[Bebestation]

I feel more confident in deep areas with Fred and Mctominay than with VDB.

VDB is better trying to make runs and to score a goal than being deep protecting the defensive line.

 

[AltiUn]

Donny had an average game, no better than what McTominay has been doing.

I was told by many he should start of McTominay in the PL, what a joke.

I thought van de Beek was rubbish last night but McTominay completed 32 passes over a 90 minute game against Palace, that's absolutely shambolic. By comparison, the much maligned Fred doubled his passes.

 

[romufc]

I thought van de Beek was rubbish last night but McTominay completed 32 passes over a 90 minute game against Palace, that's absolutely shambolic. By comparison, the much maligned Fred doubled his passes.

Yeah, McTominay is not great, he hides but nothing I saw yesterday suggests to me that Donny is not miles ahead of McTominay in that position.

In fact apart from Greenwood, maybe Bailly no one really claimed their stake.

 

[AltiUn]

Yeah, McTominay is not great, he hides but nothing I saw yesterday suggests to me that Donny is not miles ahead of McTominay in that position.

In fact apart from Greenwood, maybe Bailly no one really claimed their stake.

I think what these last 2 performances have really told us is that we need a midfielder in January, if possible.

 

[romufc]

I think what these last 2 performances have really told us is that we need a midfielder in January, if possible.

Correct. I will agree with that.

 

[Borys]

Should just rename this thread to "McTominay is poor but van de Beek isn't very good either".
We're not moving away from McFred anytime soon if we use this approach of judging players by some odd games.
Nobody seems to remember how Fred played in his first half a season here. He was just lucky to get regular playing time.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

reading the thread tells you that this guy divides opinions.

he was meh, bad for the goal, and some ok stuff, nothing of note, and didn't expect much as the team that played was 2nd string and lacked understanding between the players

 

[Sviken]

Nobody seems to remember how Fred played in his first half a season here. He was just lucky to get regular playing time.

This is what surprises me. The way people are going here they would have sold Evra, Rio and Vidic almost immediately. They played horribly in their first few games and honestly not that good in their first season(s). Yet SAF knew their quality and persisted. We have given no chance to DVB, he's hardly ever played any games and when he has - it's either as a sub for 5 min or in a disjointed team full of bench players and youngsters and yet people are happily saying he's not good enough and should be sold.

I would be the first one to say he should be sold, like McTominay, if he was given a chance. But he hasn't been. And what pisses me off about it the most is because nobody is asking him to replace a prime Keane-Scholes midfield here, but simply McFred.

 

[SonyaCross493]

Time to go to Everton on loan in January lad.

Or maybe Barcelona will take him on loan in January. He will love playing Tiki Taka learning from Xavi.

He needs regular playing time so we can see the best of him. He won't get that right now at United as every manager we have had loves a bit of McFred over Donny for whatever reason.

I think Fred and Donny would work great together in the pivot 2 but I don't know if Rangnick has the balls to pull the trigger. He doesn't seem a manager who likes to make radical changes (that are needed at this football club) whether it's picking a new captain, dropping Maguire or splitting up McFred and playing Donny. I hope Poch or Ten Haag has more balls for the big decisions in the summer.

 

[VanDeBank]

That’s a pity because I think McT is the most complementary partner for him.

I agree with that. Fred's our best CM so it should only matter who complements him the best.
for me that's Matic for 60 mins and Pogba for the other 30. If I had to pick between Donny and McTominay to play the full 90, I'd pick the former.

Time to go to Everton on loan in January lad.

Or maybe Barcelona will take him on loan in January. He will love playing Tiki Taka learning from Xavi.

I don't see the point in a loan unless it's with an option to buy. If he wants first team football he's never getting that here. Bruno and Sancho are too good and we should buy a top DM that's much better than either Scott or Donny.

 

[RonaldoVII]

You can't be serious. What has McTominay done in this season or in any season in general to deserve a starting place? We're talking about a guy that on average has less passing per game than those of strikers. Even in this game Donny has done far more than him with a lineup of youngsters and Mata as his midfield partner. I'm sorry, but anyone who says that McTominay has deserved a starting spot over Donny is utterly clueless.

Donny's only decent performance was further forward and he's not displacing Bruno there. Last night again he failed to deceive. Sure, it was with a young/reserve team, but that didn't stop Greenwood shining.

