Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[ole@thewheel]

I think he should make drastic changes in the way we play and who should play, in order to get the team back on track.

This is not the team that understands the 'carrot' but only 'the stick' and he should act quickly before we drown totally. Of you remember early last season similar approach helped quite a lot, when he dropped the likes of Maguire, McT and Shaw, and changed the way we started the attacks.

No reason why he can't do that again. What he can do is simply dropping Rashford and reverting to a 4231/4411 rather than a 433, with Bruno playing further up.

 

[Luffy]

Let’s hope that there’s no women on the interview panel

Right. We don't want them distracted by that handsome devil.

 

[Rightnr]

Right. We don't want them distracted by that handsome devil.

Errm...

 

[gaffs]

Here is the starting point you made...

He hasn't overweighted ex players, and the players he did sign were good signings except for Antony so far.

Just look at the players signed. It is clear that there a massive "weighting" towards Ten Hags ex players or those from his Dutch league knowledge.

Onana, Martinez, Amrabat, Anthony. 200mil of ex players.

Then you add in Malacia, who was clearly an ETH Dutch scouted player.

Truly outstanding. You say Antony is a poor signing. I say Antony is a poor signing. You say I am making excuses. Have a word with yourself.

You make excuses for ETH. Not Anthony.

Mount's actually been playing pretty well for us in the past 1.5 games since his return, so this bold bit is a steaming pile of BS.

Agree, Mount hasn't been too bad. But having two number eights is not working. Tried it against Wolves and Forest and we were wide open to the counter. Didn't work against Palace too.

Because of his versatility, he will get moved elsewhere, but then you may have bought someone who was a specialist in that position.

He bought a player to fit a system only to find the system doesn't work.

No, it started because you cited the below and acted like it was a problem:
"Never in the history of the Premier League has a manager gone back and signed so many of his old players."

Not necessarily a problem, but a fact. No other manager has been afforded the opportunity to go back and buy so many of his old players.

It will be a problem when the next manager gets left with ETHs signings. Not one will have appreciated in value.

^ Eriksen never played matches under Ten Hag before joining, nor did Weghorst, nor did Malacia, or Casemiro, or Hojlund, or Regulon. So the weighting you put is overexaggerated and utter BS.

Weghorst / Regulon - emergency loans.
Casemiro - emergency / reactionary signing after not getting FDJ and getting beat by Brighton and Brentford.
Eriksen and Malacia - ETH signings given he had the knowledge of them.

From the fact that they haven't built up a CV of competence in a Director of Football role prior. Murtough is our DoF equivalent by the way. The person you pointed out was the head of DoF operations, which shows how little you know about our actual infrastructure.

Read his linked in....
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/andy-o-boyle-17496813

As i said, Dept Director of Foootball.

We know he pushed for the players I named because very credible articles were pointing to the fact that we were in for them. Take Todibo for example - Melissa Reddy (who was bang on the money for our coverage) said that WE had done due diligence on Todibo and led negotiations with his representatives.

And was he a Ten Hag or club driven target?

Right so you'll happily make up the ones that he wanted and ignore the others as rumors. Excellent logic.

Who did i make up? Name it. Quote it!
I have not said one person who Ten Hag wanted, beyond FDJ and Kane.

A very silly comment, we were in for these players - we even made an offer to Rabiot for feck sake. It wasn't purely his agent, what is wrong with you

Again, irrelevant as you dont know if Rabiot was a ETH or club instigated target, so irrelevant to this "weighting " conversation.

The club bought him. They could have veto'ed Antony, they didn't. Antony was a player who was also on our scout's radar and the club have the right to veto a target if they didn't buy into him. Don't put everything on Ten Hag just to try and peddle a daft narrative insinuating the club is "wed to Ten Hag's targets" only. That's utter bullshit. They can veto his signings if they aren't on board with a name - it's a club decision.

When it's a player from another club, who a manager has not worked with, there is always going to be a risk.

But when Ten Hag goes back and pays 80mil for Anthony from his former club, he wears that one given he knows him best.

Again, you are making excuses for him.

 

[Ágætis Byrjun]

My two cents: he is not convincing enough tactically and it would take at least 2 full seasons to judge his man management skills as well. And, as far as his market activity is concerned, one really cannot blame him solely given the structure and personnel we have for the very job. No manager is expected to have market knowledge and connections all over the world so they always tend to resort to a handful of players that they know/ have previously worked with. That's where the DOF comes in. If you sign Casemiro because you couldn't land FDJ, that indicates that whoever's idea that was simply didn't get the assignment, or, more likely, incompetent.

