[Highfather_24]

To answer your first question, our midfield doesn't need specialists. We have two of them: Pogba being creative and not offering much else, and Fred who is a very limited bulldog (destroyer). What we need is an all-round midfielder, who can do a bit of everything even if you can't tell what he excels at.

Let me ask you this, what in your opinion is the way to the first squad if not by having decent to good performances in B team?
I can name you a few posters who would cream themselves on this forum if Pogba played like Donny did vs West Ham (not that it was a great performance, but a good one at least).
And again, it's not like he can't get a game because we have fully functional midfield.

We dont need specialists, we need players who are good at atleast one thing. VdB(apart from his movement which is nullified from a CM position) doesnt have that.

I dont think his performances in the B team have justified moving to the A team, just like Telles, Dalot, Mata or Martial. He has been average, and I dont think we would be any better with him in the first team.

 

[Borys]

Guessed wrong, just more interested in Utd and don't get why DVB, might be wrong but I'm guessing most on here have never watched him play a full league game for Ajax would create such an issue. I honestly think if McFred played well against West Ham's B team, most on here would say, that's their level.

Well exactly! And yet they are first choice midfielders at United. Which is why I don't think van de Beek can't get in midfield ahead of them if given some opportunities.
It's not about being interested in United vs van de Beek, I don't know why this narration was created. It's about looking for a solution to a big problem we have in midfield area.

 

[Litch]

Seen a lot of comments like "If he cannot be a starter here, he should leave" which is just baffling to me.

I'm equally baffled. If that's the case, we are fecked. Are the rest of the squad players gonna follow him out the door? I'm sure Lindelof and Henderson should be playing first team somewhere too.

 

[captaincantona]

Glad there is a new sense of fairness being offered to players and especially as some on here believe he's better than what we have given that they tune into the Dutch league and have seen him play. Sorry but Real wanted him, yep Man City wanted Fred too. Because people hate our midfield, for some unknown reason to me, this automatically means let's play anyone but them in there. These are the same people who want to play Lindelof as a CDM. Some people need to switch off the PS4.....

Weird defensive and misjudged post there. People have eyes...they watch our midfield 2 sit on the halfway line playing the ball side to side...miscontrolling passes and slowing the game to a walking pace...and they say “maybe we should try something different...Do we have any other options that we haven’t FULLY explored?” Well...it sounds mad...but we do have the previously highly rated Midfielder product of the best youth academy in Europe who was pretty hot property we signed for €35million! Can we honestly say he had been given a shot to see if he can help improve our zombie football?

So it ain’t a case of just playing “anyone” we have a midfielder with CL experience that has never played 90 minutes back to back in 18 months!!!! It’s not fuking rocket science.

The truth is, Ole needs to keep grinding out results to ensure he doesn’t get the bullet. McFred help with that. Donny ain’t a risk worth taking as he can’t afford any loose midfield displays because it would most probably lead to results that see him sacked. That doesn’t mean that the guy doesn’t deserve a shot. Not out of fairness, out of common sense.

 

[Borys]

We dont need specialists, we need players who are good at atleast one thing. VdB(apart from his movement which is nullified from a CM position) doesnt have that.

I dont think his performances in the B team have justified moving to the A team, just like Telles, Dalot, Mata or Martial. He has been average, and I dont think we would be any better with him in the first team.

Ok, what is McTominay good at then? Or Fred? What are they better at compared to van de Beek? It's a small sample but I'm curious what is your opinion.

I'd say his movement off the ball, making himself available for a pass is exactly what is missing in our midfield.
I also think this approach ("he's been average") is not the way to build a squad.
The difference vs the players you mentioned is they have much better competition.

 

[Champ]

It's not subjective. Thinking we played well is subjective. Looking at chances and goals that should've been scored is not subjective. The goal we scored was not even a proper chance yet we scored it because we have very good players so we're always capable of pulling something out of the bag. Something that we see happen again and again. They battered us in that first half. They should've scored at least 3 goals last night and that's even ignoring the 2 on 1 against Dalot that they messed up. De Gea by himself made 3 incredible saves. How many saves did their keeper make? Had they scored their chances, our chances would've been moot. And it's not as though we even had that many chances. Sancho fell over on one but apart from that it was all, half chances or balls that almost made it. Theirs were one on ones, free shots on goal, guilt-edged. Don't let stats rule your eyes.

I'll watch the games with an open mind as I often tend too instead.

Its obvious on your viewpoint, and that's fine, but I have desire to carry on this conversation as it's clear we are differing sides of the spectrum with this.