No he hasn't, if Donny is average in midfield than for sure McTominay has been below average to whatever standard we use for evaluation.
Plus "McTominay" and "sitting" just doesn't sound right, both are not the Deep Lying Midfielders.

When has Donny performed for us in a midfield 2? Genuinely curious. Those who claim he has must have the bar set so low. McTominay has largely been poor this season but it'll be no surprise when Rangnick sticks with him over Donny.

I don't remember the hype being so big for someone who's offered so little.

 

[Tomuś]

Failed to make a claim. He's so easy to dribble past that makes anyone who think he should replace mcfred deluded.

 

[VanDeBank]

Donny's only decent performance was further forward and he's not displacing Bruno there. Last night again he failed to deceive. Sure, it was with a young/reserve team, but that didn't stop Greenwood shining.


When has Donny performed for us in a midfield 2? Genuinely curious. Those who claim he has must have the bar set so low. McTominay has largely been poor this season but it'll be no surprise when Rangnick sticks with him over Donny.

I don't remember someone the hype being so big for someone who's offered so little.

I thought Donny's performances against YB first half, first game, Wolves (last season?), West Ham cup, and even yesterday despite the blunder playing in the pivot, were on average slightly better than McTominay's performances across that same time span. Scotty's only really good game was Leeds I think.

 

[Relevated]

Good little 1-2s and 5 yard passes, which is exactly what Rangnick doesnt want as he mentioned yesterday.

 

[city-puma]

The early days for Fred was shambling. I remember Jose throw Fred and Peraira to play dual-pivot. They are completely destroyed by the opponents. That’s what happens when good players are playing out of position in the deeper role they seldom play in a very competitive, physical game.
With the injuries of the team, Fred eventually got the chance again for a run of games starting from the psg away game. Now, he never looks back and grows into the core of our engine room.
There is no reason VDB won’t replicate it. A lot have to take time and opportunity. Everyone needs patience.

 

[Blood Mage]

He was really poor, but then Juan Mata and Jesse Lingard were his midfield partners. It's too early to write him off but sadly I see no reason why Bruno, Fred or even McTominay should make way for him yet.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I actually fail to see what Donny could have done there. He had his back against the opposition, he was in the vicinity of two Young Boys players and the nearest player was AWB, I think, who was hiding from the ball. How is he supposed to clear it? Matic put him in an impossible situation when he should have just cleared it.

He could have turned with it and tried to dribble out, but that's easy to say from our angle with a full view of the pitch. It would have been very dangerous for him to try and turn in that area and get caught on the ball.

We seem to have a habit of over playing in defensive areas and i'm glad Rangnick has recognised that. WAY too many short passes that take too long to happen, even with Lindelof and Maguire we do the same thing.

 

[Ekeke]

Passing in his own half.. most the times.

He didn't do enough, costed us the goal too.

Yep he made a mistake.

Other than that twice as much workrate as McTominay on and off the ball.

 

[Phil]

I thought he was disappointing last night and really wasn't very positive but he's definitely a player who needs people moving and on his wavelength around him. Don't really know if we have those players in the squad and they definitely weren't playing last night if we do.

I do think he can afford us more control with the ball than someone like Mctominay, especially against a manic pressing team.

 

[Sviken]

When has Donny performed for us in a midfield 2? Genuinely curious. Those who claim he has must have the bar set so low. McTominay has largely been poor this season but it'll be no surprise when Rangnick sticks with him over Donny.

I don't remember the hype being so big for someone who's offered so little.

He was amazing against Watford, Young Boys (first game),West Ham in Carabao and Watford. Definitely deserves a chance from those games. Aside from that, he was better than McTominay's usual performances even in this game. He had one shitty sub appearance against a team I don't remember where he was subbed on for 2 mins and made a mstake of gifting the ball, but aside from that and yesterday's mistake, he has been solid whenever he's been given the chance (as rare as that is). Even in this game, playing with Mata in midfield and a bunch of players who have never even had a senior game, he had double the passes and touches of McTominay and equal amount of interceptions and tackles. On what ground doesn't he deserve to start over McTominay?

He could have turned with it and tried to dribble out, but that's easy to say from our angle with a full view of the pitch. It would have been very dangerous for him to try and turn in that area and get caught on the ball.

That would have been just as dangerous as what he did, especially when you try to dribble with your back turned to the opposing players.h

We seem to have a habit of over playing in defensive areas and i'm glad Rangnick has recognised that. WAY too many short passes that take too long to happen, even with Lindelof and Maguire we do the same thing.