 

[blazinRe'D']

I think his decision to try and convert us to a high pressing/high possession team when we're plagued with injuries and issues is the main cause of this. Added with the fact I don't think the players in this team are quick to adapt to the style or incapable (remains to be seen).

Either way he has shown some ineptness in not being flexible enough or smart enough to revert to our usual 4231 counter attacking style when we are literally getting run through in midfield. It's clear Cas doesn't have the legs to run that space alone and needs help , I hope his plan is to use Amrabat there when needed.

All that being said I still think he should get till the end of the season at least to tweak it out. We had no right to be in the CL after the season before last year and a well functioning high pressing/high transition united team does sound exciting atleast hypothetically.

 

[golden_blunder]

Right. We don't want them distracted by that handsome devil.

I guess you don’t know why he was sacked by Ajax

 

[golden_blunder]

My two cents: he is not convincing enough tactically and it would take at least 2 full seasons to judge his man management skills as well. And, as far as his market activity is concerned, one really cannot blame him solely given the structure and personnel we have for the very job. No manager is expected to have market knowledge and connections all over the world so they always tend to resort to a handful of players that they know/ have previously worked with. That's where the DOF comes in. If you sign Casemiro because you couldn't land FDJ, that indicates that whoever's idea that was simply didn't get the assignment, or, more likely, incompetent.

We were in talks with Casemiro since the December before he arrived so safe to assume that ETH was well aware too

 

[Chaky_Best]

To be honest, except the loss against Brighton where the team has been torn apart, we were absolutely unlucky in our games. (I can add also the Wolves game were the game plan was bad and Ten Hag should have acted differently).

Wolves ==> we won but were too open, and Ten Hag should have managed his game differently, being more cautious than what he did.
Spurs ==> We played well for 35 mins, should have had a penalty and the game would have been different.
Forest ==> We won, but were horrible on defending set pieces, other than that we were good that day.
Arsenal ==> They were not dangerous at all. Garnacho scored an offside goal, Hojlund could have a penalty too, but we were unlucky playing both Maguire and Evans at the end.
Brighton ==> Disaster and to me it's Ten Hag's tactic that increase the gap between them and us.
Bayern ==> Think we were ok during this game, running a lot and defending a lot.
Burnley ==> Solid
Palace ==> We were solid before their goal and then we were not good enough.

What I mean is that there is a thin margin between changing these games into win. Probably more quality upfront in Rashford and Hojlund, more control in midfield and a more solid defense.

But to be honest, with a new keeper, with our injured players and probably some out of forms it's difficult to make miracles.

Any way, Ten Hag should be a bit more pragmatic in his approach, having less the ball, and creating more spaces. I don't know if Rashford should be benched, but at least subbes during the games.

His game plan his based on Lisandro taking the ball out, we had also Shaw covering a lot with his pace and power, so you have not this second pass in the system. He should find another way of playing I think. Potentially being more cautious, once Reguilon will be back we can have a midfield 2 with Amrabat and Casemiro, meaning with have one more option for the pass. Then Ten Hag will have to choose between Mount and Bruno as a 10 and fix the issue on the right wing.

I trust in Ten Hag, I don't trust most of these players.

 

[NoPace]

The issue for me is no one seems to know what "Ten Hag" football is. And if they do, we have not seen it at United yet.

I think Ange and Spurs success isn't helping Ten Hag right now because he has managed to come into a team with, on paper, a much weaker squad, who had lost their best player, and still managed to stamp his brand of football on his team within a matter of months.

Good article on "Ange Ball" here...

https://theanalyst.com/na/2023/06/ange-ball-explained-how-postecoglou-could-reinvigorate-tottenham/

https://theathletic.com/1173672/201...ams-of-the-decade-ajax-update-total-football/

Ten Hag just doesn't seem to be trying to replicate his Ajax team here.

To quote from that article:

"a fundamental part of which involved playing a high line and deploying ultra-technical footballers in defensive positions."
-Onana and Lisandro yes, and even Malacia in terms of style, so not a million miles off here.

The other distinguishing feature of this Ajax side, however, was a departure from the traditional Total Football principles — which always prescribed width down both flanks, stretching the play whenever possible, dragging defenders apart and creating gaps for others to play through. Under Erik ten Hag, Ajax’s wingers play a completely different way, because Hakim Ziyech and David Neres constantly cross the pitch in an attempt to combine with one another, overloading the opposition full-back.

