Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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FrankWhite said:
Listening to his post match interview with TNT was interesting. Scholes questioned him about struggling to find the balance in midfield, basically what everyone on here had been saying. ETH dismissed the question and blamed the struggles for game control on the defence. Apparently the routines at the back hasn't been there due to injuries and that's why we've struggled in the middle of the park.

Pretty sure the choice defenders played in the first game of the season against Wolves, where we were cut through time and again. However, I do think there's something to his claim. Martinez and Shaw are our two best ball-playing defenders and I think missing both makes a difference. I also think it is why he's not playing Mount.

All that said, I'm still very disappointed in his failure to adapt the team to deal with the above mentioned issues. We should be able to pick eleven players and dominant some of the teams we've struggled against.
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Complete nonsense. Every team has injuries. Arsenal bought a defender (Jurrien Timber) who's now out with an ACL. I don't see such a massive impact on how they play. Liverpool Konate, Gomez, Matip, Simikaz.. all play at various times, their form is up and down, but Liverpool still manage to retain their way, very clear way, of playing, and they have basically changed six, seven players over the last year since ETH has arrived. Man City have got rid of some of their defenders, Stones recently returned from injury, they have new defenders, young players from their academy playing at the back, and again, they seem to manage without having any effect on how they play. If I asked you to name Villa's, or Spurs back line, you may struggle... but again, they seem to have manager's who can organise their players and play a clear system.

But ETH can't.

I'm fed up with this manager. Had enough of him. He never takes responsibility for the dross that's served up.
 
Kaos said:
Feel like he'd be a dead man walking if Sunday turns into another pasting. Feels all too familiar this, its like we're cursed to be stuck in our own managerial boom-bust cycles, and we're now nearing the latter end of this one.

The unfortunate thing is I can't think of a manager I'd be excited about getting in to replace him. Frankly I don't think it matters with the Glazers still lingering around like a bad smell, and I have no faith in Ratcliffe either with his 25% footballing focus.
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Would you feel differently IF Mitchell or someone else of that ilk was picking our next manager.
 
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If he doesn’t change the game plan he’s gone soon as sitting in the bottom third of the table mid season will get him sacked - and we will be playing like this and with the fixtures we have coming up. I don’t see many points coming.
That starting 11 last night is as good as we will get for a few months given Martinez and Shaw are long term out. Casemiro coming back this weekend is the only change maybe. Set up and shape will remain the same and Onana will continue to just launch the ball (as instructed, clearly) and we can’t control a game.
The most fortunate cup run ever is giving him time. Since that cup win, we’ve done nothing to suggest he is a top class manager.
 
I think back to the times when I wanted Ole out. Dire football, same old stale team selection, no accountability as underperforming players continue to start games.

That's ETH today. Not saying I want him out, because I'd wait till we get our injured players back, but it's looking increasingly like he has some serious flaws as a manager. A few injuries shouldn't be affecting the style of football to the point where you look as clueless as us.

We started the season with Mount and Bruno being advanced 8/10 hybrids and leaving Casemiro to do the midfield work by himself. We're now playing with McTominay and Bruno in hybrid 8/10 roles while asking Amrabat to do the midfield work himself.

There is something seriously wrong with this tactic he's come up with for this season.
 
Borys said:
If players in both teams finished their chances then judging by xG we would have been lucky to get away with a draw, let alone a win.
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That’s because we don’t feck up the chances but the easy pass / set up for a supposed certain goal. That doesn’t show up on XG.

That Regulion fecked up though ball to put Marcus away was criminal but that won’t register in any stat bar misplaced pass
 
Leftback99 said:
The results in the run of fixtures up to Christmas are going to be brutal the way we're playing.
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Yeah we have in the lead up to xmas Newcastle (a) Bayern (h) and scousers (a) which looks intimidating to say the least. We desperately need Shaw & AWB back for these games,highly unlikely we will see Licha available for any of them unfortunately. Having said that even when we had the defence last season it fell off after winning League Cup Final. So actually he hasn't got that excuse to fall back on
 
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My problem with Ten Hag is that he’s not a manager who can see what he’s doing isn’t working and needs to be radically changed. Game after game it’s just the same tired old formation with the same tired old players.

