Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

He chose to buy Mount and then put him in the first game of the season when we didn't have such a ridiculous injury list, changed our style to have a single defensive midfielder and then two others playing right up top with the strikers.

It's a conscious choice by ETH with or without injuries, it's suicidal and it makes zero sense. I get he wants us to win the ball up high but this is an extremely myopic way of doing it that leaves us so ridiculously exposed.

Whoever told him this was a good idea wants checking into a mental asylum.

That decision alone makes me want to smack anyone that sits and disagrees with those of us who thought it was a stupid signing even before we got Mount in the summer KNOWING that playing him and Bruno as dual 8's wouldn't work. All I had to hear was how ETH clearly knows best and knows more football than any of us so he deserves our full support on every signing. Ridiculous honestly

 

[Oranges038]

Other still images from last game.

We might have problems with poor players but also we have very poor tactics & set-up.

Very noticeable watching the game how far apart the players were in possession. I'd imagine it's even more noticeable at the game, I have no idea what the purpose is or the thinking behind it. It achieves nothing.

I think being that far apart results in slow passing because it's too easy for the opposition to get behind the ball and close off passing lines. It then leads to static players, because there's less options to move the ball quickly and create overloads and runs off the ball.

 

[Sarni]

because they bought better players, had a better foundation and have almost zero pressure/expectation to win every game like United do.. they just lost against an average Dortmund and everyone just shrugs their shoulders

They had a better foundation? That team looked like it was going to get relegated before Howe took over. They were 19th after 11 games, 5 points off 17th. If anything they had no foundation.

They bought quite well since (whilst spending far less money than us during that time) but Howe’s coaching must be a big part of that turnaround.

 

[city-puma]

They had a better foundation? That team looked like it was going to get relegated before Howe took over. They were 19th after 11 games, 5 points off 17th. If anything they had no foundation.

They bought quite well since (whilst spending far less money than us during that time) but Howe’s coaching must be a big part of that turnaround.

They spent really well and got almost every transfer spot on for their need. The one doesn’t work out long term is Chris Wood. Anyone else does not work out?

 

[Teja]

They spent really well and got almost every transfer spot on for their need. The one doesn’t work out long term is Chris Wood. Anyone else does not work out?

It's impossible to say how much is coaching and how much is the transfer strategy.

Almiron, Burn, Wilson, Botman in this United side will be half the players. Are longstaff and joelinton better than Eriksen, Mount and Bruno?

Partly it's the expectations as well. It's not instant drama as soon as they lose or draw one game.

 

[city-puma]

It's impossible to say how much is coaching and how much is the transfer strategy.

Almiron, Burn, Wilson, Botman in this United side will be half the players.

Partly it's the expectations as well. It's not instant drama as soon as they lose or draw one game.

Of course, they also make their life easy by creating high score winnings one by one to excite their fans. The positive feedback between the team and the fans is awesome. I hope ETH can do the same but he has to lift us from the survival mode first and foremost.

 

[Theonas]

Of course, they also make their life easy by creating high score winnings one by one to excite their fans. The positive feedback between the team and the fans is awesome. I hope ETH can do the same but he has to lift us from the survival mode first and foremost.

You do realise that what Newcastle are doing would still be considered not good enough by Manchester United standards? Finishing in the top 4 and reaching a cup final got Howe being talked about as manager of the year and you couldn't find a single criticism for their campaign. Similar feat for us with actually winning the cup and the best reaction from the media is "encouraging" with some seeing it as a negative in how it is a symbol for our downfall that we're happy with such return. I am not complaining as that is flattering and it means we're still being treated as an elite club, but the gulf in expectations and what we're measured up against couldn't be wider. Oh, and there is 1 point between us and Newcastle this season so far, how do you think is the perception of our seasons among the public and the media?

 

[FrankWhite]

It's impossible to say how much is coaching and how much is the transfer strategy.

Almiron, Burn, Wilson, Botman in this United side will be half the players. Are longstaff and joelinton better than Eriksen, Mount and Bruno?

Partly it's the expectations as well. It's not instant drama as soon as they lose or draw one game.

