Exactly! He threw it! In pure, lily white rage!
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Exactly! He threw it! In pure, lily white rage!
It feels like Ole is trying to troll the fans at this stage. The more we want Donny to play the less he will play him.
Maybe we need to be vocal about wanting McFred to play and he will play Donny instead to spite us.
Maybe we need to be vocal about wanting McFred to play and he will play Donny instead to spite us.
Can we even be sure Ole ever watched Donny play, even on YouTube, before the club signed him?
So strange to shovel 35m into the furnace when those funds could have been used to purchase a player Ole rated and needed.
So strange to shovel 35m into the furnace when those funds could have been used to purchase a player Ole rated and needed.
He scored his first goal against Ole's Molde, so he had definitely watched him before.
It’s such a strange situation, especially given the money we spent on him.
I’d understand it more if we had a formidable midfield pairing keeping him out of the team but we have Fred and McTominay in front of him, neither of who have exactly played well at all this season.
Fair enough he hasn’t lit the place up in the games he has played, but neither have McFred.. who have had regular games and the confidence of the manager.
Very very strange, I just hope he gets regular games soon.
I’d understand it more if we had a formidable midfield pairing keeping him out of the team but we have Fred and McTominay in front of him, neither of who have exactly played well at all this season.
Fair enough he hasn’t lit the place up in the games he has played, but neither have McFred.. who have had regular games and the confidence of the manager.
Very very strange, I just hope he gets regular games soon.
When he's looking for an attacking alternative to that he picks Pogba, which doesn't work and VDB gets dismissed in the process. Its a bit simplistic but thats how it feels to me.
He’s a million miles better than Fred and Mctominay. I don’t get why he doesn’t get a look in!
For others we say they need match fitness. For DVB he needs to make an instant impact in his cameo roles. He is not a striker or a forward. He needs to play with his team mates to recognize their movements on and off the ball. He is a player who keeps the ball moving in midfield with one touch passes and movement off the ball. Like most Ajax midfield players. They are not going to set the field alight but they keep things ticking.
I really do not understand why he is not being played and if he is not good enough then sell him. His future is being destroyed. He cannot get into the United team and he cannot get into the Dutch team because he never gets any chance to play. It is not as if The Dutch are small minnows where even being on the bench with a club like United gets them into the national squad.
I really do not understand why he is not being played and if he is not good enough then sell him. His future is being destroyed. He cannot get into the United team and he cannot get into the Dutch team because he never gets any chance to play. It is not as if The Dutch are small minnows where even being on the bench with a club like United gets them into the national squad.
You make it seem clubs never fail on the transfer market.. SAF failed numerous times, so has Pep done.
It ain't nothing new...
It’s worse than that. 1st half alone DDG made four top saves AND they missed the one on one from Varane’s mistake. That’s not including their wayward shots, like the toe poke after skinning Dalot which they really should have tested DDG on.
Second half their keeper made one half decent save from Lingard, that’s literally it. Cavani missed a sitter as well.
They also had that goal line bundle where they should have scored as well. There’s likely more but can’t remember, we were peppered all game.
I think OGS just doesn’t know what to do with Donny and even Sancho. Both of them brought up in highly structured systems and taught to play in set combinations with other players. Sancho might be able to get over it because he can beat a man and finish chances, but Donny’s whole game is to be a combination player. Getting a proper coach in would be much better value than letting Ole carry on winging it.
Thanks. Still an odd one that Ole would sanction that huge of an outlay and then rarely ever play the player he sanctioned the huge outlay for. It’s not as though Donny has disgraced himself like Bebe or Djemba-Djemba did.
Yeah but we saw them fail on the pitch. This would be the first time a player has failed without us properly seeing him. Djemba Djemba got tons of chances, so did Kleberson, David Bellion, that Irish midfielder Keane rated. All these players got chances to show what they could do. But not Donny. That's the difference.
When you see the shitshow that is McFred, if you can control a ball and pass it 5 metres you are already better than those beforementioned two.
So it begs the question what the feck is up Solskjaer asshole that he doesn't play Donny. Did Donny not say please and thankyou to him once or something
So it begs the question what the feck is up Solskjaer asshole that he doesn't play Donny. Did Donny not say please and thankyou to him once or something
Bellion 3 season 1600 minutes total in the prem.
Kleberson 2 season 1200 minutes
Djemba Djemba 2.5 seasons 1600 minutes
Donny 1 season 500 minutes
I would say its extremely close between them all. So no, that's not the difference....
It's not like VdB underperformed whenever he got minutes this season, quite contrary, he played much better than both Fred and McT, so saying the club failed on the transfer market for VdB case is hilarious.
If anything, it's all down to Ole for not giving him enough game time as promised to know exactly what VdB can offer
Djemba got 15 starts in his first season. Donny's first season he had 19 appearances, 17 of which were as a sub. There's quite a bit of a difference.
