Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
Feel like Erik is not able to express himself as well as he would like. Imagine if you were working in a foreign country, in a different language and communication is core to your job, surely you would be a lot less effective.

There are many successful foreign managers but I feel like they all come across as really fluent and understand pretty much everything perfectly, whereas Ten Hag always seems awkward in interviews and I get the feeling that he doesn't understand 100% of what he is asked.
 
gaffs said:
Maguire wanted his contract paid up to cover the difference in salary he would have received by going to West Ham.
United should have paid it out and taken the transfer fee. ETH should have made it crystal clear that Maguire was not wanted, no mater the financial hit. And even if that means that a replacement cant be signed right now.

Get rid of the dead wood rather than having them moping around the place.
Click to expand...
Agreed on that, but again this is something the club has struggled with for so long. The manager can make it as clear as he likes, which he has done with Maguire, but the problem will persist no matter what first team manager is in post.
 
Solius said:
Bizarre to have such an active dislike of Bruno. All you see is that he moans to refs on the pitch. Plenty of players do this.

He basically single handedly dragged this club through the majority of 2020 and is consistently one of our best producers. Calling him a weasel feels like something an oppo fan would say.
Click to expand...
I have an active dislike of his conduct and persona on the pitch, despite him being our best player. When something isn't right I think it's fine to call it as it is. It's not behaviour that inspires leadership nor something that I want the younger players to look at.
 
LInkash said:
Feel like Erik is not able to express himself as well as he would like. Imagine if you were working in a foreign country, in a different language and communication is core to your job, surely you would be a lot less effective.

There are many successful foreign managers but I feel like they all come across as really fluent and understand pretty much everything perfectly, whereas Ten Hag always seems awkward in interviews and I get the feeling that he doesn't understand 100% of what he is asked.
Click to expand...
I get the feeling he doesn't understand 100% of what he's doing either.
 
AltiUn said:
I think it's because the players know they can just get any manager sacked as they do every single time, too much player power. The first step is to weed out the trouble makers and send them packing but then you run the risk of upsetting their mates and fracturing the dressing room which leads to abysmal results which means ultimately you'll get sacked before you can get rid of the trouble makers and then the cycle begins again. We need wholesale changes and to make some very tough decisions when getting rid of players.
Click to expand...
Which begs the questions why its always our players who has so much power and always wants their manager out.

It just doesn't seem the same case would happen to any other club out there. At least not anywhere near as often as we do.
 
VP89 said:
Is it a dictatorship though?
Click to expand...
Real Name said:
A what?
Click to expand...
The good old ultimate authority, high disipline, bad communication, my way or the high way leadership style.

He has an enourmous amount of resources available to him to help him get the most out of this squad and each and every player in it. Who has improved under him? He seems totally clueless when it comes man management and valueassessment. Imagine having to start Pellistri/Antony every week beacuse you can't handle an immature supertalent you payed a fortune for.
Football is game and for a time now it hasn't seemed like anyone playing in red is having fun on the pitch.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Which begs the questions why its always our players who has so much power and always wants their manager out.

It just doesn't seem the same case would happen to any other club out there.
Click to expand...
Chelsea had that problem for a very long time but it's also to do with none of our managers being quite good enough to justify backing them over the players. Had we signed Klopp or Guardiola I think they would've been good enough to justify it. Maybe ten Hag will be, who knows, he's probably bought himself time with the League Cup win. Let's see how things are looking after January when we've had a chance to move players like Sancho on.
 
Shinjch said:
Yea, agreed on the buying. But there still seems to be no proper strategy at the club for how we operate in the market, it just gets handed on to the manager seemingly which is a nonsense considering we are no doubt paying good money to a lot of people just to pass the buck to the first team manager.
Click to expand...

That is absolutely right. The way we are operating is just not feasible in today's football.

Shinjch said:
Yea, the list was lengthy alright, and will continue to be lengthy if we are unable to get rid of players who should no longer be at the club. Where we are as a club and as a squad is not down to the dealings of the last year - it is a culmination of years of failure in the market.
Click to expand...

But we do get rid of them. I had a look at our squad at the end of the summer of 2019 - just four years ago. Since then, we've let go of De Gea, Bailly, Jones, Pogba, Sanchez, Mata, Lukaku, Smalling, James, Lingard, Pereira, Rojo, Fred, Young, Valencia, Fellaini, Matic, Darmian, Ronaldo - and I'm not counting the younger ones who barely ever got a game or the reserve keepers.

