Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Rossa]

Watching United is beyond terrible. It's slow, technique is sloppy, nobody that gets you off your seat, no quality in passing or movement.

I dislike watching City because their football is robotic, but there is no denying the quality. Their passing is swift and crisp. Movements everywhere, and they retain possession so well. Liverpool are brilliant at transitioning from defense to wingers and thus creating space to run into.

Our passing is sloppy from the back. Maguire had a good game, but his passing is so slow that it ruins any kind of build-up, no matter how precise it may be. Varane isn't that much better. Our midfield is arguably just as bad, but the biggest concern with them is the complete lack of movement. On the wings, Rashford basically stands still waiting for the ball to come to him. Antony is slightly better, but then he turns back when he receives the ball, so the slow re-cycling continues.

Onana's distribution is no better at this stage than DDG's. Long balls from the back to alleviate pressure for five seconds, then at it again.

I mean, we have no redeeming quality, have we? We barely manage to win at home against Copenhagen. It's a disgrace. We are slow, we are predictable, and we lack any kind of movement.

What is ETH's plan?

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

ETH is being very very fortunate imo.

He is just not addressing any of the issues we are having this season and is being bailed out by very very narrow wins under fortunate circumstances.

If you ignore the EFL Cup win against the Palace reserves then we have won the following by ONE GOAL.

Wolves
Forest
Burnley
Brentford
Sheff Utd
Copenhagen

We have lost every other game this season.

Could easily have lost against Brentford and drew vrs Sheff Utd and Copenhagen.

Imagine if that would have happened ?

 

[RedUnited86]

He's on thin ice.

You can't be going life and death with Copenhagen at home, and outclassed by every opposition manager you've come up against this season, and be the right man for United long term. I don't know whether he's let standards slip or he's come away from his principles (this transition shite) but whatever it is, he needs to get to grips with it pronto.

 

[stefan92]

To me, it's just a simple diagonal run in behind the full back, the ball gets played into the space between the fullback and centre back for you to run on to. Which is what happened with that 1 chance.

Now, obviously you need to play the ball around to drag and stretch the defenders to create that space. But the passing and movement is so slow, by the time the ball gets to a position to play that pass, the defence has moved across and narrowed the gaps.

But if you're also pinning yourself to the line 40 yards out and the ball is being moved so slowly across the pitch, you're never in a position to make that run.

It's all looking like LVG's paint by numbers football.

I fully agree. It's just that I think the currently used wingers lack the understanding and/or instinct to know when they should start moving to do this. And that's what leads to the static play we see.

 

[Sarni]

That worst team was going head to head with Bayern who also barely beat them by one goal. People need to stop pretending like we should have beat them 5:0 or something (even though we had chances to beat them 3, 4:0), they are not that bad.

They are a really average side that any top team would dispose of easily at home.

Away is another thing altogether in Europe but I expect Bayern to beat them by 3-4 goals at home quite comfortably.

I watched them against Rakow in playoffs before they got to group stage and I must say Rakow looked miles better than us despite narrowly losing that tie. And Rakow don't even have a stadium.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

Good for Onana and especially Maguire.

I still think Man United is woefully understaffed and ETH gets to blamed for what is a very mixed and mismatched bag of players.

Like the other post stated: the last 8 or 9 games saw 3 goals and 2 assist from the front players. Martial, Rashford, Garnacho (for all his praise), Anthony, Bruno and Hojland. For a suppposed to tier team that is very poor, isnt it?

Last season we had Rashford score an incredible amount of goals but he was helped enormously by an in form Bruno and Weghorst who dragged defenders out of position and fantastic wing/full back play from Shaw especially and . Rashford has superb pace and a great shot but in the box he does resemble at times Raheem Sterling, not knowing what to do or how to execute. Anthony has 3 goals in one year? A lot of goals came from great wingplay by Shaw Dalot and WBS on the right, some good assist by Eriksen and some fine ones from Casemiro. But Eriksen is flawed in defence and Casemiro is very mistake prone too, gathering up cards way too much. We had great defenders in an ageing Varane and new star Martinez but both arent available or available enough(Varane).

