Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Redstain]

Im interested in what sort of hit rate you think a manager should have in the transfer market? As in, what percentage of players that they buy should turn out to be hits?

I updated the post to say 4 out of 8 players across two to three windows during the first few seasons but maybe 4 out of 10. 4 players across various positions is enough to form a spine around. As it stands United for me currently have two by way of influence and levels of performance Casemiro and Martinez. Casemiro is a slight issue because father time we don't know when he would need replacing but the fact some of the summer reports mentioned having a backup for him with links to Onana is pretty telling.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

By binning DDG and bringing in Onana ETH has caused himself a problem.

When it was DDG and Maguire at the back, everyone pressed us high up the field knowing we where likely to make a mistake.

With teams high pressing us, if we could get past that high press we could counter with great effect with the likes of Rashford.

By brining in Onana and dropping Maguire, everyone has stopped with the high press because Onana is good at getting through it so they now all sit back with the low block knowing we are just as crap at dealing with that.

Its no real surprise Rashford's form has dipped because he's not getting the space he once got, Sancho would be better against low block sides but hey.

ETH needs to react to this like teams have reacted to Onana but do we have the players to do that ? and what kind of formation would you set up to beat the low block with the players we have ?

 

[AltiUn]

By binning DDG and bringing in Onana ETH has caused himself a problem.

When it was DDG and Maguire at the back, everyone pressed us high up the field knowing we where likely to make a mistake.

With teams high pressing us, if we could get past that high press we could counter with great effect with the likes of Rashford.

By brining in Onana and dropping Maguire, everyone has stopped with the high press because Onana is good at getting through it so they now all sit back with the low block knowing we are just as crap at dealing with that.

Its no real surprise Rashford's form has dipped because he's not getting the space he once got, Sancho would be better against low block sides but hey.

ETH needs to react to this like teams have reacted to Onana but do we have the players to do that ? and what kind of formation would you set up to beat the low block with the players we have ?

Your reasoning makes sense. He probably tried solving this by playing Mount and Fernandes but that currently isn't working as neither are creating chances.

 

[Real Name]

By binning DDG and bringing in Onana ETH has caused himself a problem.

When it was DDG and Maguire at the back, everyone pressed us high up the field knowing we where likely to make a mistake.

With teams high pressing us, if we could get past that high press we could counter with great effect with the likes of Rashford.

By brining in Onana and dropping Maguire, everyone has stopped with the high press because Onana is good at getting through it so they now all sit back with the low block knowing we are just as crap at dealing with that.

Its no real surprise Rashford's form has dipped because he's not getting the space he once got, Sancho would be better against low block sides but hey.

ETH needs to react to this like teams have reacted to Onana but do we have the players to do that ? and what kind of formation would you set up to beat the low block with the players we have ?

So we should have continued to play long ball to Rashford?

 

[golden_blunder]

I didn't know that my comment would sound like someone who actually existed, i.e a redcafe member and a football fan who hasn't heard of the Overmars debacle. Need I spell it? It was a sarcastic comment.

You’d be surprised

 

[ScholesyTheWise]

So we should have continued to play long ball to Rashford?

I'm far from being a fan of it and it reeks of something a small team would do/aspire to do,

but there's no denying this "gameplan" is the one that brought us the most points in recent years, under different managers.

moving away from it requires very good coaching (seemed like ETH was certainly a good choice, but now not so much?),
and other players than the ones we have.

Trying to break a low block with Bruno and Rashford as your main men in attack will never be a pretty sight.
If you have them you're going to need plenty of space, and for the game to entail some degree of chaos that they could use to their advantage.

 

[Ubik]

I'm far from being a fan of it and it reeks of something a small team would do/aspire to do,

but there's no denying this "gameplan" is the one that brought us the most points in recent years, under different managers.

moving away from it requires very good coaching (seemed like ETH was certainly a good choice, but now not so much?),
and other players than the ones we have.

Trying to break a low block with Bruno and Rashford as your main men in attack will never be a pretty sight.
If you have them you're going to need plenty of space, and for the game to entail some degree of chaos that they could use to their advantage.