What’s more, in Ajax’s wins over Real Madrid and Juventus they were often supported by an overlapping full-back and a couple of central midfielders, before playing rapid one-touch passing moves around defenders. They would then, on occasion, switch play to the opposite full-back, who often found himself with half the pitch to himself. It’s difficult to think of another side who have placed such emphasis upon overloading one side of the pitch in this manner.
-Have we seen any of this? Van De Beek is in the side and he looks lost because nobody plays this way. We don't overload anywhere.

If we assume the peak of his Ajax team was going to the Bernabeu and winning 4-1, I count a spine of 5 guys who are comfortable in tight spaces and passing it short in the middle (Tadic, Van De Beek, De Jong, Schone (a #10 playing at DM), Blind and Onana, and then De Ligt a conventional CB).

Right now we have Martial, Eriksen (sort of, he's past it but Schone was even older), Amrabat looks to be comfortable with this sort of play, Lisandro and Onana. Martial and Eriksen can't be relied upon and Van De Beek has lost all his powers in some sort of Space Jam style incident.

The ruthless rebuild move would be to:

1) Sell Bruno to a team that needs a creative #10 and doesn't prioritize possession (Atletico, Newcastle)
2) Rashford to PSG to replace Mbappe
3) Casemiro to a team that needs some physicality in midfield

and the others who just need to go because they can't handle possession play either (Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, McTominay) use the money to buy better fits to become a younger, pressing, possession based team like this:

----------------------------------Hojlund(false 9 type)------------------
Garnacho(LW)---------------Mount(VDB)--------------Antony(Amad)
------------------------------#8(Mainoo)------Amrabat(DM)------------------
Shaw (Malacia)---Licha(LCB)------Varane(RCB)---------RB(Dalot)
------------------------------------Onana(GK/Bayindir)---------------------------

and give time to Hannibal and Gore and hope at least one turns out to be a star but weirdly it doesn't seem like Ten Hag is trying to recreate that sort of team here.

The issues would be that we'd comfortably miss out on the CL for a year or 2 (I mean look at that team, it's not great) and I think that would get Ten Hag fired, and we have to find stars in the transfer market at Striker (Hojlund has potential but we'd need a #9 who can drop deep and play a bit too) and #8, but it would be fun to watch us embrace a youth movement and try to do what Arsenal have successfully done, though there's no guarantee you get a Saka or Odegaard just by promoting youth or buying a promising young Madrid washout.

Instead he's looked at Rashford, Bruno and Casemiro and decided (understandably) that we should play on the counter, but then he did buy Onana, Lisandro and Antony who you'd think he would build the system around. We did do that at times last season, but it seems like once the games start coming thick and fast and we get some bad results, we're back to pragmatism and having no sense of how to create chances apart from hoping for Rashford to dribble someone or Bruno to pick a pass or find a goal himself.

I don''t really expect us to play well consistently until Lisandro gets back, to be honest. Then we'll see.

If we end up out of the race for the top 5 and out of Europe, the last 10 games of the season needs to be about Ten Hag playing the youth and establishing a team like he built at Ajax based around pressing and being able to play on the ball, neither of which we do well, though again it will be tough to fit Bruno, Rashford and Casemiro into that type of football, and those are our best front 6 players.

 

[Havak]

I really worry for EtH now. It's the first time I've felt like he could go. I have huge sympathy for him, because it feels like the Manchester United manager role is impossible anyway, but he has had to deal with additional issue after issue on top of having the most difficult and scrutinized job in English football. The players will probably cost him in the end, he will be the scapegoat - not Jadon Sancho.

That said, while it might sound harsh, I think he could have made a number of different decisions this season and we simply had to be getting over the line in a few extra games. There's been some fine margins and it could of course have been extremely different where we might have only lost 1 or 2 in all competitions. But the fact is, it's 5 losses and it isn't good enough even with all the valid excuses we could list.

Galatasaray H, Brentford H, Sheffield United A, Copenhagen H... I can't see how EtH survives without winning all 4, assuming we lose to City. Newcastle will come to OT and go for it while we will probably be knackered after playing City. It's going to be difficult and if we haven't put some results together then he is unable to rotate for the cup tie. Things can snowball quickly with a late Sunday against City, Wednesday night against Newcastle, Saturday early kick off away to Fulham... feeling very pessimistic. Wouldn't be surprised if the players down tools and EtH is sacked next month. Hope that isn't the case though!

