De Ligt | €45+5m agreement reached pending medical | Signed!

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OmarUnited4ever said:
I'll give you they are not as slow as Maguire, but they aren't very quick too or anywhere near Walker in terms of pure pace, and as you said they thrive in reading the game but on pure pace, aside from Walker, they aren't catching many of the quick forwards if they depended on their pace, and if City style wasn't dominant, they would certainly struggle against facing constant attacks without sitting deep, if you want to deploy a high line defense, control is a key aspect, that's my point, having a fast CB is a huge plus but not a key in playing high line defense
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I mean all of them are quick. Of course no one is as fast as Walker, he's one of that fastest footballers in recent history. But there's a reason Pep has no issues playing them that high and wide, they can all deal with defending those spaces very well because they are all pretty quick bar Dias.

Yes you have to control games as well, but acting like none of those City CB's are athletic or comparing them to Maguire is daft.
 
Leftback99 said:
The 'pot' doesn't change at all tomorrow.

We're limited to a far greater extent by how much money we've got (or are willing to spend). Not the rules.
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From midnight tomorrow… it does.

And obviously, by “pot”, I mean what the spending rules allow.

And we’ve got plenty of cash. £97m per last set of accounts.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
From midnight tomorrow… it does.

And obviously, by “pot”, I mean what the spending rules allow.

And we’ve got plenty of cash. £97m per last set of accounts.
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We won't be spending to the cap of the rules.

We'll spend an amount in line with making us profitable again instead of continuing to make losses.
 
RDCR07 said:
Over 4 years. Not twice in 2 years. That’s a big difference. One was a shoulder injury which shouldn’t really affect him going forward.
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The latest one was knee though…..

That’s my only concern with him - fitness. He’s clearly a VERY good player. He’s played for Ajax, Juve and Bayern. If you look at his passing stats they are right up there with Van Dijk and physically he’s got all the attributes you need. He’s also good in the air which we have to have next to Martinez. For those talking about pace I’ve never considered him slow. He’d probably get done by an absolute speedster like Mbappe but he doesn’t usually have any problems there.

good age, good pedigree, knows our manager and goalkeeper. It’s just injurys
 
RDCR07 said:
Over 4 years. Not twice in 2 years. That’s a big difference. One was a shoulder injury which shouldn’t really affect him going forward.
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So in half of the seasons. That is a lot. Plus I have doubts with regards to his pace. We dont need another Lindelof
 
I don't think this is the guy to partner well with Martinez. We need a pacey CB partner to cover his lack thereof. I hope I am wrong if we do get him.
 
VP89 said:
That doesn't mean you make a blanket rule to avoid such signings. You scout and you trust your newly appointed heads to find quality players. If they happen to fall under those categories, you can't get pissy just because less diligence was done in the past under poorly qualified staff.
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So due diligence with De Ligt would be asking.. why would we spend ~£50m and upwards of £300k a week on someone who hasn't even played close to as many minutes of football as Varane did last season.

Why are Bayern happy to sell him? Knowing he had a knee ligament tear early in the season that worryingly reoccurred or flared up again later and kept him out again.

Also, why was he dropped by two different coaches for the Netherlands.

And finally, when you look at the profile of CBs the club have been linked with and heavily scouted (Branthwaite, Guehi, Tapsoba, Todibo etc), does it make sense to pivot to De Ligt?
 
hobbers said:
So due diligence with De Ligt would be asking.. why would we spend ~£50m and upwards of £300k a week on someone who hasn't even played close to as many minutes of football as Varane did last season.

Why are Bayern happy to sell him? Knowing he had a knee ligament tear early in the season that worryingly reoccurred or flared up again later and kept him out again.

Also, why was he dropped by two different coaches for the Netherlands.

And finally, when you look at the profile of CBs the club have been linked with and heavily scouted (Branthwaite, Guehi, Tapsoba, Todibo etc), does it make sense to pivot to De Ligt?
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You are making up numbers and getting angry about them, you do know that right? I don't think anyone wants De Ligt at £50m and 300k a week. If we bought him those won't be the numbers.
 
VP89 said:
Lindelof can't stay fit, and nor can Maguire. You can't play unfit players in a high line, because it's a lot more physically demanding than playing in a low block. And Wan Bissaka could never play in a high line.