Together with the lack of Shaw, who really is the superstar in United? Bruno? Very erratic behavior. Hoijland? Too soon to know. Sancho? He was even worse than Bruno and Rashford combined. Rashford? while he was so good last season, at this moment he doesn any superstar quality or versatility at all. Garnacho isnt the finished product.

ETH has been dealing with a glazer family who seemed blinded by the above expectation 22/23 finish, wich in a large part came from a hugely underperforming LFC and Chelsea nevermind Spurs. But all those clubs invested in really great players. ETH wanted Kane, there was talk of Osimhen. How come Maddisson was overlooked by United scouts? A decent replacement for Varane? United was haggling way too long for Hojlund, the Onana, and then some average stop plugs in Amrabat and Reguilon. You could say buying Mount, anthony was a mistake but even if they arent the upgrade, they al feel a lot like LVG era buys: 2nd rate when the manager demanded a much bigger and more expensive name.

I hope the wing backs get back soon. Dalot was so instrumental in setting up attacks. And United had some great chances but, like until Hojland came, there is no striker substitute. Rashford surely isnt as he showed pre season, and Martial is just not good enough for this level. Bottom line imo is the Glazers are much, much at fault here. Last summer an Osimhen, a Kane shouldv been bought with Hoijlud as back up. A choice 1 midfielder back up for Casemiro, (MacAllister anyone?). I never understood why Bissouma wasnt poached. Or Rice. Give Arsenal and him a 100plus offer to think about. Instead it was all 2nd rate buys and this is where United is now. With this current crop of players a top 6 finish would be a good result, a quarter final in the CL very good, an FA cup win the best we can hope for.

The shopping list for the new owner/new manager when ETH gets the inevitable blame:

1. a top tier striker. Hojlund was always a gamble, wich it currently shows. This is a plus 1 number one must.
2. a top tier centre defender for eventually replace Varane. On his own with Maguire/evans/lindelof is just the same OGS back bone wich never worked. This is also a pus 1 number one must.
3. a top tier defensive midfielder. Amrabat is good but with just 2 or 3 games and no back up from eriksen, erratic and ageing Casemiro, what is he gonna do. He aint Caicedo, Rodri, Rice or Bissouma. Big teams have a big name in that position.
4. a top tier replacement for Bruno. Peerless passing ability but his finishing, overall return and leadership is just not top tier. He is no Odegaard, Maddison, De Bruyne, Guimaeres.
5. If Shaw/Malacia remain in the medical team: a top tier left wing back.

A 5-600 pound investment sheet. If not, good luck with the next manager. And the one after him. And the one after him. Atm, id stikck with ETH. He has realy improved the wing play, the attacking in the box is much better with some great chances but if you dont have the players to finish them, its a waste of time.

 

[baskinginthesun]

I envy people who maintain it was a good performance and we should have been 3-0/4-0 up by middle of second half as if that’s a true belief they hold, I am sure with that level of optimism they can convince themselves of everything and life must be very easy.

TBH, that was me for quite awhile. But, now I get the feeling all those missed chances are symptom of how tactically inept we are. And I'm sure there is some animosity with players like Garnacho and Martial, who have been presented with great opportunities to score but haven't, because they're getting left on the bench.

 

[Borys]

Why does everyone think Kobenhavn are crap? Bayern struggled with them, and they would have deservedly beaten Galatasaray away, if not for the late red card at 2 nil up. They're not as bad as people think.

I think we would have won far more comfortably if we had a left footed centre back that could switch play to the right and right footer that could switch play to the left. This was one of the big issues in the first half. ETH went more risky in the second half and could have easily lost us the game. Especially when our forwards are misfiring.

I don't think they are crap, but I don't think they were any good yesterday so on a normal day, that would've been a routine win. This argument can be extended to our last 2 league games as well. We on the other hand look completely crap until Eriksen comes to form 2 man midfield. But it's yesterday news and I doubt this is something bothering ETH, he has his plan and seems to be going got this new system with or without the players needed for it.

