling him fraud and all that shit is pretty childish and stupid, people going to extremes, looking only in black and white etc, it is much more nuanced than that, but sometimes I think average year of age on this forum is 12yo or something.
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Oh yes, we are all 12 years old. Which begs the question, why can so many 12 year olds spot flaws, weaknesses in ETHs tactics and predict what will happen before they do? Just think how easy it is for any other manager. One good cup run at Ajax proves nothing. The rest of the time he was getting dumped out of the CL and EL by average teams at Ajax.
 
evil_geko said:
"Fraud, tactically inept", gold fish memory strikes again for some of you, "Tactically inept fraud" that destroyed Real Madrid and many other big clubs in Champions League with Ajax, right...

Don't embarrass yourselves with comments like that. Problem is what he said in that interview comment, where instead of implementing his original style, he went with something different he imagined for United. Big mistake there. I think he tried to play his style in first season at start, got smashed in several first games where he saw this group of players can't do it and went full pragmatic to whole different idea. Big mistake.

But calling him fraud and all that shit is pretty childish and stupid, people going to extremes, looking only in black and white etc, it is much more nuanced than that, but sometimes I think average year of age on this forum is 12yo or something.
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Technically he only eliminated Real and Juventus in that one season, after that he got eliminated by Valencia, Getafe, Roma and Benfica. They had one good cup run 4 years ago and were then found out by teams they should mostly be beating with that squad.
 
Berbaclass said:
The two most important players he wanted the club didn’t get. I can’t explain how much of a difference it would make to have FDJ instead of Casemiro, who was a panic signing.
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So what you're saying is that De Jong is the only footballer in the known universe that allows Ten Hag to play football the way he wants it to be played? Got ya.
 
groovyalbert said:
ETH thrived in a club where the setup was ideal. Excellent football structure, clear long-term vision. His job at Ajax was to get the right football out of the crop of players at his disposal.

The above is clearly not what he's encountered at Utd. He's seemingly leading on transfer targets, and the ask of him and his team go far deeper than what was asked at Ajax. That's a huge issue because ETH having a say in areas he's not previously had experience is causing issues.

I think ETH is still the right manager (although his recent comments on performances are somewhat baffling, not sure what else he should be saying mind), but we need a better football structure behind the manager, who is effectively the head coach.

All progressive football clubs are structured this way now, and it will be impossible to bring in a modern manager and expect anything different from what we're currently seeing due to the scope of demands we force upon our managers.
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If he survives this season I bet Murtough or who ever won't be offering the previous level of trust or latitude when it comes to his transfer choices.
We may have seen the last of the Erediverie connection.
 
RedUnited86 said:
So what you're saying is that De Jong is the only footballer in the known universe that allows Ten Hag to play football the way he wants it to be played? Got ya.
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No I’m saying that Casemiro as an alternative was a very bizarre decision. The polar opposite.
 
The problem is bigger than a manager. But lets say you do decide to part ways with EtH.

Then the next guy in is not going to want Antony. Let's say Sancho leave in Jan. Rashford and Bruno are still going to be themselves and struggle to change. A new CF to help Hojlund. Casemiro will need replacing in the next 12 months. Varane the same.

The money outlay/wasted would be immense.

The club needs an owner who can get hold of the whole thing first.
 
pocco said:
Oh yes, we are all 12 years old. Which begs the question, why can so many 12 year olds spot flaws, weaknesses in ETHs tactics and predict what will happen before they do? Just think how easy it is for any other manager. One good cup run at Ajax proves nothing. The rest of the time he was getting dumped out of the CL and EL by average teams at Ajax.
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Oh yes, you are just strengthening my point, it is also childish thing to actually believe you know better than professional managers. And like you proved, many on here do that, so my 12yo point just got strengthened. Cheers.
 
He’s been terrible since the Carabao Final.

The biggest reason why he should be sacked eventually is because this team has no strengths and many weaknesses.

What do we excel at as a team? Absolutely nothing. We can’t create or score, can’t defend and we aren’t good in possession.

We can do some of those things well in one-off games but on the whole there is no real way to describe our football under him because it’s just a cocktail of randomness.

Last season I felt the defence was the strongest part of our team and even then it didn’t stop us from getting pasted quite a few times.
 
Sarni said:
Technically he only eliminated Real and Juventus in that one season, after that he got eliminated by Valencia, Getafe, Roma and Benfica. They had one good cup run 4 years ago and were then found out by teams they should mostly be beating with that squad.
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Some of these lot didn't do their homework. They can't just admit that they backed the wrong horse - it's frustrating. We saw the same thing with Ole, and it led us to a very dark place as a club. Standards are well and truly in the gutter.
 
pocco said:
Some of these lot didn't do their homework. They can't just admit that they backed the wrong horse - it's frustrating. We saw the same thing with Ole, and it led us to a very dark place as a club. Standards are well and truly in the gutter.
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Who at the club ultimately sets the standards?
 