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I just hope he has a limit to how long he persists with the Bruno - Mount - Casemiro midfield (if it isn’t working) as well as how long he keeps starting the underperforming senior players

 

[Judas]

I just hope he has a limit to how long he persists with the Bruno - Mount - Casemiro midfield (if it isn’t working) as well as how long he keeps starting the underperforming senior players

it’ll simply be the death of him, and as much as I like him, I’ll have no sympathy or complaints if it leads to his end.

 

[Gordon Godot]

it’ll simply be the death of him, and as much as I like him, I’ll have no sympathy or complaints if it leads to his end.

He's unlucky with the take over and then Greenwood/ Antony, though apparently the club failed to pick up that Antony was already subject to an assault claim. But his bias to sign former Ajax or players from Dutch league, often at stupid prizes, has left me pretty indifferent at this point. I suspect he will be gone by Xmas but hope he turns it around. Mount just such a wierd signing when you consider all the midfielders that moved this summer, not least Maddison who was ready made upgrade on Eriksen

 

[VP89]

Here is the starting point you made...

So not what you claim I said, well done. Got there in the end.

Just look at the players signed. It is clear that there a massive "weighting" towards Ten Hags ex players or those from his Dutch league knowledge.

Moving the goalposts from ex players towards "ex players" to those who have played in the Dutch league.
By the way, you have absolutely no idea whether the scouts were in sync with a bulk of these targets (they had already known about Antony, they knew about Mount's capabilities, etc.).

Then you add in Malacia, who was clearly an ETH Dutch scouted player.

Right, so because Malacia was liked by Ten Hag, he must also have not been known or had any due diligence by the scouts we have. Excellent consistency on literally making shit up and assuming Ten Hag had the club over the barrel to sign a player they have apparently feck all idea about.

You make excuses for ETH. Not Anthony.

I've not made one excuse for ETH. I've pointed out that he's adapting to the club and the club have adapted to him. That's not an excuse but an observation from the veto structure they have in place.

Agree, Mount hasn't been too bad. But having two number eights is not working. Tried it against Wolves and Forest and we were wide open to the counter. Didn't work against Palace too.

Far too small a sample size to suggest this, especially considering the Forrest goal came from a Rashford feck up, not the system, and their second was a set piece. Palace's goal was also a set piece. That has feck all to do with counters. In fact we were countered less against them than we were in the previous system.

He bought a player to fit a system only to find the system doesn't work.

Bit daft to rule this after around 3-4 games (where Mount didnt even play the full 90). His amazing Ajax side took way longer to click and familiarize. You probably need some patience.

Not necessarily a problem, but a fact. No other manager has been afforded the opportunity to go back and buy so many of his old players.

It will be a problem when the next manager gets left with ETHs signings. Not one will have appreciated in value.

No other manager has walked into quite the big club circus as Ten Hag, what's your point?
You're also just guesstimating what happens when he leaves. This is what you are reduced to.

.
Eriksen and Malacia - ETH signings given he had the knowledge of them.

Right because our scouts had absolutely no knowledge of these players prior to us buying them. fecking hell

.
Read his linked in....
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/andy-o-boyle-17496813

As i said, Dept Director of Foootball.

Read the full remit on the official website: https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...ed-director-of-football-operations-at-man-utd

As I said, you need to do more on understanding our infrastructure.

.
And was he a Ten Hag or club driven target?

You have feck all to point to one or the other, so whats the point in debating it? You're literally saying "xyz played in Holland, he must be pushed by ten hag, and our scouts probably never heard of them".

.
Who did i make up? Name it. Quote it!
I have not said one person who Ten Hag wanted, beyond FDJ and Kane.

You are making up your own rules on who Ten Hag wanted. You say he wanted FDJ and Kane but you cant confirm if he wanted Tobido etc. Even though its reported that we were pushing for talks with Tobido's representatives and did our own due diligence on him, you are making up utter shite like "oh that might have been put out by his agents "

.
Again, irrelevant as you dont know if Rabiot was a ETH or club instigated target, so irrelevant to this "weighting " conversation.

You can't just assume who was an ETH target and who wasn't. That's not how this works. Ultimately ETH and the club have agreed on various targets and ended up going for second or third choice in a lot of them. Whether its Kim, Tobido, Rabiot, Gakpo, Cucurella, FDJ, Kane or whoever - he's had to adapt to them as much as they've adapted to him/

.
Again, you are making excuses for him.

I get you struggle to read posts and completely miss the point, but this rebuttal is getting tiresome. You haven't pointed to one thing I've ACTUALLY said that suggests I'm making excuses for him.

 

[KD6-3.7]

So who do you want to start ? The kids ??

Well some of them did a better job against palace than the so called first team players did a few days later.

