Watch his play from ajax. He is very versatile and can play any mid position
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No he can't
Fred only looks good defensively on stats and that's because the way how he plays run like headless chicken and pressing everywhere result in lot of numbers of defensive cover and ground duels, in comparison to players who is more holding role. If you ask him to defend one on one or defend to protect the back four then he is worse than McTominay. You can see it how exposed he was when he was asked that role vs Wolves. McTominay and Donny looks better combination than with Fred imo. McTominay offers the physicality to cover Donny's physical weakness which something Fred doesn't have.
We can use this against teams with low blocks where mid is more focussed on attack and needs players arriving in box
Why not? He actually came out in an interview and said in this team his best position is a 6 or 8. Clearly he thinks he can play in a number of Midfield positions.
Donny is very much the Mulholland Drive of United players, a favourite player of Monocle readers and Patagonia clothing enthusiasts.
To be fair, I saw a few glimpses of talent there. Doesn't look like he's ready to command a place or solve any problems, but did okay. Still feels like the only dud we've bought in the last two or three years. Not bad considering the previous decade's mistakes.
I could say I've got a 15 inch nob, doesn't make it true.
He's clearly looking for minutes, at any cost. Declaring he is willing to play any positions is likely to increase his chances of getting minutes.
He will likely get minutes in midfield, but to say he can play any position in midfield is disingenuous and false. He's never going to be an out and out DM and he's shown nothing to suggest he could play box to box for 90 mins.
He'll likely fill the role of Herrera in that position, another that didn't excel at one particular position or role but would give us a different option in the middle.
Id like to see it for sure.
I think we should give him more chances on the double pivot role. I think his build up play in midfield is what we need at the moment.
Possibly, think it would leave us very exposed to the counter though.
Nahh, I like McT but he's nowhere near Fred in a defensive sense, he's easily at his best when he's a driving box to box midfielder, which is how he gets to play when paired with Fred. Perhaps that's an area of his game that will develop as he gets older but as of now, he doesn't offer much in defense. I'd also like to see him get more involved in play.
I think it would offer good balance and both players like to get heavily involved with the ball.
How is it baseless? he played a 4-4-2 at PSG, he's playing a 3-5-2/3/4/3 at Chelsea because it's what's best for the team.
At united he'd probably go with that formation in my opinion.
the role is clearly tailored for him as they don't use him anywhere that shows his weaknesses more. He's surrounded by 3 defenders and doesn't have to run which is his biggest issue. He can receive the ball and play his way out of it.
It doesn't matter if he's never played it before, plenty of players are able to play multiple roles. Maybe he just didn't get the chance as he was decent at box to box and DFJ was better at the base? It doesn't mean we can't try him there.
VDB literally said himself in the interview with Rio Ferdinand he can play the 6 role - so i'd take his opinion more.
For me on paper he has all the attributes to play that sort of position - he reminds me the most of an older Scholes who transitioned deeper. Obviously not up to that calibre but could fill a similar role which we've been missing a long time.
Both our current midfielder options are runners that are OK on the ball, but i'd like to see VDB in that area who is much better with ball control and a better weight of pass.
Sanchez was kept in the team regardless of form. He was given the right environment to show what he could do. His performances did not reward the trust shown. He was a dud.
it’s not often that you can say an opinion is wrong, but Saying that a player is a dud...a player that has never been trusted, a player who has never had game time in a first choice line up, a player who has never even been given back to back premiere league game time in 18 months at the club...is a wrong opinion.If he left the club tomorrow, the vast majority of all football fans would say DVB was not given a proper chance.
For example- Sancho has been given more consistent Premiere League game time in two months, with our first choice lineup around him, than Donny has had in 18 months. By your reasoning, Sancho is looking like a dud? He has already got more consistent game time than Donny- Donny never given that trust or that chance.
Given him minutes consistently- only then will we know whether or not he was a flop. Either way, Ole has made a balls of this signing. It’s on him. If he is sold- we will never truly know what type of player we had, if he stays, he is wasting away on the bench and Ole has ruined two years of the kids life with broken promises, if he is miraculously given game time and he comes good- then what the fuk has Ole been doing persisting with McFred and playing zombie football for 18 months?
No matter which way you look at it, Ole has made a complete balls of this one!