That's a huge amount of players we've let go, and we still have others in our squad today that we'd love to sell or release. The problem wasn't really getting rid of the players who left. It was that we replaced them with other players we now need to get rid of. It's never ending.
 
troylocker said:
He has an enourmous amount of resources available to him to help him get the most out of this squad and each and every player in it. Who has improved under him? He seems totally clueless when it comes man management and valueassessment. Imagine having to start Pellistri/Antony every week beacuse you can't handle an immature supertalent you payed a fortune for.
Click to expand...

What has changed from last season when it seemed as though he was doing quite well on that front?
 
Amir said:
But we do get rid of them. I had a look at our squad at the end of the summer of 2019 - just four years ago. Since then, we've let go of De Gea, Bailly, Jones, Pogba, Sanchez, Mata, Lukaku, Smalling, James, Lingard, Pereira, Rojo, Fred, Young, Valencia, Fellaini, Matic, Darmian, Ronaldo - and I'm not counting the younger ones who barely ever got a game or the reserve keepers.

That's a huge amount of players we've let go, and we still have others in our squad today that we'd love to sell or release. The problem wasn't really getting rid of the players who left. It was that we replaced them with other players we now need to get rid of. It's never ending.
Click to expand...
Fair on the number of players above, but how many of these players were let go at the right time to maximise their value in the market? Dan James and Lukaku? Maybe Pereira? The rest all either stuck around for too long, or their contracts expired. This will always be the sort of thing that will bite us in FFP too, on top of the squad management issues it brings.
 
troylocker said:
The good old ultimate authority, high disipline, bad communication, my way or the high way leadership style.

He has an enourmous amount of resources available to him to help him get the most out of this squad and each and every player in it. Who has improved under him? He seems totally clueless when it comes man management and valueassessment. Imagine having to start Pellistri/Antony every week beacuse you can't handle an immature supertalent you payed a fortune for.
Football is game and for a time now it hasn't seemed like anyone playing in red is having fun on the pitch.
Click to expand...
What is deemed bad communication from him? And what is his way or the high way? Simple things like punctuality? That sounds like a standard way of setting expectations not his way.

Is Arteta a bad disciplinarian with bad communication because of his treatment of his captain Aubameyang?

Is pep bad at communicating because he pretty much openly called Phillips fat?
 
Kostov said:
Have you slept over the Sir Alex era of almost 3 decades? It's the only way back for this club if there is one at all. We have to stomp out bad attitudes and culture, ETH needs to be consistent though and bench Rashford next.
Click to expand...
It isn't 1999 anymore. The competition is harder, the players are bigger stars, the egoes are bigger, the apparatus around the top clubs are much bigger, the money involved is infinitely bigger, social media, pressure etc...
Ultimate authority/disipline leadership is a thing of the past, as it should be. We've move past that. To get the most out of a squad and compete on the top level today, disipline is not enough, you need to hit the sweet spot of every player as well.
 
Grow a pair of balls and drop the under performers. Drop Rashford and start Garnacho. Drop Bruno and start Hannibal. Let’s get some passion back into our football!
 
gaffs said:
Rio says it on his shows every week. SAF created the culture and the players carried it through. The players used to set the standards for each other. They all knew their levels could never drop. There were leaders throughout the dressing room.

For whatever reason, ETH has not yet been able to set those standars he talks about. Maybe he doent know how to? Or maybe his players are not receptive enough. Im suprised it has not happend given the number of his signings have ben brought in.
Click to expand...

Talking about standards isn't enough - actions speak louder than words! Rashford's performances and, more importantly, his work-rate and body language have been appalling this season, yet when he's fit, he plays.

Contrast that with Hannibal, works his socks off every minute he's on the pitch and he's dropped for the Palace game.

I think the fans now have reached the stage we'd rather see inferior players who work hard over so called talented players who don't.
 
Lentwood said:
Talking about standards isn't enough - actions speak louder than words! Rashford's performances and, more importantly, his work-rate and body language have been appalling this season, yet when he's fit, he plays.

Contrast that with Hannibal, works his socks off every minute he's on the pitch and he's dropped for the Palace game.

I think the fans now have reached the stage we'd rather see inferior players who work hard over so called talented players who don't.
Click to expand...

Who you blaming for that?
 
VP89 said:
What is deemed bad communication from him? And what is his way or the high way? Simple things like punctuality? That sounds like a standard way of setting expectations not his way.

Is Arteta a bad disciplinarian with bad communication because of his treatment of his captain Aubameyang?

Is pep bad at communicating because he pretty much openly called Phillips fat?
Click to expand...

What has calling out Sancho actually achived?
 
JediSith said:
It’s hard to explain. But I still believe ETH is the right man for the job. I’m not a “support the manager” at all costs. Far from it. I was Moyes out after 3 months, never felt Ole should have been given the job permanently so even in the season he got us CL football I was up for letting him go that summer.

