Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player

Always thought he was on the periphery of being a world class player but didn't think he had the strength in a specific attribute that would elevate him to that level. He's a fine all round midfielder who can do a bit of everything but isn't a particularly good passer, nor is he great technically to be able to hold the ball under pressure or dribble through it ala Pogba/Dembele etc.

I'm going to get shot for this I'm sure but he reminds me of Khedira. Not a spectacular player individually but he's a 'glue' midfielder between the deep playmaker and the attacking midfielder. While that seems like the prototypical box to box midfielder, he's smart in terms of when to go forward or stay back and therefore is someone to rely on to keep balance. That's not something all b2b midfielders have where they can be poor positionally.

These players are only effective when you have specialists in the fields they aren't great, particularly passing and playmaking. That's why Khedira was great for Germany playing with Schweinsteiger and Ozil then Kroos as well, the other two were specialists in their field while he was the gap to keep balance.

Arsenal right now don't have either the deep playmaker Schweinsteiger was or, when Odegaard is injured, the Ozil type playmaker. Therefore, it's a struggle to create or keep control. I thought the Jorginho-Rice-Odegaard partnership was good for that reason.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Always thought he was on the periphery of being a world class player but didn't think he had the strength in a specific attribute that would elevate him to that level. He's a fine all round midfielder who can do a bit of everything but isn't a particularly good passer, nor is he great technically to be able to hold the ball under pressure or dribble through it ala Pogba/Dembele etc.

I'm going to get shot for this I'm sure but he reminds me of Khedira. Not a spectacular player individually but he's a 'glue' midfielder between the deep playmaker and the attacking midfielder. While that seems like the prototypical box to box midfielder, he's smart in terms of when to go forward or stay back and therefore is someone to rely on to keep balance. That's not something all b2b midfielders have where they can be poor positionally.

These players are only effective when you have specialists in the fields they aren't great, particularly passing and playmaking. That's why Khedira was great for Germany playing with Schweinsteiger and Ozil then Kroos as well, the other two were specialists in their field while he was the gap to keep balance.

Arsenal right now don't have either the deep playmaker Schweinsteiger was or, when Odegaard is injured, the Ozil type playmaker. Therefore, it's a struggle to create or keep control. I thought the Jorginho-Rice-Odegaard partnership was good for that reason.
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I think that is a good assessment. He's not a star player and never will be but he's perfectly capable of being that 'glue' midfielder you describe that can be vital for trophy winning sides. I suppose though that's why people have an issue with his fee as people want 100m+ players to be stars and not a 'glue' despite them arguably both being as important for the side to function.
 
SilentWitness said:
I think that is a good assessment. He's not a star player and never will be but he's perfectly capable of being that 'glue' midfielder you describe that can be vital for trophy winning sides. I suppose though that's why people have an issue with his fee as people want 100m+ players to be stars and not a 'glue' despite them arguably both being as important for the side to function.
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Yea, I was going to mention that the question is whether this type of glue midfielder is worth 100m. Difficult to say but I think if you have the players around him then he might be because it can be the difference between winning and not winning a title. It's also about what other options you have available.
 
MayosNoun said:
He still treats the ball like a hot potato. He’s horrible at receiving the ball with back to goal. He panics and passes back to wherever it came from. He didn’t have anyone yesterday and just started running backwards and it was utterly hilarious.

Still looks like a centre back playing in midfield.
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Getting flashbacks to Henderson before Fabinho arrived and forced him to step up his game.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Always thought he was on the periphery of being a world class player but didn't think he had the strength in a specific attribute that would elevate him to that level. He's a fine all round midfielder who can do a bit of everything but isn't a particularly good passer, nor is he great technically to be able to hold the ball under pressure or dribble through it ala Pogba/Dembele etc.

I'm going to get shot for this I'm sure but he reminds me of Khedira. Not a spectacular player individually but he's a 'glue' midfielder between the deep playmaker and the attacking midfielder. While that seems like the prototypical box to box midfielder, he's smart in terms of when to go forward or stay back and therefore is someone to rely on to keep balance. That's not something all b2b midfielders have where they can be poor positionally.

These players are only effective when you have specialists in the fields they aren't great, particularly passing and playmaking. That's why Khedira was great for Germany playing with Schweinsteiger and Ozil then Kroos as well, the other two were specialists in their field while he was the gap to keep balance.

