Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've lost all hope in him, so I really hope he proves me wrong.

But he's had enough to put his imprint on the team and it's just not good enough.

If we somehow suffer heavy defeats vs our rivals like last season, he doesn't have enough credit in the bank to keep his job.
 
I’ve lost all faith in him. I really don’t think he is good enough at this level.
 
Seriously how many good games did we have? League Cup against a reserve Palace team. Everyone is hoping everything will start clicking is unrealistic. Waiting for a beating with City coming. City will probably be 2 goals up before he make changes. Erik will be gone by Christmas, I can't any progress with him and by the time he left, he would leave a mess behind. Ageing Casemiro, Eriksen, Varane and Bruno. No right winger again, expensive players that can't be move. Whoever comes has to clear this mess. Rubbish club with rubbish owners and management.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I've lost all hope in him, so I really hope he proves me wrong.

But he's had enough to put his imprint on the team and it's just not good enough.

If we somehow suffer heavy defeats vs our rivals like last season, he doesn't have enough credit in the bank to keep his job.
Click to expand...
yes, it's those heavy defeats which really started to make me doubt him. I had really wanted to be positive but when I see us getting hammered by our dearest friends it just makes me think 'there's something going seriously wrong in this team'. I think even Championship teams would be able to give a better account of themselves instead of just crumbling totally.

I know there have been exceptional circumstances with injuries and the other issues but losing our spirit or bottling it is totally unacceptable.
 
AndyMUFC said:
Results are improving but the performances aren't sustainable. It's honestly like last year never happened at times.

A lot of the things I admired him for last season have been thrown out of the window. Not dropping the likes of Bruno and Rashford after having the balls to drop Ronaldo, the likes of McTominay and Maguire playing consistently again (they're not good enough long term despite credit for the moments in recent weeks) and constantly picking midfield combinations that can't control a game and having to rectify it every single time by bringing Eriksen on instead of just starting him.
Click to expand...

We have beaten Brentford (extremely fortunately), Sheffield United, and FC Copenhagen. And all of those have been a struggle. ETH is taking us nowhere and he knows it. You can see it. You don't need to just be 'tough'. That's all he ever talks about.. How many times can you tell players that 'we have to win, we have to do it......' This isn't the military. And ETH never admits that he may need to do something different.

There's nothing there with ETH. You can see it. Players no longer take to him. Just waiting for moments of inspiration.
 
Moments F.C, just look at Ole. Relying on moments from players to win games. Ten Hag was hired to play "total football"

look at the Brighton manager or AngBall, the media and fans are purring about it. It's not hard to get players and teams playing like that if you have good coaching over a pre-season.. they are doing it in their 1st season! Spurs didn't have a structure of playing that way before Ang, but the players love him so will buy into his coaching, the players at United probably don't like Ten Hag as he's not warm, approachable or down to earth like Ang, he lies, makes excuses and just seems too robotic and cold with the players and media, specifically not willing to put an "arm around a shoulder" of certain players who need a different approach to the stick approach when you need more carrot with certain players with big egos and big players like a Sancho or Ronaldo.

when you have a charismatic manager like Klopp, Pep or Ang. It really helps. It's part of football now. With social media and the like.

Ten Hag has got lucky the last few games. The results should be much worse. But his luck will run out as Ten Hag has no structure, style of play or patterns to fall back on so the end is nigh for him. Starting against City. It's the long goodbye and all roads lead to his sacking. Sir Jim won't stand for it.

Ten Hags style of play and football was even bad last season, he should have no credit in the bank anymore.

Once top 4 is mathematically impossible to get, the players will turn on him too. At the minute they are doing it for self-pride, not fighting for Ten Hag. Ten Hag has placed his trust in the wrong players, and he will live and die by his sword.

Ten Hag has favourites like Rashford and Bruno who don't match the way he wants to play but Ten Hag has no balls to drop them for players who fit his system because he's too weak and scared like a rabbit in the headlights. But the crocodiles like those 2 will turn on him eventually like they have previous managers, you'll see. Biggest mistake ever by him putting his trust in certain players who have left down previous managers.

