[SemiPro]

Almost all of his passes connected?

Paired with Mata and you're holding it against him for poor defensive positioning? Come on, man. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeiit.

He misplaced 12 passes which was more than anyone else in the team. One of those led to us conceding.

Rangnick also just spoke in his post match interview about how he told the players before the game not to pass into the oppositions first line of pressing which is exactly what VDB was doing.

 

[spiriticon]

DVB deserves no free rides. He's not a 5 time Ballon D'or winner who we should shape our team around.

He needs to fight for every chance with whatever teammates he has to play with. If he can't express himself and control a game in midfield vs a totally shite Young Boys, he'll not be starting vs Liverpool that's for sure.

 

[JG3001]

But you can't say 'regardless of McT' when it's him who plays in that position and regularly has very little impact with very little involvement.

I'm all for signing top class CMs to make the problem moot but until then saying Donny isn't viable but McTominay is continues tobe baffling.

This is where I’m confused as well, midfield needs to be upgraded in any case, but McTominay has generally been a passenger this season.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

VDB is a class player but deeply out of form. He hasn’t played any serious football in 2 seasons. Today he played his first full game since WWII, glad for him.

 

[Bwuk]

Terrible today. If McTominay had performed like that he’d be slaughtered.

 

[Idxomer]

AWB had a much bigger hand in the goal than VDB.

That said, he just lacks the dynamism to play that role in midfield.

 

[Bobski]

But you can't say 'regardless of McT' when it's him who plays in that position and regularly has very little impact with very little involvement.

I'm all for signing top class CMs to make the problem moot but until then saying Donny isn't viable but McTominay is continues tobe baffling.

Scott for all his limitations gives running power, physical strength and he is very good in the air, allows him to drop into defense as an auxiliary CB, defend threats at set pieces, gives some tactical flexibility, if you want to go to a 3 he can drop in, if you need him to go box to box he can. His technique is limited, does strike a ball nicely, and can clip a ball to the wings but his short passing game is clearly inferior to Donny.

I am not a fan of MCT, we absolutely need an upgrade but Donny is not the man, it is not his position and him as the defensive shield in front of Maguire could absolutely be worse than MCT.

 

[Denis79]

Dissapointing tonight, he's not taking his chances.

 

[acnumber9]

How many real chances has he gotten? I mean that honestly. Tonight he played in a beyond second team. How many chances would you say he has gotten in our 'first' 11? If we were happy with our midfield then I would say he deserves what he has gotten (like Veron did), but the fact that we aren't means he deserves as many chances as Fred and McTominay have had with the first team. Do you think he has had that?

His problem is that he isn’t really a defensive midfielder and he is a long way behind Bruno. Even if Bruno was to be dropped, VDB isn’t as good as Pogba and an argument could be made for Lingard as well. If he can’t do the defensive side he’s not going to play. He was signed as a replacement for Pereira and we should’ve been able to do that for a lot less than £40m.

 

[KingCavani]

Why are people saying this? McTominay has put these kinds of performances every game and he's not taken even the least amount of criticism for it. Fred is the one that generally gets the stick even though he is far more useful than McTominay.

Laughable. He’s the most ridiculed player in the squad. Go read his thread.

 

[kidbob]

Can I honestly ask a simple question considering that most of us don't think Fred and McTominay are good enough. So disregard tonight (with the youth team and players you all want gone outside of Henderson and Shaw) do you honestly believe that DVB has been given enough chances to play in our first 11 to prove if is good enough?

Personally I believe he hasn't had enough chances in that regard but I would love to hear the dissenting voices. And I'm talking about what you think is our best team? For example how many minutes have him and Bruno shared on a pitch together in the last 3 years?

 

[tomaldinho1]

VDB is a class player but deeply out of form. He hasn’t played any serious football in 2 seasons. Today he played his first full game since WWII, glad for him.

 

[KingCavani]

Mct hasn't been anywhere near involved in a game this season except Leeds. He had 30 odd touches the other day ffs

Oh my god. This is where we are now. Judging players by touches of the ball.

AWB had the second most touches today and there are fans on here celebrating his injury.

