Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Pronewbie said:
I'm surprised how quickly so many have turned on him. I don't think we should afford our managers as much as time as we did with LVG, Ole and Mourinho but this is too quick :lol:
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It's obviously too early just yet but if we start going that way then I hope we act quicker than with Ole. That was absolute torture and we left it until the team was in absolute tatters. Look at other teams and how they pick a time where it's clear where it is going but there's still time for the next manager to make something out of what they have.
 
Leftback99 said:
The signs aren't good. He had to get recruitment right to be a success but the squad is looking as weak as ever despite huge spend.
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Bull, he's still trying to get rid of the deadwood. We can't buy players because of FFP. I didn't think mount was a good signing but I get why he's done it - he's trying to play a 433 attacking like PSV are currently playing, the problem is at without a crazy good DM or the fullbacks dropping in to make a 325.

There are players available we could get like ibrahim sangaré who is playing a DM in a 433 attacking for €32 mill clause, but again we are under FFP.

I have to also mention we have incompetent senior management
 
M16Red said:
Bull, he's still trying to get rid of the deadwood. We can't buy players because of FFP. I didn't think mount was a good signing but I get why he's done it - he's trying to play a 433 attacking like PSV are currently playing, the problem is at without a crazy good DM or the fullbacks dropping in to make a 325.

There are players available we could get like ibrahim sangaré who is playing a DM in a 433 attacking for €32 mill clause, but again we are under FFP.

I have to also mention we have incompetent senior management
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He's signed one DM for big money and other midfielders. Also has signed one full back. Could have got everything you mentioned if he wanted but he obviously doesn't agree with your assessment as he prioritised other players.

You can't blame FFP when we've spent as much as we have.
 
M16Red said:
Bull, he's still trying to get rid of the deadwood. We can't buy players because of FFP. I didn't think mount was a good signing but I get why he's done it - he's trying to play a 433 attacking like PSV are currently playing, the problem is at without a crazy good DM or the fullbacks dropping in to make a 325.

There are players available we could get like ibrahim sangaré who is playing a DM in a 433 attacking for €32 mill clause, but again we are under FFP.

I have to also mention we have incompetent senior management
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We have casemiro in the team. Are you implying the casemiro is not a good dm. Or are you saying we need 2 8n the line up to make it work which then would bring up the question why prioritise Mount?
 
pocco said:
He's signed one DM for big money and other midfielders. Also has signed one full back. Could have got everything you mentioned if he wanted but he obviously doesn't agree with your assessment as he prioritised other players.

You can't blame FFP when we've spent as much as we have.
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I think he signed Casemiro because anything at the time was better than Mcfred, it was late in the window. I think that deal was oven ready.

I get the feeling your salty on Mount. Im not his biggest fan, far from it but I understand why he has another 10/8 in there, even if its not working.

flappyjay said:
We have casemiro in the team. Are you implying the casemiro is not a good dm. Or are you saying we need 2 8n the line up to make it work which then would bring up the question why prioritise Mount?
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I'm saying that unless Casemiro sorts out his attacking 3rd marking to stop counters then we are going to get run. Or the fullbacks drop in again to help Casemiro out with the marking.

Both games had one thing in common, powerful runners from midfield. But the reason this happened was different, Wolves was because of attacking 3rd pass losses and Tottenham was because of poor finishing.

EtH has said meny times that the players make the system, not the manager.
 
For me personally I have put too high hope on this season, hence the major disappointment.

I would have thought that after 1 season and 400M spent, the team should be able to play much better football albeit not challenging for PL because Man City is in different class. The start of the season was a disaster. Our football has regressed rather than progress.

Maybe we need to set lower expectations and have more patient to give ETH more time. Hopefully he will have "Arteta effects" in his 3rd season.
 
This season is going to be a mess. We miss out on UCL most likely. Season similar to Tottenham/Liverpool last season.

We don't have a fit striker at the club. Midfield is a mess that won't be fixed at least until next summer, with another injury prone acquisition(Mount). Our best fullback(Shaw) is injured for months.

Maguire still at the club, potential toxic presence in the locker room because of the situation where everyone knows he's not good enough to play for United, manager doesn't want him. He had a pretty decent offer and refused to leave. Don't know how's that going to be resolved. Similar with Henderson, but i guess he leaves somehow in the end.

