First season he was Vidic, second he was Phil Jones.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 18
- Clean sheets
- 4
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Red cards
- 1
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
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Agree with this. He seems to panic in one v one situations as if he has to win the ball back as quick as he can and goes diving in.
To be "one of the best" you have to be consistently top class. If it was for a short period then you can call it a good patch of form. Average players can have great games, Anderson once bossed Gerrard at Anfield. As of right now, Bailly is an average injury prone defender, who has had good games you can count on one hand.
like his first 3 games for united where is was motm in all 3? come on mate, he has had far more than 2-5 good games.
I think the criteria is :
Cannot be Smalling or Jones
Has to have been injured a lot so people will think hes better than he is
If you meet that criteria, you are our best defender according to several posters here.
People seem to have forgotten that getting into and staying in a team requires working hard, performing and then if you get dropped you work hard to get your spot back. It goes hand in hand with building a cohesive structure and building a winning culture. A lot of different people seem to be prone to yelling at the top of their lungs that their preferred player must play all the time. It is a bit weird, he'll work his way back into the lineup and perform again. He's young and aggressive and has plenty to prove. There is still a fair way to go for all of our defenders to reach the level that Smalling is at, they need to develop their game around fitting in with him. I think Lindelof fits better than Bailly but that is not a slight on Bailly's individual game, it is how a squad works.
Exaggeration? His style of defending is often described as not being aggressive enough, maybe you try and read the whole discussion between me and the other poster of what I meant about "doing nothing" before coming with a shit argument. Yes I disputed the claim that he supposedly has more awareness and even better positioning than Bailly, I also gave valid example of a situation where Lindelof's supposed superior awareness cost us. And yeah he needs a babysitter, it's been obvious how Fellaini especially has been instructed to help him out. A CB that can't win his own duels is pathetic, and that's unacceptable for a team like ours. Maybe try rewatching the last two games?
And since you've "studied" some of his games please enlighten me, what are his strengths?
Don't put Mourinho in this please, he dropped him after his horror show against Brighton, and is back into the team thanks to Jones being a sick note and injuring himself again. And even at the end of the day, Mourinho makes mistakes all the time, and you can disagree with him. For all his faults Bailly is twice the CB, Lindelof is, we are just shooting ourselves in the foot by persisting with the Swede.
First game I though is Liverpool at Old Trafford last season, he was an absolute rock, and then went on and scored an own goal.
Classic Bailly really.
Think his problem is being error prone when he gets overconfident. When the game gets too easy for Bailly he gets complacent and loses his head. The Brighton game was an anomaly for me. He's rarely that diabolical from the start
Think it's only a matter of time for him to iron out these issues but you never know. When Jones was a promising 19 year old we never imagined he'd retain the same problems 10 years later
Think it's only a matter of time for him to iron out these issues but you never know. When Jones was a promising 19 year old we never imagined he'd retain the same problems 10 years later
Don't think Jose helps, he needs to stick to a partnership and back them. Surely he isn't basing his selections on single game performances? If he thinks Bailly and Lindelof are the future. Play them. They'll make mistakes have bad games etc just as vidic and Evra did. But perseverance wins out.
Classic Bailly scoring own goals. Such a funny guy.First game I though is Liverpool at Old Trafford last season, he was an absolute rock, and then went on and scored an own goal.
Classic Bailly really.
He asked for a good performance, it was actually, with an unfortunate own goal, that happen in football.
Maybe you enjoy Lindelof getting bullied around like a little bitch every other week?
It's gotten to the point where it's actually laughable to put Bailly's name next to Smalling nevermind saying Bailly is better. Bailly lacks the top two things you need from a CB - Composure and awareness. He's one of the worst CB's in the top six but hides behind spectacular tackles and a few four to five games. He instantly makes his partner look bad. The top defenders out there will be bemused playing next to him.
Not getting bullied is not the ultimate for a CB, is it?
Scoring own goals is not classic Bailly. However trying to clear the ball with a bicycle kick when he can just kick it or head it, yeah that is very much classic Bailly. He ended up slicing the clearance into his own net, when there wasn’t even any real danger.
I think if I was Mourinho I would bring a whiteboard next to the pitch for training sessions and each time he tried to bicycle kick the ball I would send him to the board to write 100 times “I will not try bicycle kicks” like he’s Bart Simpson. Maybe the penny would drop and he’d actually start using his head (literally) from then on.
I'm sorry, but it's one of the bare minimums we should have at the back. A weak CB destabilizes the whole team. I mean it's ok when a quality striker like say Diego Costa comes over and has moments against you, but with Lindelof it happens against everybody. First it was Iheanacho, then Murray, then Kane, than whoever it was from Burnley, this week it was Grey.
How can a team play neck to neck against teams when the CB can't handle the opposition attackers? Especially in a league like the PL where physical duels are the epitome of the game.
