Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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podurban2 said:
There are a number of issues that he needs to solve

- Rashford’s form
- Dealing with our 80m pound RW
- Getting Hojlund firing asap
- Bring balance to our midfield

Sure it’s only two games, but the signs are as obvious as they are worrying. We can’t continue as we have for weeks on or our confidence will be shot. Luckily Forest at home presents a great opportunity to begin solving our problems
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Biggest issue is in both boxes. Lapses in concentration/error ridden which results in conceding soft goals and in the opposition box creating good goal scoring chances but not clinical.

Thats a big problem regardless if its against Nottingham forest or top ten team such as Spurs.
 
podurban2 said:
There are a number of issues that he needs to solve

- Rashford’s form
- Dealing with our 80m pound RW
- Getting Hojlund firing asap
- Bring balance to our midfield

Sure it’s only two games, but the signs are as obvious as they are worrying. We can’t continue as we have for weeks on or our confidence will be shot. Luckily Forest at home presents a great opportunity to begin solving our problems
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Which one?! :( . I don't think Antony has been horrifically bad but i'd rather see Sancho given a go if he doesn't start producing better figures in goals and assists.

One of the worrying things for me, aside from the midfield balance, is how easy it is to get in behind our full backs. Both AWB and Shaw have had some good moments but both have switched off at key points in the past two games. Doesn't help that our wingers aren't playing well or supporting them brilliantly either.
 
ETH has a few decisions to make. With Onana's solid passing range, more will be expected from our wingers and forwards and they may be found out if they don't capitalise on those opportunities.
 
Midfield. I think his immediate goals are probably to address the compactness and teamwork. That is all over the shop at the moment. Mount and Fernandes don't seem to know what they are doing. Whether that is a personnel decision or a tactical decision I don't know, but he needs to get that sorted and quick because that loses you games when teams run directly at your back 4 with no protection. No defenders can consistently play 1 v 1 like that with zero cover and not be vulnerable, there's a reason attackers are more skilled and talented footballers than defenders - even the most attacking teams need that work-rate, athleticism and positioning to cover.

Striker. Then he must be absolutely praying to whoever is listening that Hojlund is nearing an appearance because so much is riding on that. We can debate whether it should be, but fact is, it is. Rashford cannot play this role well consistently, which is massively detrimental because not only do we not have a working CF, we lose his quality from the left. So that's destroying the potential of the attack.

Wing play. He needs to work out what is going on from that right hand side because Antony has put in some shocking games to start the season. So has Garnacho, but eventually I think Garnacho will settle into a more realistic role for his current level once Hojlund comes in. I don't know what the solution is on the right, I'll be honest. Probably to give Antony a bit longer but he needs kicking up the arse because the decision making and outright ability he is showing is appalling.
 
GregM40 said:
The worrying thing for me is they don’t look fit, seemed evident in second half vs spurs anyway.
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Whatever the case it was a very poor performance. For their first goal there was acres of space on our left flank, and I mean ACRES. Martinez initially comes jogging across to close down the space then sprints at the last possible sec to get close to the Tottenham player for a tackle. By that time the Tottenham player is already within a few feet of our goal.

The moment that ball went out wide, you could see a goal coming. Every single time teams do that against us our defenders take 2 days to close down the space. Its so damn frustrating to watch.
 
Might be a minority opinion, but the rumors that he was on board with, and even advocated for, Greenwood's return despite the club having no strong evidence to prove his innocence makes me very uneasy.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Might be a minority opinion, but the rumors that he was on board with, and even advocated for, Greenwood's return despite the club having no strong evidence to prove his innocence makes me very uneasy.
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I don't think it's worth looking into much as the manager would only be interested in what the player could do for football and that's it. His job is what helps the team from a football perspective. Nothing else. There are other people at the club who decide if the off field issues are too big to enable him to play. If the club told ten hag he was fine to play, then Ten Hag would plan for him.

If you have a CEO at a company say that an employee was falsely accused, a random manager within the company doesn't get to accuse or refuse to work with him because they don't like him personally. That's all there is to it here.
 
Another concern is that he will again play the same players down to the ground week in week out. We have PL, CL, FA and Carabao Cup to play. I think for the first 2 games we played exactly the same team.

It's unacceptable that after 1 year we still don't have a style of play and the players looks not capable to play high intensity football for 2 halves of football because lack of fitness.
 
