I think Diallo will take the spot long term
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Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I think Diallo will take the spot long term
Nah, the worst was under Woodward. Our key transfers were dictated by brand and social media following, not the manager or his preferred style. Contract renewals sought to preserve asset value.
If anything, where ETH has made giant strides is in doing away with all that nonsense. I know other personnel changed but look at how Rangnick fared with Maguire/Cristiano and how ETH did. There's no way we could have previously released De Gea and piss all that money up a wall on a goalie either. I'm describing what previous managers would have been told there.
He also has more hits than most other managers we've had with Licha, Casemiro, Onana and holding on to Garnacho (could have easily missed out on renewal). We pay top dollar? Yeah, I don't care really so long as we make the right ones and progress.
I'm not that bothered with the Antony and Mount fees. What I find unsettling is the persistence with Antony over other options and I now brace myself for a similar persistence with a midfield triangle that patently doesn't work and I don't think will ever work. The issue there is 100% the manager job.
I read people saying he shouldn't be responsible for transfers, others not wanting him to be accountable for fees, the same people would also cry bloody murder if we chose not to sign the players ETH wants because they got pricey...
They get pricey because he is clearly rather single-minded and inflexible about his targets, much like he seems to be single-minded and inflexible about persisting with his big signings and making then work.
Perseverance is a good trait in good measure, but a major weakness when it becomes excessive and pig-headed. Fine margins.
This is quite interesting to look at and you can definitely paint a picture of an impatient and overly direct team. It's not really what I meant as you can't really see how long the ball spends in each zone as far as I can tell (and that is how they will calculate the total % at the end of a game).
We are very good at a few things, progressive passes (3rd), touches in attacking third (3rd) and touches in opposition penalty box (5th) but then in terms of total touches we really drop down into the midtable. It will be good to track this through the season as it's too early to really see that much.
I will say looking at this a bit more in depth, we have been unlucky - we are 2nd for xAG, 4th for xA, 2nd for key passes, 2nd for passes into the penalty area, 5th for xG (United, Wolves and Everton are the joint worst finishers so far this season). Basically it is reconfirming what we all know, we need a striker.
The first two games last season looked far, far worse and we had what was considered our best 11 on the pitch for both. I honestly think Malacia is a big miss right now with Shaw looking kind of lost, and Hojlund/Martial coming in and shifting Rashford to the left (and Garnacho off until the 61st minute or later) will make a big difference. Even if that ends up not working so well, EtH showed last year he can figure out a plan B.
Very sorry for the lack of care haha.
Are you happy with ETH? What he has or hasn’t been able to do with these players?
I am happy in general, there is slight worry in first two games but it is too early to go bonkers over it. I still believe we will be better and better as the season goes and expecting few more bodies in before the transfer window closes.
Exactly.
Just put Square pegs in Square holes & make do around them. Currently we’re stifling our best players & still fitting other square pegs into round holes.
But our play is all over the place, we have no defined way of playing that I can see except Bruno’s hit and miss passes. We seriously need to coach most of our players in the basics which I had hoped ETH and McClaren would have done by now.
Don't worry too much, I just saw some 20 year old Dutch kid who hasn't played a minute outside of the Eredivisie is on the verge of signing for us. Surely he's going to be a great replacement...
The problem ETH has, its part of it is his fault, is the squad is still shit.
If he was banking on Greenwood coming back, it’s another hammer blow for him, especially with so many eggs now in the Antony basket, which quite simply can’t make anyone feel confident.
Think with MG going Pellistri now stays…can’t have Antony taking that spot all to himself
What majorly affects our team is we don't play a 90 minutes game. We are always in a rush. Wanting to win the game instantly. We've won UCL as a club with the last 2 corners in a game.
Thus even if we get a striker, without controlling a football game for long period we will always struggle. What if we signed Kane then after 1 month he gets an injury like Timber, would our season collapse? Because he was our savior? We lack a genuine plan on how to handle games. This squarely lies on the managers feet. The last away win in top 9 club was during OLE reign. That should tell you something is not working.
Kane alone / striker alone won't solve our issues.
ETH needs first to change our tactics and setup. Bin any player who can't stay with a ball for more than 5 seconds when pressed.
We want players like Onana and Martinez in the whole team. Players who can stay with the ball at feet under immense pressure, pick up their heads and find a team mate.
This picture of treating the ball as a hot potato is the main challenge.
A 50+ games season should be treated with plan and strategy not just pressing and releasing the ball instantly, because eventually you will find better players/managers than you meaning you need adequate plan and poise to deliver. ----- This is reinforced by fact that when we, United, face a (lower) team well drilled we struggle alot even with our so called big players.
