''The dilemma will be seeing teams counter-pressing upon ball-loss to see if they can consistently, efficiently and effectively regain the ball in the higher areas.''
Correct.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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''The dilemma will be seeing teams counter-pressing upon ball-loss to see if they can consistently, efficiently and effectively regain the ball in the higher areas.''
Correct.
The man has my utmost trust, but we can't go on like this for any longer and he needs to make some changes to get us going because it looks like we're way off the pace, in combination with the midfield looking really messy. Especially with Arsenal coming up after Forest.
Do people still not understand there is a difference between transition and counter attack ffs.
I think we are actually agreeing here and looking for opposing views where there are none.
My original point was ETH has a problem in that his star men (Bruno and Rashford) aren't the best fits for the style he looks for.
Firstly, I don't think he wants a playmaking 10 with everything going through him as the sole source of creativity. That's what he has in Bruno, who isn't consistent, tactically disciplined or sufficiently physical either. He was playing Weghorst at #10 and shunting Bruno out wide last season, read between the lines!
Then the point moved on to the problem being even bigger because without said star men we are completely hopeless (as opposed to City sans KDB, as you point out).
Honestly I thought our trio did great in the first half against Spurs.
I see our issue more being fitness and mentality after going down in games.
Stop being a biased blind hater.
Sir Alex Ferguson:"Your job is to stand by the manager."
They did better from a transitional sense but still way too easily bypassed. It seems that if we don't win the ball high up the pitch from pressing, the opposition is free to walk through it.
This could've been Moysey's 10th season. Oh why did we not listen....
I mean in terms of keeping possession. We're hardly in control of the majority of games are we?
I guess but most teams are seeing this. Wolves had Brighton on toast when it was 1-0 on around 3 or 4 occasions. Of course Brighton ran away with it after though. West Ham just exposed a lot of Chelsea frailties yet, Liverpool had a torrid first half to Bournemouth too whilst Spurs themselves had struggling periods looking very open vs Brentford.
Only Arsenal and City look solid, and even then the former struggled against Forrest to carve out many chances.
I too wouldn't blame him for the signings. When the new DoF was being paraded it was supposed to be his role to bring some yang to the manager's ying. They blew it! No doubt because they are even less knowledgeable at recruitment. What would be the point of vetoing a transfer if they don't have any ideas of their own? You need one heck of a director to say I'm right where ETH is wrong, instead we got an even worse version of subservience than what we already had with Woodward.
He's right. Despite the reputation ETH had as a possession manager, if you compare our possession stats with our seasons under Ole there's basically no change. The only real improvement was in our defence (which was probably helped by signing an actual dm in Casemiro)
You don’t understand. Any team that doesn’t play like a Pep replica has no style of play or any patterns.
Yes, it feels like ETH can overcomplicate things doesn’t it.
LvG would do this also, though ETH is more likeable - but there’s something of a similarity there in the round pegs in square holes approach and playing key players in positions that are not their best positions.
I’m surprised this doesn’t get called out more tbh.
I agree. If they give us that 100% pen it's a different game as well. Reminded me of last season, capitalize in the first and play out the game in a more safe manner the second. The first half was very hopeful, but that collapse in the 2nd half was inexcusable. People are right to be angry, but looking at some comments on the caf you would think we're fighting relegation.
The only counter to this I would say is we don't really have advanced stats for where possession occurs, you could knock it aimlessly around the back 4 and your % of possession will be inflated versus actually retaining possession in a more offensive area and trying to progress the ball up the pitch through passing + movement versus a direct, usually longer ball. That's really the difference between a possession team and not, there will be a conscious effort to progress the ball toward the opposition goal with lower risk passes which tend to be shorter and are heavily dependent on a midfield.
United had 37 shots against Wolves/Spurs.
Not being clinical is the problem.
Not being clinical is the problem.
Let's see what happens when we have an actual striker in the side that can hold up the ball, and bring others into play. Of course things are going to look dysfunctional in possession especially in the final third, while when we're still missing that key ingredient. Also to say there's basically no change last season at our best is nonsense. Our home form speaks for itself and the performances against top opposition that came with it.