Why start Rashford in this atrocious run of form when Garnacho is right there. Do not play Mount and Bruno in midfield together and play Hannibal over one of them.

 

[Gordon Godot]

So not what you claim I said, well done. Got there in the end.


Moving the goalposts from ex players towards "ex players" to those who have played in the Dutch league.
By the way, you have absolutely no idea whether the scouts were in sync with a bulk of these targets (they had already known about Antony, they knew about Mount's capabilities, etc.).


Right, so because Malacia was liked by Ten Hag, he must also have not been known or had any due diligence by the scouts we have. Excellent consistency on literally making shit up and assuming Ten Hag had the club over the barrel to sign a player they have apparently feck all idea about.


I've not made one excuse for ETH. I've pointed out that he's adapting to the club and the club have adapted to him. That's not an excuse but an observation from the veto structure they have in place.


Far too small a sample size to suggest this, especially considering the Forrest goal came from a Rashford feck up, not the system, and their second was a set piece. Palace's goal was also a set piece. That has feck all to do with counters. In fact we were countered less against them than we were in the previous system.


Bit daft to rule this after around 3-4 games (where Mount didnt even play the full 90). His amazing Ajax side took way longer to click and familiarize. You probably need some patience.



No other manager has walked into quite the big club circus as Ten Hag, what's your point?
You're also just guesstimating what happens when he leaves. This is what you are reduced to.


Right because our scouts had absolutely no knowledge of these players prior to us buying them. fecking hell


Read the full remit on the official website: https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...ed-director-of-football-operations-at-man-utd

As I said, you need to do more on understanding our infrastructure.


You have feck all to point to one or the other, so whats the point in debating it? You're literally saying "xyz played in Holland, he must be pushed by ten hag, and our scouts probably never heard of them".


You are making up your own rules on who Ten Hag wanted. You say he wanted FDJ and Kane but you cant confirm if he wanted Tobido etc. Even though its reported that we were pushing for talks with Tobido's representatives and did our own due diligence on him, you are making up utter shite like "oh that might have been put out by his agents "




You can't just assume who was an ETH target and who wasn't. That's not how this works. Ultimately ETH and the club have agreed on various targets and ended up going for second or third choice in a lot of them. Whether its Kim, Tobido, Rabiot, Gakpo, Cucurella, FDJ, Kane or whoever - he's had to adapt to them as much as they've adapted to him/


I get you struggle to read posts and completely miss the point, but this rebuttal is getting tiresome. You haven't pointed to one thing I've ACTUALLY said that suggests I'm making excuses for him.

Come off it. ETH has shown a massive bias for players from the Dutch league, which is unprecedented for a top club and we have never seen anything like that from Pep or Klopp. Its embarrassing, something like 8 or 9 signings from Ajax or Dutch league. It was widely leaked the scouts had tracked Antony for a while and didnt think he was suited for Premier league. What does Mount offer in terms of upgrading our midfield, apart from once playing a blinder against Ajax when on loan in Holland? Why spend £60m plus on a keeper who was on a free last summer and then Reya available for half the price. I dont want ETH to fail but lets not pretend he's not making his own problems with signings. If he goes next manager inherist an even big mess than ETH did

 

[Ágætis Byrjun]

We were in talks with Casemiro since the December before he arrived so safe to assume that ETH was well aware too

I am not against the signing of Casemiro nor ETH's judgement. Football is moving on from signing players to signing profiles and our transfers seem so unpolarized and appears we buy some players for the sake of buying them or them being available with little thought going in on how to use them on the pitch to get the manager's desired style. FDJ and the likes and Case and the likes are two different profiles of midfielders and they add different skillset to the general play of the team.

On a different note, I feel like we buy midfielders who thrives in midfield 3 (Pogba with Vidal/Marchisio, Pirlo; Casemiro with Kroos, Modric) and play them in a double pivot. Warum?

 

[golden_blunder]

It’s cheaper to sack the manager than take a huge financial loss on Sancho

 

[VP89]

Come off it. ETH has shown a massive bias for players from the Dutch league, which is unprecedented for a top club and we have never seen anything like that from Pep or Klopp. Its embarrassing, something like 8 or 9 signings from Ajax or Dutch league. It was widely leaked the scouts had tracked Antony for a while and didnt think he was suited for Premier league. What does Mount offer in terms of upgrading our midfield, apart from once playing a blinder against Ajax when on loan in Holland? Why spend £60m plus on a keeper who was on a free last summer and then Reya available for half the price. I dont want ETH to fail but lets not pretend he's not making his own problems with signings. If he goes next manager inherist an even big mess than ETH did

I mean the sentence in bold just demonstrates why this isn't worthy of debating, I cant help but laugh.