Sancho’s accusation of favouritism appears to be true, that can be the only reason Antony is an automatic starter because it’s not justified by output in the attacking third. He was poor for the whole of last season and there’s been no improvement this season. Rashford is in a slightly different position, although his output in the final third is no better than Antony’s. He’s shown in the past that he can score goals so perhaps deserves time - but how much time?

I have no faith that Ten Hag can turn this abysmal situation round. He’s just too inflexible. He’s sure his way is right and the fact that it’s not working is everyone/anyone else’s fault.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
Yeah I'm losing hope for him the more we go on. Even when we get results the patterns of play aren't remotely there. This whole coaching staff looks inept when you compare with other coaches who can come in and get their team playing how they want regardless of who is out there. Yeah the quality might drop but you still see how they want to play. We look like strangers out there
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Yeah no patterns of play meaning we are failing to control games is a huge concern,also has to be ruthless with Bruno & Rashford soon or he will fall on his sword sooner or later.
 
I don’t want him gone yet, but the football is so poor, he’s in trouble. It’s going to take something special for him to stick around long term. All the negatives Ajax fans warned about have come to fruition really.

Im exhausted from this whole situation.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah no patterns of play meaning we are failing to control games is a huge concern,also has to be ruthless with Bruno & Rashford soon or he will fall on his sword sooner or later.
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He’s not falling on his sword, we’ve won 5 out of the last 7 for feck sake
 
I expect ETH to get the sack by turn of the year based on how dire the football is and showing no signs of improving. Would I agree when the decision comes? No. Is it because I’m some deluded ETH supporter? I would say no but I find it hard to even believe myself given how bad we are right now. But this sequence has played out over and over with every bloody manager post-SAF. While none of those managers has pulled up any trees since leaving the United job, they all (OGS aside) have still done half decent since. And now we have ETH, one of the rising stars in the managerial world pre-United now being considered as out of his depth, having no idea how to coach a team. This repetition is getting old.
 
croadyman said:
Want to see better performances,doesn't matter we have won 5 of the last 7 games
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Yes it does. We played well v Spurs / Arsenal and Bayern yet lost all 3. I can’t remember posters coming in here saying aw well, at least we saw attacking football. The losses became the story.
No manager is getting sacked for winning 5 games out of 7.
I know fans want to shit on the team with their we will finish behind Villa nonsense or pretending a win last night doesn’t really matter because we won’t beat Copenhagen away from home bullshit bit the fact is we are winning our fair share of games this season. Fact is, bar Palace and that freak game v Galatasaray we have won every game that we should have won this season.
No manager is getting sacked on the back of that.
There are so many posters on here who will have their heads fried If United get the win versus an underperforming City this weekend. The season won’t make sense to you.
I don’t think we’re playing well at all and I’m not sticking up for how we’re playing at the minute but it’s far from being a sackable offence
 
I honestly think we'll look back on him as the most damaging manager we've ever had - which is some competition. The state of the squad is just shocking and he's basically the cleaned the coffers. There's nothing left - even if we get a sugar daddy, the FFP position just leaves feck all room.
 
First half was dreadful but credit where credits due ETH tweaked it probably gave them a rocket and the second half was much better should of been out of sight by the time that pen gets given which was a truly diabolical decision.

There is definetley though a crisis of confidence in the forward positions, we desperately need someone from the front 4 to find there shooting boots and start putting chances away.

Will one or two of forwards find there form in time to save ETH or not is the question now.
 
I envy people who maintain it was a good performance and we should have been 3-0/4-0 up by middle of second half as if that’s a true belief they hold, I am sure with that level of optimism they can convince themselves of everything and life must be very easy.
 