VDB was poor. No point in hogging possession to do nothing with it. If anything this highlights how unsuited to Ralf’s team he is. Nothing direct, no risks. Just safe and sideways. McTominay gets slated for the same but at least he knows his limitations and plays his role accordingly.

 

[edgecutter]

Hard to judge him with so many changes, thought he was alright in the first and disappeared in the second (who didn't).

 

[kidbob]

His problem is that he isn’t really a defensive midfielder and he is a long way behind Bruno. Even if Bruno was to be dropped, VDB isn’t as good as Pogba and an argument could be made for Lingard as well. If he can’t do the defensive side he’s not going to play. He was signed as a replacement for Pereira and we should’ve been able to do that for a lot less than £40m.

I see your point in terms of under Ole but to be honest I think VDB showed enough tonight in terms of winning the ball back and pressures and obviously being better on the ball than Scott to say that in Ralf's new 422 that he could be beside Fred. I actually thought he was better defensively than Scott (even though I like McTominay). My counter point would be that Donny has never had the same amount of games on the first team while playing along the best payers we have to prove himslef in that system. For me he is better defensively and way better on the ball than Scot but for some reason we never gave him that chance. I mean tonight was a mess of players that never played together.

Basically if we were all happy with our midfield I'd say feck Donny but the fact that we aren't then I don't think he's been given the same chance as Fred and McTominay, despite him being the more proven football player with Ajax.

Edit; I think Pogba is one of the most talented players in the World but I unfortunately doubt he has the effort. I hope he does because if Ralf can get Pogba firing then feck VDB.

 

[city-puma]

Can I honestly ask a simple question considering that most of us don't think Fred and McTominay are good enough. So disregard tonight (with the youth team and players you all want gone outside of Henderson and Shaw) do you honestly believe that DVB has been given enough chances to play in our first 11 to prove if is good enough?

Personally I believe he hasn't had enough chances in that regard but I would love to hear the dissenting voices. And I'm talking about what you think is our best team? For example how many minutes have him and Bruno shared on a pitch together in the last 3 years?

Why do you think “most”?!

 

[tomaldinho1]

Can I honestly ask a simple question considering that most of us don't think Fred and McTominay are good enough. So disregard tonight (with the youth team and players you all want gone outside of Henderson and Shaw) do you honestly believe that DVB has been given enough chances to play in our first 11 to prove if is good enough?

Personally I believe he hasn't had enough chances in that regard but I would love to hear the dissenting voices. And I'm talking about what you think is our best team? For example how many minutes have him and Bruno shared on a pitch together in the last 3 years?

Sadly VdB became this weird weapon to use against Ole and so you'll find very little logic in a lot of what people are saying, there are some vocal and extreme camps on him and they just want to be 'right'.

In answer to your question, we still have no idea how he'd play in a two because he played with fecking Mata (genuinely just let that sink in) in a team of kids and in his first proper game as the poster above succinctly put it, since WWII, so of course he has not had enough chances. For me Fred is 1st name on the team sheet for the deepest two and then I'd definitely go for VdB over McT purely because we are going to have to keep the ball better in this system otherwise we'll gas by half tie every game. Maybe RR will play McT in games where we expect to not have so much ball and swap Donny in for games against weaker teams..maybe he'll just bin them both off for Haidara next month

Truth is McT has had enough game time, I actually don't hate him as a player and I think he can/will improve a lot but he could be upgraded quite quickly as it stands. VdB we simply don't know.

 

[Devil may care]

Partly to blame for the goal but I thought he had a decent game overall both on and off the ball, especially given Mata was his partner and out of gas 20 minutes in.

 

[Blood Mage]

#OleWasRight

 

[kidbob]

Why do you think “most”?!

I'm simply going off the general feeling of this forum that I interpret. To be honest I love Fred and I think Scott is an important squad player but I think the gerneral feeling on here is that central midfield is our problem. And the stats will show that VDB has nowhere near the chances that the other 2 have.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

We all know how shite McTominay is so you would expect Donny to step up but everything from him today was so slow and weak. It was like watching Tom Cleverley in a slow mo. Unfortunately still showed absolutely nothing but one promising game to be good enough for us.

