De Ligt | €45+5m agreement reached pending medical | Signed!

[OmarUnited4ever]

I mean all of them are quick. Of course no one is as fast as Walker, he's one of that fastest footballers in recent history. But there's a reason Pep has no issues playing them that high and wide, they can all deal with defending those spaces very well because they are all pretty quick bar Dias.

Yes you have to control games as well, but acting like none of those City CB's are athletic or comparing them to Maguire is daft.

I didn't even once compare them to Maguire and I don't think they are as quick as you say especially Stones and Akanji, they aren't slow bar Dias,, they might deal with a quick forward, using strength and other ways instead of competing with those forwards in a foot race but they aren't considered fast like Van der Veen Rudiger.

Not to needlessly continue this back and forth, I think we both agree that control is a key element in being able to play high defense line and you don't need a speed demon CB to play high defense line but obviously a slow cb (aka Maguire) will not help at all.

and back to the main topic, I don't think De Ligt is worth the money he will cost (I am assuming BM will demand €50-60m, plus I hear he is on high wages and he will obviously demand it)

 

[reelworld]

I don't think de Ligt is that slow. He's more agile than Maguire for sure and we definitely can play with him in a high line tactics.
I think pace is important for that tactics, but not the dealbreaker as long as the defender have other qualities and the tactics prevent him to being exposed.
I mean Pique isn't exactly the fastest defender, but he did alright in Barca high line high pressing system.
But I do think if ten Hag wanted to keep the transition based tactics, de Ligt is going to be exposed like Maguire does. I think the reason Pique could do well in Pep's Barca is that since they dominated possession so much, Pique is not expose much to striker trying to run behind him, and since he got excellent read and positioning he will able to snuff it out when that (rarely) happens. It's basically a numbers game.
if de Ligt came, we need to start to play a more possession based tactics, other wise we aren't going to see much improvement and de Ligt will be a failure as well

 

[Red_toad]

I don't think de Ligt is that slow. He's more agile than Maguire for sure and we definitely can play with him in a high line tactics.
I think pace is important for that tactics, but not the dealbreaker as long as the defender have other qualities and the tactics prevent him to being exposed.
I mean Pique isn't exactly the fastest defender, but he did alright in Barca high line high pressing system.
But I do think if ten Hag wanted to keep the transition based tactics, de Ligt is going to be exposed like Maguire does. I think the reason Pique could do well in Pep's Barca is that since they dominated possession so much, Pique is not expose much to striker trying to run behind him, and since he got excellent read and positioning he will able to snuff it out when that (rarely) happens. It's basically a numbers game.
if de Ligt came, we need to start to play a more possession based tactics, other wise we aren't going to see much improvement and de Ligt will be a failure as well

To be fair the Barca team Pique played in had so much possession, his lack of pace wasn’t an issue.
Look at our midfield and then think about we can play 2 who aren’t the quickest in a high line…. If we wish to improve then we need a certain profile. Not sticking someone in there to do a job and then change tactics as we don’t have what’s required.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't think de Ligt is that slow. He's more agile than Maguire for sure and we definitely can play with him in a high line tactics.
I think pace is important for that tactics, but not the dealbreaker as long as the defender have other qualities and the tactics prevent him to being exposed.
I mean Pique isn't exactly the fastest defender, but he did alright in Barca high line high pressing system.

While that’s true, those Barca / Spain teams were very unique in their ability to retain possession making suffocating opponents out of possession significantly easier. We don’t have that luxury - in fact we are pretty awful at controlling games which makes our defence a bigger target.

I get that having defenders comfortable on the ball helps, but I also feel that we also need someone to counter Martinez’ weaknesses - he’s a brilliant defender but he’s not all that quick and having two not all that quick center backs with one as highly paid as De Ligt would be - not sure about that. Adding to that Maguire and Lindelof and it leaves us without any real pace in the collection of CBs. Varane must be quicker than all of them?