Maguire by the way was never that good in the few times he did play in a high line. He flopped terribly under Ole after a decent first season, and he didnt' play in as high a line at Leicester. Lindelof played in a low block for Jose which was his best phase for us. Now you have two players who were never that great in a high line, but thats immaterial because they cant stay fit either, which means its all redundant.

So yes, they can't play in a high line. It's astounding this has to be literally spelt out for you.
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I’ve seen games from us even this season few times we’ve played a high line with the current crop of defenders we have (vs Chelsea, vs Aston villa, vs Barca for example) and we defended well and under Ole as well.

Strange you’re calling these defenders unfit. They weren’t unfit under Ole
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
I’ve seen games from us even this season few times we’ve played a high line with the current crop of defenders we have (vs Chelsea, vs Aston villa, vs Barca for example) and we defended well and under Ole as well.

Strange you’re calling these defenders unfit. They weren’t unfit under Ole
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We defend poorly against Villa and Chelsea :lol:. If youre referring to the 2-1 win over Villa, only Maguire played that game, he had Licha, Shaw and Dalot around him which helped navigate the high line, but we still got lucky to win.

Barca was last season and it was Varane-Licha, who are the only two players who can play a high line.

I'm calling the unfit defenders unfit, because theyr'e getting on in age and needed surgery. And when they did play a higher line they weren't great. Maguire was terrible in Ole's final season. Lindelof's best phase for us was under Jose Mourinho, who plays a low block.

So yes, they can't play a high line.
 
Quality control
VP89 said:
We defend poorly against Villa and Chelsea :lol:. If youre referring to the 2-1 win over Villa, only Maguire played that game, he had Licha, Shaw and Dalot around him which helped navigate the high line, but we still got lucky to win.

Barca was last season and it was Varane-Licha, who are the only two players who can play a high line.

I'm calling the unfit defenders unfit, because theyr'e getting on in age and needed surgery. And when they did play a higher line they weren't great. Maguire was terrible in Ole's final season. Lindelof's best phase for us was under Jose Mourinho, who plays a low block.

So yes, they can't play a high line.
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Alright mate. You’re right. They are incapable of playing a high line. I’m not about to engage in a back and forth with an ETH sexual
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
He's on that kind of wage at Bayern
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I don't think he's on £300k. Closer to 250k.

I also don't see us buying him for £50m. If the concern with De Ligt is 1) wages and 2) injury record then I'd not have any issues. My gripe is more with posters who claim he isn't very good, that he wasnt very good for Bayern or that he's not suited to playing proactive football.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Alright mate. You’re right. They are incapable of playing a high line. I’m not about to engage in a back and forth with an ETH sexual
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My view on 2 crocks and 1 guy who can't dribble past a lamp post being ill suited to a high line last season has feck all to do with the manager.

You've referenced games we actually defended very badly in, or games that these players never even played in to drive a made-up narrative that they play well in a high line. Then you tried to make it about the manager, which sums your post quality up. Good work.
 
hobbers said:
So due diligence with De Ligt would be asking.. why would we spend ~£50m and upwards of £300k a week on someone who hasn't even played close to as many minutes of football as Varane did last season.

Why are Bayern happy to sell him? Knowing he had a knee ligament tear early in the season that worryingly reoccurred or flared up again later and kept him out again.

Also, why was he dropped by two different coaches for the Netherlands.

And finally, when you look at the profile of CBs the club have been linked with and heavily scouted (Branthwaite, Guehi, Tapsoba, Todibo etc), does it make sense to pivot to De Ligt?
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Literally all of those CBs are completely different profiles, prices and have their own issues. So yeah, it does makes sense to pivot to De Ligt when he's clearly available, at a price we can afford and of high quality.
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Alright mate. You’re right. They are incapable of playing a high line. I’m not about to engage in a back and forth with an ETH sexual
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:lol: :lol:

Such an immature response. That poster has presented their argument on why they don't think those players cannot play in a high line all the while you just 'claim' they can without providing any of your own arguments on why.

You're having a mare here.
 
Oh the mythical ETH meltdown is being carried into all our future prospective signings threads as well. Same posters moaning about same issue in every thread.
 