 

[pocco]

No one is accepting anything. But some people have enough common sense to see all the injuries and context around the current situation and are willing to wait when the manager has run of games with actual healthy team. There is no "cult of manager" bullshit, no excuses, I and many are willing to admit it is time to move on from ETH but doing that in current circumstances is silly. You can call everything you don't agree with "excuses" but it wont change the fact that we are missing literally our whole defense, which is one of the most important part in ETH's game.

At the moment we are, yes. But earlier in the season we weren't. And we've had first choice defenders back at different points, whilst performances stayed the same. Martinez and Varane have been rubbish this season. Besides, we're not even facing quality opponents and struggling, do we need our £800m team to be able to outplay conference/lower level opposition? It's just excuses.

 

[Oranges038]

I fully agree. It's just that I think the currently used wingers lack the understanding and/or instinct to know when they should start moving to do this. And that's what leads to the static play we see.

Maybe they are told what to do and that is stay wide. Or maybe they know there's no one who will pick them out with a pass if they do make the run. Either way, just standing there makes no sense.

I just can't get my head around how players at that level, can't seem to identify and attack space.

 

[pocco]

Yeah we have in the lead up to xmas Newcastle (a) Bayern (h) and scousers (a) which looks intimidating to say the least. We desperately need Shaw & AWB back for these games,highly unlikely we will see Licha available for any of them unfortunately. Having said that even when we had the defence last season it fell off after winning League Cup Final. So actually he hasn't got that excuse to fall back on

You can add Chelsea, West Ham and even Villa on boxing day to that. They're all very capable of taking points or beating us right now. The fixtures look just as tough in January too. We're going to drop a lot of points over the next few months.

 

[stefan92]

Maybe they are told what to do and that is stay wide. Or maybe they know there's no one who will pick them out with a pass if they do make the run. Either way, just standing there makes no sense.

I just can't get my head around how players at that level, can't seem to identify and attack space.

I'm sure they are told that, I am also sure that they have instructions what should trigger a run.

But either that trigger doesn't happen, which would be a midfield build up issue or they are missing it. I could imagine both as the build up structure seems to be a problem and a run to assist has different timing than a run to score which at least Rashford definitely prefers.

 

[pocco]

One could argue that defense is the only part of our team that’s playing decently, they even pop up with goals at the other end.

So blaming these defenders for our dogshit midfield and attack performances is just asking for trouble.

If they decide to down tools, who is he going to rely on? Bruno, rashford?

He's a terrible man manager. He'll lose the players soon.

 

[r0663664]

I really don't know what to say about Erik. I think he is great at man management, getting underperformed players out of United. Why is McTominay even starring a game? Since he score, Erik decided that McTominay is the answer to our midfield problem. McTominay should only start if we have injury crisis or when we need a score. McTominay shouldn't be starting games as he doesn't hold the ball well, doesn't pass well and doesn't track runners. If he starts McTominay against City, he is giving City an advantage. We already have Bruno who is a culprit of giving balls away so we can't have 2 liability on the field. Why is Rashford starting? What has he contributed this season? I really hope he has a game plan against City else it is a guarantee lost. Please do something different! Drop Antony, play 4-4-2 with Rashford and Hoijund upfront. Compact midfield and do counter attack. Let's hope he does something different.

 

[GreatDane]

ETH is being very very fortunate imo.

He is just not addressing any of the issues we are having this season and is being bailed out by very very narrow wins under fortunate circumstances.

If you ignore the EFL Cup win against the Palace reserves then we have won the following by ONE GOAL.

Wolves
Forest
Burnley
Brentford
Sheff Utd
Copenhagen

We have lost every other game this season.

Could easily have lost against Brentford and drew vrs Sheff Utd and Copenhagen.

Imagine if that would have happened ?

That game against Palace was the best game this season, and it didn't feature most of our so called star players. It had energy and pace.
Ten Hags unwillingness to drop the underperforming players like Rashford will be the end of him as our manager.

 

[pocco]

ETH is being very very fortunate imo.

He is just not addressing any of the issues we are having this season and is being bailed out by very very narrow wins under fortunate circumstances.

If you ignore the EFL Cup win against the Palace reserves then we have won the following by ONE GOAL.

Wolves
Forest
Burnley
Brentford
Sheff Utd
Copenhagen

We have lost every other game this season.