 

[Reyoji-Utd]

Its best for the clubs to stop sign any dutch players at all when EtH here as manager. Its tiresome now that its brought up as EtH targets whenever we link with dutch players.

 

[Bondi77]

By some accounts Erik Dier at nearly 30 was the best defender at Bayern once he got into the first team so I don't know why we would be shelling out a big transfer fee and big wages to a player that was'nt any better than him.

 

[Remember the geese]

By some accounts Erik Dier at nearly 30 was the best defender at Bayern once he got into the first team so I don't know why we would be shelling out a big transfer fee and big wages to a player that was'nt any better than him.

According to a large majority of Bayern fans, De Ligt has been their best centre back for the last two years.

 

[JE-365]

Strongest positive points about de Ligt:

• He’s still 24 years old - a very good age for the profile we’re looking for.
• He has lot of experiences - he has played in two different countries like Italy and Germany, and played for big club like Juventus (he had Bonucci and Chiellini to compete with, 2 big egos which is not easy to deal with in the environment) and Bayern. Any players would have learnt a lot from playing for Juventus and Bayern.
• He’s proactive and aggressive defender who likes to be in front foot - he fits the manager’s profile who keeps saying that he wants to play in the front foot.
• He’s a leader - he was the captain of Ajax at young age and we need more leaders.
• He’s tall and strong physically - his physical attribute compliments Martinez.

Good positive points:

• He’s not silky CB on the ball like Martinez but his progressive stats number is very good, which shows he can be relied on to progress the ball - the number fits the profile for a manager who wants to play from the back.
• He’s not the quickest CB but he has played in high line football environments and knows how to play in high line - He’s been coached to play high line at Bayern and Ajax, not sure whether Juventus played high line but Nagelsmann plays high line and de Ligt was his signing.

The negative

• His wages. €307k or equivalent to £260k p/w. That’s big wages because he would be automatically become our 3rd highest paid behind Rashford and Casemiro. If he wants to take paycut to £200k or £240k max, I would take him.

Unsure:

• Injury record. His injury record isn’t too bad to be fair but not great either. He had bad ones in his second season at Bayern and second season at Juventus (mostly shoulder injuries) but he rarely got injured in his first season at Bayern and Juventus and his final season at juventus (which when lot of people praised his performance). So overall, he had some bad ones but some good ones, and the bad one he had at Juventus was shoulder injuries. So I’m unsure his overall injury record is positive or negative things.

Overall: I think it depends how you view his profile. But I think his profile sounds like he fits to what we are looking for in long term; 24 years old, a leader, highly experienced, physically tall, strong, and always on front foot, and can be relied on to make progress passings. He’s not quick but he has been coached to play in high line environments. His injury record isn’t as bad as what people has mentioned in here.

 

[leontas]

My only concern would be his injury record. Missed quite a few games for Bayern last season. And I just hope they’re not reoccurring injuries. We’ve let one injury-prone defender go in Varane. We don’t need another one.

 

[Bondi77]

According to a large majority of Bayern fans, De Ligt has been their best centre back for the last two years.

I'd like to see how they rank him, Dier, Kim and Upa in order?

 

[Escobar]

Again that’s not the definition of injury prone. Varane missed double digit games in like 3-4 consecutive seasons. That’s injury prone. Missing 6 games due a knee injury and 3 games due to a knock isn’t injury prone.

He missed 55 games the last 4 seasons, some injuries were serious. If you dont think that is injury prone, what is?

 

[Insanity]

While that’s true, those Barca / Spain teams were very unique in their ability to retain possession making suffocating opponents out of possession significantly easier. We don’t have that luxury - in fact we are pretty awful at controlling games which makes our defence a bigger target.

I get that having defenders comfortable on the ball helps, but I also feel that we also need someone to counter Martinez’ weaknesses - he’s a brilliant defender but he’s not all that quick and having two not all that quick center backs with one as highly paid as De Ligt would be - not sure about that. Adding to that Maguire and Lindelof and it leaves us without any real pace in the collection of CBs. Varane must be quicker than all of them?

