Quite funny all the games you mentioned we lost.
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Quite funny all the games you mentioned we lost.
All games with the 2nd string and one had an early red. I mean we drew last night, so Greenwood cant possible compete with Rashford who has been playing in wins!
We have to begin by acknowledging the calamitous error, but otherwise Donny was quite decent.
But that’s a bit like saying that apart from the gunshot to the Lincoln’s head, the play was quite enjoyable. It was a bad and consequential mistake. Still, it’s clear to anyone who wants to be honest about it that there’s a very solid midfielder in Donny van de Beek and we saw that again last night.
Nevertheless, we desperately need a defensive midfielder — which neither Donny nor Scotty are — to fill a gaping hole in the squad. It seems more likely than not that Pogba will be leaving United so there’s a job for Fred, Donny and McTominay to compete for. They each bring different attributes that Ralf can call upon depending on the situation. Donny is clearly the most skilled passer of the three, but Fred brings his unique style of football — for which I can’t think of a description, maybe a combination of Park and Anderson perhaps — and McTominay brings complete adherence to the manager’s instructions, although his ability on the ball is well below anything we’d ever expect of a Manchester United footballer.
But that’s a bit like saying that apart from the gunshot to the Lincoln’s head, the play was quite enjoyable. It was a bad and consequential mistake. Still, it’s clear to anyone who wants to be honest about it that there’s a very solid midfielder in Donny van de Beek and we saw that again last night.
Nevertheless, we desperately need a defensive midfielder — which neither Donny nor Scotty are — to fill a gaping hole in the squad. It seems more likely than not that Pogba will be leaving United so there’s a job for Fred, Donny and McTominay to compete for. They each bring different attributes that Ralf can call upon depending on the situation. Donny is clearly the most skilled passer of the three, but Fred brings his unique style of football — for which I can’t think of a description, maybe a combination of Park and Anderson perhaps — and McTominay brings complete adherence to the manager’s instructions, although his ability on the ball is well below anything we’d ever expect of a Manchester United footballer.
He wasn't just okay aganst Young Boys, we basically collapsed as a team the moment he was taken off and lost our entire control of the midfield. Yeah, we know he is the first one to get subbed. Hell might break loose before Fred or McTominay get subbed, but regardless, he was comfortably better than Fred and Pogba in that game. Against West Ham, I said it before, but it was the first time we had an actual control over a game and that was all down to DVB. Okay, we lost, but just like this game - we rotated the entire squad and DVB was paired once again with Mata who I can barely call a professional footballer these days. What fault did he have for being 2 goals down against Watford? What's more, you're acting like Watford was our first loss of the season. Our season was a disaster long before Donny played against Watford. May I remind you the utter spanking City and Liverpool gave us? Even against Wolves we could have been 5-0 at half-time if they knew how to finish.
Mata looked better than him in midfield? I don't know what game you've watched at this point. You're carrying some serious agenda against Donny if you actually believe that.
Sure, sell him in January. But we might suffer for it when he goes and plays amazingly for another team. He might also be a flop, we really can't be sure. The problem is that we've never given him a chance to understand one way or another if he is or isn't good enough. if he tears it up in a new team, what are we gonna do? Sit on our asses and wonder where things went wrong? At least as long as he's here we should try and see. IF it doesn't work out, it doesn't. It's not like we're going to suffer much by not having McTominay in midfield. Come on.
All games with the 2nd string and one had an early red. I mean we drew last night, so Greenwood cant possible compete with Rashford who has been playing in wins!
All I hear is excuses.
No idea what Greenwood has to do with it but okay. Greenwood was the only player on that pitch that looked a class above everyone else.
He couldn't have been any good, we drew, unlike Rashford who won his game.
What you call excuses is actually called context. Potato patota eh?
No. Greenwood has had plenty of good games in games we have won. Not sure you watched those games but I did. He was a regular last season, season before post lockdown.
If you read what the poster said, Donny has been amazing in games and went to list the games, most of them we lost and none of them we won.
I'm curious - how many times VDB has played with the first team? And for how many minutes?
So you decide how good a player is based on the result of games? If only Klopp and Pepp would've done that, they'd never would have bought players that got relegated and went on to win titles with them...
Did you know football is a team game?