I didnt say Ten Hag hasn't had players of his choice by the way. I'm saying he's also had to miss out on certain choices which had no affiliation with the Dutch league.

Read better.

 

[Laurencio]

It’s cheaper to sack the manager than take a huge financial loss on Sancho

Especially when the team is underperforming. If we were flying high Sancho would lose every time, but we're not flying high, we're quite crap. Unless results improve drastically I don't think Sancho is out the door before ETH.

 

[Real Name]

I mean the sentence in bold just demonstrates why this isn't worthy of debating, I cant help but laugh.

I didnt say Ten Hag hasn't had players of his choice by the way. I'm saying he's also had to miss out on certain choices which had no affiliation with the Dutch league.

Read better.

You torn his post apart yet he sticks with the same stuff, of course beginning with come of it.
Incredible.

 

[quadrant]

I really worry for EtH now. It's the first time I've felt like he could go. I have huge sympathy for him, because it feels like the Manchester United manager role is impossible anyway, but he has had to deal with additional issue after issue on top of having the most difficult and scrutinized job in English football. The players will probably cost him in the end, he will be the scapegoat - not Jadon Sancho.

That said, while it might sound harsh, I think he could have made a number of different decisions this season and we simply had to be getting over the line in a few extra games. There's been some fine margins and it could of course have been extremely different where we might have only lost 1 or 2 in all competitions. But the fact is, it's 5 losses and it isn't good enough even with all the valid excuses we could list.

Galatasaray H, Brentford H, Sheffield United A, Copenhagen H... I can't see how EtH survives without winning all 4, assuming we lose to City. Newcastle will come to OT and go for it while we will probably be knackered after playing City. It's going to be difficult and if we haven't put some results together then he is unable to rotate for the cup tie. Things can snowball quickly with a late Sunday against City, Wednesday night against Newcastle, Saturday early kick off away to Fulham... feeling very pessimistic. Wouldn't be surprised if the players down tools and EtH is sacked next month. Hope that isn't the case though!

I agree ETH has made tactical mistakes. The problem is, you can't have a situation where its only the manager's tactics that are standing between you and defeat. As we've seen many, many times over the years, the big clubs have sufficient firepower that they can win games even when other parts of the team arent working.

At United, we've ended up in the situation where our manager has to turn water into wine every week. Vs Palace we had a bang out of form Rashford, a crocked Martial and a handful of youngsters with barely a couple of dozen career goals to their name making up our front line. Its true that the coach might have bridged that gap, but that's not going to happen every week. Eventually it'll tell.

This is why I'm so against the idea of changing manager right now. The squad is so patchy that poor spell of form are just inevitable. The idea that managers like, say, Emery, Rose, Conte or Di Zerbi (who are all good coaches btw) will be able to guarantee consistency week after week in the long term with the players we have right now just seems like wishful thinking.

 

[gaffs]

Come off it. ETH has shown a massive bias for players from the Dutch league, which is unprecedented for a top club and we have never seen anything like that from Pep or Klopp. Its embarrassing, something like 8 or 9 signings from Ajax or Dutch league. It was widely leaked the scouts had tracked Antony for a while and didnt think he was suited for Premier league. What does Mount offer in terms of upgrading our midfield, apart from once playing a blinder against Ajax when on loan in Holland? Why spend £60m plus on a keeper who was on a free last summer and then Reya available for half the price. I dont want ETH to fail but lets not pretend he's not making his own problems with signings. If he goes next manager inherist an even big mess than ETH did

well said mate.

@VP89 is having a nightmare here.

Links this morning to Matthijs De Light!

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/ma...-transfers-signings-rumours-gossip-paper-talk

 

[santeria13]

I've generally been supportive of him, but if he starts Rashford yet again after so many bad performances, I will really start to question him. It's either favouritism or a lack of balls.

Garnacho looked good last time he started and has played well in his cameos. There's absolutely no reason he shouldn't get another chance. He was no worse in the first 3 games where he started than Rashford has been since.

He rightfully called out Garnacho for not being good enough in those starts so why doesn't the same apply to Rashford and why is he defending him in the media when he had no problem calling out Garnacho for the same thing? I fear he is scared of how Rashford would react in terms of the both the dressing room influence and to his PR team/media.

