I didn't say we were effective at it, but you can see what they are trying to do
Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Some numbers pre semi finals, be interesting to see how its changed since. (Rice having more minutes obviously affected some of these).
I mean I could say the same thing to a United fan. So its pointless throwing that around.
And again, secondly, the entire England team was poor. You can't have Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Saka, Rice, Stones all look utterly dire at the same time in the same team unless there is a common denominator.
We know who that is.
Yes mate I agree with that but the thing is it proves the players don't know what the feck they're doing and its all down to Southgate. At Arsenal he has a very specific role and he excels at it. Just like Xhaka was poor till Arteta gave him his specific role and now at Leverkusen he has a specific role. If Rice Odegaard Jorginho/Havertz/Trossard can work where Arsenal dominate the midfield, there is absolutely no reason why Rice, Bellingham, Mainoo and so on can't do.
The only reason is Southgate.
No one would ever confuse Roy Keane for Xavi.
Is that the angle were going for now. Roy Keane was schooled in the art of Tika taka? Your living in cuculand land
Is that the angle were going for now. Roy Keane was schooled in the art of Tika taka? Your living in cuculand land
This thread is hilarious, like a perfect demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
The very best managers and many top players in the game rate Rice through the roof but Redcafe posters are confident that they are wrong and he is actually bang average based on watching him play a handful of matches in an international tournament in a dysfunctional side coached by Gareth Southgate.
The very best managers and many top players in the game rate Rice through the roof but Redcafe posters are confident that they are wrong and he is actually bang average based on watching him play a handful of matches in an international tournament in a dysfunctional side coached by Gareth Southgate.
Odd thing for you, a fellow RedCafe poster, to say when tons of manager and players also rate Southgate through the roof.
Managers and players, even the very best ones, make mistakes all the time. I'm not saying they necessarily did with Rice (or Southgate), but that's the whole reason why forums like this exist - so people can share their own opinions.
He didn't have a good tournament, isn't used brilliantly by Southgate, but plenty on here do appear to have a weirdly big thing against him.
We have the short term memory of a fruitfly.
The season starts, Arsenal rack up a couple of wins against cannon fodder through no credit to rice and then he'll start getting rated next to the greats again.
Indeed. We'd be much better off having him than Casemiro, for example.
I’d take all those you listed ahead of Rice.Carrick needed Hargreaves to win the UCL.
He couldn't dictate play as a single pivot by himself to a UCL standard.
Its just anyone who is English gets checked as being technically deficit - you see it with Bellingham, Foden, Rice and so many more.
If these players had a different passport then they would get much less hate.
The players United fans thought was better than Rice..
1. Bissouma
2. Ndidi
3. Caicedo
4. Onana
My lord id take Rice over them any day of the week.
He wouldn't get in the spain squad - because they have the best CDM in the world but we don't! Not at Manchester United & not in England.
Opinions and all. Gerrard said Joe Cole could do things with a ball Messi could only dream of**, for instance, and Gerrard has played at a higher level than pretty much everyone here.
**turns out Gerrard meant Cole would stick his dick in the ball, but at the time we all assumed he meant moving the ball with his feet.
Few, no wonder your not our DOF because we haven't targeted any of those
just to prove how actual football workers think.We targeted Rice first and then an ageing Casemiro and then Ugarte.
More in balance of Rice's abilities.
Throwing out "Dunning-Kruger" as a blanket insult in apparent scorn to those with a differing opinion to yours does more to invalidate your position than aid it.
There would also be a question of reading comprehension for a number of posters who don't seem to be able to take on board what's being said and are warping posts to suit their perspective and/or agenda instead of taking said posts at face value - there also seems to be a running undercurrent of purposeful misinterpretation in replies to criticism of Rice, particularly regarding what is expected of him vis-a-vis what he has delivered.
Arsenal fans keep deflecting and/or denying or extrapolating to degrees that aren't even on the table: Rice not making simple, forward passes suddenly becomes Rice being criticised for not being the second coming of Busquets/Pirlo. Reductio ad absurdum for the sake of not calling a spade a spade, which of course leads to even stronger criticism of such posts because of what they represent.
For the most part Rice is being judged on his performances in the tournament, mostly against inferior opposition, where it is perfectly reasonable to expect more from him in terms of usage of the ball. Whether he played within himself or doesn't have the ability to be more than, remains to be seen. Regardless, it is, and should be, a massive talking point given Rice's standing.