Is there any evidence to show that ETH learns from his mistakes?
Persisting with Antony. Isolating Casemiro. Rashford centrally. 8 losses and 1 draw against the top 9 away from home is embarrassing.
Persisting with Antony. Isolating Casemiro. Rashford centrally. 8 losses and 1 draw against the top 9 away from home is embarrassing.
So he was obviously planning his squad with Greenwood returning. Now he won't be replaced. What great planning by the clowns in charge.
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We already had one small slow winger on our books and then he spent 85m on another one. Then spent 60m on a small quite slow CAM who we didn't need. All the positive momentum from last season is lost. Hopefully a no 9 will restore some balance in attack. We were also poor during preseason.
I don’t really know if I trust his eye for talent, and I’m a bit baffled how much control and say we’re once again giving to the manager, seemingly. I back him tactically, even if we’re not seeing nearly enough of what he talks about on the pitch. Still think he’s the man for us, but that doesn’t mean I don’t question some of his decisions.
He's been turned into a yes man, imo and the Glazers love those.
Was the useless USA tour his idea ? My guess no , traveling miles and miles taking 2 sides playing 1 day then next, ... how was that supposed to benefit the squad?
I hope he's not turned because if he has its sack time coming up .. seen it before but this guy has been given some cash so let's see.. how he goes from after the transfer window closes and who's in or out..
Was the useless USA tour his idea ? My guess no , traveling miles and miles taking 2 sides playing 1 day then next, ... how was that supposed to benefit the squad?
I hope he's not turned because if he has its sack time coming up .. seen it before but this guy has been given some cash so let's see.. how he goes from after the transfer window closes and who's in or out..
I think the biggest problem with our team is we carry a lot of players who are used to losing matches over the years. I am not able to articulate it better, but players like Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Maguire, Scott Tominay, Degea etc., are used to losing games and lack the winners mentality and we are not replacing them en-masse. The club's winning culture has been replaced by accepting mediocrity and this is spreading like cancer in the players mentality. And this is affecting the incoming players as well.
The skill is definitely there, we could see it in the first half. but these players can't take a dip. They don't have a Roy Keane in the team. Martinez is the only one who looks mentally strong, even Bruno comes across as a whiner. It looks broken at the moment.
The skill is definitely there, we could see it in the first half. but these players can't take a dip. They don't have a Roy Keane in the team. Martinez is the only one who looks mentally strong, even Bruno comes across as a whiner. It looks broken at the moment.
I don't think any manager gets to dictate where a pre season tour takes place. Even the biggest names.
Pure speculation but I worry he's become too soft with the players if anything because the same guys are making the same basic mistakes over and over. As if they refuse to change.
I can't see Rashford and Garnacho being so loose with the ball under Guardiola. I can't see Shaw being so flat footed on the pitch under Klopp.
They simply wouldn't allow it.
I agree broadly with this. I've said in other threads but the tragic thing about United post SAF is ETH is really the first manager who we should have hired. By that I don't mean him specifically but a manager currently managing a CL club. That should have been the bare minimum for United and yet the powers that be have dragged this fanbase through an absolute scattergun managerial roller coater which lumbered the club with such a random ill fitting group of players because each subsequent manager would change direction: Moyes, LVG, Mou, Ole, Ragnick, ETH is about as wild a group personality wise and tactically as you could look for. It's only now there seems to be any semblance of a plan and a 'type' of player coming in and one of ETH's many challenges is how to coach older players like Rashford or Bruno, who seem unable to not rush and be rash, how to essentially calm the feck down.
I was critical of Mount as an 8 from the offset but what I will say is there is a clear confidence in ETH to actually coach that into the player, I do like that, and he does seem to have very clear ideas on what he thinks we can do. Really that is all we can ask from a manager - you hire them (and that is bearing in mind the bare minimum requirement above) because they play a brand of football you like, you back them for a window and wait to see improvement, then you rinse repeat until one of you decides they want something else. Currently we're in season 2 after a broadly successful season 1. We should be somewhat optimistic despite the poor form in my opinion of ETH finding some solutions to the issues we have.
Agree he's looking a bit soft.
Way to miss the point.
I'm saying that calling us 'transitional' is a blanket statement. Liverpool are transitional, but United under Ole were transitional. And we look more like the latter. Its disingenuous to point to great transitional teams and say that's what we could be, when that doesn't look the case or even what he's looking for.
And the 'dominating the ball' thing is something Klopp has tried to add, making them less 'transitional' and more controlled.
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he can turn it around again this season, purely because he did it last season after 2 woeful opening day performances. A big part of me however doesn't believe he can. I genuinely hope that isnt true, I have no idea where we go as a club if ETH doesn't work out.