 

[RedUnited86]

------------------Onana---------
AWB----Varane--Martinez----Shaw
-------Casemiro---Amrabat----------
Antony-----------Bruno------Rashford
------------------------Hojlund----------------

Regulion
Bayindir
Evans
Mount
Eriksen
Malacia

In the space of 12 months. Make no mistake - this is his team and squad. And if he fails, it'll be because he's been unable to get a tune out of players he and he alone had oversight over. The irony is, had he kept Rangnick on, he might have had a case for having to work with players he didn't particularly rate, but whatever happens is all on him - he insisted on having complete control and has been backed.

 

[Luffy]

I guess you don’t know why he was sacked by Ajax

I didn't know that my comment would sound like someone who actually existed, i.e a redcafe member and a football fan who hasn't heard of the Overmars debacle. Need I spell it? It was a sarcastic comment.

 

[troylocker]

Obviously this stubborn, dictatorshiplike style of managing isn't working at Man United. To turn it around he needs to change up both his tactics and approach to the squad.

 

[Shinjch]

If he is buying so many players that he has had previous connections with it is every bit a club failing as it is a failing of his own. If anything, it is a bigger failure of the club. Either others at the club who work on recruitment don't have the connections to be able to get deals done, or they are happy to just pass the buck to the manager in the hopes that he can then be blamed for any failings in the market. Either way, it speaks to a huge problem with the recruitment at the club.

 

[Donut]

Ultimately it is the board's fault they bought every player he wanted, but I can see how they were fooled. ETH had an aura about him, and it looked like we were progressing, it made sense to give him what he wanted. Now that the aura is gone and he's been somewhat exposed the majority of his buys look shite in hindsight.

 

[RedRocket9908]

If we lose tonight at home against a Galatasaray side who struggled away at Molde I real consideration has to be given to letting him go as he dosnt seem to be able to get a performance out of an expensively assembled squad and does very little to change things around when we are struggling.

The performances since the Carabou Cup final have been attrocious with us even struggling to win at home against sides we should be beating fairly easilly like Saints, Wolves, and Nottm Forest.

Comparing this situation with what happened if Sir Alex's early years is ridiculous as that was a different era and Sir Alex inherited an awful squad while Erik inherited one of the most expensively assembled squads in the world.

 

[Ubik]

If we lose tonight at home against a Galatasaray side who struggled away at Molde I real consideration has to be given to letting him go as he dosnt seem to be able to get a performance out of an expensively assembled squad and does very little to change things around when we are struggling.

The performances since the Carabou Cup final have been attrocious with us even struggling to win at home against sides we should be beating fairly easilly like Saints, Wolves, and Nottm Forest.

Comparing this situation with what happened if Sir Alex's early years is ridiculous as that was a different era and Sir Alex inherited an awful squad while Erik inherited one of the most expensively assembled squads in the world.

These two things aren't actually mutually exclusive!

 

[Real Name]

When will the notion performances since the Carabao cup have been attrocius die. Sure, it should have been better and it hasnt been anything special but there's a notion we've been a shambles, yet we finished 3rd. If you count from the final to the end of last season at least. Its just a myth that keeps on repeating.

 

[Redstain]

If he is buying so many players that he has had previous connections with it is every bit a club failing as it is a failing of his own. If anything, it is a bigger failure of the club. Either others at the club who work on recruitment don't have the connections to be able to get deals done, or they are happy to just pass the buck to the manager in the hopes that he can then be blamed for any failings in the market.

This was always going to be a disaster. I will never understand how and why a manager (not EtH specifically) would go to a club of United's stature and resource understand that there are a multitude of talents in world football across Europe and South America and come to the decision of only hiring signees that have had some ties with former positions of management. The writing is on the wall in some regards if it doesn't change. Every manager who has had to prove themselves moving forward the Klopps, Poch, Arteta's has had to get recruitment correct. Not every player needs to be a hit but the manager needs sign enough successful players to form the spine of the team around. So atleast 4 out of 8 signings need to be hits with no hesitation in the infancy stages.

For me in terms of ratio it's 50/50 on both the manager and the club.

 

[the_cliff]

------------------Onana---------
AWB----Varane--Martinez----Shaw
-------Casemiro---Amrabat----------
Antony-----------Bruno------Rashford
------------------------Hojlund----------------

Regulion
Bayindir
Evans
Mount
Eriksen
Malacia

In the space of 12 months. Make no mistake - this is his team and squad. And if he fails, it'll be because he's been unable to get a tune out of players he and he alone had oversight over. The irony is, had he kept Rangnick on, he might have had a case for having to work with players he didn't particularly rate, but whatever happens is all on him - he insisted on having complete control and has been backed.