Because whenever he plays we end up losing the game. For a player who gets minimal opportunity, once the opportunity comes you have to take it, its no point blaming everyone else when the player doesn't grab his opportunity.
Ill give you an example. Greenwood. He played in the league cup, Europa league when breaking through, he kept scoring goals which meant Ole had to play him, when he came into the PL side, he scored goals.
Its called taking your opportunity.
No, I decided a player is not good enough based on opportunities he has, and him not grabbing any of them.
I dont understand why you keep name dropping others with no substantiation? First Greenwood, I told you why he is good enough because he TAKES his opportunity. Now Klopp and Pep. I mean Pep dropped a £100m Grealish because he wasnt taking his opportunity. Pep dropped Bernado last year when he struggled and this season he got his chance and grabbed it means he starts games.
Klopp the same, he gives players the chance, they take it and there it is. When they don't take their opportunity like Minamino, they dont get game time. Its not rocket science.
No, really? Since when?
I always thought its an individual sport, wow this is mind boggling.
Greenwood had a horrendous dry spell last season to the point he was dropped by Ole after months in favour of Dan James. He scored what, 2 goals in that time span? Really took his chance...
Klopp and Pep buy players from teams that get relegated. They're highly successful coaches, so it's safe to assume they and their staff use their eyeballs (and actually useful stats) when assessing players instead of looking at win ratio, which is nonsensical because football is a team game.
What you're describing would be like looking at Norway's chess olympiad team results to conclude Carlson is a shit chess player. Chess olympiads are team games and Carlson is the world champion.
I'm name dropping other things? It's called an analogy.
To get into the team, you need to take your opportunity, Greenwood did that, he built his credit up, had a dry spell, manager stuck by him then dropped him. It works like that with most managers.
Who has Pep bought from relegated clubs? Again it has literally NO link to Donny.
Donny has never had a spell of good games, hardly puts a good 90 mins together.
The analogies have nothing to do with Donny, he didn't come from a relegated team?
Ake and Wijnaldum both got relegated.
If Klopp and Pepp would conclude based off their team's winrate that they're no good (like you're doing with VDB), they wouldn't have bought them.
The point of an analogy is that they're not directly about VDB, but show why you're thinking is flawed.
Yep, Ake is a regular starter at City.. good one.
I would also like you to go and have a look at Gini's stats for a relegated team before coming out with comparisons with Donny.
Donny has done nothing to show he deserves a start, he got given the opportunity yesterday, like others Lingard, Shaw, AWB, Matic, Greenwood. Apart from Greenwood, they were all crap and is the reason they probably wont start against Norwhich.
You know, this is funny. Baily was probably our best player last night, even more so than Greenwood. Henderson was also good. I don't see you advocating for their starting spots. You really think Maguire deserves to start over Baily based on performances?
Henderson was good but DDG has been very good this season too. At least it gives Ralf the headache knowing Henderson is knocking on the door. He didn't do his chances any harm, if Ralf choses to start Henderson based on his ability to play sweeper keeper, I wouldn't be against it.
Although, still feel DDG hasn't done much wrong to deserve to be dropped.
Bailly was good, but I dont see him starting over Maguire. Also, I am not advocating Greenwood starting on the weekend, I still think he is a bit lazy.
Yes goals for CMs is a very important metric. Casemiro must be complete shit! No goals, no trophies for club and country?
Yes goals for CMs is a very important metric. Casemiro must be complete shit! No goals, no trophies for club and country?
Casemeiro has no goals or trophies? HAahahahhahahahahahahah He won 3 CL in a row mate.
Are you comparing Donny to Casemeiro? one of the best DM's during that time?
Exactly, and it's not like he's playing badly too. He's labeled as "average" what seems to be enough to keep him away from the main team. And it's not like he's called out for bad performances, he's just "average" which seems to be enough to keep him on the bench etc.
The last time was good was when he actually played from the start, against West Ham. Clip.
When was the last time McTominay performed for us in a midfield 2? He's a starter so should be much easier to find an example.
There's no hype around van de Beek, people want to see some good football and there are bigger chances for that if van de Beek plays rather than McTominay.
He averages very low number of passes per minute (link), that's why people call him out on not making himself available for the pass (=hide from the ball). He runs around and makes a lot of tackles with his body, but that's pretty much all you get from Scott right now.