I mean its prettty simple. Ole was asked the other day about his tactics and philosophy and said there are 6's there are 8s and there are 10s and those are midfield players. Paraphrasing a bit but he literally did say it along those lines.
He sees VDB as a 10 and a backup to Bruno and its been that way since the start.
Now I dont see VDB as a 10 at all but its been Ole' view since the start as myopic as it is.
Lame from Ole to keep a player he doesnt like and waste his career. One thing I appreciated about Mourinho and theyre few and far in between, when he had no intention of playing a player, he would just tell him to look elsewhere. Its firm but fair.
Ole seems like a bit of a hoarder.
He sees VDB as a 10 and a backup to Bruno and its been that way since the start.
Now I dont see VDB as a 10 at all but its been Ole' view since the start as myopic as it is.
Lame from Ole to keep a player he doesnt like and waste his career. One thing I appreciated about Mourinho and theyre few and far in between, when he had no intention of playing a player, he would just tell him to look elsewhere. Its firm but fair.
Ole seems like a bit of a hoarder.
Crashing out of the league cup is a big blow to the chances of de beek starting a game. His chances will be even more slim once Rashford is back and if Ole insist on keeping Pogba in the starting 11. I dont think Ole will risk him in CL games especially since we are not in a great position in the group. FA cup can’t come soon enough, but he could be gone by the time. It is a difficult situation for the lad.
It wouldn't be if Ole would start benching those midfielders who are completely out of form
That’s the point, right? If Rashford starts on the left and Pogba takes up one of the midfield spots, then Ole can only pick one of McFred/Matic/Vdb. And based on what we have seen so far, Vdb will be the last one to be picked. Or we have to ditch the 4-2-3-1, which looks less likely.
VDB never had 2 consecutive starts for us. All the others did. Disingenuous post.
Fred went through similar here at first and it took serious persistence and a complete change of position to cement his place (whether that’s a good thing or not. He was actually bought as an attacking/box to box 8 but must have benn considers to be such a liability by Mourinho that he just couldn’t get a run in the team.
Remember when Mourinhio said Fred would get his chance but he couldn’t play him until he got someone more defensive in? Perhaps he was thinking about a better centre half pairing as he knew Lindelof and Bailly and Smalling were not up to it.
Now you have Ole preseason also saying Donny will get his Chance and that Varane will let us change how we play - perhaps a 4-3-3 with two 8’s. But that leaves out Bruno who is always first name on the team sheet.
Whichever way you look at it, it’s square pegs kind of stuff and it’s difficult to know what Ole is trying to get at.
Remember when Mourinhio said Fred would get his chance but he couldn’t play him until he got someone more defensive in? Perhaps he was thinking about a better centre half pairing as he knew Lindelof and Bailly and Smalling were not up to it.
Now you have Ole preseason also saying Donny will get his Chance and that Varane will let us change how we play - perhaps a 4-3-3 with two 8’s. But that leaves out Bruno who is always first name on the team sheet.
Whichever way you look at it, it’s square pegs kind of stuff and it’s difficult to know what Ole is trying to get at.
Kleberson made 29 appearances in all competitions across 2 full seasons.
Djemba djemba made 38 appearances in all competitions across 2 full seasons
Liam Miller made 22 appearances in all competitions across 2 full seasons
Donny van de beek has already made 39 appearances in all competitions, in just one season and a couple of months.
He does not field his XI based on form, and that is showing this season
There's footage where he throws the bib when he realizes he wont be subbed in.
He's not million times better than Fred and McTominay but on the other hand he hasnt been poor every time he played. Truth is somewhere in the middle. Saying that he really should get more chances, especially since Fred and McT combination doesnt work so well and we all heard how Pogba, a midfielder, cant play in a.. well. midfield.
He's not million times better than Fred and McTominay but on the other hand he hasnt been poor every time he played. Truth is somewhere in the middle. Saying that he really should get more chances, especially since Fred and McT combination doesnt work so well and we all heard how Pogba, a midfielder, cant play in a.. well. midfield.
I think Ole changed his mind when Telles couldn’t play on. So he put Fred at left back, otherwise VDB would have come on.
This is sadly a fair criticism which could really come to the fore this season.
There will always be something.
For instance why not try VDB tomorrow vs Everton. You just know he'll go with McFred again.. And try to shoehorn Pogba in somehow again.
That will be the case, as it has been for a long time. It is costing us but Ole seems too risk averse
Yeah. I get playing them in some tough away game or even at home but with all due respect to Everton for instance, there's really no need to play them tomorrow.
Still really angry at his lack of playing time. The odd game here and there is simply not enough. Had several opportunities last season and some of this where we could have played him but haven't. Really hope he gets his career back on track however sadly it's looking more and more likely it won't be with us however I wish it was.
Its like Mickhi situation all over again although even Mourinho gave him a chance after few months. With VDB it's been going a whole year already.
He played fewer minutes than both Kleberson and Djemba and Djemba in the league if you compare their first seasons.