Berbaclass said:
The two most important players he wanted the club didn’t get. I can’t explain how much of a difference it would make to have FDJ instead of Casemiro, who was a panic signing.
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Apparently he can’t get the team to play the way he wants without that 1 single player there.

I am done with him if that’s all he could do. Prefer a manager who could improve our whole system of play, instead of relying everything on that one player.
 
evil_geko said:
Oh yes, you are just strengthening my point, it is also childish thing to actually believe you know better than professional managers. And like you proved, many on here do that, so my 12yo point just got strengthened. Cheers.
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Maybe I do? Maybe I know the PL better than ETH. Maybe we all do. I've been here before, heard all the same shit from Ole-inners. He is being exposed whether you like it or not, practically every manager in the league has his number and it's just a question of whether they have the players to put us to the sword.
 
pocco said:
Some of these lot didn't do their homework. They can't just admit that they backed the wrong horse - it's frustrating. We saw the same thing with Ole, and it led us to a very dark place as a club. Standards are well and truly in the gutter.
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I know the feeling, I was there with Ole because I genuinely liked him so much that I was refusing to accept his shortcomings as a manager.

ETH is the as Moyes for me. I've actually grown to dislike him and his demeanor, and I do not rate the job he's done here at all.
 
If he was only interested in playing in the mythical united way why did he insist on getting the lead say on transfers?

Smacks of him trying to backtrack on what he promised at interview and has thoroughly failed to deliver
 
RedRonaldo said:
Apparently he can’t get the team to play the way he wants without that 1 single player there.
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It's rinse and repeat with Sancho discussions that took place for two years where he needed a specific full back, midfielder and striker to do well here.
 
That interview claiming he can't play a similar style to Ajax is deeply worrying. He's spent an absolute fortune on players and apparently still has no plan to develop a coherent style.

Is the plan really to try and hit teams on the counter? Is that it?

We all know the issues the club has with the ownership but his job is to get results. Both results and performances have been frankly shocking this season, he's in the last chance saloon
 
RedRonaldo said:
Apparently he can’t get the team to play the way he wants without that 1 single player there.
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Because the squad is full of average, technically poor players. Top to bottom we are an antiquated football club and we thought the problem would be solved by hiring a good coach. Ultimately everything surrounding him isn’t up to standard.
 
Berbaclass said:
Who at the club ultimately sets the standards?
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Well in my opinion, if the club won't do it then the supporters should. We just enable them to do nothing and let us fall to pieces.

But to answer your question - seemingly nobody. We have a situation where the Glazers, through to Arnold, Murtough and ETH have all insulated themselves with 'yes men' who have eachothers back. Jobs for the boys, as they say.
 
Berbaclass said:
Because the squad is full of average, technically poor players. Top to bottom we are an antiquated football club and we thought the problem would be solved by hiring a good coach. Ultimately everything surrounding him isn’t up to standard.
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How many technically good players could he have signed with £400m? That excuse just doesn't wash.

Besides, I don't think all of the players are as bad as you make out. Nobody said this last year when we finished third. We have some good players.
 
pocco said:
Well in my opinion, if the club won't do it then the supporters should. We just enable them to do nothing and let us fall to pieces.

But to answer your question - seemingly nobody. We have a situation where the Glazers, through to Arnold, Murtough and ETH have all insulated themselves with 'yes men' who have eachothers back. Jobs for the boys, as they say.
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Exactly there are no football people at the club in key positions and that massively contributes to the mess.
 
It's a shame to hear from ETH what I suspected.

The fans picked him and wanted change, even if it's small, we have to start, the earlier the better. It was alarming to hear him talking about looking into past teams of United and figuring out a plan of transition after a full year here, the people at the club picked the fan choice and had no idea what to do when he came and he's in the dark also. He's had the funds to at least start us in a better way, sell Bruno get Maddison in. This DNA notion is silly, City had no DNA.

This transition idea doesn't generate goals that well and he's pretty much killed off our attackers this season.

Of course he needs support from the structure at the club, a managers knowledge of players are limited, it requires a team to go through players 24/7. Said from the start, right man wrong club and he needs huge support, could be wasting his years here. Some people have said it was in place with Murtough and co but I've seen two summers of manager indulgement and now a rubbish hastily drawn up plan of transition football after a year here.

It will be another useless exercise, and hundreds of millions spent.
 
Berbaclass said:
Because the squad is full of average, technically poor players. Top to bottom we are an antiquated football club and we thought the problem would be solved by hiring a good coach. Ultimately everything surrounding him isn’t up to standard.
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Sure, we’ve spent 400m on average players under him, and that’s not his fault too. Should give him 4 billion to spent.
 
Strelok said:
I forgot one thing that's our injuries. What I said might makes you think that we've always been a mess under ETH but that's simply not true.