Could easily have lost against Brentford and drew vrs Sheff Utd and Copenhagen.

Imagine if that would have happened ?

We should have lost to Wolves. If Forest didn't try to defend for 88 minutes then they could and should have took something from that game with a two goal lead. This season could have been so much worse already, yet people still say he's unlucky.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I may not be a coach but through my naked eye I can see what the problem is and what immediate solution can be done to change how we play..

Our problems.

• Carelessness in possession.
• Very big distance between players - - ( this makes passes hard to do,to get it right, our players getting isolated etc)

What the above problems bring forth.

• Incredible turn overs. Our games are ping pong games. Huge spaces in between.
• Zero football control at best.
• Huge physical and mental output to achieve minimal results. 1 nil wins/last minute wins every other game while you've run alot without the ball.

Immediate solution to the above mentioned problems.

1. Squeeze the pitch to about the round circle in the middle. In that our striker should be top of the circle line, and our last defender be at the last tip of the circle.
This will in turn help immensely and immediately on

• a). Possession. - we will be able to play and turn in rings - what people call patterns of play, overloading of pitch, quick passes, quick runs, cut backs etc

• b). With players being near each other, passes will be simple, players will require less physical demand covering huge space, Hollywood passes will decrease by virtual of players are next to each other.

• c). We will attack and defend as a block. - this is the main glaring evidence of how wrong we set-up. Every other team just attack us directly in the middle & we have no solution to it. Because we leave huge amount of space in the middle.

• d). Our players will start playing one twos football. Rashford main weaknesses is running through opposition players, this is brought about by the fact not many players are there for quick one two, he resorts to just running with the ball. You wonder why our attack has no patterns, this is the main reason.

2. Any player who can't play in a squeezed pitch should be benched. If Bruno can't recycle the football in a stacked midfield like Odegaard bench him, if Rashford can't play one - twos like other wingers he should be benched. If Varane or whoever is in defence can't play a high line then benched them.
We have alot of players who need huge amount of spaces for them to play. This is not feasible in 2023.


Will it be easy? absolutely not, but if the team is coached properly in few weeks the blueprint will be there. The hardest part will be dropping these huge ego players who can't play this kind of football.

Anything other thing than change of style will be just going round in circles and the inevitable will happen.

 

[Solius]

Every game is basically the same. Slow passing, pointing where players should be, very few risks taken on the ball, etc..

Even proper shite teams come out with a surprisingly great performance now and then. Us playing a PL team and winning 3 or 4 - 0 is basically impossible right now but would you raise your eyebrow if any other team in the league did it? Bar maybe Luton? We're the footballing version of monotony at the moment.

 

[fallengt]

Results and performances are two very different things, and because tonight's performance was the same dross that's been served up all season it's not that surprising that the manager is being criticized.

I'm very happy about the result, but I'm so tired of seeing us play like 11 strangers that just happened to be wearing the same shirt.

A struggling team is not suddenly going to turn around and beat team team 5 nil every game. The second half performance was something to cheer for, if only players had finished their chances, it would have been an easy match.

But here we only see negative parts. Football may be shit in awhile but some people probably enjoy sacking & chopping more than the sport itself. It's fecking cringe

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Not really sure what he's doing at the moment, what the plan is, or how he's going to change it (or if he even wants to?)

As many have said, results have improved but performances are still largely terrible - that first half yesterday was absolutely shite.

 

[El Jefe]

It’s hilarious how ‘the players’ have been blamed for conspiring to get another coach sacked when it’s actually the players he’s shown little trust in that have saved his bacon. Maguire, Mctominay and Eriksen have been huge in our mini run of wins.

People on here just parrot out lazy narratives. As usual a certain section of Manchester United fans just find it difficult to accept that a manager just might not be as good as they think, it seems like it’s easier to accept conspiracies than what’s happening right in front of their faces.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I don't really see any improvement on what we are trying to do. Its the same fecking shite every game.

 

[Redstain]

He's got a blueprint he sticks to. Single pivot, 4231, similar types of players in similar positions. We just don't have the players. Amrabat is decent but he can't hold a midfield on his own. Rashford is shocking. Bruno lacks discipline. And so on.

