There is life outside Ole supporters vs Ole outers world you know. People can talk about VDB without being one of the mentioned....
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He was decent against Arsenal and Chelsea defensively: he made the most tackles in both games.
But against Chelsea, he attempted fewer passes than De Gea. A central midfielder with fewer passes than a goalkeeper. That's the biggest issue with McT and why many of us think Donny couldn't do a worse job and deserves the chance to prove it.
I do accept that McT can be useful when defending set pieces because he's tall and strong. But he hasn't really justified his place in the team this season. Or last season, really. It's just everyone accepts he'll play even when he's terrible so no one says 'he should prove himself, he should grab his opportunities'.
From the post match thread:
Not to mention that Ole did mismanage VdB quite badly, and we are having these debates about a quality player because he has never been given a run of games. That's all.
I dont understand what are you trying to prove with these quotes? The opposite of what I wrote?
Had a feeling he was overly eager to impress hence he made risky passes when there were safer options.
Other than that he was alright, playing in the midfield with Juan Mata seems something kids would do for fun on fifa, and he did good. Wasn't afraid to put in tackle, made himself open to passes and didn't hide behind oppo players like some others midfielders like to do.
It's obvious he needs more minutes and game time and hope new manager gives him chance to prove himself.
Other than that he was alright, playing in the midfield with Juan Mata seems something kids would do for fun on fifa, and he did good. Wasn't afraid to put in tackle, made himself open to passes and didn't hide behind oppo players like some others midfielders like to do.
It's obvious he needs more minutes and game time and hope new manager gives him chance to prove himself.
I thought he wasn't bad. Looked up for creating turnovers. Surprised at the stick he's getting here.
Wasn't his best performance but wasn't awful either. Hard to make anything work really in such a mixed up side.
He was sold down the river by Matic for the goal. Why would you pass to a player in a tight area facing your own goal? he was unlucky that the guy unleashed a thunder kraken of a goal. It happens.
He was sold down the river by Matic for the goal. Why would you pass to a player in a tight area facing your own goal? he was unlucky that the guy unleashed a thunder kraken of a goal. It happens.
I had a look at your posting history and you're clearly a fierce Ole out. If you look at my posting history you'd see I'm kinda neutral. Tbh I don't care about both sides. I was only trying to explain the VDB phenomenon to another poster because he couldn't understand it. Btw you seem a bit too butthurt by my post, sorry if so.
Potentially, but then even if Matic did have a better passing option, DvB compounded the situation with a bit of a nothing pass. Rangnick mentioned that there were far too many passes 'into the first pressing line' in general, and I feel this is something DvB does on a regular basis. I don't recall too many situations were he plays long passes, or line-breaking forward passes.
Like all of our players at the moment, I think the fairest thing we can say to add balance is 'let's give them fair opportunity to be coached properly and be given clear instruction, and see who sinks and who swims'
Thought he did well considering he had Mata next to him and Matic behind him.
Can't believe his luck 
gets 4 minutes every second game, and when he gets a start in midfield he is partnered with JuanfeckinMata, semi-professional attacking midfielder.
He did well, made a mistake for the goal (was a bad decision to start with, the whole team got complacent) but overall I'm impressed with his (basic) defensive skills. He's also suffering from the same disease that Fred and McTominay and Pogba, meaning he can't play the deepest midfielder role effectively on a serious level. Definitely can't do it alone.
He's a better midfielder than McTominay off the ball, not by much but at least he tackles players (he's actually quite good at that) instead of running into them. I hope he finally gets a chance to prove himself, a chance like Fred, McTominay and Pogba have been given.
On the ball he just plays like a midfielder should, quickly passing it wide/between the lines. I see no issue here really, unless we're going to play McFred until we get second coming of Xavi, then van de Beek should be given more playing time in midfield.
gets 4 minutes every second game, and when he gets a start in midfield he is partnered with JuanfeckinMata, semi-professional attacking midfielder.He did well, made a mistake for the goal (was a bad decision to start with, the whole team got complacent) but overall I'm impressed with his (basic) defensive skills. He's also suffering from the same disease that Fred and McTominay and Pogba, meaning he can't play the deepest midfielder role effectively on a serious level. Definitely can't do it alone.