Sale of a club turned into a circus limbo, nothing unexpected with Glazers, i suppose. Only saving grace this season would be satisfying conclusion to that farce of a sale - preferably Sheikh Jassim's full sale, but Jimmy Brexit would also do, I guess, as a lesser evil compared to that grotesque, pathologically greedy American family.

Can see a possibility of ETH getting sacked by the end of the season, especially if we get a new ownership. But that is still unlikely I feel, even though results will be disappointing(at least compared to last season).
He will likely receive a last chance next season to prove/save himself, regardless of ownership.
 
The Mitcher said:
Ignoring the context around those games. The fact he's wasted 400 million pounds in transfers, his refusal to rotate last season, the stubborness to stick to bad tactical choices like Weghorst at 10 until finally relenting, the terrible preparation this pre-season and the piss poor system he's implemented that has made all but the most hipster of football hipsters scratch thir heads. But no, it's just kneejerking apparently. The signs of cracks appearing happened after the league cup win, but you fanboys are wilfully blind to it all.
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How has he wasted 400 million?

Casemiro - been a good signing, arguably our best player last season
Martinez - fan favourite and been a very good CB
Eriksen - Free signing and played very well before the injury
Malacia - good deputy for Shaw, young and still has plenty of room for development
Antony - overwhelming price tag and still has a lot to do.
Onana - 2 games into his career
Mount - 2 games into his career
Hojlund - 0 games into his career

All his signings this season have played 2 games max, so how the feck do you know if they money is wasted on them? All of his signings last year bar Antony have been good and contributed to our good season.

So at a push he's wasted 80 million so far.
 
ErikElevenHag said:
How has he wasted 400 million?

Casemiro - been a good signing, arguably our best player last season
Martinez - fan favourite and been a very good CB
Eriksen - Free signing and played very well before the injury
Malacia - good deputy for Shaw, young and still has plenty of room for development
Antony - overwhelming price tag and still has a lot to do.
Onana - 2 games into his career
Mount - 2 games into his career
Hojlund - 0 games into his career

All his signings this season have played 2 games max, so how the feck do you know if they money is wasted on them? All of his signings last year bar Antony have been good and contributed to our good season.

So at a push he's wasted 80 million so far.
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First season signing bar Antony have all proved hits, my issue this season is after watching us last season I would suggest our biggest weaknesses were a top level striker, cover for Casemiro and an 8 who has a defensive side to his game and we didn't get any of those which is why for me this year the signings have very much underwhelmed and when coupled with our inability to shift players, it's a concern but I don't place this solely on ETH and will have to wait to hopefully be proven wrong.
 
Less bothered about the results and more the performance. A manager can get unlucky with injuries or best players being out of form however the overall system and shape should still look competent

We seem to have regressed back to the Ole and Ragnik era of no midfield. He simply hasn't imposed a system successfully, the effort is poor the pressing is poor, passing poor.

I do believe in his quality as a manager but anyone with sense must be having doubts whether he'll successfully recreate his ideals here.
 
Partridge said:
One of the things that really pissed me off was the lack of movement by anybody in the second half vs wolves. Players walking to meet the ball, quick pass to the side, no players ahead making runs, or any sort of movement to receive the ball. pathetic.
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They looked gassed. Lack of movement can be explained by that but at the same time, it was the first game of the season
 
DRJosh said:
Will the tide of public opinion shift if we end up thrashing Forest by 3 or 4 goals?

Or are Forest relegation fodder for some anyway?

I think ETH is the right man for us and if we get new owners in who are openly receptive not just to ETH but to the need for an organisational restructure (from the medical team to the scouting department), we might get somewhere.
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You realize United are expected to win games, right? We should win against Forest.
 
M16Red said:
I think he signed Casemiro because anything at the time was better than Mcfred, it was late in the window. I think that deal was oven ready.

I get the feeling your salty on Mount. Im not his biggest fan, far from it but I understand why he has another 10/8 in there, even if its not working.



I'm saying that unless Casemiro sorts out his attacking 3rd marking to stop counters then we are going to get run. Or the fullbacks drop in again to help Casemiro out with the marking.

Both games had one thing in common, powerful runners from midfield. But the reason this happened was different, Wolves was because of attacking 3rd pass losses and Tottenham was because of poor finishing.

EtH has said meny times that the players make the system, not the manager.
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Whichever way you paint it, he signed a DM in Casemiro and paid good money. Most people lauded the signing, he was/ is one of the best around. I get people saying we still need this or that type of player, but it's a shallow argument when it comes to midfielders when he's signed Casemiro, Mount, Eriksen plus had Sabitzer on loan. If DM and full backs are so important to the system then the money was there to get that right.
 