Im rooting for him, but i feel like his stubbornness is gonna cost him. Players need to be dropped, yet he keeps playing them.

I want to see more of Hannibal, Garnacho, Mount and less of Rashford, Bruno, McT.

Our wins are all scrapes and our losses are abysmal. Already gave up on the derby. Something needs to change.
 
We wasted plenty of chances last night, which is new, we usually don’t create very much. But even with that, it was shite. We make every match such hard work, it’s exhausting.
 
He's deluded if he thinks that only because of missing defenders we don't have control in midfield.

I've lost my faith in him- all that talk about him being ruthless with decision making are just plain talk- him overplaying his favorite players (Bruno, Rashford, Antony) sends message to others that there's point of bothering in training when they still won't play. Sancho is unprofessional basket case, but seeing Antony starting week in week gives him some benefit of the doubt why he's like that.

Only way out of this mess is him changing his approach to team selection and tactics, since he won't do that there's only one way this is going to end and it's him getting sacked. Shame about that because I've had really high hopes when he first arrived.
 
Skills said:
I honestly think we'll look back on him as the most damaging manager we've ever had - which is some competition. The state of the squad is just shocking and he's basically the cleaned the coffers. There's nothing left - even if we get a sugar daddy, the FFP position just leaves feck all room.
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Yeah the squad is so bad for the amount spent. It's not like he's picking a team far off our best (bar a couple of exceptions). This is what he's assembled and we still need upgrades in nearly every position with no money left. Teams like Villa have caught us up with their recruitment.
 
Skills said:
I honestly think we'll look back on him as the most damaging manager we've ever had - which is some competition. The state of the squad is just shocking and he's basically the cleaned the coffers. There's nothing left - even if we get a sugar daddy, the FFP position just leaves feck all room.
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And the new deadwood will be impossible to move, Antony, mount, Casemiro, thank feck we didn’t buy aramabat, he’s looked like he doesn’t belong at this level. Then again with a tactically good coach these players might be decent.
 
He's becoming very predictable he makes the same moves most games. Garnacho on for Antony, Rashford right (who unsurprisingly offers little there), then 5-10 minutes later Martial on for Rashford (last night he changed his mind at the last minute).

Should just try start Garnacho on the right from the start and have nim and Rashford swap during the game. Keep Antony on the bench as an impact sub.
 
cyberman said:
That’s because we don’t feck up the chances but the easy pass / set up for a supposed certain goal. That doesn’t show up on XG.

That Regulion fecked up though ball to put Marcus away was criminal but that won’t register in any stat bar misplaced pass
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I get what you mean, but those fecked up passes don't show up on opposition team either. You have to play this game both ways.

We've created enough chances to win yesterday, don't think that was a very big issue. It was OK game, if you don't count in the level of opposition we played and the fact we should be blowing them out of the water.

The performance, especially in the first half, was atrocious though.
 
stevoc said:
He's becoming very predictable he makes the same moves most games. Garnacho on for Antony, Rashford right (who unsurprisingly offers little there), then 5-10 minutes later Martial on for Rashford (last night he changed his mind at the last minute).

Should just try start Garnacho on the right from the start and have nim and Rashford swap during the game. Keep Antony on the bench as an impact sub.
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He's got a blueprint he sticks to. Single pivot, 4231, similar types of players in similar positions. We just don't have the players. Amrabat is decent but he can't hold a midfield on his own. Rashford is shocking. Bruno lacks discipline. And so on.

Do we want him to adapt or stick to his principles? To be fair Guardiola only ever plays one way. It didn't work at City until they went out and bought him a whole new team, and Klopp had to wait about 4 years until he had the players to fit his system.
 
What I really want to know is this?

Why is everything so fecking slow? When the intensity was upped Copenhagen struggled to cope but then it goes back to walking pace.

Why fo Rashford and Antony stay pinned out wide to the line? They offer nothing out there like that with no support.

What's the point in the fullbacks not getting forward or moving into the half space inside when the wingers just turn back and play the centre back?