Yes, exactly. That's where the self-anointed football experts fail with their reasoning. We don't have heavy possession based personnel in midfield & attack to keep hold of the ball. Our attackers treat the ball like Kryptonite and constantly lose it. Bruno is a low percentage passer and Rashy & Garnacho are hit and run players who don't have very good close control or dribbling. Hojlund is same. On top, our plans is to get Ugarte or the likes to partner Mainoo in the midfield, players who are terrier types and not very good on the ball or under pressure from the opposition. This will constantly lead to counter-attacking situations which you cannot deal with by having two slowish defenders playing a high line. Our keeper is also isn't very good one on one.

I told you guys in 1955 that this guy won't work in conjunction with Martinez and I am telling you he won't work now. This is the same kind of stupidity that led people to believe that we'll score more goals with a ball playing keeper and then we went on to match our lowest goal total in the last 7 years.

 

[hasanejaz88]

I'd like to see how they rank him, Dier, Kim and Upa in order?

De Ligt, Dier (only 6 months though), Upa, Kim. Though I'm not a fan but I would think a fan should be happy if those 4 stay on next season, don't think CB was a major issue for them last season especially after they signed Dier, who did well. It's a new manager though now whose style might not suit Dier.

Don't know what the news is on Stanisic but he would be a key squad player next season.

 

[Bondi77]

De Ligt, Dier (only 6 months though), Upa, Kim. Though I'm not a fan but I would think a fan should be happy if those 4 stay on next season, don't think CB was a major issue for them last season especially after they signed Dier, who did well. It's a new manager though now whose style might not suit Dier.

Don't know what the news is on Stanisic but he would be a key squad player next season.

Why do you think Bayern want to get rid then?

 

[reelworld]

While that’s true, those Barca / Spain teams were very unique in their ability to retain possession making suffocating opponents out of possession significantly easier. We don’t have that luxury - in fact we are pretty awful at controlling games which makes our defence a bigger target.

I get that having defenders comfortable on the ball helps, but I also feel that we also need someone to counter Martinez’ weaknesses - he’s a brilliant defender but he’s not all that quick and having two not all that quick center backs with one as highly paid as De Ligt would be - not sure about that. Adding to that Maguire and Lindelof and it leaves us without any real pace in the collection of CBs. Varane must be quicker than all of them?

To be fair the Barca team Pique played in had so much possession, his lack of pace wasn’t an issue.
Look at our midfield and then think about we can play 2 who aren’t the quickest in a high line…. If we wish to improve then we need a certain profile. Not sticking someone in there to do a job and then change tactics as we don’t have what’s required.

yeah, I did mention that if we want de Ligt, we need to move towards a more possession based system. Just continuing with the current tactics is suicide and you basically not putting de Ligt in the position to succeed.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

For all those who are talking about lack of pace..

Onana
Mazraoui De Ligt Blind Tagliafico
Schone DVB Frenkie

With this line up Ajax played a very high line against european top teams.. This worked mainly because
- pressing was perfectly aligned
- Onana played far from his goal
- De Ligt held the fort..

You cannot do the last without some pace defensing large spaces..

Also.. https://youtube.com/shorts/6GXxCirMUQU?feature=shared

De ligt is niet the paciest defenders around like vd Ven, but he is far from slow..

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If we sign him we should also add a left back who is really quick. Walker often digs City out of tough situations and Martinez - De Ligt could use that.

 

[Adisa]

Without evidence, the myth that it’s ETH pushing for his signing is already accepted.

 

[devilsadvoca8]

Imagine we get him and Branthwaite and line up with

Martinez-Branthwaite-De Ligt-Dalot.