Arsenal right now don't have either the deep playmaker Schweinsteiger was or, when Odegaard is injured, the Ozil type playmaker. Therefore, it's a struggle to create or keep control. I thought the Jorginho-Rice-Odegaard partnership was good for that reason.
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Yep, this is a pretty fair assessment.

He was great last year. Several MOTM performances at the base of our midfield. As you say, he’s not top tier at receiving the ball on the turn and quickly distributing, but he was so elite defensively that with Odegaard ahead of that didn’t matter.

Then Havertz moved up front and Rice started playing pretty high up the pitch. He pressed like a demon, had a crazy number of interceptions, crashed the box a ton and put up better g/a than Xhaka in his best season.

He’s great in either of those roles. But this season he’s been playing a lot on the left side of a very flat double pivot and it highlights all of his weaknesses and none of his strengths. He’s played poorly there for both West Ham and England. We lost Odegaard and for some reason decided on a system that allowed us to shoehorn Trossard into the team. Now Odegaard is back… and we’re still playing. Very frustrating.
 
Daydreamer said:
Yep, this is a pretty fair assessment.

He was great last year. Several MOTM performances at the base of our midfield. As you say, he’s not top tier at receiving the ball on the turn and quickly distributing, but he was so elite defensively that with Odegaard ahead of that didn’t matter.

Then Havertz moved up front and Rice started playing pretty high up the pitch. He pressed like a demon, had a crazy number of interceptions, crashed the box a ton and put up better g/a than Xhaka in his best season.

He’s great in either of those roles. But this season he’s been playing a lot on the left side of a very flat double pivot and it highlights all of his weaknesses and none of his strengths. t allowed us to shoehorn Trossard into the team. Now Odegaard is back… and we’re still playing. Very frustrating.
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Exactly how I'm seeing his role just now. He's actually playing like a bit of an odd man out in my opinion, in order to accommodate Partey. I think he'd perform better if playing as the more central 6 with Merino and Odegaard, and I think that will be his role long term, but Partey is playing so well it's difficult to drop him just now.

I think there's a few tweaks Arteta could make if he wants to play with both Rice and Partey, like playing both more flat and have Odegaard play more central instead of from the right half space, but he doesn't seem to want to do that.
 
Another over-priced player imo, as part of Arsenal’s £800m recent spending spree. But he fits in with the backward passing and ‘boring football’ style. He does look like a centre back in midfield, but Arsenal like to play a ‘defensive first’ style.
 
GoonerBear said:
Exactly how I'm seeing his role just now. He's actually playing like a bit of an odd man out in my opinion, in order to accommodate Partey. I think he'd perform better if playing as the more central 6 with Merino and Odegaard, and I think that will be his role long term, but Partey is playing so well it's difficult to drop him just now.

I think there's a few tweaks Arteta could make if he wants to play with both Rice and Partey, like playing both more flat and have Odegaard play more central instead of from the right half space, but he doesn't seem to want to do that.
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Merino is gash.

Rice x Partey is the better option, even if it doesn't get the best out of Rice.
 
Bwuk said:
Merino is gash.

Rice x Partey is the better option, even if it doesn't get the best out of Rice.
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I thought Merino had a decent cameo yesterday. I think in terms of pure quality of players I agree that Rice and Partey are better. However, sometimes it's not just about quality of players, sometimes it's also what gives you better balance, and clearly the left side with Timber, Rice and Martinelli all looking to make runs and play infield doesn't offer the same balance as the right side with Odegaard, Saka and White.
 
Torino said:
Another over-priced player imo, as part of Arsenal’s £800m recent spending spree. But he fits in with the backward passing and ‘boring football’ style. He does look like a centre back in midfield, but Arsenal like to play a ‘defensive first’ style.
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I mean, it’s £655m.

And figure that doesn’t include any income from sales.

And Arsenal just scored the most goals in a season in our history this year.
 
Daydreamer said:
I mean, it’s £655m.

And figure that doesn’t include any income from sales.

And Arsenal just scored the most goals in a season in our history this year.
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He's talking about this season. Do you think your style of play is the same as last season?
 
He didn’t mention this season at all. In fact, the only time frame he did mention was the entirety of Arteta’s tenure.
 
