Loan him and look to sell more actively. It's not rocket science.
If a player is unprofessional you dont keep him around the squad. It's bizarre anyone would think you should.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
If a player is unprofessional you dont keep him around the squad. It's bizarre anyone would think you should.
I honestly don't think Sancho was that upset with the comment in particular. He hasn't been getting in the team regularly since the day he arrived, and bar one or two performances he's been underwhelming.
He obviously doesn't have the discipline and motivation necessary to get back into the team, like AWB did. He wants out, this is just a convenient excuse for him and his agent to latch onto.
You let the world know he is a bad trainer, his value plummets. The pool of teams that could take Sancho was already tiny.
Or you put up with him another couple of months and sell him, even if he the club take a loss on the transfer fee. Anything to get him off the wage bill.
We are forced to loan him out now, thus giving us nothing further to work with from an FFP perspective.
Self own from Ten Hag.
Sancho is a baby.
Not sure if he does want out because he knows there is nowhere that will pay him 300k+ a week. We wants to phone in his effort and performances. Or he is seriously deluded about that it takes to meet the required standards.
Only issue is that Ten Hag has given Sancho an easy kop out now. He can get paid for playing XBOX. 3 years of that will cost the club 60mil.
If you want rid of a player, dont tell the world he is a shitty trainer.
He said he didn't do well enough in training that week to get in the squad, which would've been forgotten about already had he not tweeted. There's no rationalising stuff like this, Sancho did something dumb. That's pretty much it.
I still think he could do well in Italy, and there'll be some club out there that thinks they can get that Dortmund form out of him.
I dont think that keeping quiet about Sancho being a crap trainer in press conferences is going to hide the fact from other clubs or potential buyers. At this level the others will already know all about him, a lot more than we do too i'm sure. Its just a pity that Woodward was playing DOF at the time we were in for Sancho.
Sancho just needs pushed out the door as soon as possible now.
It seems pretty clear now that the instructions for ETH from the board were to implement a more modern playing style with Rashford and Bruno as the focal points as they're the faces of the club. All of the transfers in are in line with that as a long term goal aside from Eriksen and Casemiro, which isn't to say they can't be useful players to us with a new system, they're just a bit old.
I think the bigger issue is something you've mentioned in a few posts: if we're going to write Rashford and Bruno's names in pen on the teamsheet before it's ever handed to the manager, he'll never have the authority to get those guys to get away from their comfort zone. It's pretty clear to me that's what's happening now as every other winger presses and tracks back far more enthusiastically than Rashford does.
I think a lot of fans and posters believe that a manager's authority is simply a personality trait but the root of it is in job stability and being backed by the board in his relationships with the players. Klopp and Guardiola don't need to spend a lot of time pleading and motivating players, if the players don't listen to the manager, their clubs get rid of them, without exception. Ten Hag was probably afforded that luxury at Ajax, and he's clearly been given it for certain players, but if it's not extended to the whole team then the players who are above the manager will inevitably end up running the dressing room.
I'd add that it's not entirely Rashford's fault, that's not what I'm saying. I think all but the most motivated, competitive people are going to stay in their comfort zone if they can, and Rashford is no exception.
Can it help?
Not only do they know he is a crappy trainer. They know he is a petulant f!ck who puts himself ahead of the team.
Interesting thread on our final third problems.
You're talking about a guy who broke covid lockdown rules to get a haircut.
He also has very poor time management issues, which he was disciplined for at Dortmund.
If ten Hag doesn't give a reason for not selecting him, the media goes wild and off on tangents about this, that and the other, which would prove an unnecessary distraction. Instead, ten Hag used it as an example to the players, either abide by the standards and rules as expected, or you're out the team, which is the way it should be. Sancho is just a big ass man baby, the way he reacted with the tweet said it all, guy has a defeatist mentality and one we'd do very well to get rid of.
This a problem created far above the manager. The players know a few things that go massively in their favour:
They are on big contracts that need to be matched to shift them.
They are considered valuable assets by our business run owners who do not want to take losses on them.
They've been rewarded with said contracts for having above average performances once every 3/4 years.
The way we have been run has allowed this toxic culture to breed with the players feeling invincible and this has been compounded by the club sacking all failing managers while we have players who have survived 4+ managers without having anywhere close to displaying the required levels consistently.
Rooney talked about it with Pogba and Lingard dancing in the changing rooms after a loss. Ralf and Ole talked about it, Jose talked about it and now Erik has said about the culture that has been inherited.
Big Ange and DzB have been heralded as heroes for Spurs & Brighton respectively but one thing everyone fails to look at is the culture of the players and their contracts. Those teams have players that could only dream of having the contract De Gea had or Rashford has.
Rashford & Sanchos contracts are 2x more than Son's, are they 2 times the player?