I see clean sheets galore. Even if we only Sign De Ligt, he and Martinez would be so solid together. People compare De Ligt to Maguire and I still have no idea why. It's like any defender over 190cm is Maguire nowadays. He's not rapid but he's more than quick enough and has great positioning and technique when tackling. He isn't reckless, timing is impeccable and he's only freaking 24, not even close to his peak. Many write him off because he's been around for a while, yes since he was SIXTEEN. He's still young and if he can get settled here, he'll fulfill that world-class potential.

 

[devilish]

Without evidence, the myth that it’s ETH pushing for his signing is already accepted.

Signings done during ETH's period were mostly from or had Eredivisie experience. One of the exceptions to the rule was Hojlund who is from the same agency as ETH. De Ligt is in line to that (his former captain at Ajax). Meanwhile we're set to add 2 Dutch assistants one of whom was ETH's no 2

This is a power move mate. Its evident that ETH is consolidating power at OT

 

[hasanejaz88]

Why do you think Bayern want to get rid then?

Wages, Kompany doesn't prefer him but honestly from the reaction on Twitter many aren't sure why it's him and not someone like Upa, who they are much more frustrated with.

 

[Adisa]

Signings done during ETH's period were mostly from or had Eredivisie experience. One of the exceptions to the rule was Hojlund who is from the same agency as ETH. De Ligt is in line to that (his former captain at Ajax). Meanwhile we're set to add 2 Dutch assistants one of whom was ETH's no 2

This is a power move mate. Its evident that ETH is consolidating power at OT

Coach picks his assistants, don’t see how that means he’s consolidating power.
And I’m talking specifically about De Ligt. There is zero evidence that it’s Ten Hag suggesting or pushing for his signing. Him being Dutch, or having Eredivisie experience is not evidence.

 

[VP89]

Signings done during ETH's period were mostly from or had Eredivisie experience. One of the exceptions to the rule was Hojlund who is from the same agency as ETH. De Ligt is in line to that (his former captain at Ajax). Meanwhile we're set to add 2 Dutch assistants one of whom was ETH's no 2

This is a power move mate. Its evident that ETH is consolidating power at OT

Managers are generally given freedom to have their own coaching staff. That's not a power move.

It's reported de Ligt was offered to ten hag as a candidate by INEOS. So you're just making things up by way of lazily looking at their previous relationship.

Hojlund moved to SEG after his move was clear to United, and we have fewer SEG players than some of our PL rivals.

 

[Camy89]

Huge salary AND injury prone.

Can’t fecking wait.

Why do we insist on buying these huge signings like we’re in FM? Why can’t we, I don’t know, maybe use our scouting to find a more affordable prospect and potentially sell on for profit in the future?

Transfer windows are just absolute depression for United fans.

 

[Rojofiam]

Signings done during ETH's period were mostly from or had Eredivisie experience. One of the exceptions to the rule was Hojlund who is from the same agency as ETH. De Ligt is in line to that (his former captain at Ajax). Meanwhile we're set to add 2 Dutch assistants one of whom was ETH's no 2

This is a power move mate. Its evident that ETH is consolidating power at OT

Hojlund only switched to SEG when it was clear United wanted him and we were his preferred destination as well.

 

[Uncle Mainoo]

Think about this as if we were selling De Ligt.

We would want to receive his book value which is around £42m (which is cheap compared to other targets).

We refused to pay off Maguire’s wages and therefore he wouldn’t leave. As the buying club we would hold the same stance as West Ham. So there would be two options either Bayern pay him off, or they increase the price and use that to pay him off. I.e. we end up paying £52m and £10m goes towards paying him off.

Seems odd, but for us we spread the £52m across 5 years whilst also saving what we will pay him in wages which if we offer him £200k we save £70k a week. So £3.6m a year. Over 5 years that’s more than the extra £10m we’ve paid Bayern.

 

[Stadjer]

Its best for the clubs to stop sign any dutch players at all when EtH here as manager. Its tiresome now that its brought up as EtH targets whenever we link with dutch players.