Daydreamer said:
I mean, it’s £655m.

And figure that doesn’t include any income from sales.

And Arsenal just scored the most goals in a season in our history this year.
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I’ve seen the ‘defensive style’ critique trotted out a lot since your game at *.

Pretty lazy, in my opinion, and symptomatic of short term consciousness / parroting of TV hyper-analysis.

It’s easier for some to trot this out if they haven’t watched enough of your games to have an informed view. Or to use as ammunition for a cheap dig.

Frustrating
 
Herschel Krustofsky said:
I’ve seen the ‘defensive style’ critique trotted out a lot since your game at *.

Pretty lazy, in my opinion, and symptomatic of short term consciousness / parroting of TV hyper-analysis.

It’s easier for some to trot this out if they haven’t watched enough of your games to have an informed view. Or to use as ammunition for a cheap dig.

Frustrating
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Fans have a very short memory, and rival fans even more. There is a legitimate critique that Arteta turtles up too much in big games, but it has worked for him somewhat. It is also because our schedule has been brutal so far this year that our playing style is being generalized further.

Hopefully, with the schedule easing up and Odegaard back, we can start playing better football again.
 
Herschel Krustofsky said:
I’ve seen the ‘defensive style’ critique trotted out a lot since your game at *.

Pretty lazy, in my opinion, and symptomatic of short term consciousness / parroting of TV hyper-analysis.

It’s easier for some to trot this out if they haven’t watched enough of your games to have an informed view. Or to use as ammunition for a cheap dig.

Frustrating
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Well I have recently looked at a couple of Arsenal forums, and some Arsenal fans are turning on him (Rice).
 
Herschel Krustofsky said:
I’ve seen the ‘defensive style’ critique trotted out a lot since your game at *.

Pretty lazy, in my opinion, and symptomatic of short term consciousness / parroting of TV hyper-analysis.

It’s easier for some to trot this out if they haven’t watched enough of your games to have an informed view. Or to use as ammunition for a cheap dig.

Frustrating
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I find it funny more than anything else.
 
Hes a good player. Hes never a £105m player. Then again, who is realistically. Thats the money I would expect to pay for absolutely world class talent, you know, the likes of Antony
 
Hammondo said:
Well I have recently looked at a couple of Arsenal forums, and some Arsenal fans are turning on him (Rice).
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I'm sure that's the case, why do you think there are so many Gooners around here - our forums are a train wreck.
 
Hammondo said:
Well I have recently looked at a couple of Arsenal forums, and some Arsenal fans are turning on him (Rice).
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There were / are some on Arsenal Mania not having him at all, even from the very start. Think those generally are the same guys who want Arteta fired, thought Edu was shit, and seem to find it difficult to say anything positive about the club in general.

The Lee Gunner type you could call them. They do seem pretty vocal on there.
 
GoonerBear said:
There were / are some on Arsenal Mania not having him at all, even from the very start. Think those generally are the same guys who wants Arteta fired, thought Edu was shit, and seem to find it difficult to say anything positive about the club in general.

The Lee Gunner type you could call them. They do seem pretty vocal on there.
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They were criticizing his on-the-ball play, which I would say is reasonable. They have been praising Partey for stepping up to make up for it. Not saying a lot have been saying this, just checked recently to see how Arsenal fans are taking their current situation since they said they might win the CL this year.
 
GoonerBear said:
The Lee Gunner type you could call them.
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Fans like him... we have loads in our fan base who almost come across as if they hate the club, rather than support the club?

Its actually pathetic some of the takes he comes out with...

I just dont understand these closet Arteta out, whenever they lose they like I knew he isnt the man..

But what other manager would have got Arsenal in the position they are? Honestly, the online generation are not serious... obviously as rivals we will take the piss and say things like he needs to be sacked if he doesn't win anything etc...

More because I would rather see another manager than Arteta there, so they can implode again.

Arsenal are competitive in every game, last season played the best foobtall in the league IMO, a bit different this but the point stands.

Why would you even consider sacking him? Unless he finishes below top 4
 
romufc said:
Fans like him... we have loads in our fan base who almost come across as if they hate the club, rather than support the club?

Its actually pathetic some of the takes he comes out with...

I just dont understand these closet Arteta out, whenever they lose they like I knew he isnt the man..