If we're happy being a team whose absolute ceiling is a distant second (when other teams are having off years) and the odd cup win, then yeah we can carry on with that.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[gaffs]

------------------Onana---------
AWB----Varane--Martinez----Shaw
-------Casemiro---Amrabat----------
Antony-----------Bruno------Rashford
------------------------Hojlund----------------

Regulion
Bayindir
Evans
Mount
Eriksen
Malacia

In the space of 12 months. Make no mistake - this is his team and squad. And if he fails, it'll be because he's been unable to get a tune out of players he and he alone had oversight over. The irony is, had he kept Rangnick on, he might have had a case for having to work with players he didn't particularly rate, but whatever happens is all on him - he insisted on having complete control and has been backed.

Totally right. Very few managers have had the autonomy on transfers that Ten Hag has. And the fact that this is now "his team" is amplified by the number of his former players that he has signed - Onana, Martinez, Anthony, Amrabat. Plus there ones like Malacia, which were obviously Ten Hag driven.

Not saying these are bad players or bad signings, but no one can say that ETH wasnt backed with his guys.

Just like in previous teams under previous managers, there isn't one player there that he bought that could be sold for a profit.

 

[gaffs]

What a mess.

Obviously dont know the culprit, but this is what happens when you freeze out players.

McTominay and Maguire - if they are not wanted, get rid. The last thing a club needs are players that are unhappy and hanging around.

 

[Real Name]

No resale value in that team. That's horrible. Why didnt ETH and the club think about that, for how much money each player can be sold down the line. Not one can be sold.

 

[el3mel]

When will the notion performances since the Carabao cup have been attrocius die. Sure, it should have been better and it hasnt been anything special but there's a notion we've been a shambles, yet we finished 3rd. If you count from the final to the end of last season at least. Its just a myth that keeps on repeating.

Well, unlike you, we actually watch the games and don't just depend on "3rd and League Cup so we're good" argument.

 

[Real Name]

What a mess.

Obviously dont know the culprit, but this is what happens when you freeze out players.

McTominay and Macguire - if they are not wanted, get rid. The last thing a club needs are players that are unhappy and hanging around.

How exactly were they freezed out. How exactly do you know its them? Especially the Macguire guy, who's that anyway?

Huge assumptions there. You're making things up then going with the made up story.

 

[gaffs]

Obviously this stubborn, dictatorshiplike style of managing isn't working at Man United. To turn it around he needs to change up both his tactics and approach to the squad.

Fine to run things like a dictatorship if you are getting results, or if you come in with a proven and extensive track record of success.

But when it starts to turn sour, the citizens will revolt.

Very intersting what Zlatan said...

"Ajax is a talented club. They have the best talents in the club. They don't have big stars.

"What is the experience of this coach? Young talents, he comes to United, it is a different mentality. Their players there are supposed to be big stars. I don't think you give the same treatment."

 

[VP89]

Obviously this stubborn, dictatorshiplike style of managing isn't working at Man United. To turn it around he needs to change up both his tactics and approach to the squad.

Its it a dictatorship though?

 

[Amir]

This was always going to be a disaster. I will never understand how and why a manager (not EtH specifically) would go to a club of United's stature and resource understand that there are a multitude of talents in world football across Europe and South America and come to the decision of only hiring signees that have had some ties with former positions of management.

I can only assume it's because that club doesn't have the quality scouting system needed, or that the manager doesn't trust it for whatever (possibly good) reason.

I also think Moyes was kind of in the same situation. He was used to Everton level and Everton money signings. Suddenly he got the United job. So he spent most of his first summer going for a couple of his Everton players and big names everyone knew about like Bale and Cesc (and only finally like someone like Herrera).

 

[Real Name]

Obviously this stubborn, dictatorshiplike style of managing isn't working at Man United. To turn it around he needs to change up both his tactics and approach to the squad.

A what?

 

[Ubik]

"Dictatorship" meaning, turn up to training on time and put effort in. We didn't suffer through the blitz for this level of fascism on our shores.

 

[Real Name]

Fine to run things like a dictatorship if you are getting results, or if you come in with a proven and extensive track record of success.

But when it starts to turn sour, the citizens will revolt.

Very intersting what Zlatan said...

"Ajax is a talented club. They have the best talents in the club. They don't have big stars.

"What is the experience of this coach? Young talents, he comes to United, it is a different mentality. Their players there are supposed to be big stars. I don't think you give the same treatment."

Seems so Ronaldo was right?