Managers like Ang buy players to fit their system like James Madison who is looking like the signing/bargain of the season and United could have brought for £30-£40M. Ten Hag buys Mason Mount (bizarre signing) and Onana (not needed when you have DDG and more important priorities to fix in the team) spunking his whole transfer budget with no plan and not fixing the biggest holes in the team. It's criminal.
 
Last edited:
Very disappointing. We look clueless most of the time and rely on individual brilliance. Not a single sign of being a really good transition team that he was talking about. We play shit and I think he’s responsible for that, whether it’s because of his team selections or tactics
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Very disappointing. We look clueless most of the time and rely on individual brilliance. Not a single sign of being a really good transition team that he was talking about. We play shit and I think he’s responsible for that, whether it’s because of his team selections or tactics
Click to expand...

I think so too. Ten Hag could easily drop Rashford, Bruno etc and install some discipline and cultures within the club that not performing has consequences and let them earn their place back. But he won't. You can see Sanchos point with Ten Hag (even though he went about it the wrong way) having favourites like Antony who he won't ever drop. The other players see that and it doesn't create a good atmosphere if not performing has no consequences.

And don't say "he has nobody to play" he just purchased Mason Mount and could play Garnacho or Pellestri instead of Rashford

Hannibal with his energy etc

Ten Hag has options, he's just too stubborn to change things (because he's too scared and arrogant) and not a good tactician or man-manager. He's sadly not another Pep or Klopp like he was hyped up to be at Ajax.

Ten Hag will be sacked, it's inevitable and I've accepted it and moved on. It's the long goodbye but it will happen and if he had any pride he would leave on his own accord and accept that job is too big for him. Once Top 4 is mathematically impossible the players will turn on Ten Hag for all his mistakes. And he deserves it. He's created the culture of not performing has no consequences and blaming everyone else making excuses for every defeat.. so don't be shocked when the same players do the same thing as Ten Hag by using Ten Hag as their shield.

Sir Jim can't afford not getting into the Top 4. Would you trust Ten Hag with money? I wouldn't.
 
Last edited:
AshTheBash said:
Moments F.C, just look at Ole. Relying on moments from players to win games. Ten Hag was hired to play "total football"

look at the Brighton manager or AngBall, the media and fans are purring about it. It's not hard to get players and teams playing like that if you have good coaching over a pre-season.. they are doing it in their 1st season! Spurs didn't have a structure of playing that way before Ang, but the players love him so will buy into his coaching, the players at United probably don't like Ten Hag as he's not warm, approachable or down to earth like Ang, he lies, makes excuses and just seems too robotic and cold with the players and media, specifically not willing to put an "arm around a shoulder" of certain players who need a different approach to the stick approach when you need more carrot with certain players with big egos and big players like a Sancho or Ronaldo.

when you have a charismatic manager like Klopp, Pep or Ang. It really helps. It's part of football now. With social media and the like.

Ten Hag has got lucky the last few games. The results should be much worse. But his luck will run out as Ten Hag has no structure, style of play or patterns to fall back on so the end is nigh for him. Starting against City. It's the long goodbye and all roads lead to his sacking. Sir Jim won't stand for it.

Ten Hags style of play and football was even bad last season, he should have no credit in the bank anymore.

Once top 4 is mathematically impossible to get, the players will turn on him too. At the minute they are doing it for self-pride, not fighting for Ten Hag. Ten Hag has placed his trust in the wrong players, and he will live and die by his sword.

Ten Hag has favourites like Rashford and Bruno who don't match the way he wants to play but Ten Hag has no balls to drop them for players who fit his system because he's too weak and scared like a rabbit in the headlights. But the crocodiles like those 2 will turn on him eventually like they have previous managers, you'll see. Biggest mistake ever by him putting his trust in certain players who have left down previous managers.

Managers like Ang buy players to fit their system like James Madison who is looking like the signing/bargain of the season and United could have brought for £30-£40M. Ten Hag buys Mason Mount (bizarre signing) and Onana (not needed when you have DDG and more important priorities to fix in the team) spunking his whole transfer budget with no plan and not fixing the biggest holes in the team. It's criminal.
Click to expand...