 

[horsechoker]

#OleWasRight

#RehireOle

 

[tomaldinho1]

#RehireOle

Flight tracker from Norway to Manchester

 

[kidbob]

Sadly VdB became this weird weapon to use against Ole and so you'll find very little logic in a lot of what people are saying, there are some vocal and extreme camps on him and they just want to be 'right'.

In answer to your question, we still have no idea how he'd play in a two because he played with fecking Mata (genuinely just let that sink in) in a team of kids and in his first proper game as the poster above succinctly put it, since WWII, so of course he has not had enough chances. For me Fred is 1st name on the team sheet for the deepest two and then I'd definitely go for VdB over McT purely because we are going to have to keep the ball better in this system otherwise we'll gas by half tie every game. Maybe RR will play McT in games where we expect to not have so much ball and swap Donny in for games against weaker teams..maybe he'll just bin them both off for Haidara next month

Truth is McT has had enough game time, I actually don't hate him as a player and I think he can/will improve a lot but he could be upgraded quite quickly as it stands. VdB we simply don't know.

You have literally spoken my mind mate. Like you said I'll judge Donny when he has played as much with the 1st team as Scot and Fred. And like you I love Fred and I think that under Ralf that McTominay can become a real great squad player. I just hate the fans writing Donny off when he is the one in the sqaud that has never had a run of games in the first team. I mean its stupidly clear he has the talent and ability.

 

[arnie_ni]

Oh my god. This is where we are now. Judging players by touches of the ball.

AWB had the second most touches today and there are fans on here celebrating his injury.

VDB was poor. No point in hogging possession to do nothing with it. If anything this highlights how unsuited to Ralf’s team he is. Nothing direct, no risks. Just safe and sideways. McTominay gets slated for the same but at least he knows his limitations and plays his role accordingly.

Playing with mct at the moment is like playing with 10 and half players. Go and read his thread, we all see it, he hides in possession.

My point on touches shows how donny knows where to be and where to stand to get a pass and help the team out, as does Fred.

McTominay doesn't and its a massive issue. As I said he hides and it may not be on purpose, I just don't think he has the positional sense and awareness to know where to be.

I'll repeat, give donny the next run of games up to Xmas and if he doesn't look like he can play there, I'd look to sell in January.

 

[RonaldoVII]

The hype he's had whilst on the bench has been madness considering he's largely been poor at best when he's played.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Donny can not be judged against McTominay, end of. He has not had the games, minutes nor the chances to play enough times within a proper team, to be judged properly.
You can only say he's not good enough based on the fact he's not being given those chances. You can't judge him on the actual performances because he hasn't had enough of them. I'm not even sure he's had two in a row.

 

[#07]

Can I honestly ask a simple question considering that most of us don't think Fred and McTominay are good enough. So disregard tonight (with the youth team and players you all want gone outside of Henderson and Shaw) do you honestly believe that DVB has been given enough chances to play in our first 11 to prove if is good enough?

Personally I believe he hasn't had enough chances in that regard but I would love to hear the dissenting voices. And I'm talking about what you think is our best team? For example how many minutes have him and Bruno shared on a pitch together in the last 3 years?

None of us watch training, so it's hard to say. You have to believe if he was amazing at Carrington he'd be getting more games. Let's see what happens under Rangnick. But, honestly, I think we made a mistake buying Van de Beek.

I am not trying to have a pop at Ole. But, looking back on his time, while the squad improved there were some strange decisions e.g. if you ever want to be more than a low block team why buy a right back that can't attack? Van de Beek's signing may fall into that.

For sure, we needed an upgrade in midfield. Still do. But was Van de Beek the ideal player to fit that bill? We needed a new Carrick but went and bought a new Kagawa. It's another indictment of our squad planning.

 

[Robindinho]

I'd still like to see him given a proper chance in the first Xl and a run of a few games. Hardly fair to fully judge him until then.

Think he and Fred would make a good pair.

 

[VidaRed]

We all know how shite McTominay is so you would expect Donny to step up but everything from him today was so slow and weak. It was like watching Tom Cleverley in a slow mo. Unfortunately still showed absolutely nothing but one promising game to be good enough for us.

McTominay would have been worse in todays team.

Donny had to play with mata and lingard and both of them had a shit game.