With all the talk about how good they are, they didn't finish above us last season, lost to us in the cup final and I believe they'll finish below us again this season. They got spanked by Brighton and lost to a 10 man Liverpool team, after being ahead.

 

[FrankWhite]

You do realise that what Newcastle are doing would still be considered not good enough by Manchester United standards? Finishing in the top 4 and reaching a cup final got Howe being talked about as manager of the year and you couldn't find a single criticism for their campaign. Similar feat for us with actually winning the cup and the best reaction from the media is "encouraging" with some seeing it as a negative in how it is a symbol for our downfall that we're happy with such return. I am not complaining as that is flattering and it means we're still being treated as an elite club, but the gulf in expectations and what we're measured up against couldn't be wider. Oh, and there is 1 point between us and Newcastle this season so far, how do you think is the perception of our seasons among the public and the media?

Couldn't agree more.

 

[NZT-One]

There's massive expectation from the Geordie's, they're a one town football club and a 'big club' apparently. I watched their game last night and they look better coached than any of our lads, they fought more, the ran more, they wanted it more and they had a clear plan. We look absolutely clueless outside of individual moments of brilliance. I wouldn't say that's got anything to do with expectation or pressure, it's the manager setting the team up in a way that they believe they can get something as a unit.

Well said. It also shows what confidence can do to a team. Some good results at the right time and it gets easier for players to buy into the managers plan. Lets hope, that ETH will cut the corner at some point and we see some of the effects we are seeing from distance in other clubs. The expectation level some are mentioning is definitely a thing though. Surely helps if the level of scrutiny is a bit less than in a high pressure situation like Man United. But lets face it, it might be unfair but this won't go away. If it goes away, it will mean that we really faded away as a top club. Nobody should feel embarassed because "what Newcastle are doing" but we certainly should keep our eyes open and look around, might be things going on in other places that could be benefitial for us too.

A lot of this has been discussed at length, some of it before the season kicked off as even the midfield intent, with out personnel was an obvious disaster waiting to happen that would kill the DM as there is no way to cover all that space; it’s an impossible setup unless everything is flawless, which it has never been close to being.

What concerns me more than anything else of the burgeoning issues is ten Hag looking like he doesn’t know how to setup up a functioning midfield that can control games. I would like to think FDJ wasn’t some outlier that created a perfect storm and that he can actually recreate something similar without him. The isolation issue is a serious one, and it’s coming about because our midfielders don’t move or look to create easy inlets for triangulation or even simple 1-2’s. Nobody knows what they’re doing, and if there is a brief of what they should be doing, they’re not doing it. Doing. Not been done.

I never had these doubts about the manager even last season where we were regressing, but the transfer window, into preseason and everything after has been one misstep after another. This is the time when he has to show he has the nous to change course and take a different approach.

This is brought up a lot and I do agree with it and with this being an expectation I had, when he was appointed. The thing is though, at this point, I struggle to say what is more likely - that ETH is really unable to make that team play with more control OR if that really isn't the idea anymore and he has bought into the "best transition team".

I mean, after all, his good season last year was built on such way and it wouldn't be too outlandish to think, that he might try to focus more on that than on possession. I am pretty sure, before he joined, there were articles about him not being as concerned with control or possession as Pep or LVG but he said, he like the way Klopp is playing.

 

[city-puma]

You do realise that what Newcastle are doing would still be considered not good enough by Manchester United standards? Finishing in the top 4 and reaching a cup final got Howe being talked about as manager of the year and you couldn't find a single criticism for their campaign. Similar feat for us with actually winning the cup and the best reaction from the media is "encouraging" with some seeing it as a negative in how it is a symbol for our downfall that we're happy with such return. I am not complaining as that is flattering and it means we're still being treated as an elite club, but the gulf in expectations and what we're measured up against couldn't be wider. Oh, and there is 1 point between us and Newcastle this season so far, how do you think is the perception of our seasons among the public and the media?

I have zero interest in the perception of our seasons among public and the media. I only care about how I feel and what I expect, especially when I compare our performance in the league and CL with the other lesser clubs.
My perception about NU’s previous season and current season so far is that they did exceptionally well. They apparently turned the corner after a hard start fixture this season. We in the meantime are still deep in survival mode after the easy fixture.