But what other manager would have got Arsenal in the position they are? Honestly, the online generation are not serious... obviously as rivals we will take the piss and say things like he needs to be sacked if he doesn't win anything etc...

More because I would rather see another manager than Arteta there, so they can implode again.

Arsenal are competitive in every game, last season played the best foobtall in the league IMO, a bit different this but the point stands.

Why would you even consider sacking him? Unless he finishes below top 4
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They played the best football in the league?
 
Hammondo said:
They were criticizing his on-the-ball play, which I would say is reasonable. They have been praising Partey for stepping up to make up for it. Not saying a lot have been saying this, just checked recently to see how Arsenal fans are taking their current situation since they said they might win the CL this year.
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Those are actually fair criticisms this season. But a lot of the time, Arsenal Mania and online Gooners in general tend to actively enjoy moaning about the team, as @GoonerBear said.
 
romufc said:
Last season, in my opinion yes... They did. They were winning 4/5/6 nil away from home consistently. Not losing games to any of the big 6..
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We definitely played the best football from the start of the year through to the run-in. City got very fortunate in a lot games during in 2024. They got quite a few late winners, Chris Wood literally missed a hat trick of sitters against them and had Son had his usual shooting boots on when clean through 1v1, Arsenal would currently be champions. It was incredibly fine margins, but that the beauty of football.

Not that it felt all that beautiful to be on the receiving end.
 
romufc said:
Fans like him... we have loads in our fan base who almost come across as if they hate the club, rather than support the club?

Its actually pathetic some of the takes he comes out with...

I just dont understand these closet Arteta out, whenever they lose they like I knew he isnt the man..

But what other manager would have got Arsenal in the position they are? Honestly, the online generation are not serious... obviously as rivals we will take the piss and say things like he needs to be sacked if he doesn't win anything etc...

More because I would rather see another manager than Arteta there, so they can implode again.

Arsenal are competitive in every game, last season played the best foobtall in the league IMO, a bit different this but the point stands.

Why would you even consider sacking him? Unless he finishes below top 4
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For me, i always felt the guy who took Arsenal back to the top was Edu.

Them being reborn again was more due to their transfers in and out rather than anything that tactical.

1. You can see some of Arteta's love for average ex City players such as Gabriel Jesus, Zinchenko & Sterling who are now pretty much deadwood.
2. They rose back to the top due to their transfers like Ozil & Aubemayang out and players like Partey, Saliba, Gabriel, Trossard, Odegaard, Havertz making them strong again.

It was all due to having a better squad than anything amazingly tactical.

Best example of this is actually declan rice.

He is a ball winner used as a player that purely blocks the opposition attack through the central lane. He is world class at this and it takes alot of effort & luck to go past Rice covering two good CB's.

This is why England & Southgate had been able to best utelise him & keeping his job very minimal but very effective at the same time leading them to finals.

Arteta however uses Rice as a player going up and down the pitch almost trying to play like Xhaka. Its very tactically bad as he is not a great dribbler neither is he a very creative passer, he just has a good shot and and engine. Even though Arsenal are very good at set pieces I even find using Rice as corner taker quite a bad choice, completely the wrong way to use the true benefits of rice.
 
Shaw's Shank Redemption said:
For me, i always felt the guy who took Arsenal back to the top was Edu.

Them being reborn again was more due to their transfers in and out rather than anything that tactical.

1. You can see some of Arteta's love for average ex City players such as Gabriel Jesus, Zinchenko & Sterling who are now pretty much deadwood.
2. They rose back to the top due to their transfers like Ozil & Aubemayang out and players like Partey, Saliba, Gabriel, Trossard, Odegaard, Havertz making them strong again.

It was all due to having a better squad than anything amazingly tactical.

Best example of this is actually declan rice.

He is a ball winner used as a player that purely blocks the opposition attack through the central lane. He is world class at this and it takes alot of effort & luck to go past Rice covering two good CB's.

This is why England & Southgate had been able to best utelise him & keeping his job very minimal but very effective at the same time leading them to finals.