 

[HailtotheKing]

None of us watch training, so it's hard to say. You have to believe if he was amazing at Carrington he'd be getting more games. Let's see what happens under Rangnick. But, honestly, I think we made a mistake buying Van de Beek.

I am not trying to have a pop at Ole. But, looking back on his time, while the squad improved there were some strange decisions e.g. if you ever want to be more than a low block team why buy a right back that can't attack? Van de Beek's signing may fall into that.

For sure, we needed an upgrade in midfield. Still do. But was Van de Beek the ideal player to fit that bill? We needed a new Carrick but went and bought a new Kagawa. It's another indictment of our squad planning.

Why buy a right back that can't attack and a central defender with no pace? They were obvious signings but they weren't the smartest. Although the fact AWB used to be a winger would suggest he could be better at attacking.

 

[RuudTom83]

His time at United will be remembered for Ole not playing him, for that reason alone he has made himself a bit of a cult hero and even has his own song celebrating him getting on the pitch.

But the truth is he isn’t good enough to force his way into the team every week. Which is fine, he can be a good squad player…but the amount of posters clamouring for his inclusion every match is a bit silly now.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Dissapointing tonight, he's not taking his chances.

What? All three of them?

 

[Newstyle]

This is getting a bit ridiculous. You prove yourself on the training ground, the sparse game time you get and your attitude. If you are up for it you’ll grab it. Why should we giving him more time on the pitch when he doesn’t take his chances?

 

[RooneyLegend]

Atleast he shows for the ball, Scotty McT doesn't even do that. Lets try him with Fred and see what comes out of it.

 

[CloneMC16]

He was given a pretty hard task. Being thrown into that team was always going to be hard. I'm not his biggest fan. There has been a huge cult following built around him, and I don't know why. I'm still unsure how much I can really take from this game. I think he was pretty average. He's not a #6. He did have to play next to Mata. Maybe he would have played better next to someone else. It also didn't help that the rest of the forward players (except Mason) were not doing well. He was horrendous for the goal. If Fred or McT does that, they're getting abuse from the majority of the fanbase.

I think he's going to leave in Jan. Unless RR drops Fred deeper and plays VDB ahead of him. I think that would be a terrible idea, due to Fred showing how much better he is further forward. He could also potentially try VDB as a #6 again with Fred ahead. I wouldn't mind seeing it once. He's not getting in the team before Bruno or Sancho. If the best he is offered is the bench for another 6 months, I think he will go. That would be fair enough.

He misplaced 12 passes which was more than anyone else in the team. One of those led to us conceding.

Rangnick also just spoke in his post match interview about how he told the players before the game not to pass into the oppositions first line of pressing which is exactly what VDB was doing.

He did, but he had the highest amount of passes in the team. He made 74 passes and 12 were off target. I don't think that's terrible. 84% pass completion is okay. The one we conceded from was really bad. RR was definitely not happy with that.

 

[VidaRed]

The hype he's had whilst on the bench has been madness considering he's largely been poor at best when he's played.

He has always played in 5 min cameos with the first team. Whenever he's played more or started is when the b side is out.

Today whenever he had the ball he had either mata or lingard nearby to pass to, mata is passed it and got regularly out muscled while lingard was flat footed and couldn't be arsed.

Donny will only be fairly judged when he plays consecutive games with the strongest xi.

 

[#07]

Why buy a right back that can't attack and a central defender with no pace? They were obvious signings but they weren't the smartest. Although the fact AWB used to be a winger would suggest he could be better at attacking.

If we really did assess 800 right backs before buying AWB we should have been aware of his limitations. Expecting him to attack well cos he was a winger as a kid, is like expecting McTominay to finish like Van Nistlerooy cos he used to be a forward in the juniors.

As you point out, United has a tendency to go for signings that make noise not sense. At no point over the past eight years has it felt like someone, somewhere, is thinking: 'This is the kind of football we wanna play and these are the types of players we need to get there.'

Van de Beek feels like a player who was available for a price we could afford and so we got him. Rather than thinking about how he might fit into any kind of system. The only thinking seems to have been to get him cos he's good.

 

[Denis79]

What? All three of them?

All three?

 

[MattofManchester]

Thought he did well in the first half, but was very poor in the second.