 

[Theonas]

I have zero interest in the perception of our seasons among public and the media. I only care about how I feel and what I expect, especially when I compare our performance in the league and CL with the other lesser clubs.
My perception about NU’s previous season and current season so far is that they did exceptionally well. They apparently turned the corner after a hard start fixture this season. We in the meantime are still deep in survival mode after the easy fixture.

To use your words, what you feel, expect and your perception is affected by the status of the clubs. If we turned up the exact same performances and results as Newcastle did in the period you're talking about, the feeling, expectations and perceptions, including yours would be different. It's like when a smaller club throws bodies on the line, have 20% possession and sneak a 1/0 away from home at OT, the feeling and perception are positive. If a big club produces the exact same performance, it's negative. Newcastle are coming across well because of who they are, for now I should add. We are held to a much higher standard. Feelings alone are misleading, you have to apply context to them to get a more accurate picture.

 

[city-puma]

To use your words, what you feel, expect and your perception is affected by the status of the clubs. If we turned up the exact same performances and results as Newcastle did in the period you're talking about, the feeling, expectations and perceptions, including yours would be different. It's like when a smaller club throws bodies on the line, have 20% possession and sneak a 1/0 away from home at OT, the feeling and perception are positive. If a big club produces the exact same performance, it's negative. Newcastle are coming across well because of who they are, for now I should add. We are held to a much higher standard. Feelings alone are misleading, you have to apply context to them to get a more accurate picture.

I never deny the perceived status of the club has impacts on what some people might feel. But what’s your point? Do you want to tell me that the reason I think them doing well is simply because they are lesser club with lower expectations on standard? Are you teaching me how I should feel and even telling me my feelings are misleading? I think you are very special really.

 

[croadyman]

You can add Chelsea, West Ham and even Villa on boxing day to that. They're all very capable of taking points or beating us right now. The fixtures look just as tough in January too. We're going to drop a lot of points over the next few months.

Yeah Spurs will fancy it here on Jan 14,had completely forgotten we had those others to play in December,ouch would sum it up perfectly

 

[croadyman]

I really don't know what to say about Erik. I think he is great at man management, getting underperformed players out of United. Why is McTominay even starring a game? Since he score, Erik decided that McTominay is the answer to our midfield problem. McTominay should only start if we have injury crisis or when we need a score. McTominay shouldn't be starting games as he doesn't hold the ball well, doesn't pass well and doesn't track runners. If he starts McTominay against City, he is giving City an advantage. We already have Bruno who is a culprit of giving balls away so we can't have 2 liability on the field. Why is Rashford starting? What has he contributed this season? I really hope he has a game plan against City else it is a guarantee lost. Please do something different! Drop Antony, play 4-4-2 with Rashford and Hoijund upfront. Compact midfield and do counter attack. Let's hope he does something different.

Yeah he definitely needs to do something different on Sunday,like I have already said in previous posts Bruno & Rashford need to fear for their place. Think it might be the only way it puts a fire under them to perform.

They just wouldn't get away with this level of performance under Guardiola who thinks nothing of dropping big players. The likes of Hannibal must be feeling proper fed up with not getting a chance,also Sancho had a point but as someone pointed out he went about it in the wrong way.

 

[DJ_21]

It's impossible to say how much is coaching and how much is the transfer strategy.

Almiron, Burn, Wilson, Botman in this United side will be half the players. Are longstaff and joelinton better than Eriksen, Mount and Bruno?

Partly it's the expectations as well. It's not instant drama as soon as they lose or draw one game.

Ye it’s also about mentality. We have players with weak mentality that crumble under pressure. Obviously at clubs like Newcastle theirs less pressure so anything good they do is seen as a bonus and their motivated to do well.

 

[croadyman]

1) Too arrogant to keep ragnick on.
2) only sign from his pool of ex players.
3) Seemly can't drop anthony
4) can't drop bruno
5) can't drop rashford
6) terrible man management
7) I dont think you can see his vision on the pitch after nearly 2 years.

Why are we even discussing this. The man is dutch moyes without personality.