 

[Matt851]

S

Glad there is a new sense of fairness being offered to players and especially as some on here believe he's better than what we have given that they tune into the Dutch league and have seen him play. Sorry but Real wanted him, yep Man City wanted Fred too. Because people hate our midfield, for some unknown reason to me, this automatically means let's play anyone but them in there. These are the same people who want to play Lindelof as a CDM. Some people need to switch off the PS4.....

Ah the old i know more about football than you so your opinion is incorrect/irrelevant

The fact is almost every football writer consistently identifies the mcfred conbination as a massive weakness. Therefore its hardly suprising people want to see us try alternatives

Donnys attributes appear to enable him to play as the more offensive of the double pivot ,regardless of what your in depth scouting of him suggests

 

[lex talionis]

We need to back this up a bit. However one views Donny’s ability — the next Fred, the next Zidane or somewhere in between or whatever — it was a colossal waste of club resources to spend 35m on on a player and never give him a proper chance.

 

[Presto]

Donny is a good player but it's hard to assess his performance because West Ham were so ordinary

Yet we still lost to that "so ordinary" team

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Seen a lot of comments like "If he cannot be a starter here, he should leave" which is just baffling to me.

Nobody is saying that. People are saying if he's not going to be given a chance, he should be allowed to leave. Massive difference between the two.

 

[Counterfactual]

Ole was a "super sub". Close to half his total appearances came from the bench. I wonder if he thinks sitting on the bench is no bad thing. Of course, DvB may not see it that way.

 

[Litch]

Well exactly! And yet they are first choice midfielders at United. Which is why I don't think van de Beek can't get in midfield ahead of them if given some opportunities.
It's not about being interested in United vs van de Beek, I don't know why this narration was created. It's about looking for a solution to a big problem we have in midfield area.

Think of the biggest games in Oles time here. Think of the games where he was under pressure to win. Think about the biggest games in CL. The majority of those games featured either Fred or Scott or both. Whether we like them or not, Ole does. What everyone else sees as a problem he doesn't. Yesterday Fred is arguably dropped, comes on and cross leads to the goal, that's what Donny is up against. Lingard too, off the bench, goal and assist.

 

[Litch]

Weird defensive and misjudged post there. People have eyes...they watch our midfield 2 sit on the halfway line playing the ball side to side...miscontrolling passes and slowing the game to a walking pace...and they say “maybe we should try something different...Do we have any other options that we haven’t FULLY explored?” Well...it sounds mad...but we do have the previously highly rated Midfielder product of the best youth academy in Europe who was pretty hot property we signed for €35million! Can we honestly say he had been given a shot to see if he can help improve our zombie football?

So it ain’t a case of just playing “anyone” we have a midfielder with CL experience that has never played 90 minutes back to back in 18 months!!!! It’s not fuking rocket science.

The truth is, Ole needs to keep grinding out results to ensure he doesn’t get the bullet. McFred help with that. Donny ain’t a risk worth taking as he can’t afford any loose midfield displays because it would most probably lead to results that see him sacked. That doesn’t mean that the guy doesn’t deserve a shot. Not out of fairness, out of common sense.

So using your logic, Ole needs to play him why? We are 1 point of top of the PL and still in the CL? Even if it's shite, what would playing Donny change? Yep maybe playing better football no doubt but that doesn't equate to winning games. I don't believe there is many fans who would win sitting next to SAF every home game, if the odds were playing Scott and Fred playing shit football v the risk of playing Donny and potentially losing but playing better football.....

 

[Litch]

S

Ah the old i know more about football than you so your opinion is incorrect/irrelevant

The fact is almost every football writer consistently identifies the mcfred conbination as a massive weakness. Therefore its hardly suprising people want to see us try alternatives

Donnys attributes appear to enable him to play as the more offensive of the double pivot ,regardless of what your in depth scouting of him suggests

Ah....you have no idea how old I am? Ah...football writers must be right or does the McFred hate gets them a few more hits.
Donnys attributes you say, how many times have you turned on your sky remote and thought, just fancy watching some Dutch football, great the Donny lads playing, he got some great attributes.
My in depth scouting of him is probably as deep as yours. Opinion based and very shallow.

 

[Borys]

Think of the biggest games in Oles time here. Think of the games where he was under pressure to win. Think about the biggest games in CL. The majority of those games featured either Fred or Scott or both. Whether we like them or not, Ole does. What everyone else sees as a problem he doesn't. Yesterday Fred is arguably dropped, comes on and cross leads to the goal, that's what Donny is up against. Lingard too, off the bench, goal and assist.

