At no stage did we 'outclass' Spurs on that day. We competed well, and were well in the game for a bit, but then what happened? This isn't 30 minute football.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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At no stage did we 'outclass' Spurs on that day. We competed well, and were well in the game for a bit, but then what happened? This isn't 30 minute football.
If we win our next 2 games and Galatasaray lose in Munich we are through
It's like that mythical 45 minutes rangnick had against crystal palace
There are lots of scenarios how United get through. There are some more scenarios how Galatasaray get through. I really don't know why stating this fact needs so much discussion here?
Galatasaray had the more difficult first half of the group stage than United had (looking at home/away matches) and are a point in front. That's better, that's a simple fact, isn't it? Third in the table is worse than second?
Again United's situation isn't hopeless. But the loss at home against Istanbul was a terrible result and shouldn't have happened (a loss away against Bayern in this group is fine and shouldn't be reason for concern). As you said United can turn it around by simply winning the next two games and it's likely that would be enough, but it is also entirely possible that United needs a win against Bayern on the last day and still depend on Galatasaray losing to go through. Or even be out before that.
The injury situation that many use as a reason for our poor form is a bit of a cop out. We've missed Varane and Martinez, ETH knows Varane misses a lot of games, he can't be surprised by this. Martinez missed games in Holland each season, again no surprise there. Casemiro was out last night, between loss of form last season and games missed via suspension/injury, again no shock there. If our season is falling apart because we've lost AWB and Shaw than we've much bigger issues than we thought. The problem is, the spine of our team has players who miss games and ETH did nothing in the off season to address that. He waited until the last day to bring in Amrabat on loan. We've a makeshift backline that the keeper is either ignoring or being told to launch it long, that kind of defeats the purpose of bringing in a keeper whose main strength is with the ball at his feet. Bad planning all around.
Is it a slight advantage when they have to go to Bayern away and United have to go to Turkey where they haven’t won a game yet? United have played their hardest game, Galatasaray haven’t.
The timing of the fixtures is shit luck for them as well. They get the immediate turnaround against Bayern while United get them when they’re already qualified and the last game of the group.
I’d back United to go though from here but it’s not by much. Their high line is ridiculous so every game is this high scoring encounter. If they tightened up I’d make them favourites
Yes of course United can still qualify. Despite the moans, we do have the players capable of doing that. But we are a very long way off from playing like a team, instead of just as a rabble with no distinct pattern of play.
Ten Hag has had plenty long enough to have got the squad performing to even just to an acceptable level.
We all knew goalscoring was going to be a problem. Hopefully he is getting the defence sorted. But to win you have to score and he is way off from getting that sorted.
It will definitely be interesting how this unfolds. What I expect is that Bayern will win the next match as well which gives United the opportunity to pass Gala (a draw in Kopenhagen would be enough to be on par on points). A win should be possible, but I don't trust United to actually do this, so I think it will be pretty even after four matches. Bayern - Kopenhagen won't matter much presumably (except Kopenhagen win against United, then they really would smell blood I guess). Gala - United is a match where I expect on current form a Gala win. I don't think that United can weather the storm like Bayern did yesterday just by luck. And that would result in United having a must win against Bayern while Gala would just need a point against Kopenhagen. And even if United win against Kopenhagen before that, we would have a situation where United must win against an already qualified Bayern and Gala must win against an already definitely dropped out Kopenhagen, so I don't see much difference in these final matches.
I do agree that the timing of the Bayern match is better for United than for Gala, I am just not that sure that it will really matter on matchday six as Gala made up for that by winning in Manchester in my eyes.
And the high line point is also an interesting question... will United be able to capitalize on that in Istanbul? Currently United simply doesn't score enough and that makes me doubt it. They might nick a goal or two, but I don't trust United's defense to make that enough, I think Gala can score more than United. But I definitely agree on that being another match were we see multiple goals on both sides.
Martinez passing through the lines is very badly missed and Shaw drive with the ball is also missed.
We have to go long becuase our defence can't pass and slow our passing down, that one of the reasons Scott McTominay was playing he is a big lad.
Personally I think EtH is playing the long game here. He is managing this team and the injuries very well, Reguilón was not fit but took him off and gave him game time, same with Varane full 90.
Eriksen sadly is the best passer of the ball in our team right now and the only quality midfielder in the team. People will say Bruno is the best, just watch the Sheffield game again it was very poor.
Also, why is the club's transfer problems EtH problem? Do you not think he wanted Kane or Rice? Of course he wants these players.