I agree with you.

However, we haven't even been able to play 1 game with the starting line up you mentioned this season due to injuries.

 

[quadrant]

If we lose tonight at home against a Galatasaray side who struggled away at Molde I real consideration has to be given to letting him go as he dosnt seem to be able to get a performance out of an expensively assembled squad and does very little to change things around when we are struggling.

The performances since the Carabou Cup final have been attrocious with us even struggling to win at home against sides we should be beating fairly easilly like Saints, Wolves, and Nottm Forest.

Comparing this situation with what happened if Sir Alex's early years is ridiculous as that was a different era and Sir Alex inherited an awful squad while Erik inherited one of the most expensively assembled squads in the world.

That doesnt mean it was good.

 

[V.O.]

When will the notion performances since the Carabao cup have been attrocius die. Sure, it should have been better and it hasnt been anything special but there's a notion we've been a shambles, yet we finished 3rd. If you count from the final to the end of last season at least. Its just a myth that keeps on repeating.

I think the crisis is pretty overblown considering the injury situation, and the fact that we've played Spurs away, Arsenal away, Bayern away, and could easily have gotten a result in any/all of them if not for shit luck and dodgy ref decisions.

Performances in the Wolves and Brighton games were dire, but our general level otherwise hasn't been bad, let alone meltdown worthy.

 

[quadrant]

This was always going to be a disaster. I will never understand how and why a manager (not EtH specifically) would go to a club of United's stature and resource understand that there are a multitude of talents in world football across Europe and South America and come to the decision of only hiring signees that have had some ties with former positions of management. The writing is on the wall in some regards if it doesn't change. Every manager who has had to prove themselves moving forward the Klopps, Poch, Arteta's has had to get recruitment correct. Not every player needs to be a hit but the manager needs sign enough players to form the spine of the team around.

For me in terms of ratio it's 50/50 on both the manager and the club.

Im interested in what sort of hit rate you think a manager should have in the transfer market? As in, what percentage of players that they buy should turn out to be hits?

 

[Real Name]

I think the crisis is pretty overblown considering the injury situation, and the fact that we've played Spurs away, Arsenal away, Bayern away, and could easily have gotten a result in any/all of them if not for shit luck and dodgy ref decisions.

Performances in the Wolves and Brighton games were dire, but our general level otherwise hasn't been bad, let alone meltdown worthy.

Agreed. Saying that it will be worrisome to say the least if the bad results continue.

 

[Havak]

I agree ETH has made tactical mistakes. The problem is, you can't have a situation where its only the manager's tactics that are standing between you and defeat. As we've seen many, many times over the years, the big clubs have sufficient firepower that they can win games even when other parts of the team aren't working.

At United, we've ended up in the situation where our manager has to turn water into wine every week. Vs Palace we had a bang out of form Rashford, a crocked Martial and a handful of youngsters with barely a couple of dozen career goals to their name making up our front line. Its true that the coach might have bridged that gap, but that's not going to happen every week. Eventually it'll tell.

This is why I'm so against the idea of changing manager right now. The squad is so patchy that poor spell of form are just inevitable. The idea that managers like, say, Emery, Rose, Conte or Di Zerbi (who are all good coaches btw) will be able to guarantee consistency week after week in the long term with the players we have right now just seems like wishful thinking.

I absolutely agree and I hope we stick with EtH unless it becomes an outright relegation battle. He's trying to implement a different identity, but he's never really had a period where he hasn't had extreme adversity to content with (bar that stint last season where we went on a long unbeaten run with a decent period of minimal injuries). No coincidence that this was when we had a player scoring goals consistently either...

I see similarities to our approach play to Man City, but our wide players in particular aren't making the right decisions. It might be a simple fact that they can't learn to play this way and aren't good enough to do it. But that's going to be a decision for EtH because we aren't getting any new ones. Does he change or keep persisting in hope that it develops and finally clicks?

He also isn't going to get much time on the training field now with multiple games a week and international breaks... Bottom line is he must win games. The next four have to be wins and then we play Fulham A, Luton H, Galatasaray A, Everton A after City/Newcastle before we get into December. Personally, while it sounds small time, I can deal with losing to City and getting knocked out of the League Cup by Newcastle as long as the following is applicable: 1. We don't get embarrassed and 2. We win the four gamed before and four games after.

Need some stability, confidence, and players back from injury. Hopefully a bit of a fresh start in December. We'll see how it goes, hopefully things start going right for the boss!