Do we want him to adapt or stick to his principles? To be fair Guardiola only ever plays one way. It didn't work at City until they went out and bought him a whole new team, and Klopp had to wait about 4 years until he had the players to fit his system.

But those managers had varied success in the periods of trying to implement things. The reality is Eth isn't close to being a world class manager as those you mentioned are. Spent 400 million and the team is even more unbalanced than last season. The problem with Erik likewise as the issue was with Ole is that the team functions well in one area and then is obsolete in others. The press has been good showing that the players work hard but then they are totally useless in possession making the press of less significance.

This is the managers midfield which is the one area that controls the game so the time fixes all things argument is falling out, Klopp and Pep got better with time, Erik progressively is getting worse with it.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

There was one number one line on the transfer board for all of last season: SIGN A BIG BUY STRIKER ASAP!!

Then, after many had hoped Osimhen, Kane would be bought (maybe Gakpo in january, but nicked by LFC and instead we got world beater Weghorst), 6 weeks(!) into the pre season, a pre season where out of sheer lack of resources the one guy who isnt a centre forward - Rashford - had to play at the 9 (lets not even start with the idiotic ''experiment'' of Sancho playing false nine)and with 2 or 3 lost pre-season matches, an injured unproven youngster in Hoiland was bought.

You can lay blame on ETH all you want, but if management doesnt buy a PL top 4 club striker, then what is he gonna do?

You could see this lack of results coming for months. Actually before the end of may. Many had questions about Hoijlund being the answer to all of this, despite his obvious qualities. If the Glazers dont want to spend like Arsenal, Chelsea in top, top players, proven number one. Then what.

 

[Mart1974]

There are a lot of fickle people on this forum. Ten Hag is dealing with a disrupted side and getting results. Have some faith.

 

[RedUnited86]

There are a lot of fickle people on this forum. Ten Hag is dealing with a disrupted side and getting results. Have some faith.

We've got one foot out of the Champions League. We're 8th in the league, 8 points behind Spurs with a -2 goal difference.

Yeah, he's getting results

 

[Sarni]

TBH, that was me for quite awhile. But, now I get the feeling all those missed chances are symptom of how tactically inept we are. And I'm sure there is some animosity with players like Garnacho and Martial, who have been presented with great opportunities to score but haven't, because they're getting left on the bench.

We did not even create that many great chances. Before our goal our best one was Garnacho which was a counter attack, probably a goal more often than not but having a couple of decent opportunities on the counter against a weak Copenhagen team at home, and creating virtually nothing in possession is frankly embarrassing.

It definitely wasn't a game where we dominated them and should have won handsomely. Our xG was actually lower than theirs, and barely higher excluding penalty, and they also had a few very good chances before the goal (including one great save by Onana). It was a game of two evenly matched sides, not an utter domination with United wasting chance after chance.

 

[Sarni]

We've got one foot out of the Champions League. We're 8th in the league, 8 points behind Spurs with a -2 goal difference.

Yeah, he's getting results

HE WON THE TROPHY, WHY DON'T YOU GIVE HIM CREDIT

 

[Devil77]

There are a lot of fickle people on this forum. Ten Hag is dealing with a disrupted side and getting results. Have some faith.

His signings have mostly been underwhelming. We see no patterns of play and we are scrambling to get results whoever we play. And we haven’t won an away game vs a top 6 side since he took over. So the reactions are not over the top.

 

[RedUnited86]

HE WON THE TROPHY, WHY DON'T YOU GIVE HIM CREDIT

And we've looked nothing less than dog shit in every game since then. If he can't turn this big ship around, he needs to go.

Actually let me rephrase the above. If he's unwilling to set standards and drop under performing players ie Rashford, Bruno, Antony etc, then he deserves to go.

 

[Wumminator]

We've got one foot out of the Champions League. We're 8th in the league, 8 points behind Spurs with a -2 goal difference.

Yeah, he's getting results

One foot out of the Champions League?

What do you mean? We could easily qualify from here.

We’re also not half way through the season yet - so let’s give him a bit of time. We finished third last year over a full time frame.