It will be interesting to see if he sticks to his guns and picks the same side he has been picking, I hope he doesn't, there is no harm in changing things up if they aren't working out, I also hope he isn't stubborn about doing this. United definitely need another few players brought in, world class of course but I can't see that happening now.
Apparently Only Brighton (9) and Newcastle (8) have created more big chances than Man United this season, yes lack of clinical edge remains a big issue.
Strange how the new Spurs manager gets a 2-0 win against a team that's had maybe 1 or 2 changes from the squad that's been together for a full season (last season).
Here's been working at it for over a year. We don't start from scratch every time a new season begins
If that is true then he severely underestimated the situation, as did the board. It's really not rocket science to understand why he couldn't have been reintegrated.
If we hadn't been dicking about haggling over Hojland (ending up paying what they wanted anyway) theres a good chance we would have got him before his preseason injury.
As we have said countless times in the caf, saving 3-4m by an extended transfer saga during the summer is a false economy. Having Hojland fit and available on the first Monday of training in July would have had a transformative effect on our preseason and start of the campaign.
As we have said countless times in the caf, saving 3-4m by an extended transfer saga during the summer is a false economy. Having Hojland fit and available on the first Monday of training in July would have had a transformative effect on our preseason and start of the campaign.
I never said that. What I said is he should focus more on what we do when we have the ball instead of worrying about what we do when we don't have the ball. Sorting his midfield out would be a good start. Get some real midfielders who can actually pass a football realiably and we won't have to worry so much about pressing and winning the ball back if we don't fecking lose it all the time.
Ooh! Not heard this. Were there any other leaked reports or just on Antony?
You honestly don't need a galactico type squad to compete. You just need the right type of players to implement your playing style.
SAF never had a squad of superstars and they performed as a whole quite brilliantly.
Strange how people still want to evaluate managers from one game.
Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Berbatov, Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra
Everyone of them is like world class what are you smoking?
It might be one of his biggest challenges as a coach as of now... Be pragmatic and alter your approach or stick with the change and keep going until it clicks. There are reasons for both in my mind. I mean, last season, I would have gone for pragmatism, he was new and creating a secure environment and confidence was important. And I agree with many on here that the current system isn't really working right now. But should we really abondon it after two bad games? Abandon for what? If this system is what ETH has planned for, recruited for, than we should go for it in my eyes. Find a way to make the thing work instead of moving away from it, postponing the inevitable step one year again. Imagine for whatever reason, this fails again - as a coach I'd be furious failing with an approach I didn't even want to use but did so, because everything became to fickle after a few bad games.
(this is also why I am not really on board of the Amrabat train, if a DLP isn't part of his favored system, then we shouldn't bring one in but instead somebody, who can fill in for Casemiro in case of absence. We have to become really good with plan A so oppo teams adapt to it, then its time for Plan B. Plan A cant just break into pieces because of the absence of one or two players.)
(this is also why I am not really on board of the Amrabat train, if a DLP isn't part of his favored system, then we shouldn't bring one in but instead somebody, who can fill in for Casemiro in case of absence. We have to become really good with plan A so oppo teams adapt to it, then its time for Plan B. Plan A cant just break into pieces because of the absence of one or two players.)
He steadied the ship after a shocking start last year, let's hope he can do it again.
There are a number of issues that he needs to solve
- Rashford’s form
- Dealing with our 80m pound RW
- Getting Hojlund firing asap
- Bring balance to our midfield
Sure it’s only two games, but the signs are as obvious as they are worrying. We can’t continue as we have for weeks on or our confidence will be shot. Luckily Forest at home presents a great opportunity to begin solving our problems
- Rashford’s form
- Dealing with our 80m pound RW
- Getting Hojlund firing asap
- Bring balance to our midfield
Sure it’s only two games, but the signs are as obvious as they are worrying. We can’t continue as we have for weeks on or our confidence will be shot. Luckily Forest at home presents a great opportunity to begin solving our problems
John O Shea, Wes Brown, Ji Sung ParkRooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Berbatov, Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra
Everyone of them is like world class what are you smoking?
I was referring to these types of players and they did their part alongside the likes of Rooney, Berbatov etc.
But Ten Hag has been with the club for a full year. We're more than within our rights to criticize him and the team after a piss poor performance against a Spurs team with a new manager that looked more organized than our squad that's been together for a whole season.
If he had just joined up in the pre season then sure it makes sense to be more forgiving with the squad and how its been setup.
The worrying thing for me is they don’t look fit, seemed evident in second half vs spurs anyway.
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