He's a better midfielder than McTominay off the ball, not by much but at least he tackles players (he's actually quite good at that) instead of running into them. I hope he finally gets a chance to prove himself, a chance like Fred, McTominay and Pogba have been given.
On the ball he just plays like a midfielder should, quickly passing it wide/between the lines. I see no issue here really, unless we're going to play McFred until we get second coming of Xavi, then van de Beek should be given more playing time in midfield.
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Judging from Rangnick post-match comments, he was less than impressed by VDB in a situation where we conceded.
Not sure if this has been said before but since he signed I've always thought he reminds me of slower Lingard, and I don't mean that in a negative way. Whilst jesse is quicker they both are not great dribblers, not great passers, not physical, best attributes are give and gos, finding space, have a good shot, etc so players that glue teams together.
In the cm position under ralf mct and fred are just way more physical, quicker, better defensively and the passing ranges are not that much worse, matic and pogba are also a better option there than donny . In the 10s bruno, sancho and pogba are just on another level to him, I'd also have mason in that 10 role over him.
All in all he is just an average dutch player with a decent touch who in the right team can be used very well. Similarly to how I think if lingard played for ajax in donnys position hed probably do very good. But both are not good enough for this team and our style of football (although if Jesse pulled his finger out I think he'd have more of a chance of being successful under ralf than donny just due to the fact hes a better presser and quicker).
In the cm position under ralf mct and fred are just way more physical, quicker, better defensively and the passing ranges are not that much worse, matic and pogba are also a better option there than donny . In the 10s bruno, sancho and pogba are just on another level to him, I'd also have mason in that 10 role over him.
All in all he is just an average dutch player with a decent touch who in the right team can be used very well. Similarly to how I think if lingard played for ajax in donnys position hed probably do very good. But both are not good enough for this team and our style of football (although if Jesse pulled his finger out I think he'd have more of a chance of being successful under ralf than donny just due to the fact hes a better presser and quicker).
But seems there are those who criticized VdB was happy that he play bad because it means Ole was right about him
Considering the circumstances (the team he played in, lack of minutes, etc.) he did fairly well. I thought that his defensive display was very good (and very often alone in midfield to defend). People of course will criticize him for the mistake which was annoying but AWB was also partly at fault.
IMO, I have seen more positives than from McT - better defensively, the much better passer. I doubt that he will start the next game, even though McT is very poor
IMO, I have seen more positives than from McT - better defensively, the much better passer. I doubt that he will start the next game, even though McT is very poor
Of course he was, I'm sure we all are because either he or Matic could've just got rid, but we overdid it and deservedly paid the price. That said, apart from that incident, he did really well - I honestly didn't think he could seriously tackle, but he put in a very good shift in an unexpected position, paired with Mata no less.
Rangnick looks like the sort that will go over all the details in the game, and I reckon he'll see a lot to impress him with Donny's forward passing and control of the ball.
Would be interesting to know the content of the telling off he got from the manager yesterday.
Quite crazy how Maguire / Wan Bissaka get talked down for costing 80 million, 50 million respectively -
But Van de Beek can cost 40 million and yet, it means shit all to anybody when seeing how he performs.
His best performance has come as a sub (debut vs CP and recently vs Watford).
Everytime he has started, it's been an an average to below average performance - the only hope I have for him is if Ten Hag becomes our manager and uses VDB the way we saw him more play at Ajax - as a Raumdeuter.
But Van de Beek can cost 40 million and yet, it means shit all to anybody when seeing how he performs.
His best performance has come as a sub (debut vs CP and recently vs Watford).