Fair enough, I won't argue as I've been defending McFred many many times on this forum. But that's not the point, questions we should be asking ourselves: will McFred be able to play every game? What if one of them can't play?
Our plan A is failing, and we don't even have a plan B. That's why people on here are advocating for games for van de Beek. We need options.
Now it seems likely he'll leave before he is given a chance. In that case we need like 3 midfielders next summer most likely.

 

[Stacks]

We need a player who can move the ball in the centre. That’s VDB and the fecker is on the bench. Play him Ole you stupid twat.

what this guy says

Seen absolutely nothing from VDB to suggest he is a Manchester United player.
It does seem to me that the more games he doesn't play, the better he seems to get on here.

that's how it works.
1)Everything is to undermine the manager and
2)partly the fans want to see new players come in and do well so will yearn for them with no tangible evidence of them being good enough
3) our current options being sooo bad sometimes we think its impossible for the new guy to be worse

 

[VanDeBank]

So using your logic, Ole needs to play him why? We are 1 point of top of the PL and still in the CL?

We're not playing very well, and we're likely not going to finish 1 point of top with how we're playing.

Even if it's shite, what would playing Donny change?

He's one player. The only relevant question: is he better than McFred?

Yep maybe playing better football no doubt but that doesn't equate to winning games.

So you're saying playing Donny would make our football less shit? I don't think he would, because I've seen enough of Ole to know otherwise, but less shit football isn't preferable, because? We don't know if we would win less with VDB in the pivot.

I don't believe there is many fans who would win sitting next to SAF every home game, if the odds were playing Scott and Fred playing shit football v the risk of playing Donny and potentially losing but playing better football.....

false dichotomy.

Terrible post. Nothing in here makes any sort of sense.

I don't really rate him, but I'd give him a chance as I think he's better than McTominay, who I rate even less.

 

[Strelok]

Sure, multiple 5 and 10-minute appearances add up, especially when supplemented by the odd 45 or a full 90 in a meaningless cup. Absolutely it's ok to judge him on that. Just like it would be ok to judge you from day 1 in your new job if you came in for an hour each week and only worked with the worst employees. I'm sure you'd excel. But let's not judge that, let's judge the terrible performances McTominay and Fred have given in recent times, despite being given chance after chance after chance. All we ask for Donny is a similar chance. Is it really that hard to understand?

It's not like all he had is what you said. He got his first start in the PL in the WH match last season I think. Ole decided to rest Bruno and give him a chance. If you remember well he was so bad that Ole had to sub him off and bring Bruno on by mid time, how many times you've seen Ole did so? We were fecking lucky that Bruno was able to save our ass that day.

If you're a new player you gotta impress whenever you have the chance. Especially at a big club. Even if it's only 5' or 10'. Imo it's a bit dumb to compare competitive professional football to a normal job. The pressure to get results there is simply crazy no manager at a top club will give a player a run of games if he'd risk losing his job doing that. Sometime even a game. One point could well be the difference between a 4th and 5th place. A manager needs results to survive. A player must show what he got, or at least a slim of that to get more chances. If not he'll get less and less that's how it is.

The problem with Donny is whenever he's given chance he doesn't shine, he doesn't stand out. Especially against the lesser teams like in the FA or League Cup. I can't remember a match I'd say he's above average. You know how top clubs spot good players from the smaller teams? They stand out from the average bunch. The problem with Donny is he doesn't. And he sucks big time when he's given a chance against an equal opponent like the WH match.

Ole won't risk his job for the sake of Donny's career, it's as simple as that. Unless there's a big injuries crisis he won't play him, especially in the PL. And imo it's absolutely justified based on what he has showed here so far. So the sooner he leaves the better for both sides I think. He'll get to revive his career somewhere else, not a top team though I think. And we get some money to buy a proper midfielder we desperately need.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Not that I agree with the claim, but the claim that Donny just isn’t cut out for United’s style of play is a plausible argument. What our “style of play” actually is deserves its own thread, but I would argue that, given how poor we’ve been this season apart from the Leeds match, we need more of what Donny can do and less of what Fred can do. But reasonable minds can disagree on that.

But I’m not having the argument that Donny has been given enough chances. That’s just fukking absurd.

We’ve wasted one and it looks like it will be two seasons of Donny’s promising career. He’ll move on and do well somewhere, but we’ve let Edwin van der Sar down and it’s a pretty safe bet now that Ajax players will not be interested in joining United any time soon.