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Pogba. Pogba Donny
Donny Fred Or Fred
Might be a good lineup when resting Bruno too. Hopefully the lad gets some real chances anyway. I don’t know what our fans expect from a midfielder these days but keeping the tempo high and playing probing passes into the forwards while remaining defensively solid is the name of the game currently. I definitely think he can do it!
Oh nice it seems you know more about what Donny can do than Donny and the coaching staff.
Just because you said its false, that is a fact? There is also nothing to suggest he can't other than the fact he keeps getting substituted through no fault of his own.
Where did I say anything was a fact?
The fact he gets substituted and barely starts though suggests he can't do the things he claims he can do, at least to the standard the club expects. How is that no fault of his own? He underperforms and doesn't deserve to usurp any other midfielders based on what he's shown in an United shirt.
It's always the same on the Caf. Player doesn't play, he starts gaining almost mythical status among a staunch section of supporters, he never lives up to this status, eventually gets sold or becomes a bit part player. Donny is well into that cycle now. Next we'll be being told by certain posters he can do a job in net.
When he consistently performs for over a dozen games in a position he will deserve credit. Until then all the strawmen in the world isn't going to help get him get starts.
I also suggest you go back and watch the interview with Rio. He says he feels he can do a job as a 6, he never says the coaches agree with that assessment. People have conflated that with him saying he does sessions with Carrick so it must mean he's being groomed as a deep lying midfielder.
@romufc
From about 23 mins. Talks about his thoughts on best position. After a bit of humming and ahhing he says an 8/6. At no point does he say the coaches agree.
From about 23 mins. Talks about his thoughts on best position. After a bit of humming and ahhing he says an 8/6. At no point does he say the coaches agree.
Fred defensive in a defensive sense is worse than McTominay IMO. Who's better in pressing especially in the opposition half then Fred because Fred is quicker and more mobile so you want him to defend in opposition half to caught them off guard when they play from the back. However, McTominay is better in one on one and defending in our own half because he is not clumsy like Fred and he has physical strength to overpower player which is what you are looking for in defensive aspect to play next to Donny. Bloody Trincao bullied Fred one on one physically not long ago.
Not sure the club really has standards in midfield from the shit show we've seen some of them play.
The biggest problem we have at the club is that different players are allowed different leeway and it's dumb to argue that some players can't make it when Ole literally let's Fred/Pogba/Matic/Rashford being a total no-show in some games while VDB is held to a much shorter leash.
Firstly, I think a player needs a run of games to gain confidence, Ole giving him 45 mins every 4 weeks isnt going to help.
I don't think many on the caf actually thinks he is our long term 6 or 8, we all know we need a very good CM, that was the issue we didnt fix this window.
What I do think however; the way we have changed approach in games where we look to dominate, he is a better option to play alongside a 6 like Matic or McTominay because he actually makes space and gets into space which can help us transition from CB to CAM.
We have not seen him play in a PL game with our starting 11 enough to say he is worse than Fred, who is a car crash in there at the moment.
I have watched it, neither does he say the coaches disagree with him as well. He also mentioned, he's played all roles for Ajax.
Is that not more a damming indictment of Donny as a midfielder then?
I think he is one of the current United players that could really benefit from a loan spell. Where he can start week in week out with zero expectation and pressure. This would give him time to adapt to the English game which to me he clearly needs. While I do think his passing can sometimes be quite decent, I don't see him starting ahead of either of McFred in any game of any value. Just a thought.
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So you're passing your opinion as fact despite trying to imply that's what I was doing. Gotcha.
He has shown nothing to suggest he can play role you so desperately want him to. Could he? Possibly. But all available evidence suggest not.
Just to clarify before you try and put words in my mouth, I hope he does establish himself in the first team. But these calls to have him as arguably our most important midfielder are premature at best, if not straight up delusional at this point.
I like his performance vs West Ham. I think his buildup play, short pass and workrate is what we need in midfield.
That's more on Ole because he doesn't pick by merit like he always claims.
I've hardly been Ole's biggest fan, but this is just pure conjecture.
One thing I will credit Ole for during his tenure is that, for the most part, he rewards form. There are some exceptions of course (like sticking with Martial for so long last year).
He basically has his favourite 11 and sticks to them as much as possible if they're not injured/banned.
