People aren’t judging him off of 1 performance. It’s such a frustrating thing to hear people say. People are judging him off of every game he has played here part of his issue is being too aggressive and going wondering.
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Correct and unsurprising call to drop him. Was only a question of whether he or Lindelof would make the bench. I guess choosing Lindelof over Bailly shows Mourinho is more concerned with Bailly's performances
This is the reason this guy was dropped: no brains. If you have any brains, after you mess up you apologize. "Sorry, I messed up." Just this. You don't pick up fights with pundits. This is stupid. Just totally stupid.
I'm no fan of Jones and not a huge Smalling fan, but this had to happen. You cannot reward performances like Eric and Victor's last week by allowing them to remain in the team, they literally cost us the game. When that happens, there's no choice but to drop the culprits.
I'd like to apologise and tell you how right you were. Smalling had a stormer last night I knew we wouldn't concede another 3 like we did at Brighton because of Smallings presence in the team. Great defender
De Gea was playing too. I guess he cant be a good goalkeeper if he conceded 3 goals?
Problem is there are mistakes by our centre backs in every game. Dropping them all after one bad game sends the wrong message entirely. Our defence was equally hopeless against Tottenham, despite Young being dropped and Matic returning. Jones lost Kane for one goal and tried his best to ship another two and Smalling was hardly rock solid on the other goals with his usual lack of awareness. We have ended up in a merry go round where all 5 CBs are bricking it every time they play.
Jose should pick his preferred defenders and let them know the position is theirs to make their own. The focus should be on the benched players to work their way into the team, not the starting players to work their way out of it.
DeGea was also on the pitch at Brighton when you thought Smalling would have done a better job. Smalling is as bad as the rest you just can't admit it
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Because he played better than the CBs who played against Brighton and made 1 mistake whilst playing very well?
Pundits do their job, why do players care so much ? You're only opening up for more distractions
I think its fine to fight the pundits but don't whine about what they say, that just looks weak.
I didn't expect Bailly to start crying for more support, I thought he was made of sterner stuff. Even if you think Red Nev might tone it down, why would Scouse Souness support a Man Utd player? I'm surprised him and Redknapp weren't in hysterics at Bailly's expense. They're Liverpool, they hate United, don't be begging for their backing. Prove them wrong.
I'd be all for it had Bailly come out and said something to the effect of 'they can say whatever they want about me but when I was good against Leicester they were silent and I promise you they'll be silent again soon.' Instead he just came across as a bit pitiful. That's not a good look for a Man Utd player. Speaks to the feeble, panicky mentality of this squad.
Someone must be working with this guy from the coaching team. What do we do every day with our players because you see the same mistakes over and over again. Even the basics you are told as a child when defending, stay on your feet show them onto their weaker foot.
Watford 1:2 Man Utd
The stoppage time Eric Bailly substitution, such a comforting sight.
He's still being punished for his horror show against Brighton but he's three times the defender Lindelof will ever be.
I agree - hopefully he can work his way back into the team
Two games, two wins without him. Like him a lot, he's still young but still a lot to learn....
Disagree. For all Lindelof faults he's still a more reliable CB than Bailly and I can see why he's ahead.
Disagree. For all Lindelof faults he's still a more reliable CB than Bailly and I can see why he's ahead.
Can someone tell me why this guy isn't playing on a regular basis? The man is a true athlete. His movement and agility is second to none. How the feck kan Lindelöf get game time before him?
Yeah, it's down to him not playing, nothing to do with Fellaini babysitting our other "young" CB and our best CB finally playing.
Reliable?
Bailly for all his faults, is twice the defender Lindelof is. And they are just as reliable, only with Bailly you can actually see his raw potential, with Lindelof we are yet to figure what is he good at.
Bailly has the body but not the brain.
Lindeloff has the brain but not the body.
Lindeloff has the brain but not the body.
Smalling and Bailly are the interchangeable pair, not Lindelof. He plays with them not instead of them. Of the two Bailly is a better player but Smalling can stay fit and is more reliable.
There's been nothing in his time at United to suggest that Bailly is a better player than Smalling.
Of course there has. When he's at his best he's brilliant. He's just not at that level often enough, either through injury or his own mind.
Such a stereotype. Bailly has the athleticism required but struggles, so he must be lacking cognitively. Vice versa for Lindelöf. Completely stigmatizing and sometimes completely untrue. Isn't Lukaku regarded as one of our more intelligent players both on and off the pitch? So his athleticism is his style of play because he can afford to. Kane, for instance, has to play differently because he doesn't have Lukaku's strength or speed.
Blind was, and still is, forced to play differently from Bailly - it doesn't mean he is any more intelligent. Evra always let his attackers get a yard on them only to accelerate past them and either steal the ball from them or tackle out of play - an intelligent play because he led them down one side. Against Lennon it didn't work because Lennon was faster still, and so he looked, by your metric, unintelligent in his approach. Bailly just needs to find his feet and find out when he can rely on his physicality and when he needs to be more proactive. I think most physically gifted players experience that. Giggs said once that when he was young, football was easy because he could just hit and run and it always worked. When he got older, he had to play differently - I doubt his intelligence improved, but his approach did.
There really isn't. Smalling has been the best centre half at the club consistently over a period of about four years. Bailly has had a handful of very good performances, some shocking ones, and spent a huge amount of time injured.
He may have shown enough to suggest he could go past Smalling's level, but there's really very little to suggest he's currently there.
I'm still bemused by people who havent worked this out. It's like we're watching different games altogether.
Reliable?