I think the biggest problems on that list would be 3,4 and 5,our better performance came in a game when none of them played which is telling

 

[Fortitude]

This is brought up a lot and I do agree with it and with this being an expectation I had, when he was appointed. The thing is though, at this point, I struggle to say what is more likely - that ETH is really unable to make that team play with more control OR if that really isn't the idea anymore and he has bought into the "best transition team".

I mean, after all, his good season last year was built on such way and it wouldn't be too outlandish to think, that he might try to focus more on that than on possession. I am pretty sure, before he joined, there were articles about him not being as concerned with control or possession as Pep or LVG but he said, he like the way Klopp is playing.

There's a few arguments that can be brought to the table in countenance of the concern, and perhaps the most valid of them all is that if our front line were firing and converting the openings and misses, the lack of control in midfield would be of much less concern; carrying that over to any kind of Klopp idealism the manager might have, that's a massive discrepancy between what his sides do (score lots of goals), and what we constantly fail to do.

If we put forth that all a midfield needs to do is funnel the ball to the attacking line and let them do their thing, whilst themselves then only having to win ball back to then recycle it back to the front line again, as succinctly as possible, we still fall short by such margins that you think that can't possibly be what we set out to do, or if it is, then we're rubbish at it.

The issue I have is that we're not about anything in midfield and we're below average at every metric I can think of:

- possession
- pressing
- chance creation
- positioning
- tracking runners
- aggression
- stamina
- athleticism

So what are we doing? What are we supposed to be about, even? When I watch our midfield, it looks like a bunch of strangers who have not trained together - there's no synergy between any of them in any aspect: passing, pressing, tracking, covering for one another - nothing. Which has to be scrutinised because these players are teammates, training with one another every day. There might be a couple of more uncohesive units in the league, but that's by no means certain, which is why even Sheffield United can give us a game until our individual superiority wins through.

The first thing both Klopp and Pep do is get their midfield sorted. Pep infamously mocked for buying 564748 midfielders wherever he goes. Klopp's midfields aren't spectacular, but they do exactly the job he wants them to do, which leads to the frontline being on the right side of constant attack without a single doubt the men behind them will service them and uniformly track and work for them to win, and give, the ball back.

When Bruno (as an easy reference point) punts the ball to the opposition, frequently it ends with them having a go at our backline. There's an issue in that by itself as it means the midfield are not able to cover or cater for mishap; it tells us the shape isn't right and that there's real disfunction that it's something that is a dead certainty to happen a number of times per game irrespective of the opposition.

As we've seen across the top half of the league, it shouldn't take an eon to sort midfield. A few managers have fixed their in the space of a preseason.

 

[Toshey]

Other still images from last game.

We might have problems with poor players but also we have very poor tactics & set-up.

What a bunch of bullshit.
All screenshots from the first half.
Yes, he got it wrong in the first half and tried something that didn't work.

He immediately changed it in the second half, we looked much better and deservedly won the game.

But you won't see screenshots from the second half, because they don't fit the anti ETH narrative.

Seriously, this forum has sunk so low, that I'm certain if we beat City, many posters here will be gutted. More than actual city fans.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

What a bunch of bullshit.
All screenshots from the first half.
Yes, he got it wrong in the first half and tried something that didn't work.

He immediately changed it in the second half, we looked much better and deservedly won the game.

But you won't see screenshots from the second half, because they don't fit the anti ETH narrative.

Seriously, this forum has sunk so low, that I'm certain if we beat City, many posters here will be gutted. More than actual city fans.

It is indeed a bunch of sensationalist crap that wants to capitalize on the frustration of the fans to generate clicks. Whoever suggests that the answer to our build-up issues is to simply move more bodies in front of the press needs to give his/her head a wobble or start watching a different sport. Even in the screenshots he posted, there's not a single one in which we don't have numerical superiority. But, of course, the manager has to come on and progress the ball all by himself.

 

[Hammondo]

There's massive expectation from the Geordie's, they're a one town football club and a 'big club' apparently. I watched their game last night and they look better coached than any of our lads, they fought more, the ran more, they wanted it more and they had a clear plan. We look absolutely clueless outside of individual moments of brilliance. I wouldn't say that's got anything to do with expectation or pressure, it's the manager setting the team up in a way that they believe they can get something as a unit.