Absolutely. There's a difference between playing out of the back and doing it nonsensically. This has been ingrained in the players by the staff because every player does it. When you have the ball in your box, clear it. It doesn't matter if you gift possession to the opponent, as long as it isn't anywhre near our box. Hopefully Rangnick fixes this.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Yep he made a mistake.

Other than that twice as much workrate as McTominay on and off the ball.

Wtf???

You can lay lots of faults at Mctomminay that I'd agree with eg. Lack of passing ability etc....but the one thing he doesn't do is hide. He works really hard for the team for me. That's one of his only qualities.

Strange take that.

 

[KingCavani]

McTominay gets on the ball half as much as DVB did last night, and wins the ball less than he did too.

Has anyone here ever actually played a game of organised football?

The idea that touches of the ball are reflective of whether a player is better/worse is just laughable. Yes Donny got the ball more largely because the plan was for him to be the one playing it out. This stuff is organised in advance - It was Scholes/Carrick/Matic for years who the defence would look to play it too. More recently for United it's been the full backs and Fred, hence why AWB got 87 touches yesterday and Shaw usually is among the leaders. It's not because they're so technically brilliant but because it's how the team is setup to play. McTominay is not that player and never has been.

Yes Donny is more technical than Scott but there are more attributes necessary for a midfielder than passing and control. If that weren't the case than Mata would be playing CM every god damn week. Scott is better off the ball than VDB, is more athletic, more direct and a better ball carrier. He's more suited to a RR team and I guarantee you he will hold that place for a while yet. I don't think he's a brilliant player and I'd hope to upgrade that position in January but he's still better than people here want to admit.

If McTominay played exactly as VDB played yesterday you'd be hearing about that mistake for a month and everyone knows it. It's embarrassing how differently this place treats it's favourites and it's rejects.

 

[romufc]

If McTominay played exactly as VDB played yesterday you'd be hearing about that mistake for a month and everyone knows it. It's embarrassing how differently this place treats it's favourites and it's rejects.

Exactly this. That performance was nothing to scream home about, we were overrun in the midfield, we couldnt get the ball into areas for our forwards to make impact.

When we did, it was the forwards creating space rather than the midfield. In the second half, we lost control of the midfield, in which if it was McTominay, everyone would be here saying all he does is back and sideways passing and cost us the goal.

 

[Newtonius]

Hindsight is 20/20 and all but almost 200 million for Maguire AWB and VDB is criminal it should be investigated for money laundering.

 

[Ekeke]

Has anyone here ever actually played a game of organised football?

The idea that touches of the ball are reflective of whether a player is better/worse is just laughable. Yes Donny got the ball more largely because the plan was for him to be the one playing it out. This stuff is organised in advance - It was Scholes/Carrick/Matic for years who the defence would look to play it too. More recently for United it's been the full backs and Fred, hence why AWB got 87 touches yesterday and Shaw usually is among the leaders. It's not because they're so technically brilliant but because it's how the team is setup to play. McTominay is not that player and never has been.

Yes Donny is more technical than Scott but there are more attributes necessary for a midfielder than passing and control. If that weren't the case than Mata would be playing CM every god damn week. Scott is better off the ball than VDB, is more athletic, more direct and a better ball carrier. He's more suited to a RR team and I guarantee you he will hold that place for a while yet. I don't think he's a brilliant player and I'd hope to upgrade that position in January but he's still better than people here want to admit.

If McTominay played exactly as VDB played yesterday you'd be hearing about that mistake for a month and everyone knows it. It's embarrassing how differently this place treats it's favourites and it's rejects.

Have you ever watched another team play football or were you born when McTominay made his debut?

Plenty of teams have several midfielders who have far more touches and passes than McTominay does. In fact most teams that dont are not in the champions league

 

[Ekeke]

Wtf???

You can lay lots of faults at Mctomminay that I'd agree with eg. Lack of passing ability etc....but the one thing he doesn't do is hide. He works really hard for the team for me. That's one of his only qualities.

Strange take that.

No, it isnt. He presses a small amount, Pogba out does him for that. And wins the ball a very average amount for a player in a DM position. What is he doing exactly? Whatever it is, its ineffective other than in the air and his goals.

He has had a few hard working games, specifically for example when our Fred and McTominay midfield bumrushed Leeds last season. Both players worked hard and were very effective breaking through. Other than that McTominay doesnt have many hard working games and normally when he plays well its because a goal has offset his average contributions overall. He's younger than Fred so heres to hoping he can improve. But theres a lot of improvement to make including with his attitude and workrate.