He was the best player on the pitch on Wednesday, aside from that one moment they scored from. Up against a second string mid table midfield though.
Compared with either of McFred he is more intelligent, less rash and far more comfortable with the ball at his feet. His pace and accuracy of passing is also miles better. What he lacks in is physicality and defensive positioning.
Compared with either of McFred he is more intelligent, less rash and far more comfortable with the ball at his feet. His pace and accuracy of passing is also miles better. What he lacks in is physicality and defensive positioning.
Actually if you see the language used, you would understand that I am not passing it as a fact. I clearly mention "I think" which means that is my opinion not a fact.
I am not desperate for him to play any role, I merely want Ole to try him out alongside another midfielder. Also, It is clear you haven't been watching because in pre season, Vs Everton him and Matic worked well we controlled the midfield. Against West Ham as well, he had a good game which is evidence he can play there in a 2.
It isn't y fault you want to ignore those games and focus on games he doesnt play. Again, no one is saying he is our most important midfielder, what fans want to see is him given a go in the midfield position because Fred has been so poor.
What don't you get about that? If someone says play Donny in midfield because Fred has been crap, it means we think he is the most important player?
You're using a preseason friendly as evidence
. Fecking Andreas ends up looking like a world beater every summer.I have no idea what your last paragraph is supposed to mean either.
I don't think great players often sit on the bench overlooked by their managers for 18-months. I hope he comes good and offers the team something, but he's been working at United for quite some time and hasn't shown his manager enough to get ahead of the 'zombies' in front of him. So yeah, he's a dud so far. It could be poor scouting or it could be we're deliberately holding back a diamond of a player for no reason, but either way, dud. My hope is that he'll break through and show his worth, maybe he'll be sold to Real Madrid and start racking up those Ballon d'Or nominations. Who knows? Right now, the lad is a class-a dud.
difficult for him, being drafted in here and there, the odd sub appearance. As fans we still don't know enough about him as a Utd player. To me he always looks decent when he plays, keeps possession well, which we are crying out for in mid. He showed in the cup game he can play that defence splitting pass as well. I'd like to see him get a run of consecutive games. Of course that won't happen, our next batch iof league games are Everton (facht), Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs and City. Ole will revert to type with McFred with Matic as sub for either.
I'd absolutely start him against Villa tomorrow. Thought he played well in the week. Had one or two moments where he got caught on the ball, but considering the other option is Fred, I'd start him. He's certainly better on the ball.
That’s how I feel, someone consistent who can accurately keep the ball moving feels important to me.
Donny is technically a better footballer than both Fred and McT. He is as good as Matic. But Matic is old.
He was brought in to replace Pogba. But he changed his mind and stayed.
Ole should have used Donny to back up Pogba and Bruno. Not just bring him on as a sub with a few minutes here and there.
Bruno clearly needed a rest in some games but refused to be rested. This is one of Ole's weaknesses.
He is not ruthless enough.
It is clear he can play as an attacking midfielder. But he can adapt and play deeper.
If Ole uses Donny, Fred, McT and Matic properly we can win the title.
He was brought in to replace Pogba. But he changed his mind and stayed.
Ole should have used Donny to back up Pogba and Bruno. Not just bring him on as a sub with a few minutes here and there.
Bruno clearly needed a rest in some games but refused to be rested. This is one of Ole's weaknesses.
He is not ruthless enough.
It is clear he can play as an attacking midfielder. But he can adapt and play deeper.
If Ole uses Donny, Fred, McT and Matic properly we can win the title.
The way he keeps the ball under pressure and how smart he is with the ball is also something we need. Fred just chokes and gives the ball away when he's pressed.
That is hardly high praise. He's listed about 6 position he can play. If he were the saviour of our midfield many seem to think he could be, why isn't able stake his claim when given the opportunity? He started to look like a product of Ajax academy, a jack of all trades, master of none. Blind was similar. In a less competitive league he'd probably make a position in that list his own.
As it stands I only ever see him as cover for various positions, very much like his Dutch compatriot
This.
But we all know Ole will start Fred against Villa. There will be no McDonny.
I think he's shown enough lately to be in Ole's plans, hopefully we'll see more of him over the coming weeks and months because he offers something that neither Fred or McTominay do.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, I think Fred is better in every sense other than physical when it comes to defending.
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