This was my point on the Ten Hag thread, the problem I have is our lack of standards, we truly don't seem to have any.

 

[Hammondo]

What a bunch of bullshit.
All screenshots from the first half.
Yes, he got it wrong in the first half and tried something that didn't work.

He immediately changed it in the second half, we looked much better and deservedly won the game.

But you won't see screenshots from the second half, because they don't fit the anti ETH narrative.

Seriously, this forum has sunk so low, that I'm certain if we beat City, many posters here will be gutted. More than actual city fans.

We are completely overrun in midfield in those pictures.

 

[Keanes Magic Hat]

I have zero interest in the perception of our seasons among public and the media. I only care about how I feel and what I expect, especially when I compare our performance in the league and CL with the other lesser clubs.
My perception about NU’s previous season and current season so far is that they did exceptionally well. They apparently turned the corner after a hard start fixture this season. We in the meantime are still deep in survival mode after the easy fixture.

I wouldn't say our fixtures are easy, not terrible but Arsenal and Spurs away two of the best form teams in the league and Brighton then as well.

Don't get me wrong it's still not been good enough but the grass always looks greener

 

[glazed]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...utd-going-backwards-time-to-question-ten-hag/

I hope I speak for everyone when I say 'Fek off you whinging deluded click bait dipper.'

"At the moment, Ten Hag realises he does not have the profile of midfielders required to build from the back as he did at Ajax. Nor does he have the personnel for a pressing game. The fact he cannot do this in his second year at Old Trafford is on him. He paid £70 million for Casemiro, who no longer has the legs for the job but still has four years left on a big contract, and brought in Christian Eriksen, who brings quality from the bench. The short-termism of those deals has repercussions, hence the recent signings of midfielders Mason Mount and Sofyan Amrabat.

Ten Hag is therefore paying for immediately compromising his principles. Without a radical shake-up of the squad he will continue to do so. That is his mistake as it was he - not the Glazers - who pursued those signings in his first summer, believing he had to hit the ground running when the club needed to consider the long-term direction."


"

 

[croadyman]

There's a few arguments that can be brought to the table in countenance of the concern, and perhaps the most valid of them all is that if our front line were firing and converting the openings and misses, the lack of control in midfield would be of much less concern; carrying that over to any kind of Klopp idealism the manager might have, that's a massive discrepancy between what his sides do (score lots of goals), and what we constantly fail to do.

If we put forth that all a midfield needs to do is funnel the ball to the attacking line and let them do their thing, whilst themselves then only having to win ball back to then recycle it back to the front line again, as succinctly as possible, we still fall short by such margins that you think that can't possibly be what we set out to do, or if it is, then we're rubbish at it.

The issue I have is that we're not about anything in midfield and we're below average at every metric I can think of:

- possession
- pressing
- chance creation
- positioning
- tracking runners
- aggression
- stamina
- athleticism

So what are we doing? What are we supposed to be about, even? When I watch our midfield, it looks like a bunch of strangers who have not trained together - there's no synergy between any of them in any aspect: passing, pressing, tracking, covering for one another - nothing. Which has to be scrutinised because these players are teammates, training with one another every day. There might be a couple of more uncohesive units in the league, but that's by no means certain, which is why even Sheffield United can give us a game until our individual superiority wins through.

The first thing both Klopp and Pep do is get their midfield sorted. Pep infamously mocked for buying 564748 midfielders wherever he goes. Klopp's midfields aren't spectacular, but they do exactly the job he wants them to do, which leads to the frontline being on the right side of constant attack without a single doubt the men behind them will service them and uniformly track and work for them to win, and give, the ball back.

When Bruno (as an easy reference point) punts the ball to the opposition, frequently it ends with them having a go at our backline. There's an issue in that by itself as it means the midfield are not able to cover or cater for mishap; it tells us the shape isn't right and that there's real disfunction that it's something that is a dead certainty to happen a number of times per game irrespective of the opposition.

As we've seen across the top half of the league, it shouldn't take an eon to sort midfield. A few managers have fixed their in the space of a preseason.