Yeah, can't imagine any Ajax players fancying Utd now, unless maybe Ten Hag comes.

 

[HailtotheKing]

I'm equally baffled. If that's the case, we are fecked. Are the rest of the squad players gonna follow him out the door? I'm sure Lindelof and Henderson should be playing first team somewhere too.

Yeah, I'm baffled too. Lindelof has been given stacks of chances. He's now been replaced by a better player. He probably understands that. If Varane stinks out the place game on game and Linedelof never gets a chance, fair play he would get upset like Donny. Same with Henderson. Henderson is already upset. But he's watching a guy excelling, so he can have no complaints. Donny is watching players continuously playing crap and still he's not given a chance. Last week he was one of the best players against West Ham and we controlled the midfield. Yet he doesn't get another minute. Scott is out with an injury and comes straight back in and plays almost 3 full games in like 10 days. And plays terribly. If you're a squad player and never get a chance, yes you'd be pissed. Just like if you were in a job and were continuously passed over for promotion for much worse guys and despite getting all the promises.

 

[TMDaines]

Yeah, can't imagine any Ajax players fancying Utd now, unless maybe Ten Hag comes.

Just take a look at the salaries of Ajax players. It's like arguing that no Dortmund players will fancy United after Kagawa and Mkhi, or no Sporting players after Rojo.

It's Donny van de Beek, a fringe international footballer. Get a grip.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Just read on twitter that Donny's first goal for Ajax came against Ole's Molde in Europa League in a 1-1 draw.

All makes sense now. Ole hasn't forgotten.

 

[Borys]

So using your logic, Ole needs to play him why? We are 1 point of top of the PL and still in the CL? Even if it's shite, what would playing Donny change? Yep maybe playing better football no doubt but that doesn't equate to winning games. I don't believe there is many fans who would win sitting next to SAF every home game, if the odds were playing Scott and Fred playing shit football v the risk of playing Donny and potentially losing but playing better football.....

That's an extreme opinion I'll give you that.

A question, would you play McTominay Pogba next game? We got a result against Villarreal. You seem extremely result oriented so I'm interested to hear your answer.

 

[Highfather_24]

Ok, what is McTominay good at then? Or Fred? What are they better at compared to van de Beek? It's a small sample but I'm curious what is your opinion.

I dont think VdB is that good at making himself available for the ball either, Matic, Pogba are much better at that than him.

Fred has been really bad this season, McT inconsistent. But last season they were our 2 best CMs. Fred is a workhorse and a ball winner, and often his quick passing on transitions help start counters. McTominay also provides a lot of energy and driving runs from midfield, provides physicality, and is good to have in either box on setpieces. Both of them are combative and tend to cover for each other positionally, so are a good partnership. We all know their flaws though, but their industry and ball winning ability is very important, and why we are good on transitions.

Nobody is saying that. People are saying if he's not going to be given a chance, he should be allowed to leave. Massive difference between the two.

Its not like he's been frozen out. Yeah, probably not given load of chances, but its disingenuous to say he's not been given a chance at all. There are other players who have played less than him. And whenever he's played he has been bang average. Fans wanting a player to leave because he's a squad player is baffling.

 

[HailtotheKing]

I'll watch the games with an open mind as I often tend too instead.

Its obvious on your viewpoint, and that's fine, but I have desire to carry on this conversation as it's clear we are differing sides of the spectrum with this.

Dude, they had 4 guilt-edged chances in the opening 20 minutes, another around 30 and another right at the end. That's 6 amazing chances that were better than anything we had. Watch the highlights or watch the game again. Now tell me what great chances we had in the first half? They should've buried us. And we only got going in the second half thanks to some combined individual brilliance from Bruno and Telles. Only the chance where Sancho slipped was a really good one. Can't remember if that was the first half or not. We can argue about different opinions of our midfield all day long. But surely you can't argue with the chances? How many times have teams come back from 3-0 down in the Champions League at half time btw? Because that's what we should've been.

Not sure if I can share links so search for this one on YouTube then come back and talk:

Manchester United vs. Villarreal: Extended Highlihts | UCL Groups Stage MD 2 | CBS Sports Golazo

 

[BorisManUtd]

Start him against Everton next to one of Matić/Fred/McTominay. He was solid imo in games he started so far this season.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Just take a look at the salaries of Ajax players. It's like arguing that no Dortmund players will fancy United after Kagawa and Mkhi, or no Sporting players after Rojo.