We were one pen away from being very close of getting out, and he's getting saved by the fans here deemed not good enough for the side.
This group is shit. We should have never been in this place to start with. Watch Tan Hag fans turn getting through this group as a huge achievement.
I would call our injury situation more of an excuse than anything else.
Varane was never reliable since he came here, 2 games in 2 games out, that's the norm with him. Martinez and Shaw are missed surely, but they are not the reason we can't attack, can't defend, we look all over the place and we don't have any gameplan.
The fact that Rashford, Bruno and Casemiro are out of form and ETH's lack of capacity to create a cohesive line-up is hurting us more than 2-3 absentees.
We definitely did, but did not score and lost focus in the second half.
I hear you, but as I have stated, I don't think we can expect too much from the return of Luke Shaw and Martinez. That's unfair on them, and it doesn't address our wider issues. Our play will improve, for sure when they return, but if ETH is thinking this will address his issues, he's deluding himself.
Ole was capable of that though. What we expected from ETH was a change to a more structured system and a defined style of play. We haven't gotten it.
Yes we did, we could have easily scored several goals in first half, let's not rewrite history to fit our agendas.
Unfortunately for us, the game consists of two halves and not just one. Maybe next time try to play well for a full 90 minutes if we want to win shit.
Who said it’s a huge achievement?
Maybe you’ll get lucky and we lose away next time round. Cheer you right up
Don't you dare question the highlights of our season, a good half in a game we lost and a convincing win against Palace B team.
You'll once we go through it.
How the hell is it unfair on professional footballers to expect them to play their normal game?
Is Shaw the best left back at the club and is Martinez the best Cb at the club?
You state issues, but not put what they are.
Here, let me tell you how I see it.
Last night: played long balls from the keeper to a CF and ScottT who was pushed forward, when the oppositions dropped deep our CB move the ball around unable to open them. We had width from the LW and RW both moving narrow with over lap. Brunos best invisible man impression was 10/10
Second half Ericsson allowed us to move the ball forward and when we scored, the opponents pushed forward allowing us to counter.
1) Too arrogant to keep ragnick on.
2) only sign from his pool of ex players.
3) Seemly can't drop anthony
4) can't drop bruno
5) can't drop rashford
6) terrible man management
7) I dont think you can see his vision on the pitch after nearly 2 years.
Why are we even discussing this. The man is dutch moyes without personality.
2) only sign from his pool of ex players.
3) Seemly can't drop anthony
4) can't drop bruno
5) can't drop rashford
6) terrible man management
7) I dont think you can see his vision on the pitch after nearly 2 years.
Why are we even discussing this. The man is dutch moyes without personality.
Relax ok... I actually stated that the return of Shaw and Martinez will improve us, but it will not sort the wider issues we face. No way. And I do think it will be extremely unfair to expect two defenders, who have had long-term injuries, to come back and be expected to improve, exponentially, improve our current playing style. I can't see that happening. We can agree to disagree on that.
And if we fire him today and we get through the group post that, you will celebrate it as if removing Ten Hag was the reason we got through the group.
So what's your point? Should we not qualify through the group because posters on this forum will celebrate it?
When he was hired and during the most of first season i had a feeling that he has clear plan what do to about style and players.
Now i see a man who ditched all his plans and just trying to salvage a win.
We don't play possession football, we don't play transition football and we don't play quick football. We try to kill a game (literally) and waiting for some lucky play or shot. He said two times in a row now how Eriksen was subbed in to bring "football". Wtf was that? Shouldn't that be plan A? To play football?
Also, we don't have clear selection hierachy. Players change in lineup depending on how they did last game.
Never a good sign when manager ditch his plans and start playing just to survive. And this early in season.
Now i see a man who ditched all his plans and just trying to salvage a win.
We don't play possession football, we don't play transition football and we don't play quick football. We try to kill a game (literally) and waiting for some lucky play or shot. He said two times in a row now how Eriksen was subbed in to bring "football". Wtf was that? Shouldn't that be plan A? To play football?
Also, we don't have clear selection hierachy. Players change in lineup depending on how they did last game.
Never a good sign when manager ditch his plans and start playing just to survive. And this early in season.
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Don't disagree. But if he has signed players with the intention of playing a particular style of football, stick with it and play them. We are not talking cheap players here - Mount a 60mil and 250k a week. You can't bin him off after only a few games.
Instead, he has reverted back to starting McTominay just because he popped up with a couple of goals v Brentford.