Yeah it's a definite concern when your midfield isn't delivering on any of those 8 metrics

 

[Licha-Vidic]

What a bunch of bullshit.
All screenshots from the first half.
Yes, he got it wrong in the first half and tried something that didn't work.

He immediately changed it in the second half, we looked much better and deservedly won the game.

But you won't see screenshots from the second half, because they don't fit the anti ETH narrative.

Seriously, this forum has sunk so low, that I'm certain if we beat City, many posters here will be gutted. More than actual city fans.

You act as if United has been controlling the midfield area and winning big games or trophies. This is not a once thing, it has been a recurring theme. But you know what it's a bunch of bullshit.

Its the coaching and the tactics which have sunk low, not the forum. The forum is a end product of the how the team plays. Just compare how Spur forum was 1 year ago and today..

We've been here before, and we will still be here when things will hit a brick wall. This kind of football is unsustainable, has been unsustainable and will be NEVER ENOUGH to win anything.

Football is not a second half narrative, its a 90 minute affair. Playing good for 10 minutes, 20,30 or second half is not enough.

Unless ETH changes how he setups don't expect miracles to happen.

We wait on Sunday we see how we setup and immediately you can tell how the game will go.

 

[Redstain]

It's impossible to say how much is coaching and how much is the transfer strategy.

Almiron, Burn, Wilson, Botman in this United side will be half the players. Are longstaff and joelinton better than Eriksen, Mount and Bruno?

Partly it's the expectations as well. It's not instant drama as soon as they lose or draw one game.

Which is another way of saying that Howe is a better coach than Erik.

I disagree with Botman however he's a solid defender and surprisingly fast for his size would play more games over a season compared to Varane. Tonali, Guimares, Trippier, Barnes (better than Sancho). They have good players and have the better balanced midfield over United.

 

[flappyjay]

They had a better foundation? That team looked like it was going to get relegated before Howe took over. They were 19th after 11 games, 5 points off 17th. If anything they had no foundation.

They bought quite well since (whilst spending far less money than us during that time) but Howe’s coaching must be a big part of that turnaround.

Yeah it is ignored that longstaff, Almiron Joelington, Murphy and Wilson were there before the money and the continue to get significant minutes. Changed joelington into a decent midfielder and continues to get the best of the other names. LascelIs is their 3rd choice cb ,this place would flip if we spent money on these guys. Is there even real pressure to win the league or champions league for Manchester United. No one expects it of us at this point in time.

 

[NZT-One]

There's a few arguments that can be brought to the table in countenance of the concern, and perhaps the most valid of them all is that if our front line were firing and converting the openings and misses, the lack of control in midfield would be of much less concern; carrying that over to any kind of Klopp idealism the manager might have, that's a massive discrepancy between what his sides do (score lots of goals), and what we constantly fail to do.

If we put forth that all a midfield needs to do is funnel the ball to the attacking line and let them do their thing, whilst themselves then only having to win ball back to then recycle it back to the front line again, as succinctly as possible, we still fall short by such margins that you think that can't possibly be what we set out to do, or if it is, then we're rubbish at it.

The issue I have is that we're not about anything in midfield and we're below average at every metric I can think of:

- possession
- pressing
- chance creation
- positioning
- tracking runners
- aggression
- stamina
- athleticism

So what are we doing? What are we supposed to be about, even? When I watch our midfield, it looks like a bunch of strangers who have not trained together - there's no synergy between any of them in any aspect: passing, pressing, tracking, covering for one another - nothing. Which has to be scrutinised because these players are teammates, training with one another every day. There might be a couple of more uncohesive units in the league, but that's by no means certain, which is why even Sheffield United can give us a game until our individual superiority wins through.

The first thing both Klopp and Pep do is get their midfield sorted. Pep infamously mocked for buying 564748 midfielders wherever he goes. Klopp's midfields aren't spectacular, but they do exactly the job he wants them to do, which leads to the frontline being on the right side of constant attack without a single doubt the men behind them will service them and uniformly track and work for them to win, and give, the ball back.

When Bruno (as an easy reference point) punts the ball to the opposition, frequently it ends with them having a go at our backline. There's an issue in that by itself as it means the midfield are not able to cover or cater for mishap; it tells us the shape isn't right and that there's real disfunction that it's something that is a dead certainty to happen a number of times per game irrespective of the opposition.