ETH. Has been very unlucky with injuries off the field issues. He’s obviously got a stubborn side that appears to sabotage his own footballing ideals. But truth be told it’s only speculation that dropping Bruno and / or Rashford will improve our football. I’d like to see him give it a go thou.

I think we need to let him get more players back from injury. Then start judging. But if I was a director of football. I’d be telling him “right when certain amount of players are back need to see 1) style of play 2) results”
Click to expand...

ETH is the most protected manager post SAF era. If this same shit happened under Jose or Ole, the perception here would be totally different. perhaps people have finally realised that there's deeper issue within the club than manager.

FerociousCorgis said:
the whole style of play is why i want him to just bin the fecking players who dont fit how he wants. Mctominay clearly isnt what we want. So stop playing him. If that means we see gore or something and he struggles, so be it. Fans would be so much more understanding of decisions like that vs consistently the same old shit. Maguire too slow to play the high line/quick passing, find a fecking youth player to go there or something idk. Rashford making dumbass decisions/not putting in the work/moving the ball around in possession, let garnacho work thru the struggles or whatever. Hannibal has shown a bit of a spark, but barely gets much of a chance. We limped over the end last season relying on players who couldnt play how he wanted, but yet we seem to try more of the same. Shit we watched week after week of a Case/Eriksen midfield allow cutback goal after cutback goal before things finally started to barely change.
Click to expand...

Here's one thing you need to understand, Man United are being run as business first. The club refuse to take financial loss in regard of selling unwanted/unneeded players, theyd rather keep them simply because they look nicer on the books. Most supporters mistakenly blaming Ole for keeping the likes of Lingard, Baily when it was obvious their time was up but now they are seeing the same old crap is being served upon ETH with Maguire and McT, this policy hampered manager's authority in front of players. They know the manager cannot do anything, cant kick them out even if he want to so they can switch on and off regardless of consequence.
 
VP89 said:
What is deemed bad communication from him? And what is his way or the high way? Simple things like punctuality? That sounds like a standard way of setting expectations not his way.
Is Arteta a bad disciplinarian with bad communication because of his treatment of his captain Aubameyang?
Is pep bad at communicating because he pretty much openly called Phillips fat?
Click to expand...
I'm not saying the players are blameless.
ETH has had 15 months to form, develope, coach and manage Sancho. I'm saying that it seems like that job hasn't been performed to perfection, and that things could have looked very different if he was handled differently.
 
gaffs said:
What has calling out Sancho actually achived?
Click to expand...
Nothing yet but we'll get rid of the waste of space in January which is one more player with a stinking attitude out of the club.
 
AltiUn said:
Nothing yet but we'll get rid of the waste of space in January which is one more player with a stinking attitude out of the club.
Click to expand...
Probably could've done that in the summer without lowering his value even furhter.
 
troylocker said:
I'm not saying the players are blameless.
ETH has had 15 months to form, develope, coach and manage Sancho. I'm saying that it seems like that job hasn't been performed to perfection, and that things could have looked very different if he was handled differently.
Click to expand...
What should have been handled differently? He inherited a player known for poor professionalism since before he joined the club, and this was even observed by the National coach too.

He put an arm round his shoulder, he gave game time, he even gave him time away to work on his own game and psychological issues.

Then he answered bluntly that he had a lack of effort after all of this failed.
 
Shinjch said:
Fair on the number of players above, but how many of these players were let go at the right time to maximise their value in the market? Dan James and Lukaku? Maybe Pereira? The rest all either stuck around for too long, or their contracts expired. This will always be the sort of thing that will bite us in FFP too, on top of the squad management issues it brings.
Click to expand...

Hard to get rid of players when they've got big contrats, they look terrible on the pitch and everyone knows you desperately want them out.

That's why I'm saying our problem is far bigger than getting rid of players on time. If we get the rest right, then this will also be easier. If we don't, then we'll continue to have the same issue with tons of players we want to sell and not enough suckers who will take them.
 
AltiUn said:
Nothing yet but we'll get rid of the waste of space in January which is one more player with a stinking attitude out of the club.
Click to expand...
It's like many people in here believe a bad attitude is an incurable disease. A bad attitude can be fixed and it doesn't come out of nothing.
We need to ask why some of our players have attitude problems and what can we do to make it better or change it around. There's a lot of time, money and talent going to waste here because we can't handle a few immature kids with attitude problems.
 
troylocker said:
It's like many people in here believe a bad attitude is an incurable disease. A bad attitude can be fixed and it doesn't come out of nothing.
We need to ask why does some of our players have bad attitude and what can we do to make it better. There's a lot of time, money and talent going to waste here because we can't handle a few immature kids with attitude problems.
Click to expand...
We very obviously tried our best with Sancho though, ten Hag was obviously at the end of his tether. We even gave him 3 months off at a crucial stage of our campaign last year.
 