There's something wrong with this setup.
 
Oranges038 said:
What I really want to know is this?

Why is everything so fecking slow? When the intensity was upped Copenhagen struggled to cope but then it goes back to walking pace.

Why fo Rashford and Antony stay pinned out wide to the line? They offer nothing out there like that with no support.

What's the point in the fullbacks not getting forward or moving into the half space inside when the wingers just turn back and play the centre back?

There's something wrong with this setup.
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There definitely is... If your fullbacks stay back/inside it makes sense to keep your wingers out wide to provide width. It doesn't make sense to play Rashford on the left and Antony on the right to do this job. You need wingers who are good at crossing and/or cutback passes for this kind of setup.
 
stefan92 said:
There definitely is... If your fullbacks stay back/inside it makes sense to keep your wingers out wide to provide width. It doesn't make sense to play Rashford on the left and Antony on the right to do this job. You need wingers who are good at crossing and/or cutback passes for this kind of setup.
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But those wingers need to make the runs to get the ball to make cut backs.

Rashford made 1 run which was picked out and played 1 cut back last night, which I think led to the Eriksen shot that was saved.

The whole setup looks so rigid and inflexible.
 
Borys said:
I get what you mean, but those fecked up passes don't show up on opposition team either. You have to play this game both ways.

We've created enough chances to win yesterday, don't think that was a very big issue. It was OK game, if you don't count in the level of opposition we played and the fact we should be blowing them out of the water.

The performance, especially in the first half, was atrocious though.
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Why does everyone think Kobenhavn are crap? Bayern struggled with them, and they would have deservedly beaten Galatasaray away, if not for the late red card at 2 nil up. They're not as bad as people think.

I think we would have won far more comfortably if we had a left footed centre back that could switch play to the right and right footer that could switch play to the left. This was one of the big issues in the first half. ETH went more risky in the second half and could have easily lost us the game. Especially when our forwards are misfiring.
 
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One could argue that defense is the only part of our team that’s playing decently, they even pop up with goals at the other end.

So blaming these defenders for our dogshit midfield and attack performances is just asking for trouble.

If they decide to down tools, who is he going to rely on? Bruno, rashford?
 
11101 said:
He's got a blueprint he sticks to. Single pivot, 4231, similar types of players in similar positions. We just don't have the players. Amrabat is decent but he can't hold a midfield on his own. Rashford is shocking. Bruno lacks discipline. And so on.

Do we want him to adapt or stick to his principles? To be fair Guardiola only ever plays one way. It didn't work at City until they went out and bought him a whole new team, and Klopp had to wait about 4 years until he had the players to fit his system.
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Klopp had Liverpool playing brilliant football a lot sooner than 4 years. City's style was immediately clear too. In both cases it was obvious that they'd be highly successful.

In our case it's obvious we won't be successful. The football served up is consistently dreadful. We don't play like a team, let alone a well drilled team.
 
Skills said:
I honestly think we'll look back on him as the most damaging manager we've ever had - which is some competition. The state of the squad is just shocking and he's basically the cleaned the coffers. There's nothing left - even if we get a sugar daddy, the FFP position just leaves feck all room.
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That's where you need a competent DoF, a manager with a plan & a good style of play and a lot of patience.

The new Dof's mandate should be to clear the squad without worrying about the results or league position for a season or two. Forget chasing top 4 to keep the Adidas money or worry about the prestige that comes from Champions league football. Clean house first.

The first step would be get rid of - Maguire, Lindelof, Malacia, Wan-Bissaka, McTominay, Amrabat, Martial, Malacia, Pellestri Antony & Sancho.

Hopefully, the Saudi gravy train is still running the next couple of windows and we can on board Bruno, Casemiro and Varane on it.

That should be able to generate enough to get some well scouted young and hungry players who can form the basis of squad for years to come. The short-term has been signings for stupid transfer fees and huge wages need to stop.