The Mitcher said:
Ignoring the context around those games. The fact he's wasted 400 million pounds in transfers, his refusal to rotate last season, the stubborness to stick to bad tactical choices like Weghorst at 10 until finally relenting, the terrible preparation this pre-season and the piss poor system he's implemented that has made all but the most hipster of football hipsters scratch thir heads. But no, it's just kneejerking apparently. The signs of cracks appearing happened after the league cup win, but you fanboys are wilfully blind to it all.
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It's a fact? I beg to differ.
 
pocco said:
Whichever way you paint it, he signed a DM in Casemiro and paid good money. Most people lauded the signing, he was/ is one of the best around. I get people saying we still need this or that type of player, but it's a shallow argument when it comes to midfielders when he's signed Casemiro, Mount, Eriksen plus had Sabitzer on loan. If DM and full backs are so important to the system then the money was there to get that right.
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Because I think he can only get what's available or on the market, Eriksen was a free and Sabitzer was a loan - that was over playing Fred and Mctominay. Also that was last season that is done, gone now. Really i think he was going to blood Mainoo, but when he got injured that blocked the McTominay transfer.

See how I use I think, meaning at this is an opinion.

"he obviously doesn't agree with your assessment" do you know him?
 
The media is going to run and run with this narrative now, so for everyone's sake just ignore it!

Be a fan and support the manager/players.
 
RuudTom83 said:
The media is going to run and run with this narrative now, so for everyone's sake just ignore it!

Be a fan and support the manager/players.
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As long as they give cause for support. Blind being behind them will be pointless. More than the result vs Forrest, there needs to be a proper performance, even if it ends up a 1-0 win. Give the fans something to appreciate
 
The major problem with fullbacks inverting is that it leaves the flanks exposed. If you look at Spurs' first goal you will be bewildered to note that it was Garnacho who had the the responsibility of covering their right winger and he was easily beat resulting in a dangerous run to the bye line. I noticed this too against West Ham where Sancho was up against Bowen, so it's always our weakest defensive player against their most dangerous forward.
 
Seriously undercooked for the start of the season, now injuries to Mount and Shaw. I thought this guy was obsessive in his preparation?
 
I read that we have some more muscle injuries. Again, too me the weak performances and these kind of injuries smell like overtraining
 
kouroux said:
As long as they give cause for support. Blind being behind them will be pointless. More than the result vs Forrest, there needs to be a proper performance, even if it ends up a 1-0 win. Give the fans something to appreciate
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So your support is dependant on the last 90 mins play? Must be exhausting.

Give yourself 10 games.

Enjoy the ups and downs.
 
Antony has been shite lets be honest
I don’t see how he’ll kick on to be even an above average winger in the PL. He’s missing core attributes, which can’t be coached at his age. You either have it or you don’t.

Perplexing why Ten Hag bought him. Biggest blunder so far. Rest of the signings have been alright.
 
I read that we have some more muscle injuries. Again, too me the weak performances and these kind of injuries smell like overtraining
 
Antony is the only obvious permenant signing we can justifiably question. But even then, had we moved better last summer, we would probably have got him for nearer 60m and if wouldn't be quite so bad.

Jury out on this summer, but every other signing has been very good.
 
It's only his second season and the PL is a tough league so I'd like to think that from what I've seen of his methods last season, we will have a good season. But the problem he has, and the problem some of his predecessors had, is the appalling ownership structure which unless got rid of is going to hamper him along the way.

Some of the players also need to take individual responsibility of their performances. For too long I've noticed half-hearted effort, moaning on the pitch and total lack pf cohesiveness. Its very easy to blame the manager and his tactics but the players are equally if not more at fault also.
 
el3mel said:
When are you going to realize this isn't a stat ? These aren't even the first 40 games in Ole's PL record as they axed his record pre United, otherwise he would have been below Arteta with 52 points.

This is BBC comparing Ten Hag's record with the top 3 managers in the league and the United manager he succeeded. That's about it. They axed everything else for whatever reason.

Hence why it's bullshit. You can't build anything based on this because it's randomly chosen set of managers. Who knows what else they missed.
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I give up, it's not my fault you can't understand simple English.
 