Judas said:
If he was banking on Greenwood coming back, it’s another hammer blow for him, especially with so many eggs now in the Antony basket, which quite simply can’t make anyone feel confident.
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Yeah he was banking on that because knows we can't afford to sign a replacement unfortunately
 
podurban2 said:
There are a number of issues that he needs to solve

- Rashford’s form
- Dealing with our 80m pound RW
- Getting Hojlund firing asap
- Bring balance to our midfield

Sure it’s only two games, but the signs are as obvious as they are worrying. We can’t continue as we have for weeks on or our confidence will be shot. Luckily Forest at home presents a great opportunity to begin solving our problems
Click to expand...

If match fitness is the issue which needs sorting to get the more sophisticated system working, then thankfully this will sort itself out very quickly as more games are played.
 
Marcus said:
If match fitness is the issue which needs sorting to get the more sophisticated system working, then thankfully this will sort itself out very quickly as more games are played.
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Or fatigue after 60 odds games with a small squad last year? That’s my worry after seeing Liverpool last season - it’s not an issue that corrects itself and rather leads to a sub-par season. So here’s to hoping it’s lack of fitness and not the latter.
 
MUFC OK said:
Or fatigue after 60 odds games with a small squad last year? That’s my worry after seeing Liverpool last season - it’s not an issue that corrects itself and rather leads to a sub-par season. So here’s to hoping it’s lack of fitness and not the latter.
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I hope so too. I think EtH traded off gelling the first 11 in pre-season with letting more of the players to get games to develop match fitness. I hope this pays off. And more of the players are available for the games ahead. Especially if we go deep into the cup competitions again.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Might be a minority opinion, but the rumors that he was on board with, and even advocated for, Greenwood's return despite the club having no strong evidence to prove his innocence makes me very uneasy.
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No need to be uneasy about that now. You can move onto the next thing.
 
Can he at least tell the players to stop hitting the ball long half of the time? 9 times out of 10 it goes straight to the keeper or back to the opposition
 
NZT-One said:
It might be one of his biggest challenges as a coach as of now... Be pragmatic and alter your approach or stick with the change and keep going until it clicks. There are reasons for both in my mind. I mean, last season, I would have gone for pragmatism, he was new and creating a secure environment and confidence was important. And I agree with many on here that the current system isn't really working right now. But should we really abondon it after two bad games? Abandon for what? If this system is what ETH has planned for, recruited for, than we should go for it in my eyes. Find a way to make the thing work instead of moving away from it, postponing the inevitable step one year again. Imagine for whatever reason, this fails again - as a coach I'd be furious failing with an approach I didn't even want to use but did so, because everything became to fickle after a few bad games.

(this is also why I am not really on board of the Amrabat train, if a DLP isn't part of his favored system, then we shouldn't bring one in but instead somebody, who can fill in for Casemiro in case of absence. We have to become really good with plan A so oppo teams adapt to it, then its time for Plan B. Plan A cant just break into pieces because of the absence of one or two players.)
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He was pragmatic and altered the approach last season, but he's trying to build a team that's more proactive and controlling of matches, and that will take time and involve mistakes. Unfortunately, if we keep kicking that can down the road, then we'll be delaying our eventual transformation into an effective, well-drilled team.

Our main issue at the moment is that some of the players don't seem to be willing to make the required sacrifices - Rashford and Garnacho in particular haven't been pulling their weight when it comes to pressing and off the ball positioning, and that's the main driver in teams being able to waltz through our midfield. On top of that, the likes of Shaw and Bruno have been trying, but have a penchant to revert to what they know when things get tough, which leads to us having half a team pressing and trying to control the ball, and the other half sitting deep to counter and trying to hit the killer ball all the time.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Might be a minority opinion, but the rumors that he was on board with, and even advocated for, Greenwood's return despite the club having no strong evidence to prove his innocence makes me very uneasy.
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I think his only thought process during the whole thing was how best to keep his job, and that would include multiple forward options instead of relying solely on Antony
 
sullydnl said:
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sullydnl said:
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Have they randomly chosen some managers? As that’s not all time. Jose, Conte, Ancelotti, Pellegrini had more (not so coincidentally all oil club managers).
Btw, ETH‘s 78 points is exactly what Fergie had in his first 40 Premier League games. Good omen hopefully.
 