With a bit of luck a couple from Mainoo, Mejbri, Amad, Garnacho, Forson can become important players for us.

The only thing is we should be ready to go through the pain of no European football and a couple of years of very mediocre league finishes while things fall into place. In a way, we should follow the Arsenal blue-print under Edu and Arteta or Liverpool's when Klopp first came in.
 
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AndySmith1990 said:
Klopp had Liverpool playing brilliant football a lot sooner than 4 years. City's style was immediately clear too. In both cases it was obvious that they'd be highly successful.

In our case it's obvious we won't be successful. The football served up is consistently dreadful. We don't play like a team, let alone a well drilled team.
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I disagree. The blueprint he is using is a good one, the question is whether we will get the right players in the right positions.
 
Oranges038 said:
But those wingers need to make the runs to get the ball to make cut backs.

Rashford made 1 run which was picked out and played 1 cut back last night, which I think led to the Eriksen shot that was saved.

The whole setup looks so rigid and inflexible.
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Yes and I think this kind of runs doesn't come natural to Rashford and Antony, both would like to go towards the goal rather than play a pass in front of the goal. And I am not sure they will really pick this up and do it more in the future, but they should.
 
Think he is a dead man walking tbh. Last night reminded me of the late winners we got in the dying days of Moyes, Jose and Ole where it is just slightly delaying the inevitable.

Gutted it’s gone this way, as I was buzzing when we got him in.
 
Insanity said:
That's where you need a competent DoF, a manager with a plan & a good style of play and a lot of patience.

The new Dof's mandate should be to clear the squad without worrying about the results or league position for a season or two. Forget chasing top 4 to keep the Adidas money or worry about the prestige that comes from Champions league football. Clean house first.

The first step would be get rid of - Maguire, Lindelof, Malacia, Wan-Bissaka, McTominay, Amrabat, Martial, Malacia, Pellestri Antony & Sancho.

Hopefully, the Saudi gravy train is still running the next couple of windows and we can on board Bruno, Casemiro and Varane on it.

That should be able to generate enough to get some well scouted young and hungry players who can form the basis of squad for years to come. The short-term has been signings for stupid transfer fees and huge wages need to stop.

With a bit of luck a couple from Mainoo, Mejbri, Amad, Garnacho, Forson can become important players for us.

The only thing is we should be ready to go through the pain of no European football and a couple of years of very mediocre league finishes while things fall into place. In a way, we should follow the Arsenal blue-print under Edu and Arteta or Liverpool's when Klopp first came in.
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Malacia so bad you need to flush him twice :lol:
 
Waynne said:
Was a serious question. Many here want Ten Hag gone and based on how poor we are its undestandable so who can come in and do a job with this team?
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Do what job? This team eth put together is absolutely dreadful. And that is thanks to his transfer targets. We need a new guy with better plan, and hopefully better transfer game, ETH ruined his time here with his player acquisitions.
 
I’m beginning to lose a bit of faith.
Must win game in the CL, supercharged atmosphere and we sleepwalk through the first half, lucky to not be behind.
Something is badly wrong with our play, so predictable and slow. My view is that we need two new CMs to start getting control of games but we cannot continue in this vein, the wheels will come off at some point.
 
stefan92 said:
Yes and I think this kind of runs doesn't come natural to Rashford and Antony, both would like to go towards the goal rather than play a pass in front of the goal. And I am not sure they will really pick this up and do it more in the future, but they should.
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To me, it's just a simple diagonal run in behind the full back, the ball gets played into the space between the fullback and centre back for you to run on to. Which is what happened with that 1 chance.

Now, obviously you need to play the ball around to drag and stretch the defenders to create that space. But the passing and movement is so slow, by the time the ball gets to a position to play that pass, the defence has moved across and narrowed the gaps.

But if you're also pinning yourself to the line 40 yards out and the ball is being moved so slowly across the pitch, you're never in a position to make that run.

It's all looking like LVG's paint by numbers football.
 
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