As we've seen across the top half of the league, it shouldn't take an eon to sort midfield. A few managers have fixed their in the space of a preseason.

Yeah very well said. I agree with your observation. For me, the only possible explanation is, that either the team isn't executing what ETH wants them to do or the players don't get his ideas or his ideas are really just bad. As you said, it looks as if nothing is really working at all, to me, that indicates that we are inbetween a big shift where everything moves and therefor nothing is where it is supposed to be. But you are also right with saying it is on the manager to handle that transition.

About the bolded part: I think, the challenge is simply bigger than expected. Last year we played on the counter, it wasn't pretty but mostly functional and everybody was fine with that. Maybe/Possibly/Probably last years setup was a compromise for ETH though. A step away from his principles to ease the transition. But this season, he wants to really execute his actual plan, box shaped midfield with inverting fullbacks. Injuries and disciplinary issues have torpedoed that pretty well though, some of the essential signings came in too late to have any meaningful work done in pre-season. I wouldn't want to switch with him, he is hard done by, but that doesn't mean, that some of his decisions aren't a bit weird. One can simply hope, that the coin will drop and he will apply his principles all across the squad and have players who do underperform lose their place. I think, at this point, the majority of the fanbase wouldn't get on his back if he left out Rashford for a while. Or Bruno. But at the same time, he is the manager, he is evaluated mostly for the results he is bringing so I can understand, that he is putting his money on his two matchwinners. It is a shame, that this squad doesn't have more than them...

Which is another way of saying that Howe is a better coach than Erik.

I disagree with Botman however he's a solid defender and surprisingly fast for his size would play more games over a season compared to Varane. Tonali, Guimares, Trippier, Barnes (better than Sancho). They have good players and have the better balanced midfield over United.

I agree. It is a bit of a shame, that those players were apparently too low profile for United. But not just for the decision makers, many fans wouldn't have liked us going for such players. Even when Botman and Guimaraes were known to be very decent players with the only risk being their chance to adjust to PL (something that was likely though given their physical nature). This is one of the things I really dislike about the fanbase, the notion, that the only players that can improve mighty ManUnited are the best of the best and anything below is just a waste of time. Being proud while simultaneously getting worse and worse...

 

[Rednotdead]

Ten Hag’s problem is that he’s far too rigid and inflexible. His certainty that he’s right makes him keep doing the same things when it’s clear to everyone else that what he’s doing isn’t working.

He also demonstrated extremely poor man management in his handling of the Sancho situation. It culminated in him losing the (albeit limited) services of a player but it didn’t need to end that way if he’d handled the matter quietly and privately instead of in public.

He’s not up to the job of managing a club like Utd.

 

[Remember the geese]

He also demonstrated extremely poor man management in his handling of the Sancho situation. It culminated in him losing the (albeit limited) services of a player but it didn’t need to end that way if he’d handled the matter quietly and privately instead of in public.

He already tried the softly, softly approach. It didn't work. Don't use Sancho's idiocy as a stick to beat ten Hag with.

 

[Kellyiom]

Yeah it's a definite concern when your midfield isn't delivering on any of those 8 metrics

when you put it like that..wow. Good post @Fortitude ; I guess I find it hard to believe there's so much weakness on areas related to fitness in that list of attributes. Our conditioning must be early 20th Century or something because loads of other sports have identified other training modes from other sports and adopted them into their regimes like Rugby League, Cycling, Tennis. Considering we're dealing with assets worth hundreds of millions of pounds it seems crazy yet also probably relatively 'easy' to fix. I think it's much more difficult to train skills or 'de-train' bad habits.

I've always wondered what goes on behind the scenes and maybe I'm simplifying it but presumably the manager tells the team collectively and individuals separately how he wants them to act? So why don't they just do everything he says and then it's not the player's problem, it's on the boss?
Maybe then the manager sees a player's stamina fading and he can tell him that he's not at the requisite fitness level.