He plugged holes at Gk, MF and striker, 3 of the biggest areas that needed players. He tried to get rid of Maguire and McT to bring in other players but that didn't happen. Players were needed for those positions, maybe he has signed the wrong ones, only time will tell.

I'm not happy with how the team is playing, but
you can't go on about Ange bringing in players to suit his style and then go on to criticise ETH for getting rid of DDG, a player who just didn't suit it and bringing in Onana who does. Maybe Maddison wasn't a player who he saw as fitting his system, when Bruno is already there.
 
Sarni said:
To be fair even looking at last season now, the whole myth about amazing, impressive season full of improvement was largely based on a relatively short period of 2 months after World Cup has finished and the League Cup win. We were abysmal to start the season, had a couple of good performances before WC and then those two months but were again quite poor with little direction towards the end of season. We had at least 10-12 truly bad performances, if not more.

I don’t think he is a particularly good tactician, he doesn’t manage games very well and his setup prior to the game is often suspect, from day 1 he didn’t strike me as a good man manager either - asking your players to run 14km because they lost a game might work with an U15 team but is likely not going to do much good with a bunch of adults. It’s even more evident this season as the players don’t really seem to be putting in much effort or playing with any clear belief. I know many blame players for that but it’s manager’s job to keep them motivated, which seems to not really exist at present. He also seems absolutely horrible at identifying transfer targets, this doesn’t really have to be part of his job but he’s truly horrendous at that.
Click to expand...
I like him as a person but I can’t argue with any of that. We’ve never played expansive football despite the cash he’s had to spend plus we are awful on the counter too. Which is tactics 101 when you’re not great on the ball.

We’ve always been good at countering in the past regardless and could get a result against anyone. Now we can’t.

We’ve got some pretty good players and everyone says about it’s all different styles from previous managers but he’s got a fair amount now of his style and it’s getting worse.
 
It's obviously at least equal parts the set-up around him, from facilities and recruitment to 'leadership culture' (of aspiration towards excellence, or its opposite). But the flipside of the 'manager is to blame for everything', is this cult of the manager which indefinitely exculpates them from any kind of blame whilst simultaneously asserting that, contrary to much available evidence (A) the playing system will improve and results will turn around or (b) actually the playing style and approach to selection isn't that bad and can see us finish top 4. The fact is, managers under the present set-up are constrained but can still have significant impact on set-up and philosophy (competitivity; players feeling they have to earn an continue to earn places in the team etc) .

Since the League Cup, he's done very little to suggest nous or motivation, adaptability, insight into his own biases in terms of selection or recruitment or into the balance of the midfield in general. Mount was supposed to be--what? A replacement no. 10 who can also drop deeper (compare him then to Maddison)? a number 8 to press and drive with the ball? If the latter, why isn't he being played there consistently? Why didn't we recruit one of the numerous available quick, powerful no.8s more apparently capable of playing in a double pivot and carrying the ball whilst potentially withstanding the energy and general physicality of the PL midfield battle

At the moment there are swathes of fans who would blindly accept 4-0 losses one after another because it's 'backing the manager', and it's 'against short-termism' , with consequence being that any protest has you labelled a heretic or 'idiot' whilst answering critics with this doublethink of (a) the manager is powerless but also (b) we shouldn't think of replacing the manager because it ruins what they're building (with 'what power', then?).
 
I guess if Arne Slot really wants to leave at the end of this season we could consider a swap with Ten Hag. He's not as good or as bald, but he would be an okay replacement...
 
For all the pessimism about our start to the season, our general play, and the prospect of us improving, ETH still has the highest win percentage of any permanent manager of Manchester United ever. By a decent margin as well (roughly four percentage points to SAF and Mourinho). Obviously that's just a stat, there's a ton of context around it, yada, yada, yada. I just think it's kind of interesting. A lot of people want to see him gone, and I'm not saying that it would necessarily be the wrong decision, but if we fired him today, he would leave as the manager with the highest win percentage ever.
 