Amir said:
Hard to get rid of players when they've got big contrats, they look terrible on the pitch and everyone knows you desperately want them out.

That's why I'm saying our problem is far bigger than getting rid of players on time. If we get the rest right, then this will also be easier. If we don't, then we'll continue to have the same issue with tons of players we want to sell and not enough suckers who will take them.
Click to expand...
Yea, absolutely fair. Just doesn't feel like there is any appetite in the club to put the correct processes and systems in place in the recruitment department to get the best outcomes. No matter who the manager is.
 
troylocker said:
Obviously this stubborn, dictatorshiplike style of managing isn't working at Man United. To turn it around he needs to change up both his tactics and approach to the squad.
Click to expand...
The only way it works is when you're winning. When you're not...
 
gaffs said:
You had a player that was at least available, all be it not performing.

You had a sellable asset. Now, he will be near impossible to shift.
Click to expand...
We'll have to give him up on loan to Dortmund or something, probably paying half of his wage in the process. Totally awful situation.
 
gaffs said:
You had a player that was at least available, all be it not performing.

You had a sellable asset. Now, he will be near impossible to shift.
Click to expand...
I think you need to reread the manager's comments, you can blame ETH for many things, not this one.
 
gaffs said:
You had a player that was at least available, all be it not performing.

You had a sellable asset. Now, he will be near impossible to shift.
Click to expand...
He wasn't sellable in the summer. We were open for offers and none came in.

He's available now too, he's just made his bed and he will lie in it. Would be stupid to let the squad know that subpar and ill disciplined players can still play.
 
VP89 said:
What should have been handled differently? He inherited a player known for poor professionalism since before he joined the club, and this was even observed by the National coach too.

He put an arm round his shoulder, he gave game time, he even gave him time away to work on his own game and psychological issues.

Then he answered bluntly that he had a lack of effort after all of this failed.
Click to expand...
Who's version of the story is this?
Do you really think that Sancho's time at Man United has been managed well? That nothing could have been done differently to get a better outcome?
 
VP89 said:
He wasn't sellable in the summer. We were open for offers and none came in.

He's available now too, he's just made his bed and he will lie in it. Would be stupid to let the squad know that subpar and ill disciplined players can still play.
Click to expand...

So what now? Let him rot in the reserves?
Loan him out and we pay his wages still, until his contract is in 3 years?

We would have been better off selling him come January, even for a tiny transfer fee, just to get the wages off the books. That would have created a ton of FFP space for the club.

But now this row has been made public, Sancho is seen as even more toxic than he was before.
 
the_cliff said:
I think you need to reread the manager's comments, you can blame ETH for many things, not this one.
Click to expand...

I dont think ETH planned this out. It dont think he said it to motivate Sancho. It was out of frustration from the Arsenal loss.

I agree, ETH should be able to say what he said. Nothing too bad in what he said, but he must know better than anyone that Sancho is a fragile man child that may not respond well to a perceived public slight.

He and the club not have another issue to deal with. A bit of a self own that will cost the club millions to fix.
 
gaffs said:
I dont think ETH planned this out. It dont think he said it to motivate Sancho. It was out of frustration from the Arsenal loss.

I agree, ETH should be able to say what he said. Nothing too bad in what he said, but he must know better than anyone that Sancho is a fragile man child that may not respond well to a perceived public slight.

He and the club not have another issue to deal with. A bit of a self own that will cost the club millions to fix.
Click to expand...
I understand your point. I just think ETH tried the coddling last season, it didn't seem to work, I'm sure if we had any takers during the summer he'd be gone but we didn't. He's on sky high wages through no fault of anyone other than the people who decided to offer him that.

And as for your last point. We'd have to spend millions to fix the problem regardless of whether he's on the bench or at home playing FIFA ultimate team.
 
troylocker said:
It isn't 1999 anymore. The competition is harder, the players are bigger stars, the egoes are bigger, the apparatus around the top clubs are much bigger, the money involved is infinitely bigger, social media, pressure etc...
Ultimate authority/disipline leadership is a thing of the past, as it should be. We've move past that. To get the most out of a squad and compete on the top level today, disipline is not enough, you need to hit the sweet spot of every player as well.
Click to expand...
Yeah Pep across the city is hitting sweet spots all the time I guess. Bunch of rubbish that is, and the main thinking that has brought us to this shit situation we are in for 10 years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.