Everytime he has started, it's been an an average to below average performance - the only hope I have for him is if Ten Hag becomes our manager and uses VDB the way we saw him more play at Ajax - as a Raumdeuter.
I think most people assume that his average performances might improve if he was given a run of games, it is hard to always perform at your best when you only start 1 game a month.
If he can only really play one very specific role well in football, and added to that he needs a few top players beside him to help him fulfill that very specific role... then you just got to admit that he isn't very good. He is just ok.
The Dutch Pogba
I watched the second half. We were bad but he was alright? He tackled well and passed accurately
That's pretty much what I think of him. Not a really really bad player like Pereira, God bless the lad. But not a really good player either. Average is the word imo. He is not good enough for us especially if our aim is to be a top team. In fact, I don't think any of our midfielders is good enough either.
However I'd rather keep Fred for his energy, McT as a backup and because he's a homegrown. You'd need some for the homegrown slot in the CL registration. I don't think we'd fetch any big money for McT anyway so we should cash VDB in if possible. Then use that money to buy a real DM we desperately need. I'm tired of us trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Hope Rangnick would think the same.
He's played well for us in a normal central midfield role at times as well as AM for Ajax. Being in and out of the team and his own consistency is the issue.
I agree with you, but the same is true for McTominay and that's his competition.
Same people saying Henderson isn't good enough should realize his competition is coinflip Dave and not Neuer.
I think VDB could be a good backup in multiple positions (his competition being the likes of Lingard and McTominay there), but if he wants genuine first team football he doesn't deserve it and needs to be sold.
Aside from the error he was OK. I' just not a fan of him though. Never rated him. He disappears far too often and is too much of a specialist.
This is a very Trump-ish statement! Creating your own reality to fit your view.
Donny wasnt great at all, he was OK and had a fault in the goal. A very 5,5/10 performance.
I think nearly all player ratings I've read after the game has given him either a 5 or a 6, and I agree with that.
And all of our midfield subs was in the 89min. Ralf wanted the backup players to get match fitness. We had no senior players to sub him with either.... if it was an important game, he wouldn't start.
Eh? What a weird post.
That’s a pity because I think McT is the most complementary partner for him.
Rangnick himself said it was an error playing the ball to him, a 'pressing invitation'. Yes DVB was the last pass so it looks bad on him, but it was a hospital pass by Matic who should have cleared the ball out of the danger area.
To be fair with such a mixed up side it was no wonder we made a few silly mistakes against a side desperate to win.
Agreed.
Due to our midfield issues, McTominay doesn't need to be world class to start for us. He just needs to perform better than Donny in that sitting position, which he has done. There's still doubts as to whether Donny can play in one of the two central midfield positions. If he can't then he needs to go as he's not going to get regular games playing further forward.
Fixed it for you
Donny had an average game, no better than what McTominay has been doing.
I was told by many he should start of McTominay in the PL, what a joke.
I was told by many he should start of McTominay in the PL, what a joke.
You see something you want to see.
I actually fail to see what Donny could have done there. He had his back against the opposition, he was in the vicinity of two Young Boys players and the nearest player was AWB, I think, who was hiding from the ball. How is he supposed to clear it? Matic put him in an impossible situation when he should have just cleared it.
You can't be serious. What has McTominay done in this season or in any season in general to deserve a starting place? We're talking about a guy that on average has less passing per game than those of strikers. Even in this game Donny has done far more than him with a lineup of youngsters and Mata as his midfield partner. I'm sorry, but anyone who says that McTominay has deserved a starting spot over Donny is utterly clueless.
McTominay gets on the ball half as much as DVB did last night, and wins the ball less than he did too.
He was ordinary last night but very hard to criticise any player from last night given it was such a disjointed team and lots of changes in game
No he hasn't, if Donny is average in midfield than for sure McTominay has been below average to whatever standard we use for evaluation.
Plus "McTominay" and "sitting" just doesn't sound right, both are not the Deep Lying Midfielders.
Smashed into him aswell btw
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