The Mitcher said:
Ignoring the context around those games. The fact In my opinion he's wasted 400 million pounds in transfers, his refusal to rotate last season, the stubborness to stick to bad tactical choices like Weghorst at 10 until finally relenting, the terrible preparation this pre-season and the piss poor system he's implemented that has made all but the most hipster of football hipsters scratch thir heads. But no, it's just kneejerking apparently. The signs of cracks appearing happened after the league cup win, but you fanboys are wilfully blind to it all.
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Corrected it for you
 
The Mitcher said:
Ignoring the context around those games. The fact he's wasted 400 million pounds in transfers, his refusal to rotate last season, the stubborness to stick to bad tactical choices like Weghorst at 10 until finally relenting, the terrible preparation this pre-season and the piss poor system he's implemented that has made all but the most hipster of football hipsters scratch thir heads. But no, it's just kneejerking apparently. The signs of cracks appearing happened after the league cup win, but you fanboys are wilfully blind to it all.
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How has he wasted 400 million pounds in transfers? Martinez, Casemiro are wastes? Onana, Mount and Rasmus are wastes bearing in mind they have only played 2 competitive matches and Rasmus hasn't even kicked a ball? What is a waste of 400 million? When he joined general consensus was he probably wouldn't challenge for the league until his 3rd season when he's had time to get all his players in and the "deadwood out". Was last season where he finished 3rd, won a cup and lost in a final a waste of a season? Is this season now a wasted season because we've only won 1 lost 1? Should we call the league and tell them we forfeit the season because based on 2 games we can't possibly have a good season (despite the fact that last season started off worse and the performances were worst in the first 2 games). Is 200 million in one window to go from 6th to 3rd and a trophy a poor investment? bearing in mind the majority of people and pundits said we would need a good 3-4 of those windows to build a team to compete with city.

The general consensus when he joined was we would finish 5th maybe sneak into 4th. Yet despite, according to you, his stubbornness to stick to bad tactical choices he outperformed that. I would imagine if he was as stubborn and "bad" as you claim it would show in the team finishing below 5th...yet lo and behold we finished 3rd in the end with a trophy to boot and at times being praised for the way we were playing (convenient how a lot of people tend to forget that period were ten hag ball was getting praised).

This pre-season was a terrible preparation? Was it great preparation last season when we beat everyone only to then lose the first 2 games? Is it a catastrophe that a second string team of unfit players and youth teamers lost to Wrexham? A catastrophe that a primarily 2nd string team lost to Dortmund? That our first team lost to Madrid?

So yes, moaning and catastrophizing to the extent that you are doing after literally 2 games into the season is knee jerking.
 
He's getting a lot of shit from the media, but that is not surprising really.

The thing is the whole Redcafe board was scratching it's head seeing the setup he was apparently going for. Mount transfer raised a lot of eyebrows, not because of the player quality, but rather the role he plays naturally.

In that situation this either works and he's called a genius, or it fails and a lot of people are like "see? I told you this is not going work". In the latter scenario manager doesn't look very smart and it's just easy to jump on him. Especially if you're a pundit and you have a bigger chance to be proven right if you say "this is not going to work very well".

Players form is part of the problem, but the truth is we've never been so open even with Eriksen playing in midfield. So yes, big part of it IS down to manager.
 
ErikElevenHag said:
How has he wasted 400 million?

Casemiro - been a good signing, arguably our best player last season
Martinez - fan favourite and been a very good CB
Eriksen - Free signing and played very well before the injury
Malacia - good deputy for Shaw, young and still has plenty of room for development
Antony - overwhelming price tag and still has a lot to do.
Onana - 2 games into his career
Mount - 2 games into his career
Hojlund - 0 games into his career

All his signings this season have played 2 games max, so how the feck do you know if they money is wasted on them? All of his signings last year bar Antony have been good and contributed to our good season.

So at a push he's wasted 80 million so far.
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This is a positive spin on things. Spending on £80m on such a limited player as Antony shouldn't be written off so easily, especially as it raises serious questions about eths judgement when he worked with him so closely before .

It is early days for mount and casemiro as a midfield partnership but I do fear casemiro is Declining, and mount simply isn't suited to playing as an 8. So we may well end up continuing to have a poor midfield

It's clear ETH shouldn't have so much control over transfers given his knowledge of the market appears limited, and his record so far is questionable
 
JuriM said:


The statistics which many negative people don't want to see.
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All well and good but this was the Guardiola which struggled and scraped 4th place in his first season, not the one we see currently.
I wonder what the stat would be the last 40 games.
 
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