Could Ange or De Zeb have more power to motivate or challenge the player power & culture we have gave the players in our club?
I agree. Sancho is a baby. He should be able to take it on the chin.
But ETH calling him out hasn't worked. It has created 10x the amount of "unnecessary distraction" that saying nothing would have.
Now we have a fast depreciating asset, with a massively damaged reputation, costing 300k a week for the next 3 or so years.
If he sits his contract out, it will cost us 60+ mil. If ETH had said nothing and tried his hardest to sell him in Jan, we could have freed up a shit load of FFP space. He must have already knows that Sancho was a dead duck at the club, so why publicly damage him further.
There hasn't been anything about this since ten Hag shut it down in the press.
We've had many fast depreciating assets in the past and have them now, the club will still move on with, even them in the squad.
What? There is Sancho news on the daily. Xbox, questions at every presser, Dortmund today.
Every player we buy is a fast depreciating asset. That includes ETHs signings. There isnt one today that could be sold for more than what we paid.
We aren't forced to do anything, we are doing it by choice because sancho is unprofessional. Lots of top managers have criticised their players in public when the situation was verging on untenable. Get over it.
This is like your moan about ten hag signing his own players before admitting you didn't have a problem with the signings
so just to recap the latest defense people are using to slate EtH, he now shouldve just ignored sanchos effort/professionalism and regardless of anything just kept playing him so we could preserve value to sell him? Yeah that sounds like a smashing plan.
We aren't forced to do anything, we are doing it by choice because sancho is unprofessional. Lots of top managers have criticised their players in public when the situation was verging on untenable. Get over it.
This is like your moan about ten hag signing his own players before admitting you didn't have a problem with the signings
We? It's ETH. Complete self own that will cost the club millions and mean that he has less to work with.
Zlatan is right...
"Coming from Ajax to United as he did is a big difference. I have been in both clubs,' he began. 'You have a different kind of discipline.
'Ajax is a talented club. They have the best talents in the club. They don't have big stars. What is the experience of this coach? Young talents, he comes to United, it is a different mentality."
He meant that in the sense of expectation and time you get to get the project rolled out. He didn't criticise ten hag, even when he was baited to do so.
Also it's not just him, stop acting like he as the club bent over a barrel. It's getting tiresome and it's really daft to insinuate the club aren't working with the manager on these all types of situations.
Ten Hag didn't even buy Sancho
What a stupid time to make this nonsense point.
Do you have learning difficulties? Who said Ten Hag bought Sancho?
All ETH has done with Sancho by calling him out is made his value plummet.
ETH has continued the trend in buying players that come in and depreciate in value.....
Anthony - get 30 mil for him, max.
Casemiro - Only came for a pension. Only hope that we can flog him to Saudi.
Onana - looks dodgy. Arsenal pick up Reya for half the price.
Martinez - value wise, perhaps a wash. But ETH played him though an injury and out done for month now.
Of the ones that he has inherited very few, if any have improved. Maybe AWB, but lets remember he was great at Palace, so he is only probably back to that level now. That is before ETH brought him on for 5 mins in an already settled game when he was unfit - now he is out for 2 months!
He is continuing the trend of Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole - buying players and making them worse.
Errr no.
He said....
"The players there are supposed to be big stars. I don't think you give the same treatment."
This clearly tells even the dumbest nuts that he believes ETH is trying to treat United players like Ajax kids.
He has come in with this discipline agenda. Do the players need it? Probably.
Is he the right man to be dishing it out? Maybe not given he has won nothing of any significance. Dutch leeague when you have everyone else outgunned is not significant.
Has he earned the respect of players, like a Zidane would instantly because of his legendary status and managerial record.
Honestly, he is starting to look like a pound land Pep.
He did try the absolute opposite of calling him out last season by letting him take a mid season sabbatical in fairness. Neither did that approach work. Neither did the approaches of the other managers we had here at getting Sancho in any kind of consistent output. So based on these facts I’m going to suggest ETH could have done anything and it wouldn’t have mattered this season with him. As for devaluing him…no one was spending 20m on him regardless as his wages make him a complete no no coupled with his suspect ability out of a system he excelled in years ago. So the manager hasn’t cost the club 70m in lost transfer income etc he’s cost the club nothing apart from making a statement to every young player at United what’s expected or you’re out.
Ps that could have a positive impact on how the futures of our other young players turn out here and our recent buys Antony and mount….
From another thread in the Transfer Forum......
The shit that we have signed for huge sums when you look at what our rivals have bought for less!
The shit that we have signed for huge sums when you look at what our rivals have bought for less!
Never a good sign when a manager starts arsing about with formations.
He already tried the molly cuddling approach. No player randomly gets a break mid season to work on his own psychological and fitness issues when they aren't even injured. The length ten hag went to before resorting to this was above and beyond.