Mike Smalling said:
For all the pessimism about our start to the season, our general play, and the prospect of us improving, ETH still has the highest win percentage of any permanent manager of Manchester United ever. By a decent margin as well (roughly four percentage points to SAF and Mourinho). Obviously that's just a stat, there's a ton of context around it, yada, yada, yada. I just think it's kind of interesting. A lot of people want to see him gone, and I'm not saying that it would necessarily be the wrong decision, but if we fired him today, he would leave as the manager with the highest win percentage ever.
Click to expand...
Ole and Mourinho had very high win percentages too before a run of absolutely horrific results that lead to their sacking. That looks to be on the horizon for EtH if he doesn't sort this shit out soon.
 
Raw said:
Ole and Mourinho had very high win percentages too before a run of absolutely horrific results that lead to their sacking. That looks to be on the horizon for EtH if he doesn't sort this shit out soon.
Click to expand...

Sure. It just seems like some people treat ETH like he is already well into that kind of run - at least in terms of the rhetoric around sacking him. I do agree it's trending in the wrong direction, but I suppose there is also a small chance of turning it around if ETH finds the midfield solutions, we get a few a players back from injury, Højlund starts scoring a few, etc. Not the most likely scenario, I know, but crazier things have happened.
 
Not sure I've ever seen a more negative forum in my life. It would probably do a lot of you good to have a few days away instead of contributing to this doom spiral.
 
It was particularly poor against Palace at home, no movement anywhere on the pitch, serious lack of intelligence on and off it.

However I remember when we beat Oldham in the cup reply in 1990 to reach Wembley, we were fifth from bottom and the football was a lot worse than it is today: and Fergie had spent a small fortune to build his squad.

Still willing to give Erik the benefit, with a run based on fully fit first eleven. But the quality and style of play needs to be shown sooner rather than later.
 
Other still images from last game.

We might have problems with poor players but also we have very poor tactics & set-up.

 
Waynne said:
Work with what we currently have? That job. Sure there's still some average players but we can't expect a new manager to come in and just clear out the squad. Just like with Ten Hag, its going to take a couple of transfer windows to revamp the team.
Either way I'm sick of the state of this team. No consistency, no pattern of play, lost at sea against poor to average opposition and it's been going on for a while now.
Click to expand...
Revamp to what? Another shit show? Ole came in and got instant results just to feck it up later. We needed a new structure and we still do, however I have no confidence that something will change any sooner. This crap will continue until Glazers leave the club and serious owners take over.
 
Alex99 said:
I don't mean this to pick on you in particular, but I've seen this sentiment shared over and over.

Do you not think the ridiculous injury list we've had has contributed somewhat to a lack of cohesive style?
Click to expand...

He chose to buy Mount and then put him in the first game of the season when we didn't have such a ridiculous injury list, changed our style to have a single defensive midfielder and then two others playing right up top with the strikers.

It's a conscious choice by ETH with or without injuries, it's suicidal and it makes zero sense. I get he wants us to win the ball up high but this is an extremely myopic way of doing it that leaves us so ridiculously exposed.

Whoever told him this was a good idea wants checking into a mental asylum.
 
Keanes Magic Hat said:
Its amazing that we have more points after 9 games then in 7 of the last 10 seasons.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

SeasonPoints after 9 gamesPosition after 9 gamesFinal position
23/24158thTBC
22/23149th3rd
21/22147th6th
20/21167th2nd
19/201014th3rd
18/191410th6th
17/18202nd2nd
16/17147th6th
15/16193rd5th
14/15138th4th
13/14148th7th
 
matherto said:
He chose to buy Mount and then put him in the first game of the season when we didn't have such a ridiculous injury list, changed our style to have a single defensive midfielder and then two others playing right up top with the strikers.

It's a conscious choice by ETH with or without injuries, it's suicidal and it makes zero sense. I get he wants us to win the ball up high but this is an extremely myopic way of doing it that leaves us so ridiculously exposed.