It is tiresome but missing out on quality players because of some stupid fan opinions is even worse.

 

[Rojofiam]

Lindelof can't stay fit, and nor can Maguire. You can't play unfit players in a high line, because it's a lot more physically demanding than playing in a low block. And Wan Bissaka could never play in a high line.

Maguire by the way was never that good in the few times he did play in a high line. He flopped terribly under Ole after a decent first season, and he didnt' play in as high a line at Leicester. Lindelof played in a low block for Jose which was his best phase for us. Now you have two players who were never that great in a high line, but thats immaterial because they cant stay fit either, which means its all redundant.

So yes, they can't play in a high line. It's astounding this has to be literally spelt out for you.

So many things are just straight up untrue in this. Maguire is absolutely suited for a high line and his availability has always been one his biggest strengths, just because he sustained 2 injuries that resulted in him missing 11 games last season, that hasn't turned him into an injury prone player.

He also didn't flop until Ole. Both 19/20 and 20/21 were immense seasons from Maguire.

It's astounding how you're making up things.

 

[VP89]

So many things are just straight up untrue in this. Maguire is absolutely suited for a high line and his availability has always been one his biggest strengths, just because he sustained 2 injuries that resulted in him missing 11 games last season, that hasn't turned him into an injury prone player.

He also didn't flop until Ole. Both 19/20 and 20/21 were immense seasons from Maguire.

It's astounding how you're making up things.

Immense? feck me there's some serious revisionism here.

He is absolutely not suited to a high line. He is suited to a counter approach. He was OK under Ole in year 1. Good in year 2. Atrocious in year 3. Then he was not really favoured under Ten Hag and couldn't stay fit (the man is still injured for the euros).

He can't play in a high line, if he could it was 4 years ago.

If what you said made remote sense, he'd have more interest than a low block counter attack side last summer. No one playing attractive football wants him, and the reason is very obvious.

 

[mikeyt]

I guess maybe the thought is we want some experience to replace Varane? Either way if we do bring him in, we have to then bring another, younger CB in with a view to offloading Lindelof and Maguire.

 

[Widow]

Maguire is absolutely suited for a high line

What? You're trolling now.

Maguire has some fine qualities and he isn't as bad as some make out but playing a high line isn't one of them.

His lack of recovery pace and sluggish turning circle means he gets himself in a mess and looks amateurish at times.

 

[ArmaDino]

I guess maybe the thought is we want some experience to replace Varane? Either way if we do bring him in, we have to then bring another, younger CB in with a view to offloading Lindelof and Maguire.

We targeted 2 CBs from the get go. Todibo and Brantwaithe/Inacio/Yoro. Todibo fell through, so I imagine we are looking for a plan B, not sure who that is yet.

It's clear we moved to De Ligt because our option A/B/C are either unavailable, too expensive or are unwilling to move.

For once it's refreshing to see our club move to the alternatives as soon as we see that a player is not available.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Played 300 fewer minutes of football than Varane last season

Will demand a similar wage.

Ten Hag wants him

What could go wrong eh?


Glad the club has learned lessons and turned over a new leaf

He might not be the only defender though. For all we know we could be looking at bringing in a couple. De ligt and branthwaite would be decent along with Martinez. Not a bad cb mix at all. All depends on price I guess but we won’t only bring in one.

 

[Castia]

He might not be the only defender though. For all we know we could be looking at bringing in a couple. De ligt and branthwaite would be decent along with Martinez. Not a bad cb mix at all. All depends on price I guess but we won’t only bring in one.

We won’t be spending 120m+ on 2 CB’s in my opinion besides De ligt, Branthwait, Martinez and Maguire is a bit overkill all 4 will want to be starters

 

[redcucumber]

Maguire is absolutely suited for a high line.

Both 19/20 and 20/21 were immense seasons from Maguire.

It's astounding how you're making up things.

O lawd.