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Excuses. Casemiro won nothing last season, he's clearly finished.
Donny has more goals this season. He's obviously much better.
None of his performances at United was amazing...
Tbf, since Ole left, Maguire’s form has gradually picked up. Earlier, it’s dire really.
His job isn't to press. Or at least it hasn't been. You are aware he plays under instructions by the manager?
Pogba certainly doesn't work harder than Mctomminay because he presses more. That's the issue with Pogba. It's all forward for him so he will press more. Tracking runners? He just stands still.
Mctomminay doesn't have the skill set Pogba has that's undisputed but he does work harder.
Amazing compared to what this team normally puts up.
Even in his current "form" he still doesn't deserve to start over either Lindelof or Baily. Aside from a shity own goal Baily's been absolutely stellar. Lindelof has also been rock solid. Maguire is the weakest link in the defence, but despite that he constantly gets to start. See the double standards?
Debatable. McTominay, unfortunately, doesn't impress in anything. If he was a hard working CM, I'd have no problem with his sloppiness with the ball... aka Fred. But the problem is McTominay isn't good with or without the ball. If we're talking purely on performances this season, he doesn't deserve to start over Donny. Even in this game that people are calling Donny shit, he's shown more than McTominay this entire season with the exception of the Spurs game. And that's with playing Mata as his midfield partner.
Ralf will make excellent no6 from him.
was a very average display last night, made no impression and certainly not enough to force his way into the first 11, seems to not have any real qualities, just a bit meh at everything.
Absolutely. Fred and Van De Beek fighting for a spot next to a new deep midfielder with some McTominay minutes as the 4th guy.
Your bar must be pretty low if you call any of them amazing. DVB might improve a lot.
But we need (much) better performances from CM than those from him to become an elite team again.
No doubt. But we aren't gonna get those from McTominay, are we? Nobody is arguing here whether we should get a CM in the summer or not, that is an absolute priority regardless. The argument is whether he has deserved a start over McTominay and he definitely has. If he fails to capitalize on this, you're all within your right to slack him. In fact, I'd be the first one to do it, but he has never been given such a chance. 5-10 minute cameos every 5th game and then getting to start in a disjointed side with players who haven't played a competitive game yet doesn't count.
Even prime scholes would struggle playing with half arsed lingard who was flat footed more often than not and dinosaurs infront and behind him in mata and matic.
Amazing? Seriously?
He was decent, maybe good. I don't think this is a case of semantics to pull this up, you're massively overegging the pudding and once you do that it just appears that you have a massive blindspot.
Sure they are useful games to support an argument he might get more opportunities but dear me, let's not go OTT. Very little VDB has done has been amazing in a Man Utd shirt.
Aside from the mistake Donny wasn't bad but he wasn't particularly good either. During our better spell in the first half hour he impressed me with the defensive work he put in and I'm more convinced now that he's a viable option in those deeper midfield roles than I was before this game. On the other hand I think even his strongest supporters would have to admit that he's not shown anything this week that demonstrates he deserves the nod on Saturday.
Unfortunately, a lot of the conversation around his form has been and still is a proxy war in the larger Ole-era arguments, I hope that dies down as we move on as a fanbase and we can be a bit more level-headed and rational about some of our players going forward.
Unfortunately, a lot of the conversation around his form has been and still is a proxy war in the larger Ole-era arguments, I hope that dies down as we move on as a fanbase and we can be a bit more level-headed and rational about some of our players going forward.
This.
It appears that ole cultists are eager for donny to fail because if he succeeds then that's another black mark on ole.
That would be even worse for Ole, he spunked 40 mil on a player who was shite and made feck all appearances. What's more he was the only major signing that summer.
How is he supposed to have a spell of good games, he has never had a spell of games full stop.
Top flight football is like an arcade game. You need to score each game and your team has to win the game to proceed to the next round (get another game). If you're blonde.
Yeah fair play. I'm not saying he is in any way the answer. But in the meantime Scott is in awful form so we may as well give him the chance in the first team to see if he can do better. To be honest I'm of the opinion that we need 2 CM signings but we should be willing to experiment with what we have now as we can't make any signings for another month anyway.
Understandable as it is the lowest form of wit!
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