 

[Real Name]

"Dictatorship" meaning, turn up to training on time and put effort in. We didn't suffer through the blitz for this level of fascism on our shores.

I'm amazed at the things written here. Amazed. It's like a parallel universe of some sort.

 

[gaffs]

How exactly were they freezed out. How exactly do you know its them? Especially the Macguire guy, who's that anyway?

Huge assumptions there. You're making things up then going with the made up story.

I said we dont know who it is.

My point though is if you sideline players, Maguire being and example of such, then you are going to create an unhappy atmosphere, especially when not winning.

As soon as Maguire was stripped of the captaincy, he should have been sold, even at a bargain price.
Same for McT. You try and sell him, they you have to make sure you get rid.
Nothing worse than keeping an unwanted player. Every player in that dressing room will know there is a bunch of players who the manager does not want. Cant be good for morale. Dont see that at Liverpool, City or Arsenal.

 

[Shinjch]

"Dictatorship" meaning, turn up to training on time and put effort in. We didn't suffer through the blitz for this level of fascism on our shores.

Some of the posts/posters in this thread are getting increasingly deranged.

 

[stefan92]

"Dictatorship" meaning, turn up to training on time and put effort in. We didn't suffer through the blitz for this level of fascism on our shores.

When I read such stupid posts I am wondering if we should have blitzed you even more back in the day...

 

[Shinjch]

I said we dont know who it is.

My point though is if you sideline players, Maguire being and example of such, then you are going to create an unhappy atmosphere, especially when not winning.

As soon as Maguire was stripped of the captaincy, he should have been sold, even at a bargain price.
Same for McT. You try and sell him, they you have to make sure you get rid.
Nothing worse than keeping an unwanted player. Every player in that dressing room will know there is a bunch of players who the manager does not want. Cant be good for morale. Dont see that at Liverpool, City or Arsenal.

Not being able to sell unwanted players is not a problem that started at this club with Ten Hag. It is a problem that will persist at this club until the root issues are addressed, no matter who the manager is.

 

[Kostov]

Obviously this stubborn, dictatorshiplike style of managing isn't working at Man United. To turn it around he needs to change up both his tactics and approach to the squad.

Have you slept over the Sir Alex era of almost 3 decades? It's the only way back for this club if there is one at all. We have to stomp out bad attitudes and culture, ETH needs to be consistent though and bench Rashford next.

 

[Real Name]

I said we dont know who it is.

Exactly. Excellent point.

 

[gaffs]

Not being able to sell unwanted players is not a problem that started at this club with Ten Hag. It is a problem that will persist at this club until the root issues are addressed, no matter who the manager is.

The club and manager had their chance to offload Maguire.

They even knocked back a bid for McTominay.

 

[Real Name]

The club and manager had their chance to offload Maguire.

They even knocked back a bid for McTominay.

Both were on sale or you didnt keep track?

 

[gaffs]

Have you slept over the Sir Alex era of almost 3 decades? It's the only way back for this club if there is one at all. We have to stomp out bad attitudes and culture, ETH needs to be consistent though and bench Rashford next.

Rio says it on his shows every week. SAF created the culture and the players carried it through. The players used to set the standards for each other. They all knew their levels could never drop. There were leaders throughout the dressing room.

For whatever reason, ETH has not yet been able to set those standars he talks about. Maybe he doent know how to? Or maybe his players are not receptive enough. Im suprised it has not happend given the number of his signings have ben brought in.

 

[gaffs]

Both were on sale or you didnt keep track?

Yes, on sale. Yet still here.

When players are not wanted, it is imperative you get rid.

 

[Shinjch]

The club and manager had their chance to offload Maguire.

They even knocked back a bid for McTominay.

I don't honestly know how much clearer that the manager could have made it that Maguire was not in his plans and could leave. Obviously without explicitly stating that he thinks Maguire is shite and needs to go. It is then on the club to get him out, something that the club has failed with time and time again through the years no matter who the manager is.

This is also probably part of the reason why we are signing so many players that Ten Hag has dealt with previously. The club is so inept in the market.

 

[AltiUn]

Rio says it on his shows every week. SAF created the culture and the players carried it through. The players used to set the standards for each other. They all knew their levels could never drop. There were leaders throughout the dressing room.