 

[ForeverRed1]

We won’t be spending 120m+ on 2 CB’s in my opinion besides De ligt, Branthwait, Martinez and Maguire is a bit overkill all 4 will want to be starters

Depends if we sell both Maguire and lindelof. It’s possible they could both leave. We’d probably get about 30mil for them both, de ligt will probably cost about 40-50. Probably won’t get branthwaite due to price but it really depends on Everton and their financial situation/if something can be figured out.

 

[dinostar77]

So many things are just straight up untrue in this. Maguire is absolutely suited for a high line and his availability has always been one his biggest strengths, just because he sustained 2 injuries that resulted in him missing 11 games last season, that hasn't turned him into an injury prone player.

He also didn't flop until Ole. Both 19/20 and 20/21 were immense seasons from Maguire.

It's astounding how you're making up things.

You need pace and recovery pace for a high line. Maguire has neither.

 

[devilish]

Coach picks his assistants, don’t see how that means he’s consolidating power.
And I’m talking specifically about De Ligt. There is zero evidence that it’s Ten Hag suggesting or pushing for his signing. Him being Dutch, or having Eredivisie experience is not evidence.

Managers are generally given freedom to have their own coaching staff. That's not a power move.

It's reported de Ligt was offered to ten hag as a candidate by INEOS. So you're just making things up by way of lazily looking at their previous relationship.

Hojlund moved to SEG after his move was clear to United, and we have fewer SEG players than some of our PL rivals.

This setup (manager surrounded by his own people) is more akin to a more old fashioned, manager centric system akin to the times of SAF and Capello. In detail its even worse than that. SAF would usually have 1 assistant with managerial experience (Queroz or Smith). ETH will have 3 in Mclaren, Hake and RVN, two of which are Dutch and Mclaren was ETH's manager at his time at Twente. We're also expected to believe that out of all defenders in the world the two we made a solid move to sign is branthwaite (he played in the Eredivisie under ETH's future assistant Ruud),De Ligt (former captain of Ajax) and a Dutch striker. That does sound as a continuation to what happened prior INEOS arrival.

Which is fair enough really. Berrada and Ashworth hasn't yet started while Wilcox and Blanc started 2 months ago. The only INEOS guy in the building was bicycle man. The last time the guy was left to run things at NICE FC a parody of mistakes occurred which lead to a fan revolt. Brailsford probably had a hand in the disastrous 'we are interviewing every manager in the world and some tea ladies as well only to confirm ETH' move' as well. That further weakened INEOS hand and strengthened ETH's, something ETH capitalized by spilling the 'they came begging at my hotel room in Ibiza'.story to the media. I'd rather trust ETH then the guy.

However let's not kid ourselves, this is indeed ETH's power move and at this point I expect every single player that irked him to be shown the door. TBF its the sort of move I would do if I was in his shoes. Having said that, he needs to really be careful especially once the adults start joining the club and settling down. One huge mistake and he'll probably be his last

 

[Woodzy]

People forget that De Ligt (along with De Jong) was the stand out player in that infamous Ajax side. So we can mock the ETH links all we want but this one is probably someone we would look at regardless..

The only concern I would have is the injury record, but otherwise this would be a great signing.

 

[devilish]

People forget that De Ligt (along with De Jong) was the stand out player in that infamous Ajax side. So we can mock the ETH links all we want but this one is probably someone we would look at regardless..

The only concern I would have is the injury record, but otherwise this would be a great signing.

I am mocking no one. I am just saying what I feel is happening. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a........

And TBF I understand it. With Berrada and Ashworth still on gardening leave, there's a power void at United. Brailsford was the brain behind the disastrous 2022-2023 Nice campaign and probably had a say in the 'lets interview every manager in the world only to confirm the manager' trainwreck which only contributed in weakening the manager's grip on an already volatile squad. Its only fair and understandable that ETH is milking this U-Turn to gain as much power as possible and bring as many loyal people to his side.