We're also in the Rice thread... to talk specifically about Rice... criticism of other players has come thick and fast. Rice is not being singled out, and a look in other player specific threads would even tell you he's got off lightly compared to the likes of Bellingham, Kane and Foden.
I think there's a need for thicker skin from you guys regarding this... debating posts instead of deflecting/what abouting or 'Dunning-Krugering' like it's a Yu-gi-oh top trumps card to play, would serve you better, and if you simply cannot tolerate criticism of your player, probably better just to avoid this thread entirely whilst muttering all who disagree are idiots, unworthy of interaction anyway. Or something.
As usual, you put in much better terms what I was feeling reading this last page
In fairness, there are some Arsenal posters that are fine chatting about it, have some sense of perspective and are more lucid, I think, but there is definitely strong tribalism when it comes to this - and it's a strange one, Declan Rice is a really weird hill to die on. Especially considering most Arsenal posters on here wouldn't have dreamt of most of their posts 12 months ago.
And it feels important to reiterate with almost every posts - no one, or pretty much no one, is saying he's shit. If there are, they are outliers and not the core of people's actually debatting/critiquing his game.
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Yeah apart from the assessment of Rice's tournament, we agree overall
Happy to agree on some things and disagree on others, would be a boring world after all if we all agreed the same thing mate.
Certainly worth discussing / debating, to me it just seems mainly people have differing views on his effectiveness on the ball, and again that's fine as well. I just happen to think he's not as bad as being made out so trying to offer a different view to those that do think so. Not trying to be precious or anything, and not blinded by support. I do think at times he can appear clunky, i do think at times he might not come across as aesthetically pleasing as others, so can appreciate that.
I mean, we know that he can play a role in a team that racked up 89 points. If he's not played to expectations in a different setup, that doesn't paint the entire picture. We have several players that have looked good in the club setup just to underwhelm in the national setup and vice versa.
Played a role in a team that won as much as England.
Rice isn't a bad player whatsoever but the Arsenal squad suits him. He was way better for Arsenal when they had someone else play at 6, and Odegaard as the play-maker.
Rice is Darren Fletcher mk2.
You make that sound like a bad thing
I think it's very important for some Arsenal fans to note that a very large contingent on here simply never rated the bloke. The threads are there for all to see. So, stop getting so emotional and blaming everything on tribalism.
I rate Rice highly but acknowledge that he was poor by his standards under Southgate. I’m quite sure that had we brought him in instead of Casemiro we’d be sorted in midfield for years to come.
But no, Rice is nowhere near the level of Carrick, let alone Keane.
But no, Rice is nowhere near the level of Carrick, let alone Keane.
Good to see his subtle cheating game after game getting punished for once.
Brain dead.
Are these stats per 90? Doesn't look like it, because Rice has quite a lot more minutes than some on there.
That’s was pretty stupid from Rice. However, I’ve literally never seen a player sent off for tapping the ball half a yard away.
The commentator on the stream I’m watching said it’s quite clear in the new directives that they want players retreat immediately on free kicks. I bet its the typical, enforce it for the first few weeks of the season and then completely forget about it.
The commentator on the stream I’m watching said it’s quite clear in the new directives that they want players retreat immediately on free kicks. I bet its the typical, enforce it for the first few weeks of the season and then completely forget about it.
Really dumb...he just cost us points there in all likelihood.
I'm sure we'll see that being punished consistently.
Misses Spurs next game then they have City. Early issues for the Goons
No Rice or Merino for Spurs. We’re looking pretty light in midfield now.
Can’t wait to hear Artetas view on that sending off.
cost them the win today
not a lot you can complain about there either
not a lot you can complain about there either
Think this was the highlight team dropped back and became more compact as the game progressed.
Could be blessing in disguise moment against Tottenham because now they can play with two players who should play. Jorginho and Partey behind Odegaard.
Oh because that is so much better.
I don't think that will be enough against Tottenham but both Jorginho and Party are better players than Rice so it is better for Arsenal.
No they are not.
Partey was poor today got caught on the ball so many times. Also happened against villa
Neither are as good as Rice. Partey used to be.
This is nonsense. I've no idea how anyone could seriously believe this.
Why was he even doing that at the 49th minute. Like you are playing at home and are expected to dominate and yet you act like underdogs. Deserved red