He was horrendous against Brighton, but I think people are extrapolating and getting a bit too revisionist from it. He's always been a little rash and erratic, but he's not as comically bad as made out. I'd have him lower on the rash scale than Rojo for example.
I think the issue right now is a complete lack of confidence. There's been something going on since last season when he couldn't make the team at all (apparently because he wasn't going to the world Cup).
I think the issue right now is a complete lack of confidence. There's been something going on since last season when he couldn't make the team at all (apparently because he wasn't going to the world Cup).
Bit hard to stick with a pair when our defenders seem to be available for about 3 games at a time before sustaining an Injury that puts them out for months.
When Bailly is at his best he is better than Smalling has ever been. There's little to argue there if you have ever watched either of them. His problem is not his top level, it's his erratic performances.
Not that I disagree that Smalling is a better CB, but what happened to the actual defending part? Like tackling, marking, one on one defending, heading? Composure and awareness are important, but top two things you need from a CB?
No way has Bailly ever dominated opponents like Mike did in 15/16. Mike also did it for a far longer period that year too. Until Bailly has a full season of doing well he can't be said to be better than Smalling
Thats a hyperbole if I ever saw one. Better than Mike has even been? Please..
And if Baillys problem is his erratic performances he's not so good to begin with, at least for now, not to mention being better than Smalling or not. I simply don't know why Mike gets so much stick here. To the point of making such ridiculous claims.
You're talking to one of the posters who dislike Smalling intensely, so expecting to hear rational arguments is to be expecting too much tbh.
Ah, so you did exaggerate.
Your Fellaini ‘babysitter theory’ is borderline conspiracy theory, and I’m curious as to what in the actual game confirms it to you. But what I’m most perplexed by is that you seem to think that Mourinho thinks Lindelöf is so bad in the air that he would have to base his tactics around babysitting him, instead of just starting with a player that is ‘twice the player’ and whom Lindelöf has no strengths at all in comparison to. One thing is that any manager can make mistakes, but you must think Mourinho is certifiably mad.
You didn’t answer the question: What strengths do you imagine Mourinho sees in Lindelöf for him to select him over Smalling and Jones vs Leicester and Brighton, and over Bailly vs Burnley and Watford?
I’ll answer your question regarding my opinion of his strengths: He reads the game and the players around him well, he is disciplined, he has good understanding of the tactics, he positions himself well to stay close to players and mark space at the same time, he is good at maintaing the offside line, he is a fighter, he doesn’t rush headlessly into things, he is good with the ball at his feet and strikes hard, fairly precise and sensible passes, he has a good eye for a pass. He is responsible, and seeks to organize his fellow defenders as well as himself. He normally makes less mistakes per game than other defenders. He has few glaring weaknesses.
He has weaknesses too, but this was about strengths. He is not the worlds best in any of these faculties yet, and he will make mistakes showing he is not perfect in them, so it’s no point in pointing out that he sometimes misreads a situation, makes a bad pass or positions himself wrong. I’ll maintain, though, that in all these regards I mentioned, he is at this point better than any of the other CB’s at the club.
Wether he is a better defender in total is another matter. Or wether he will improve significantly enough to be a regular first choice for us. On current form I’m inclined to say he is the second best after Smalling, and that these two is our best CB pairing as well. I’m one of those yearning for Bailly to sort his weaknesses out, as I love him when he’s at his best.
How do you come to that conclusion, or have you been watching Bailly since he was a kid? A few games where he was good is not a good metric to guage his 'absolute best'. The truth is Smalling at his 'absolute best' was, and is one of the best defenders in the league.
If you only started watching Bailly when he joined Man Utd, then I don't know how you can even point out his absolute best or even consider it better than Smallings'.
And also that he's crap at heading the ball, which is essential for centre back.
Great leap, shit timing, and seems to close his eyes, ends up going over the ball and heading downwards. It's schoolboy technique. It needs to massively improve if he wants to be a starter.
Those things you mentioned are extrinsic and depend heavily on the two intrinsic ones - composure and awareness. For example, in a one-one tackle, you need composure; to mark properly, you need awareness. 95% of the CBs out there can head, tackle, mark etc with ease.
A CB has to be good at those things but without composure and awareness, a CB simply can't be a top one.
He also sometimes simultaneously lowers his head and raises his shoulders. It's like he jumps and then ducks while in the air. It can be hilarious if it wasn't so infuriating.
Good post.
This new Caf narrative that Fellaini is playing as No6 to protect Lindelöfs ”weakness” is ridicilous IMO.
We had major problems defensively last year as well when it came to long balls, crosses and corners, especially against the ”lesser” teams that play a more direct game.