Agree. Whatever plans he had, they have been thrown out of the window real quick. Same thing happened last year after the losses to Brighton and Brentford.
The injuries at the back have hurt, but that is no reason to shuffle the midfield every game.
It is concerning that in his 2nd year he has again had to resort to short-termism trying to win game-to-game (fortuitously to some extent in each of the last 3 games) rather than imposing a coherent vision onto this team and even the initial vision this season with a high energy, pressing midfield with Bruno and Mount ahead of Casemiro already seems unlikely to work.
Agree. What worries me, is what is next? Are we going to struggle though this season, then spend more money on buying players to fit a Ten Hag system that he has shown for two years that he can't implement, despite spending 400+ mil.
I'd imagine this is the most likely.
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What I wrote is our many problem.. Big gaps between defense and other players.
The solution is easy... Compress the space between defenders and strikers.
There is no other way. Everything else will fail.
He looks out of answers.
While we are in possession, it’s basically Maguire to Varane, back to Maguire, to Regulon, back to Maguire, then to Amrabaat, then to Varane, over to Dalot, back to Varane, then to Onana…. feck me, it’s abysmal. No overloads, no movement, very little forward passing or progressive carries. We are now almost 18 months in with ETH and the lack of progress is worrisome.
If we looked at the objectives of ETH when he arrived, it would be:
1. Improve goal production
2. Establish patterns of play
3. Control the game through possession
4. Establish a high press
5. Organize defending
6. Reduce transition goals
7. Utilize transfers to purchase players that can execute, improve ability to achieve above objectives.
8. Develop youth.
How much of this has he done?
While we are in possession, it’s basically Maguire to Varane, back to Maguire, to Regulon, back to Maguire, then to Amrabaat, then to Varane, over to Dalot, back to Varane, then to Onana…. feck me, it’s abysmal. No overloads, no movement, very little forward passing or progressive carries. We are now almost 18 months in with ETH and the lack of progress is worrisome.
If we looked at the objectives of ETH when he arrived, it would be:
1. Improve goal production
2. Establish patterns of play
3. Control the game through possession
4. Establish a high press
5. Organize defending
6. Reduce transition goals
7. Utilize transfers to purchase players that can execute, improve ability to achieve above objectives.
8. Develop youth.
How much of this has he done?
Absolute shambles. This has been a problem going back to Mourinho and Ole. I thought EtH was going to be the progressive, ball-playing manager that would change this, but we still look so inept at build-up compared to even Villa and Spurs whose managers have been there for less time.
The only thing that could make sense here is a switch to the left, and we would have them overloaded on that side because no red shirt has has come to the ball, but we are so damn slow at switching the play that it doesn't work anyway.
1 and 1/4 season with Erik as our manager and I am beginning to lose faith. The system is not working and he continues every game. He makes changes at half time when he see the team struggling to break down opponents. Players like Rashford and Bruno keeps firing blank and he hopes that they will eventually get out of their rough patch. Using the same line-up and tactics over and over again. Is this bald headed guy trying to get sack and go back to Ajax? Doesn't he has any idea to make this team a cohesive team? Emery comes in the Aston Villa is playing well. Maybe he is the wrong hire, we should probably go with Poch or Emery. Both are very experienced manager who knows the English game.
Just seeing how deep Maguire and Varane are in possession is alarming. Amrabaat, who many here hailed as our savior, really isn’t the passing genius nor defensive genius we needed. Our best lineup is still a 4-2-3-1 with Eriksen and Casemiro. Only Eriksen moves the ball quickly enough to bother the opposition. Everyone else is way too slow. Garnacho aside, our wingers don’t move enough to create space.
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Agree. He would need another 1 billion pound to address those issues. If it takes money to resolve all of the issues then sadly, Erik is the wrong guy.
But he can stick to his principles (style/system/formation/etc.) without making the same 2 predictable subs that have minimal impact virtually every game.
It would've been an easy last 20min, it wouldn't have changed the first half of this must win game where the team spent most of it being booed by the crowd. And people aren't frustrated with the manager because we missed a few chances on the counter which meant we only won by 1 goal, we're frustrated because right now there are no signs of this team showing any kind sort of progress or that we're on the right path to becoming successful again. If anything we'v gone backwards compared to last season.
I dont think we have had a single really good performance so far this season yet and Erik's refusal to accept this is partly his fault and change his ways is what will ultimately get him sacked.
This looks like us during Moyes era. Terrible.
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