Imo one very important thing about this kind of football is it's very sophisticated. Like anything sophisticated it got broken easily when one or a few important pieces are missing and there's no adequate replacement. For example as well oiled and having a huge squad as City they were still having a pretty hard time missing only Rodri for the their last few matches. So atm we look like a mess imo it's hugely because we're missing our first choice players.

Last season we were able to implement his football to some extent and played fairly well when we have the most of our first XI available. So imo we'd look much better when we have them back. Hope soon enough to save his ass though. And also us from watching this crap.
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That would be a valid point if we played good football with Martinez/Varane/Shaw at the beginning of the season. We looked shite since ETH changed the setup (late stage of pre-season).
I also don't think the setup is "sophisticated" at all, it just relies too much on Martinez to bring the ball from defence to attacking formation (bypassing the midfield). It's not sustainable tactics.

Aretak said:
His problem is that he's rapidly going to run out of allies in the dressing room if he does that. Everybody knows what a lot of players in this squad are like. If they don't fancy the manager, they stop trying and start talking to their mates in the media instead. Yes, in an ideal world Ten Hag would take a hard line and eventually change the dressing room culture, but I simply don't believe that's possible without turfing out half the squad, and that's simply not going to happen (especially given the club's financial situation). I think he's already played his cards as far as binning players goes. He got rid of Ronaldo, he got rid of De Gea, he got rid of Sancho, he took the captaincy off of Maguire. He's brought in a bunch of people he's previously managed and should be willing to run through brick walls for him. At some point he actually has to start getting some results before he can throw any more people under the nearest bus. Sir Alex could do whatever he liked because his position was untouchable. Ten Hag is a few players downing tools away from losing his job.
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This. There is no way out of this situation for ETH imo, he either gets some results and gradually rebuilds faith in him, or he will be gone soon.
Not that I think firing him makes much sense.
 
pocco said:
How many technically good players could he have signed with £400m? That excuse just doesn't wash.
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His signings are and have been proven outside United to be technically sound. It’s no coincidence that every player we sign bar literally one of two instantly seems to regress. Over a period of what 10 years? Why is that? The problem isn’t the manager it’s obviously something deeper.
 
I personally think he has enough credit in the bank after last season…. and also let’s be honest I didn’t speak or hear anyone yesterday at the game that saw that team sheet against city’s best team on paper and think we could win… hope yes but not realistically.
Old Trafford has been city’s dance floor on so many occasions over the last 10 years. That is not a ten Hag issue.

Yesterday hurt and was another reminder of how far we are from where we were. what hurt the most was the lack of effort, determination and quality from the players selected. If a manager has to wind his players up to do the basics of competing in a derby then we have the wrong characters and personalities in this club.

I see no reason to be optimistic that sacking him and bringing in yet another manager solves this issue.

My worry for him however is how these next 10 days pan out. Get knocked out of the carabao cup on Weds and a poor result against Copenhagan (basically out of the champions league) and I’m sure the pressure applied by fans and media will see the cycle happen again. We can rinse and repeat this same discussion in 18 months time.

I just hope we can get some injured players back and at least put out what resembles our best team in a game for the first time this season.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Sure, we’ve spent 400m on average players under him, and that’s not his fault too. Should give him 4 billion to spent.
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No it shouldn’t be his job to identify targets, just like it wasn’t at Ajax. The structure has failed him by affording him too much power in that respect but the blame ultimately lies with the people above him.
 
Yesterday with Eriksen in midfield pretty much on his own that second half, reminded me of when Fergie put Giggs in the midfield vs Barca.
Absolutely no chance of winning the ball back.
 
pocco said:
Hopefully that will soon be sorted, but the two are separate issues. On the pitch ETH has enough at his disposal to play good football.
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He needs to start making some big decisions or he will be gone yes. He can’t persist picking some of the players. They will ruin him.
 
pocco said:
He wanted that responsibility to take the job - this was reported a lot at the time (and celebrated on here!).
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That’s fair enough but we shouldn’t have hired him then if that’s what he wanted. That just isn’t modern football.
 
Berbaclass said:
Exactly there are no football people at the club in key positions and that massively contributes to the mess.
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I don’t think that’s quite true anymore though. Murtough has worked in football in multiple roles for decades, and I’m not sure what job Darren Fletcher is actually doing but he’s certainly a football man. It’s a lot different to when we had Woodward leading us. It’s difficult for us fans to be able to tell if the actual structure needs another reboot, but it doesn’t seem to have done its job at present.
 
pocco said:
He should go anyway in my opinion. I've seen enough to know he isn't the guy to take us back to the top and compete with the likes of City. He's just not good enough.
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I’ve seen enough managers beat the brunt of poor performances to not want to side with the players anymore.

The only thing I’m willing to criticise him for currently is his team selection. It’s just strange. Mount is a bit alarming the way he just now doesn’t seem to fancy him.
 
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