You narrate the biggest pile of drivel on the caf of late it's quite something.
This was always the case pre ten hag. You can make this list going back 10 years. Why is it a ten hag specific issue?
Are you telling me ETH planned to call out Sancho as a last resort?
I dont believe that. I think it was an off the cuff response post a frustrating loss to Arsenal.
If it wasnt, then it was really badly thought out.
Sancho is a waster.
But ETH should have been pragmatic about the situation. Agree, he has done a lot for Sancho - it is unheard of what he did, letting him go to Holland to refocus.
But now, if you want to call him out, do it to his face. If that doesnt work, nothing will. Doing it publically wont help.
The 70mil transfer fee is long gone. But we could at least look to have tried to get him shifted on a free and have someone else pay the wages, thus creating FFP room.
Looks like we will be loaned out and we will pay the tab!
The only incorrect thing Ten Hag did during this Sancho farce was expecting Sancho to be somewhat professional. Although, if you have someone turning up late for training and not performing to your expectations then you should realise there's a strong possibility that said player is going to react like a whining cnut.
Agree, he gave him a lot of molly cuddling.
Resorting to calling him out though has just created a problem all round.
The focus should have been on shifting him, not isolating him and making a sale untenable.
It is like purposely crashing your car, the day you plan to sell it!
Say the same for you.
You should be playing tonight, as you are better at defending ETH than half the dross he has signed!
Okay, pretty clear you're just trolling at this point.
He was asked why he wasn’t in the squad I believe and he answered that the player wasn’t performing in training or something. The players pick the team as Keane often says and it’s pretty obvious to everyone anyway if you ain’t in the squad and you’re fit you are under performing. He’s not performing in games either which is also very obvious to us all. Giving the truth to a question is what you didn’t want to happen. Sancho isn’t a great example when attacking the manager, the lad has done nothing and shouldn’t have been given this long to shine but because of wages out of the managers hands he’s stuck with him. Maybe he wanted him out in Jan and this was his best bet. Looks to have done the trick. Also perhaps the guys above the manager were not capable or willing to move him on. He created an impasse now forcing their hands. Who knows the politics involved.
Yeah, that's where i'm at. It's funny to hear Zlatan saying something similar to Piers Morgan. Then again, as Solskjaer mentioned, the club are pretty straightforward and honest about what they want from the manager. I just wish someone will explain to them the practical difficulties of what they want to achieve. Because if this goes on, sooner or later, most up-and-coming managers will begin to politely decline their offers.
explain Cancelo?
Agree. Said nothing offensive. Sancho should be able to take it, but he cant.
ETH should know that he is a thin skinned baby. Honestly think if he had the chance again, he wouldnt have said it. Heat of the moment being too honest.
Unless you think he is playing 3D chess, and this is the way to get rid of Sancho. That may work, but its going to cost us.
You make a fair point, which is why I can understand how some people hold this against EtH. It just highlights some of the shit he's having to work with though.
Totally agree with this. What I also find hilarious is this "He has spent £400 million!" narrative, as if ten Hag purposefully dictates Murtough and Joel Glazer over pay for players or setup the ridiculous wages some of our lot get.
Cancelo has a proven, recent track record of excellence at City.
He thought he was worth a start every week, Pep thought otherwise, Pep got rid.
Sancho hasn't played well for years and has this reputation of being problematic. Further enhanced by this recent issue.
City have not sold Cancelo, only loaned. We dont know what the financial agreement is between them and Barca.
If Pep sells Cancelo 18 months ago, when he was at the top of his game, he could have got a huge fee for him.
The focus was on shifting him, we were open to offers last summer. However his ill discipline also doesn't go unnoticed and its evident behind the scenes that Sancho created a problem.
Ten Hag hasn't been the only one to call him out. The Dortmund DoF or CEO did, twice if I'm not mistaken. Southgate has. Don't make it a Ten Hag specific issue like you did with the signings
Says the guy who endorsed silly comments like ruling Mount/Onana/Hojlund as flops when they've barely settled, to try and point fingers at Ten Hag.
You know full well we've overspent on players in the last 15 years but you're peddling a narrative to make it seem like its Ten Hag specfic
We don't need to be Ten Hag fans to know you're talking complete and utter drivel.
Rashford will be the end of ETH.
Everything costs us. We make poor decisions from the top down due to poor leadership and it rightfully costs us. I’m happy with clubs doing well on the pitch because they act right off it. It’s pretty black and white as to how we could improve. He’s not a lucky manager this season either. His preferred back line, preferred Case and Amrabat CM partnership (I suspect) hasn’t been seen..we can’t judge a guy as not good enough after last seasons success story just yet. He wasn’t to know Antony would also be missing . You still have to get results here with 70% of your best players out even if that means 100% of your desired game plan has to be put on hold. He’s getting flack, no problem with that.
- Status