It's a strange situation and i think its because Ole is so conservative.
It's nonsense to say he's miles better than Fred or McTominay. He's done nothing to show he's good enough, whereas they are tried and tested PL players with 200 games between them. We know what we are getting with them and we cant throw an unknown player into a Premier League midfield. I understand why he doesn't play big games or takes gametime from them. They are well above him in the pecking order and rightly so.
However, he can never show he's good enough if he doesn't get the chance. When those two are not playing, he needs to play. He should be getting a good chunk of Matic's minutes.
It's nonsense to say he's miles better than Fred or McTominay. He's done nothing to show he's good enough, whereas they are tried and tested PL players with 200 games between them. We know what we are getting with them and we cant throw an unknown player into a Premier League midfield. I understand why he doesn't play big games or takes gametime from them. They are well above him in the pecking order and rightly so.
However, he can never show he's good enough if he doesn't get the chance. When those two are not playing, he needs to play. He should be getting a good chunk of Matic's minutes.
For me, I just think it doesn't matter if he plays 100 or 10,000 minutes here - he fundamentally doesn't fit.
He's not a defensive midfielder who sits in front of the backline and screens the CB's (like a Matic/Rice style); he's not an intercepting/tackler who's up and down the field (like Kante/Herrera/Gueye); he's not a central midfielder who can spray the ball around from deep (like a Jorginho) -- and even further up the pitch he's not a no.10 who dictates the flow of the game like Bruno does.
The most comparable midfielder I see to van De Beek is honestly his failed predecessor - Davy Klaassen. Or, maybe, Aaron Ramsey at Arsenal. A midfielder who doesn't really have a set position and his best work is done off the ball; leaving that responsibility to others (Ziyech and Frenkie at Ajax) as he attempts to make penetrating runs in behind.
Where does he fit in our team with a skillset like that? He doesn't!
He's not a defensive midfielder who sits in front of the backline and screens the CB's (like a Matic/Rice style); he's not an intercepting/tackler who's up and down the field (like Kante/Herrera/Gueye); he's not a central midfielder who can spray the ball around from deep (like a Jorginho) -- and even further up the pitch he's not a no.10 who dictates the flow of the game like Bruno does.
The most comparable midfielder I see to van De Beek is honestly his failed predecessor - Davy Klaassen. Or, maybe, Aaron Ramsey at Arsenal. A midfielder who doesn't really have a set position and his best work is done off the ball; leaving that responsibility to others (Ziyech and Frenkie at Ajax) as he attempts to make penetrating runs in behind.
Where does he fit in our team with a skillset like that? He doesn't!
This is how I feel too.
In my opinion he got bought as our 2nd CAM as a back up to Bruno when Pogba looked like leaving but he didn't leave - so currently he is our 3rd CAM; his probable best position.
Ole still is trying to keep him because, well pogba is still looking like he is leaving but prefers to use Pogba whilst he is here because he is more creative for our forward line.
If this is how it should be then the likes of Vidic and Evra would never have a career at United. Evra played so bad that he got off at half time. We conceded 3 goals against Blackburn at Vidic debut with Vidic got destroyed by their striker.
But Ferguson keeps playing them for the next few games to show them that he have some trust in them. He took risks and got rewarded.
It's not even that. Ole should take risk to make United a better team. That's literally his job. If he can't take risks with VdB, then he should sell him and use the funds to buy another player he's comfortable taking risk with. Also I don't get that the notion that if VdB isn't better than McFred then he shouldn't play. As good as McFred has been playing them every match is madness, you'll only get tired players who's form will dropped at the end of the season. Rotation is needed, you need to keep the squad players match fit or they would not be ready when they get called upon.
At the end of the day, for me this is not about whether VdB got shafted by Ole. For me how Ole handled VdB situation is a microcosm of Ole managerial flaws.
Ole is a risk averse manager, so his team played like one. He wouldn't take risk at players who MIGHT perform better than what he has because he's content with what he has and can't bear the possibility of losing matches because he took that risks. Which probably explain why he only took risks when his team is down, you can't lose twice in one match, might as well do it.
He's to scared to change United style of play because he only know this one style that took him to second place last season.
The thing is you can't have a Manchester United manager who's afraid to take risks. There's no chance of improvement if this is the case
I fear that Sancho will go down this road too. He too a player who shines in a structured system like Donny, and has been utterly underwhelming so far.
He hasn't been as good as posters in here claim. Far from it. Versus West Ham in the Carabao he was okayish at best, but in here same claimed MOTM which is just bias.
If he was as good as he is made out to be, he would play. Ole has pressure on him to win matches, if he had a better CM he would play him.
The overrating he gets on here is purely bias and has no root in reality. It's Bailly all over again.
I don't dislike the guy, but from what I've seen he ain't any better than the once we've got and shouldn't be playing more than he already his.
Maybe he needs more time to adapt, Fred struggled with the same and got a bit better, maybe that's the case with Donny too.
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