Whoever told him this was a good idea wants checking into a mental asylum.
Click to expand...
I don't think this is the plan, I think this is the whole issue. Trying to get our Cms to understand how they are meant to play. When Mebrij has played/come on we've not really had the issue, the probem is we want to play a DM and two 8's but in reality we play an 8 (who is learning the role) and a 10/SS
 
quadrant said:
Indeed.

SeasonPoints after 9 gamesPosition after 9 gamesFinal position
23/24158thTBC
22/23149th3rd
21/22147th6th
20/21167th2nd
19/201014th3rd
18/191410th6th
17/18202nd2nd
16/17147th6th
15/16193rd5th
14/15138th4th
13/14148th7th
Click to expand...

It's been a really fecking grimm decade.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Why does Newcastle play better football than us? They finished 11th before the Saudis really started spending.
Click to expand...

because they bought better players, had a better foundation and have almost zero pressure/expectation to win every game like United do.. they just lost against an average Dortmund and everyone just shrugs their shoulders
 
big_jeffstar said:
because they bought better players, had a better foundation and have almost zero pressure/expectation to win every game like United do.. they just lost against an average Dortmund and everyone just shrugs their shoulders
Click to expand...
There's massive expectation from the Geordie's, they're a one town football club and a 'big club' apparently. I watched their game last night and they look better coached than any of our lads, they fought more, the ran more, they wanted it more and they had a clear plan. We look absolutely clueless outside of individual moments of brilliance. I wouldn't say that's got anything to do with expectation or pressure, it's the manager setting the team up in a way that they believe they can get something as a unit.
 
matherto said:
He chose to buy Mount and then put him in the first game of the season when we didn't have such a ridiculous injury list, changed our style to have a single defensive midfielder and then two others playing right up top with the strikers.

It's a conscious choice by ETH with or without injuries, it's suicidal and it makes zero sense. I get he wants us to win the ball up high but this is an extremely myopic way of doing it that leaves us so ridiculously exposed.

Whoever told him this was a good idea wants checking into a mental asylum.
Click to expand...

the EPL isn’t a farmers league and theres several teams will just comfortably play round our high press/position.

the injuries narrative is false as well in my opinion as whilst not having your best player in every position on the pitch available isn't ideal, it shouldn't be a catalyst for total collapse and inability to play football or execute any sort of gameplan.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Other still images from last game.

We might have problems with poor players but also we have very poor tactics & set-up.

Click to expand...

A lot of this has been discussed at length, some of it before the season kicked off as even the midfield intent, with out personnel was an obvious disaster waiting to happen that would kill the DM as there is no way to cover all that space; it’s an impossible setup unless everything is flawless, which it has never been close to being.

What concerns me more than anything else of the burgeoning issues is ten Hag looking like he doesn’t know how to setup up a functioning midfield that can control games. I would like to think FDJ wasn’t some outlier that created a perfect storm and that he can actually recreate something similar without him. The isolation issue is a serious one, and it’s coming about because our midfielders don’t move or look to create easy inlets for triangulation or even simple 1-2’s. Nobody knows what they’re doing, and if there is a brief of what they should be doing, they’re not doing it. Doing. Not been done.

I never had these doubts about the manager even last season where we were regressing, but the transfer window, into preseason and everything after has been one misstep after another. This is the time when he has to show he has the nous to change course and take a different approach.
 
quadrant said:
Indeed.

SeasonPoints after 9 gamesPosition after 9 gamesFinal position
23/24158thTBC
22/23149th3rd
21/22147th6th
20/21167th2nd
19/201014th3rd
18/191410th6th
17/18202nd2nd
16/17147th6th
15/16193rd5th
14/15138th4th
13/14148th7th
Click to expand...


Disaster the club's finished half as many times in the top four as without in the last decade.
 
Keanes Magic Hat said:
Its amazing that we have more points after 9 games then in 7 of the last 10 seasons.
Click to expand...

I have no doubts that we'll turn it around at some point. We're underperforming and we're definitely not a bottom half team which is where the stats put us.

I also think 4th will be a challenge and our actual level is somewhere between 4-6th.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.