For whatever reason, ETH has not yet been able to set those standars he talks about. Maybe he doent know how to? Or maybe his players are not receptive enough. Im suprised it has not happend given the number of his signings have ben brought in.

I think it's because the players know they can just get any manager sacked as they do every single time, too much player power. The first step is to weed out the trouble makers and send them packing but then you run the risk of upsetting their mates and fracturing the dressing room which leads to abysmal results which means ultimately you'll get sacked before you can get rid of the trouble makers and then the cycle begins again. We need wholesale changes and to make some very tough decisions when getting rid of players.

 

[Amir]

Not being able to sell unwanted players is not a problem that started at this club with Ten Hag. It is a problem that will persist at this club until the root issues are addressed, no matter who the manager is.

I'd say that we we REALLY need to change is simply buy better. It will mean we'll have far less unwanted players to sell.

The amount of players people wanted rid of this summer was quite lenghtly and we were never going to sell them all in one window.

 

[Kostov]

Rio says it on his shows every week. SAF created the culture and the players carried it through. The players used to set the standards for each other. They all knew their levels could never drop. There were leaders throughout the dressing room.

For whatever reason, ETH has not yet been able to set those standars he talks about. Maybe he doent know how to? Or maybe his players are not receptive enough. Im suprised it has not happend given the number of his signings have ben brought in.

The main point, nowadays Bruno wears the armband and he is whining little weasel who hardly inspires any confidence with those stupid antics of his. Add to that Rashford and couple of others, we really have a team of nobodies character wise.

 

[gaffs]

I don't honestly know how much clearer that the manager could have made it that Maguire was not in his plans and could leave. Obviously without explicitly stating that he thinks Maguire is shite and needs to go. It is then on the club to get him out, something that the club has failed with time and time again through the years no matter who the manager is.

This is also probably part of the reason why we are signing so many players that Ten Hag has dealt with previously. The club is so inept in the market.

Maguire wanted his contract paid up to cover the difference in salary he would have received by going to West Ham.
United should have paid it out and taken the transfer fee. ETH should have made it crystal clear that Maguire was not wanted, no mater the financial hit. And even if that means that a replacement cant be signed right now.

Get rid of the dead wood rather than having them moping around the place.

 

[Solius]

The main point, nowadays Bruno wears the armband and he is whining little weasel who hardly inspires any confidence with those stupid antics of his. Add to that Rashford and couple of others, we really have a team of nobodies character wise.

Bizarre to have such an active dislike of Bruno. All you see is that he moans to refs on the pitch. Plenty of players do this.

He basically single handedly dragged this club through the majority of 2020 and is consistently one of our best producers. Calling him a weasel feels like something an oppo fan would say.

 

[Luffy]

You’d be surprised

Okay, moving on.

 

[gaffs]

I think it's because the players know they can just get any manager sacked as they do every single time, too much player power. The first step is to weed out the trouble makers and send them packing but then you run the risk of upsetting their mates and fracturing the dressing room which leads to abysmal results which means ultimately you'll get sacked before you can get rid of the trouble makers and then the cycle begins again. We need wholesale changes and to make some very tough decisions when getting rid of players.

Is there any coincidence that Sancho gets frozen out and BFFs Rashford loses form?

 

[Shinjch]

I'd say that we we REALLY need to change is simply buy better. It will mean we'll have far less unwanted players to sell.

The amount of players people wanted rid of this summer was quite lenghtly and we were never going to sell them all in one window.

Yea, agreed on the buying. But there still seems to be no proper strategy at the club for how we operate in the market, it just gets handed on to the manager seemingly which is a nonsense considering we are no doubt paying good money to a lot of people just to pass the buck to the first team manager.

Yea, the list was lengthy alright, and will continue to be lengthy if we are unable to get rid of players who should no longer be at the club. Where we are as a club and as a squad is not down to the dealings of the last year - it is a culmination of years of failure in the market.

 

[gaffs]

The main point, nowadays Bruno wears the armband and he is whining little weasel who hardly inspires any confidence with those stupid antics of his. Add to that Rashford and couple of others, we really have a team of nobodies character wise.

I dont think Bruno is an issue. I feel he is one that knits the groups together. Maybe not a stereotypical captain, but few are these days.

The Keane, Terry, Adams and Robson era of captains is long gone.