Bailly for all his faults, is twice the defender Lindelof is. And they are just as reliable, only with Bailly you can actually see his raw potential, with Lindelof we are yet to figure what is he good at.
Easy. Positioning and awareness. Bit more composure as well.
No doubt Bailly is faster, stronger, more aggressive. But he gets dragged everywhere on that pitch seemingly making it his mission to tackle every player that has the ball to the ground. Often when it's totally unnecessary. He quite often vacates his position and exposes his defensive pair.
Both Smalling and Lindelof are conservative defenders who are happy to sit back, hold the line and protect the centre of the defence first and foremost. And that yields the best results and the fewest conceded goals.
Way to go off topic. You instantly claimed I am stereotyping because of body features. Please do not speak/assume things on behalf of me.
For me Lukaku is one of the smartest players we have in our squad. His athleticism is not correlated with his intelligence.
For me, Bailly (currently) lacks the intelligence to be a world class CB even though he has the physical attributes whereas Lindeloff is physically weak whilst his intelligence in positioning/passing is better.
Something to do with not actually being that good at the football part. He's absolutely shocking at times. Everyone can talk shit about Smalling and yet he's still easily better.
Positioning and awareness? Based on what? How he lost Murray for the first Brighton goal? Or how he had no idea what he was doing and where he was standing for their second? He has more composure than Bailly? No way, Bailly has shown composure and calmness on the ball much more than Lindelof for me. And to mention even the third Brighton goal, he should have been much closer to the attacker, Bailly lounging in like an idiot brushed that all aside, but it was bad defending again if you ask me.
Not saying that Bailly is any better, but Lindelof is just as bad, only his playing "style" is to do nothing until is too late or to just watch passively while the attacker receives the ball and turns, by the time he is not close enough nor fast enough to close him out. That passive "defending" from him actually masks how many duels he would lose if he actually committed himself more often.
Conservative defenders are actually able to defend, Smalling is our best guy for that, Lindelof has shown nothing of that. He is getting babysit by Fellaini the past two games, we get Bailly instead of Lindelof and we are a better team easily.
Based on the fact that in both the two occassions you are describing, Lindelof was in the right part of the pitch which is precisely what positioning is. He's not the most physical or the quickest to react and he gets beaten to too many balls, which is why he's never gonna be a top defender (or anywhre near). He could and should have marked Murray better for both goals.
But he doesn't get dragged out of the defence to tackle in unnecessary positions like Bailly does. He doesn't lunge in, unless absolutely necessary. Therefore he makes Smalling's job easier simply by marking the right space and holding the line. Hence Smalling prefers playing with Lindelof rather than Bailly, by his own admission.
You also said awareness, he had none when he lost Murray, that's what I meant. Yeah I've seen that Smalling supposedly prefers playing alongside Lindelof, but it matter more what is better for the team really. I bet Smalling likes how he looks like Baresi next to his favorite partner.
At his best he's a colossus, at his worst it's like watching laurel and hardy play football.
He seems to prefer playing the RCB slot but then so does Smalling, so right now the best pair is Smalling/Lindelof.
Bailly needs to concentrate more when he gets his chance, as he's our next best after Smalling IMO.
He seems to prefer playing the RCB slot but then so does Smalling, so right now the best pair is Smalling/Lindelof.
Bailly needs to concentrate more when he gets his chance, as he's our next best after Smalling IMO.
Bailly has potential. But it’s laughable to even suggest that Bailly is better than Smalling.
Granted he showed little awareness of Murray's position for that first goal. I think that's more of an exception than the rule with him. He most often seems aware of what he has to do, he just loses out due to lack of strength or speed or simply timidity. He's not a good man marker let's put it that way.
The partnership of Smalling-Blind yielded results for the team and so has the Smalling-Lindelof relationship so far, albeit in a tiny sample. So whatever Smalling's partner makes him feel about himself, it seems to be delivering for the team as well. So it might be in our benefit to continue down that route.
This pretty much sums him up. There are moments of real quality from him and then the next minute he can be the defender equivelant of Taibi.
I prefer a defender who snuffs out the danger before it happens so they don’t have to risk fouls with a last ditch risky tackle or a stretch to get a block in which are things Bailly is quite good at but it should never have to get to that stage. I think this is where a lot of people differ on defenders, people love Jones, Bailly and Rojo for last ditch tackles and storming in full blooded with crunching tackles. To me they have already made the mistake if they are having to do that, Rio and Vidic and even Smalling, Blind and Lindelof don’t have to go to ground and they use intelligence to suffocate the danger. Smalling can certainly do the aggressive last ditch stuff when he needs to and so can Lindelof but like I said if they are doing that then the mistake has already happened somewhere.
I think Rio also said once, if he has to go to ground then he has already screwed up.
I think we are saying the same thing.
I think we're all disappointed with Bailly's development, or lack thereof. I thought he was going to be a huge player for us after his first couple of months but anyone who would currently put him ahead of Smalling in the pecking order is kidding themselves. Agree that Smalling Lindelof looks our best pair at the moment.
As I said in the other thread, it's mostly down to Fellaini and the protection our CB get when he plays. To be sincere I fear when Lindelof plays, and I think it's just a matter of time when we get punished because of him. If he continues playing, I hope I'm proved wrong, I would gladly eat my words.
United fans do not deserve Eric Bailly. Remember when he was signed, he was clearing everything that came into the box, and no attackers could beat him for pace? So he had an injury and is recovering and suddenly he is useless. He is a United player through and through, is still very young and has the makings of a world-class defender. Some perspective will help.
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