 

[Tom Cato]

Bruno Fernandes came and made himself undroppable immediately.

Donny came and made himself droppable.

Thing is, he's not had a lot of gametime this season and he got incredibly unlucky when AWB sabotaged the gameplan against the first leg against Young Boys. The previous season however he's had a lot of minutes, but he's not had a lot of impact. You take the chances you're given and unless you do something with it, the route to the first XI gets hard.

I've not seen anything that says Donny is the answer. He has shown that he can contribute, but every time he's started a game he's not had a good game. So is his role that of a 30-20 minute impact player?

 

[Sviken]

If McTominay played exactly as VDB played yesterday you'd be hearing about that mistake for a month and everyone knows it. It's embarrassing how differently this place treats it's favourites and it's rejects.

Why do you keep saying this? McTominay makes these kinds of mistakes every game. Even in the game against Crystal Palace he was brushed by Zaha several times that could have cost us dearly

Bruno Fernandes came and made himself undroppable immediately.

wut? Bruno has had absolute howlers this season. Even against Crystal Palace. He has not made himself undroppable at all.

 

[Red Rash]

I'm surprised people think he was poor yesterday. I actually think he had a good game minus the mistake for the goal.

Kept the ball well, played forward unfortunately the players in front didn't do much with the ball and was pretty aggressive in his tackling.

You also have to consider he has barely played in the last year, played as the deepest midfielder and was paired with Mata.

Does anyone have his stats for the game?

 

[romufc]

Bruno Fernandes came and made himself undroppable immediately.

Donny came and made himself droppable.

Thing is, he's not had a lot of gametime this season and he got incredibly unlucky when AWB sabotaged the gameplan against the first leg against Young Boys. The previous season however he's had a lot of minutes, but he's not had a lot of impact. You take the chances you're given and unless you do something with it, the route to the first XI gets hard.

I've not seen anything that says Donny is the answer. He has shown that he can contribute, but every time he's started a game he's not had a good game. So is his role that of a 30-20 minute impact player?

Exactly.

Bruno came in and we saw a change in the way we played, we saw creativity. Yet there is a portion of the fans group that want Bruno dropped, when he's got more credit in the bank than most players.

Donny got a start last year against West Ham, we were 1-0 with no control, half time Bruno came in and made an impact, we won the game.

We have had FA cup and league cup games where everyone raves about Donny's performance but we've been knocked out the competition.

Also, if you ask people, what has been Donny's best game? They'll say Watford where he came on at half time and played well for 20 mins. We lost the game 4-1.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Never going to understand his worth without a run of games.

 

[yipthatman]

He was definitely no worse than any of the attack apart from Mason. They all made loads of mistakes too. It was quite a mish-mash last night. Basically the B/C team that have never even played together and are not fully fit (they all looked gassed as the match progressed). I'd love to see Donny come good but I just haven't seen much from him in 1815 minutes of play for United in all competitions. One or 2 flashes of quality but mostly his displays are flat and forgettable. He always seems low on confidence to me.

 

[Ekeke]

Bruno Fernandes came and made himself undroppable immediately.

Donny came and made himself droppable.

Thing is, he's not had a lot of gametime this season and he got incredibly unlucky when AWB sabotaged the gameplan against the first leg against Young Boys. The previous season however he's had a lot of minutes, but he's not had a lot of impact. You take the chances you're given and unless you do something with it, the route to the first XI gets hard.

I've not seen anything that says Donny is the answer. He has shown that he can contribute, but every time he's started a game he's not had a good game. So is his role that of a 30-20 minute impact player?

Are you really going to compare him against our one, best signing since Sir Alex left?

Seems a bit unfair to expect him to do what only 1 player has managed in the last 12 years.

 

[Tom Cato]

Are you really going to compare him against our one, best signing since Sir Alex left?

Seems a bit unfair to expect him to do what only 1 player has managed in the last 12 years.

The point was that he's not been that good. Yet.

 

[Ekeke]

The point was that he's not been that good. Yet.

Correct, he hasnt been as good as Fernandes. And probably wont ever be. And we're unlikely to have another signing who comes in and does as well as Fernandes does for another 5-10 years

 

[ICHM]

I have yet to see a match where DVB has done anything other than poor or near poor. £40+M wasted, we had out pants pulled down. He needs to go and at least we'll get maybe half back.