That's true.
The major flaw here is Casemiro is not a first phase build up player so how do you link the 3 defensive players with the 6 attacking players when the 1 in the middle is not capable of being a key cog in the build up phase?
Not only that the 1 in the middle surely cannot be immobile in a league like the premier league.
I don't see how we have the personnel to implement the system described in that link, then again I'm not a premier league manager so maybe its possible and ETH will surprise me. Seriously though I do not see this working
This is a myth made from people who just look at his Ajax stats and presume because most of the time had the most possession it must mean he is a possession manager. They just dominated games. It's not the same thing.
Our pressing has improved a lot, especially this season.
We clearly had huge improvements under Ten Hag last season and we are just 2 games in this season and people already crying about Ten Hag out, people need to calm down is my point.
Moyes and Ten Hag are two waaaay different managers. I mean Moyes focused mainly on the defensive part of the game at a club where we are known for "Attack Attack!"
I find these kind of posts astounding. I honestly don’t know how anyone can look at ETH’s tenure so far and come to the conclusion there is very little change in the style of football we played under Ole/Ragnick. Seriously?
The style and patterns of play became evident within just the first couple of months. Yes it’s given we still have flaws and it isn’t perfect but you can not seriously say nothing has changed from the dross we had before.
Arsenal wasn't solid at all. Johnson should have finished that chance and they still needed Saka wonder goal to take the lead. The overreaction here is embarrassing.
Says who ? A random keyboard warrior from redcafe ?
We did good. Should have scored 2 and a penalty Should have been given to us. Second half was bad but there was improvement.
If we would get the penalty that we deserved then the game would be totally different in my opinion. The players would relax a tad more and play better without "high shoulders".
Do you believe in Murthough co's judgement?
The stats are there. Find them here
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/possession/Premier-League-Stats
Even passing stats,
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/passing/Premier-League-Stats
We are not performing well in almost all metrics.
Even passing stats, our 80.6% is below Arsenal, Villa, City, Brighton, Newcastle, Fulham, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Wolves.
In all the total passing tabs, we are average number 10 in all metrics.
Only Attacking 3rd touches we are 3rd in the metrics, which is lead by Chelsea then spurs.
Everything else we are between 8-10th. Yes it's the second game of the season but even last season we averaged 5-6 the in possession all season.
That's the thing, the scouts did question the signing. The leaked scouting report predicted basically everything we're seeing with Antony now.
I don’t care what style he wants to play, until he can get them to be able to pass to each other without losing the ball every 30 secs and drills into Bruno, Rashford and Garnacho the importance of choosing team play over either ball hogging or high risk options all the time we’ll stay exactly as we are now.
You should care if you are going to emphasize on it in your post. There is a big difference.
His screen name says it all.
Exactly, dont understand why some are so keen to excuse ETH. From what we know it was ETH that wanted Antony and was so desperate that Ajx rinsed us on price. Look at the stupid pursuit of FDJ when it seemed he had no appetite for the move.
The A-XaG stat showing how many assists we should have had vs how many we have had is damning, we are in last place as we have created so much but finished so little, worries me we are still looking at midfielders/ defenders which will it would be helpful, a transition team generally doesn't have to have high possession but they need to finish their dinner and right now we can't finish a thing.
Yes, it's not working because of that for one reason, the other reason is that it's not a Premier League thing, but even outside of Prem now that so many teams play with highly inverted fullbacks which overcrowd the midfield and make the build-up phase more complex.
With Greenwood leaving, the RW spot is nailed for Antony. I worry for Ten Hag.
Seeing EtH management style, he strikes me as the type of guy gives players the rope and then sees if they are going to tie the knot or use it to climb.
He has said so meny times that he doesn't dictate the play, the players do. I think the running stats will piss him off and I won't be surprised to see us top the charts soon on these.
I really think he is strict and direct enough to get the players, playing - you could see how pissed off Rashford was.
He has said so meny times that he doesn't dictate the play, the players do. I think the running stats will piss him off and I won't be surprised to see us top the charts soon on these.
I really think he is strict and direct enough to get the players, playing - you could see how pissed off Rashford was.
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