It's Donny van de Beek, a fringe international footballer. Get a grip.

If we're competing with similar teams for those players that will happen yeah. If it's only us then of course you're right.

 

[Rilz]

Has anyone actually seen anything from him in his sub appearances that justifies the clamour to have him start in our midfield? or is it that lack of chances prompting so many to want him to be picked.

Not one time can I remember him ever coming on and being an upgrade on who he's replaced.

 

[Stacks]

By that measure, he should be playing every game, since the shit Fred, McTominay and Matic serve up on a weekly basis seems to get them constantly rewarded with more gametime.

It's not even the fact he doesn't play, we have multiple offers for him in the summer, yet Ole blocked the sale, why? It's almost like he seems intent on ruining this guys career, nobody is suggesting he is a world beater but when our midfield looks dire every game at least give him a run of games and see what he can produce, not 5 minute cameos every now and again, it genuinely cannot be any worse than what we have.

And again, why didnt we sell and buy a midfielder Ole would have used? It just makes no sense at all

I'm inclined to agree. Its like he is punishing him and wants him to miss the world cup

 

[Suedesi]

It’s photoshopped jeez it’s even a bad photoshop and people are reacting to it

Eat moar pasta

 

[Borys]

Has anyone actually seen anything from him in his sub appearances that justifies the clamour to have him start in our midfield? or is it that lack of chances prompting so many to want him to be picked.

Not one time can I remember him ever coming on and being an upgrade on who he's replaced.

Did you see him against Everton (pre season), Young Boys and West Ham (started all 3 games in midfield) or do you judge him only by 5min cameos?

 

[Litch]

Terrible post. Nothing in here makes any sort of sense.

I don't really rate him, but I'd give him a chance as I think he's better than McTominay, who I rate even less.

Oh please, the comment that you don't really rate him but at least he's better than McT is absolutely laughable. So my shite smells, just not as bad as yours. You know it's still shit don't you?

 

[soapythecat]

Sit tight Donny. Ole will be gone by Christmas and you’ll get your chance with a decent manager.

 

[VanDeBank]

Oh please, the comment that you don't really rate him but at least he's better than McT is absolutely laughable. So my shite smells, just not as bad as yours. You know it's still shit don't you?

Another logical fallacy...Congrats! You're one of 4 people to go on my ignore list.

I don't think AWB is good enough. Would I want AWB to start over Williams if he was in the XI? Same dynamic with McT and VDB.

 

[The Mitcher]

Sit tight Donny. Ole will be gone by Christmas and you’ll get your chance with a decent manager.

Christ almighty. This is as bad as any Martial FC post.

 

[Litch]

Another logical fallacy...Congrats! You're one of 4 people to go on my ignore list.

I don't think AWB is good enough. Would I want AWB to start over Williams if he was in the XI? Same dynamic with McT and VDB.

Only 4, others must not be trying hard enough. Oh incidentally, won't be losing any sleep over that. It's a public forum with different opinions which clearly is evidence that no one has the definitive view. Not sure why people become offended 'ignore list' and all cause someone doesn't share their view. Anyway, Im sure you can make your own weird sense of degrees of 'not good enough'. Maybe your shit doesn't smell as bad as mine then? I'll take my position 4 with pride.

 

[Rilz]

Did you see him against Everton (pre season), Young Boys and West Ham (started all 3 games in midfield) or do you judge him only by 5min cameos?

Automatically discounting pre-season games with no pressure that mean absolutely nothing.

yes did watch both of those games and he stood out in neither. Young boys in particular we were being run ragged in midfield! Whilst I agree its hard to make an impact in 5 minute cameos, I'm still yet to be impressed whenever hes been given those 20 min sub appearances over the course of last season.

 

[Borys]

Automatically discounting pre-season games with no pressure that mean absolutely nothing.

yes did watch both of those games and he stood out in neither. Young boys in particular we were being run ragged in midfield! Whilst I agree its hard to make an impact in 5 minute cameos, I'm still yet to be impressed whenever hes been given those 20 min sub appearances over the course of last season.

What about West Ham? He surely stood out in that game. Created our best chance for example.
I also think playing in midfield two at United is difficult, but he does the basics better than Fred and surely better than Pogba (in that small sample that is). That's all, nothing fancy, but surely he didn't deserve to be frozen out.

 

[OleBoiii]

Gum Gate 2021

I hope the silly boy apologized for his insolence!

 

[Adam-Utd]

Gum Gate 2021

I hope the silly boy apologized for his insolence!

eh? he threw it on the floor below him