 

[VanDeBank]

The point was that he's not been that good. Yet.

True. But if his this is his floor level in the pivot I'll take it over McTominay. Not that I wouldn't break the bank for a first choice DM on January first. I'd take Neves over either.

 

[Stacks]

I've never seen a player that has had as many excuses for them as van de Beek has in his time for us. Especially with his ratio of 'good' to 'average' games.

never in my life.

He was, as he usually is, pretty average. Worked hard, tackled enthusiastically, not very good positionally and finished with an 84% pass completion rate despite rarely trying anything difficult. And give away a goal.

Didn't make a case to start at the weekend.

he is an average ass player

Yeah of course you can.

That was a bunch of players thrown in, in a new system. Mata played next to him also.

He plays the same regardless who we field. He has played with better guys and looked the same.

Gifted Young Boys the chance for their goal. Made plently of tackles and interceptions. Passing was ok.

Never understood the hype about Donny, especially in terms of central midfield. Bewildered by the idea that he should be a starter.

that champions league run when he wasn't even the best midfielder, seems people mistaking him for the Barcalona lad

I don't know what people expected. He was playing in midfield alone and he was easily our third best player aside from Baily and Greenwood. Actively wanted the ball, spread the passes, broke play. Had a shitty mistake in that goal, but other than that he was decent. Certainly better than McTominay whose hiding every game. DVB-Fred should be the midfield to go.

What opportunities has he been given though? He's impressed this season. This game was not his best, but it was still an adequate performance considering the circumstances. He needs a run of games. It's not like he would be displacing prime Zidane in midfield anyway.

man stop it!

There's always an excuse for Van de Beek it seems, the truth is he's never looked top drawer for us. Please don't talk to me about Watford, cos they've been spanked by everyone they've played lately besides us.

Just like in the League Cup against West Ham, he made a costly defensive mistake today. If Fred or McTominay did that we'd savage them, we'd be right to as well.

welcome to club

He’s pretty average. As a number 6 anyway. Hopefully this conversation can be put to bed now.

Was he giving Ralf Rangnick lip as well? If so, then I hope he likes watching from the stands.

hes BEEN AVERAGE the moment he put on a shirt for us.

Outside of Watford away, when has he really impressed? He had a moment against Newcastle but not done much else.

Last season it was more or less the same. He's been under utilised and so I think he deserves more opportunities but the way people go on about him versus how he's actually played are miles apart.

I have no agenda against him and I want him to do well but I have to be realistic about what I've seen these last 18 months.

its fascinating

He needs more than adequate though. Despite the circumstance, just like the young players, thats an audition. He does not dislodge Mct or Fred based on that performance.

I been saying this. They may be bad but when he plays he doesn't actually outperform them

He’s attained a cult status for being shite that sees him getting a considerably easier ride than players who have played much better for United than he has.

as said before its fascinating. gets better
1) the longer he doesn't play
2) the more average performances he puts in

Seems to spend a lot of time dicking around with the ball or passing backwards.

that's his game. its called controlling/dominating the game or something

 

[DrRodo]

Looks like only a miracle can turn him into an useful player at this point. I can't see what his supporters see

 

[RonaldoVII]

He was amazing against Watford, Young Boys (first game),West Ham in Carabao and Watford. Definitely deserves a chance from those games. Aside from that, he was better than McTominay's usual performances even in this game. He had one shitty sub appearance against a team I don't remember where he was subbed on for 2 mins and made a mstake of gifting the ball, but aside from that and yesterday's mistake, he has been solid whenever he's been given the chance (as rare as that is). Even in this game, playing with Mata in midfield and a bunch of players who have never even had a senior game, he had double the passes and touches of McTominay and equal amount of interceptions and tackles. On what ground doesn't he deserve to start over McTominay?

Our standards must have dropped to rock bottom if you classed any of those performances as amazing. He was ok against Young Boys away but it was another "ok" performance and nothing special, hence him being the obvious choice to be hooked when down to 10. Carabao cup - another game where we lost. You also mentioned Watford twice when scraping the barrel. He was good against Watford and his best game for us but we were 2-0 down and he was playing further forward.

You say he's solid when he comes on but most of the time he just blends in. Nearly cost us a goal against City, gave a goal away yesterday and arguably Mata looked better in midfield than him.

The hype and spin around him is ridiculous. He's never going to play regularly for us and should be sold to whoever wants him in January so we can buy someone to replace McTominay in the starting 11.