Why compare him to Spurs? They’re the outlier at the moment and we could easily finish above them. We actually outplayed them at their own ground and had a definite penalty not given:

We could easily focus on the positives. Despite having a ridiculous injury crisis and players out of form - we’re close to top four and could go through every cup competition we’re in.

 

[lex talionis]

Performances need to improve, but for the moment results will do.

 

[stefan92]

One foot out of the Champions League?

What do you mean? We could easily qualify from here.

Yes but you are third after half of the group stage and have only one home but two away matches left. That is more likely to drop out then to stay in the CL.

 

[Sarni]

His signings have mostly been underwhelming. We see no patterns of play and we are scrambling to get results whoever we play. And we haven’t won an away game vs a top 6 side since he took over. So the reactions are not over the top.

Recently we've actually been bailed out largely by players we actively tried to get rid of, and the new signings are among the players who perform the worst (and in some cases they don't even play anymore, see Mount).

 

[cyberman]

I get what you mean, but those fecked up passes don't show up on opposition team either. You have to play this game both ways.

We've created enough chances to win yesterday, don't think that was a very big issue. It was OK game, if you don't count in the level of opposition we played and the fact we should be blowing them out of the water.

The performance, especially in the first half, was atrocious though.

I honestly don’t think we give the same chances and openings that we continually feck up. There’s 4/5 of those instances from last night alone that had me punching walls. Our front 3 in the league have 1 goal between them. It’s not like they aren’t getting chances, they’re just missing and falling over their own feet. That’s a lot of chances and situations missed because our front 3 should be at the end of most chances created

 

[cyberman]

Yes but you are third after half of the group stage and have only one home but two away matches left. That is more likely to drop out then to stay in the CL.

Galatasaray are only a point ahead and have the exact same fixture list?

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

There are a lot of fickle people on this forum. Ten Hag is dealing with a disrupted side and getting results. Have some faith.

absolutely, he is dealing with a shitshow from above and certain players since he joined. Don't fall for the mainstream media narrative that seem to be trying their best to get a sack story with Utd.

 

[NLunited]

We are in a terrible phase where there is no confidence, no rhythm and our forwards are hopelessly out of form.

There is a slight improvement in that we are narrowly winning games instead of narrowly losing them.

Ten Hag deserves some criticism but much of it has been unfair.

-Spurs: people mention Ange being a much better coach because he is doing well?: I’d like to remind you we outclassed Spurs for the whole first half, Ten Hag clearly had his number.

-Dropping Rashford for Garnacho: Garnacho is not better than Rashford right now, not even close.

-Ten Hag not selecting players who are performing well and playing favorites: Total bollocks, he selected McTominay and Maguire on the basis of good performances. Mount is on the bench for having been underwhelming.

We are dogshit right now, but I’d like to see what we look like after our injured fullbacks and defenders come back. And hopefully our wingers find some form. Last night should have been a three goal win, easily.

 

[Jeffthered]

There are a lot of fickle people on this forum. Ten Hag is dealing with a disrupted side and getting results. Have some faith.

We're not all fickle and there are a number of very good points being made. ETH has most of the squad fit and playing. And look at us. You think Martinez and Shaw will make that much of a difference? I do not. They are both excellent players, but what should we expect when they return? We have no method of playing from the keeper, or our back line... who is supposed to get on the ball and make us play back there? Look at how we play.

That's all on ETH. He protects certain players. Look at Man City.. they pay £100m for Grealish, and guess what? Pep wanted something else, his scouts responded to his requirements, pinpointed Doku and surprise, surprise, Doku looks a fine player. And Grealish... well, he's on the bench. That's how a big club with a top manager operate.

Now look at ETH with Bruno and Rashford.

I hope for his sake that Man City don't really turn up at the weekend. They aren't exactly flying right now, so maybe this is the best time to play them.

 

[stefan92]

Galatasaray are only a point ahead and have the exact same fixture list?

Yes, so both have one foot in R16 and one foot out, with Galatasaray having a slight advantage. I'm not claiming that United has no chance, just that it is a very real risk that United drops out of the CL.