Or are these weaknesses a result of ultimately not fully accepting what the coach/manager is telling them? Not having complete faith in the tactics, strategy and philosophy will definitely lead to the team only applying itself at 95% say and the PL is a harsh tutor. I think it also contributes to errors creeping in and I suppose tiredness is well-known as a source for errors.

Lack of belief and then imposing a new regime is what lies behind these 'new manager bounces' we often see I reckon.

Big clubs can rapidly head south unexpectedly after just a month of bad play and the lower clubs find themselves in a dogfight. Choppy waters ahead. This club! Rant over!

 

[Alex99]

Ten Hag’s problem is that he’s far too rigid and inflexible. His certainty that he’s right makes him keep doing the same things when it’s clear to everyone else that what he’s doing isn’t working.

He also demonstrated extremely poor man management in his handling of the Sancho situation. It culminated in him losing the (albeit limited) services of a player but it didn’t need to end that way if he’d handled the matter quietly and privately instead of in public.

He’s not up to the job of managing a club like Utd.

The same Sancho that was given extended leave away from the club partway through last season to sort himself out?

 

[Marcus]

Ten Hag’s problem is that he’s far too rigid and inflexible. His certainty that he’s right makes him keep doing the same things when it’s clear to everyone else that what he’s doing isn’t working.

He also demonstrated extremely poor man management in his handling of the Sancho situation. It culminated in him losing the (albeit limited) services of a player but it didn’t need to end that way if he’d handled the matter quietly and privately instead of in public.

He’s not up to the job of managing a club like Utd.

If Sancho is the only example you could scrape from the bottom of the barrel, your point that he has poor man management doesn't appear very well supported. I agree that he could be more flexibility in his tactics.

 

[Marcus]

The same Sancho that was given extended leave away from the club partway through last season to sort himself out?

This.

 

[USREDEVIL]

We should have let Sancho do whatever he wants. Maybe an increase in salary and 1 year off to "find himself" would work.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

Ten Hag’s problem is that he’s far too rigid and inflexible.

Is he, though? Didnt he start with a much more possesion based play at the start of 22/23 and then found out de Gea couldnt hack it, so reverted back for most of the season to a more counter, OGS type of play? This was why he wanted a sweeper keeper. The Glazers gave him one a week before september 23. This was a month after Ten Hag finally got a much needed dedicated 4 star forward.

I wont say ETH has got it all figured out but to claim he isnt flexible when he even fields maguire back these days, isnt fair or correct.

* I also think he overachieved by getting into the CL at all with a squad that needed 'a huge overhaul'' (dixit: rangnick and god knows who else). A United manager must perform at all times but so far he gets the magic word even if theyre scrappy: a win. The coming months will be very telling.

 

[Remember the geese]

Is he, though? Didnt he start with a much more possesion based play at the start of 22/23 and then found out de Gea couldnt hack it, so reverted back for most of the season to a more counter, OGS type of play? This was why he wanted a sweeper keeper. The Glazers gave him one a week before september 23. This was a month after Ten Hag finally got a much needed dedicated 4 star forward.

I wont say ETH has got it all figured out but to claim he isnt flexible when he even fields maguire back these days, isnt fair or correct.

Yeah it's actually more the other way. He's been very compromising and has made many concessions in regards to his tactical vision. Pretty clear that what we are seeing right now is not close to his perceived end goal.

 

[RuudTom83]

Having to play without your entire first choice back 4 should have an affect!

Which it has, plus the spine of the team is make-shift at the back, experimental in the middle and lacks experience at the top.

Just need to ride this period out. Over analysing every match is great for fans but that’s where it should stay.

The manager and players will work it out eventually…hopefully.

 

[FrenchRed]

I like ETH, I like what he seems to stand for, his attitude and interviews. I liked him when he coached in holland and was delighted we got him.

I however see no progress on the pitch. We don’t look like a well drilled team that has a game plan. We don’t look like we’re have any patterns of play, and structure defensively or in attack.

Our recruitment has been shocking.

All in all, I’m sick of this team, totally unenthusiastic about how we play, our results and how we just seem to stumble from issue to issue.

I’m all for ETH having all the time needed, especially having to deal with the ownership circus, but for me time has run out for him to show what he’s trying to implement.

I see no progress.