Arteta however uses Rice as a player going up and down the pitch almost trying to play like Xhaka. Its very tactically bad as he is not a great dribbler neither is he a very creative passer, he just has a good shot and and engine. Even though Arsenal are very good at set pieces I even find using Rice as corner taker quite a bad choice, completely the wrong way to use the true benefits of rice.
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Was it not Arteta that insisted he wanted Auba out, and Ozil to a lesser extent? I don't know how you can tell who was the lead in transfers....are you suggesting that Jesus, Zinchenko and Sterling are purely Arteta signings and players like Odegaard, Gabriel, Partey & Havertz are Edu signings?
 
GoonerBear said:
Was it not Arteta that insisted he wanted Auba out, and Ozil to a lesser extent? I don't know how you can tell who was the lead in transfers....are you suggesting that Jesus, Zinchenko and Sterling are purely Arteta signings and players like Odegaard, Gabriel, Partey & Havertz are Edu signings?
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Wasn't Havertz described as an Arteta target when you were working on a deal?

In general when it comes to transfers the caf is very simple, the person responsible depends entirely on your agenda.
 
JPRouve said:
Wasn't Havertz described as an Arteta target when you were working on a deal?

In general when it comes to transfers the caf is very simple, the person responsible depends entirely on your agenda.
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Indeed. Think you've sensed the tone of my post.

As for his point on Rice, I think you'll find the evolution of this midfield will have Partey leaving, Rice deployed in the 6, Merino left 8 and Odegaard right 8.

Unfortunately because of fitness issues of Odegaard and Merino we've not seen that yet.
 
romufc said:
Fans like him... we have loads in our fan base who almost come across as if they hate the club, rather than support the club?

Its actually pathetic some of the takes he comes out with...

I just dont understand these closet Arteta out, whenever they lose they like I knew he isnt the man..

But what other manager would have got Arsenal in the position they are? Honestly, the online generation are not serious... obviously as rivals we will take the piss and say things like he needs to be sacked if he doesn't win anything etc...

More because I would rather see another manager than Arteta there, so they can implode again.

Arsenal are competitive in every game, last season played the best foobtall in the league IMO, a bit different this but the point stands.

Why would you even consider sacking him? Unless he finishes below top 4
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Just following up on this, I don't get it either bud. It's like these guys revel in bad patches like this, just to prove they are right. I don't think they actually want the team to win games as it would prove their agenda wrong. They don't even offer up any realistic alternatives, it's just 'get that twat out the club'.

People used to accuse Robbie and the AFTV guys of doing similar, but I think very the past couple of years that's proven to be false, certainly compared to guys like this.

I'm not saying support the team or manager blindly, by all means critique them. But they shit on them win, lose or draw. I mean, what enjoyment do you get from watching football, from watching the team you 'support', if that's the emotion that it brings out you even if you win?

If Arsenal were to win the league or Champions League (I know, I know), it's not rival fans I'd seek out reactions of first, it's guys like these just to see how they would twist a win like this into a bad thing.
 
GoonerBear said:
Just following up on this, I don't get it either bud. It's like these guys revel in bad patches like this, just to prove they are right. I don't think they actually want the team to win games as it would prove their agenda wrong. They don't even offer up any realistic alternatives, it's just 'get that twat out the club'.

People used to accuse Robbie and the AFTV guys of doing similar, but I think very the past couple of years that's proven to be false, certainly compared to guys like this.

I'm not saying support the team or manager blindly, by all means critique them. But they shit on them win, lose or draw. I mean, what enjoyment do you get from watching football, from watching the team you 'support', if that's the emotion that it brings out you even if you win?

If Arsenal were to win the league or Champions League (I know, I know), it's not rival fans I'd seek out reactions of first, it's guys like these just to see how they would twist a win like this into a bad thing.
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100% I can guarantee these people would give 0 credit to the manager...

Its the same as United fans, surprising its the same people who Lee Gunner converses with, they act like the know football.

I actually dont mind Robbie, think he is pretty fair in his analysis, he does give Arteta alot of prop tbf.
 
By saying Arteta was the main driver in getting Zinchenko and Jesus over, that might be the case but we should also consider those players were known to be available and probably eager to work with Arteta because of their history together. We were a bit of a mess and I am not sure how much drawing power we had at that particular point. So more availability rather than anything else.

Both were ok initially, but we have outgrown them, and they have both regressed a little. Jesus looks to not be the player he was before his pre WC injury

Edu did alright. He took continuous flack on our main forums, but in large I find the criticism unwarranted. Every one in his position would get some wrong. He got more right than wrongs.
 
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