This despite us having the most physically imposing team in the top 6. Its stupid to put the blame for this on a CB that didnt even play that much last year. You can put equally or more blame at the feet of Matic, Lukaku and Pogba that should do much better due to their physicality. As well as De Gea who still has a lot to do in the area of commanding and dominating his penalty area.
Mourinho was always going to address this problem first and foremost this year. Its probably the area where we conceded the most unnecessary goals last season.
By playing Fellaini there Mourinho has managed to remedy a situation that was a major problem last year. So far. It has very little to do with Lindelöf, who has his plus and minuses as well as the others in what actually is a very even CB-squad. Best form will play as it should be (even if I dont see Mourinho dropping Smalling for the same reason as he is playing Fellaini).
So true. Infuriating especially as he's got a ridiculous jump on him. He just hangs in the air like Ronaldo. By that token he should be unbeatable in the air. But his head just shrinks back into his shirt.
There is a reason he has started the last two seasons and Smalling has been on the bench. He has the most ability of any of our defenders. Mourinho knows ultimately Smalling needs to be upgraded but his consistency is valuable when the rest can't be trusted for various reasons.
Spot on.
Stop trying on this nonsense in every thread that can be subtly traced back to a discussion about Smalling. Nobody is buying it.
Conspiracy theory?
Yeah ok. And no, I did not say he is only bad in the air, both him and Bailly are very poor in the air, Fellaini is not only there to help him out in attacking aerial balls, but in general to defend. It's very obvious watching the last two games. If you failed to realize that, nothing I can do to change your mind. Mourinho is not certifiably mad, but you are talking about the guy who persists with Alexis despite him being utter crap, and the same standards don't comply on him. Not to mention his treatment of Shaw.
Mourinho is not mad, yet he like many other managers does make strange even stupid choices. Him choosing Lindelof in two games over Bailly does not have to mean he rates the one as better, chill out. If he yet persist with the Swede and it costs us long term, like it probably will, then it will be another in the line of examples where Mourinho fails to get his most talented players playing and performing. Which would cost his job eventually. But please let's not make this thing about Jose, as I said already it's been two games only, and we will see how it pens out in a month.
I personally don't know what Jose saw in him to start him over Smalling. Jones I can understand and I'm not sure what is the guy still doing here after the summer. I feel Bailly is being punished for the penalty, and eventually he will be back into the team, since as I said he is a better CB than Lindelof.
His reading of the game is questionable, he has shown nothing to say it's his strength, he is disciplined that is ok and understanding of tactics, a PL CB should have an understanding of tactics as a bare minimum, if that counts as some fecking strength than wtf are our scouts doing. His positioning and awareness to stay close and mark players is his strength? I don't think so. It's questionable to say the least and has no pace for recovery, which makes it even worse. Good at organizing the defense? Based on what? He is timid and no leader, Smalling has came in and taken that responsibility of organizing the back line.
A fighter?
If Lindelof is a fighter than God help us. He is good on the ball you are right, solid technician but Bailly is fairly more comfortable with it for example. And Lindelof is no better passer either. Maybe he doesn't rush headlessly like Bailly, but when he does, it's either a foul or he losses the duel. Responsible? Is that his strength based on some story like Xhaka maybe? Since I don't know how did you come out with that. And his organizing skills I must have missed, since I've seen nothing of sorts, very often he can't organize himself. like for example that backpass vs Spurs, which was an obvious brainfart. He makes as many mistakes as Bailly really. Lindelof made a mistake for the first Brighton goal, and made a total clusterfeck against Spurs which was not punished, among other incidents. Bailly made a stupid penalty. On stat boards, they both have 1 error leading to goal counted.
Seems so. Apparently he knows what Mourinho is thinking.
No, he started this season because Smalling was unfit. There is a reason Smalling is our first choice CB and he's barely fourth choice.
If Mourinho knows he has the most ability of our defenders, he'd be starting every game alongside Smalling at least.
It's the Eric Bailly thread. I post about him. It's not my fault there is a group of Smalling fans patrolling all the threads for mention of him. Any thread about any of our defenders is the same.
You made a ridiculous point about him and Smalling so deal with it.
His potential is definitely high but he needs to stop being brainless on the pitch to get benefit of it. Otherwise he'll be another Jones in the making.
Bailly's main issue imo is his positional sense and that is what usually leads to his more rash challenges and wild clearances. I thought the best example of this was the match at the Etihad last year when Sterling switched into the false 9 role early in the 1st half and took Bailly on a wild goose chase dropping deep then burning him for pace to get in behind again and again.
Since then Jose has had a very short leash with him and for good reason. He has incredible natural talent but he must iron out his deficiencies in his understanding and positioning to actualize his potential.
Since then Jose has had a very short leash with him and for good reason. He has incredible natural talent but he must iron out his deficiencies in his understanding and positioning to actualize his potential.
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