Why can other managers get teams playing their way without falling apart, spurs may not finish top 4 but the identity under the new manager is there straight away without being all over the place like we end up the minute ten hag tries to play more progressive, can't use the de gea excuse any more either.
 
Irwin99 said:
Which one?! :( . I don't think Antony has been horrifically bad but i'd rather see Sancho given a go if he doesn't start producing better figures in goals and assists.

One of the worrying things for me, aside from the midfield balance, is how easy it is to get in behind our full backs. Both AWB and Shaw have had some good moments but both have switched off at key points in the past two games. Doesn't help that our wingers aren't playing well or supporting them brilliantly either.
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Yep. I get they are trying to be more inverted going forward but, we really struggle to keep the opposition wingers pinned back and they inevitably can kick the ball down the wing and breeze past them.
 
Lee565 said:
Why can other managers get teams playing their way without falling apart, spurs may not finish top 4 but the identity under the new manager is there straight away without being all over the place like we end up the minute ten hag tries to play more progressive, can't use the de gea excuse any more either.
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This bollocks again... what exactly are you looking to see mate? There has been video after video showing how Ten Hag improved our playing from the back, the pressing, the shape in the 4-1-4-1 mould, the progressing of the ball, the chance creation. We've turned Barcelona into Stoke city, them having to resort to set pieces to score against us so you can't say he's tactically incompetent.

By this logic SAF never had a playing style either while the Wenger who played pass the ball into the back of the net had clearly the superior identity. Now when you compare the trophies, that's a completely different ball game.
 
Lee565 said:
Why can other managers get teams playing their way without falling apart, spurs may not finish top 4 but the identity under the new manager is there straight away without being all over the place like we end up the minute ten hag tries to play more progressive, can't use the de gea excuse any more either.
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The usual manager need 3 years and sign X players to play their style of play. Meanwhile, all other managers who have much less budget than us play better
 
united_99 said:
Have they randomly chosen some managers? As that’s not all time. Jose, Conte, Ancelotti, Pellegrini had more (not so coincidentally all oil club managers).
Btw, ETH‘s 78 points is exactly what Fergie had in his first 40 Premier League games. Good omen hopefully.
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Was wondering that. Everything is fecked. No such thing as honest reporting anymore
 
Yakuza_devils said:
The usual manager need 3 years and sign X players to play their style of play. Meanwhile, all other managers who have much less budget than us play better
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On the other hand our big money signings need more than a year to settle. "No one has patience anymore" of you question that statement.
 
Rapsel said:
Well this explains why Ten Hag insists on the style of play. If the players could just get a little more clinical....
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But both Spurs and Wolves also had their fair share of chances. If everyone was clinical in both encounters it could have been 4-3 scoreline types of games.
 
flappyjay said:
But both Spurs and Wolves also had their fair share of chances. If everyone was clinical in both encounters it could have been 4-3 scoreline types of games.
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Haven't we created the 3rd most clear cut chances in the league? So, no, it wouldn't be 4-3 to the opposing teams.
 
Mike Smalling said:
That's definitely part of the story of the first two games - we missed some huge chances, and we were also cheated out of at least one penalty against Spurs, in my opinion.

But it can't overshadow the fact that we look uncoordinated, weak, and lacking in intensity.
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yes ofcourse we also looked unorganized and unbalanced. Although the first 30 minutes against Spurs were pretty good. But we look overtrained or so, second half we missed the intensity, organization and will to run.
 
sullydnl said:
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Good stuff!

Pep had a much easier job as well. His midfield and attack was already more or less settled. At least good enough to win the league. He mainly needed to fix the defence. The PL was also of lower quality during those years. Leicester won the league and Pochettino was considered a genius. Weird times!
 
How are we going to fix our second half slumps? Players not tracking back, not doing their jobs.

I saw a very good first half where we outplayed and outwitted Spurs, then a second half where we stopped doing our tasks and empowered Spurs. Players not running back to defend but letting their man go. Awful stuff.

Pressing high only works if everyone does their duties. I don’t think our tactics are to blame, it is character and execution.
 
united_99 said:
Have they randomly chosen some managers? As that’s not all time. Jose, Conte, Ancelotti, Pellegrini had more (not so coincidentally all oil club managers).
Btw, ETH‘s 78 points is exactly what Fergie had in his first 40 Premier League games. Good omen hopefully.
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Exactly, it's bullshit. Mourinho got 95 points in is first season with Chelsea.
 
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