Escobar said:
So in half of the seasons. That is a lot. Plus I have doubts with regards to his pace. We dont need another Lindelof
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Again that’s not the definition of injury prone. Varane missed double digit games in like 3-4 consecutive seasons. That’s injury prone. Missing 6 games due a knee injury and 3 games due to a knock isn’t injury prone.
 
hobbers said:
You're right, he'll probably demand a fair whack higher than £300k given that he's earning about £265k a week at Bayern right now, and big money transfers mean wage bumps.
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You're literally making things up and winding yourself up about it.
 
It would be a purposefully dense to not see why there's obvious worries and parallels between this target and ones of the past. I can totally get peoples doubts.
 
saik said:
:lol: :lol:

Such an immature response. That poster has presented their argument on why they don't think those players cannot play in a high line all the while you just 'claim' they can without providing any of your own arguments on why.

You're having a mare here.
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Yeah it’s a lazy response. But I like what I saw when we won against Chelsea and Villa this season and the first leg against Barca. It was high pressing and we went toe to toe with these quality teams using these current defenders
 
It seems like people have forgot what the purpose is of playing in a higher defensive line or just think it's cool to talk about wanting to play in a higher defensive line.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have reservations about de Ligt. But for me those reservations are more to do with his injury record, and if Jason Wilcox is fine with that, then I'd like to see us sign the player because he is a fit from a footballing pov.

M. de Ligt has always played in teams who implement high defensive lines with the exception of Juventus. And the purpose of a higher defensive line is to squeeze the pitch by playing in a compact high block with the last line (CBs) closer to the half way line backing up the midfield and forwards who are active in applying a well coordinated high press. And it can only be a well coordinated high press if you're compact as a unit from back to front. So the CBs will have to step into the vacated space and go 1v1 in the channels but they will have support from either the DM or both the DM and a 3rd CB. From what I've seen of de Ligt he doesn't struggle at all in a higher defensive line and imo that's due to him being quick over the first few yards and also him being strong at winning duels. And then when you factor in his ability on the ball, it does make sense to sign him from a pov of developing the team to play a more proactive brand of football.

If you have a backline that consists of de Ligt and Martinez, then that is a backline that can play the type of football that has been w missing with us for a long time. We also have capable fullbacks in-possession with Shaw and Dalot, so the first line looks geared up for possession football including the GK which looks like a big turn around from the options we had a few years ago as far as implementing more control in possession.

I think if they also got Branthwaite on top of that, then there's real potential and flexibility as far as what can be developed. I think if we signed both de Ligt and Branthwaite, the potential of seeing all three of de Ligt, Martinez and Branthwaite is a real possibility in games. And then if they can also sign a midfielder who is dominant both in the air and on the ground where he can eat up ground quickly, it will take us to another level. The team will then have the qualities to progress the play from all across the deeper areas of the pitch and will be backed up by strong duel winning capability.
 
VP89 said:
I don't think he's on £300k. Closer to 250k.

I also don't see us buying him for £50m. If the concern with De Ligt is 1) wages and 2) injury record then I'd not have any issues. My gripe is more with posters who claim he isn't very good, that he wasnt very good for Bayern or that he's not suited to playing proactive football.
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I'd be flabbergasted if we didn't give him a raise on his current wage, but Germany has a really high tax bracket so I do wonder how bad the damage will be.

I think he's a very good player, and fits this manager like a glove. His injury record is a concern as we could really do with a few robust players for a couple seasons!
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Our pot increases from tomorrow (the rolling 3-year calc changes) and remember that transfer fees are amortised.

So if we had £30m PSR ‘allowance’, we can buy a £100m player on a 5-year contract and pay him £200k/wk. The fee is amortised to £20m per year and wages are £10m per year.

(*NB* very simplistic example I appreciate.)
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The rules for carried losses are just so stupid and fingers crossed they get binned soon.

A net loss of £100m for United is not equivalent to a £100m loss for, let's say, Sheffield United, for example.

Same goes for all businesses. Larger companies routinely book billions in impairment / one off charges yet are still incredibly cash rich, whereas highly leveraged companies can default on debt after a 10% drop in revenue.
 
croadyman said:
So who does raise that technical ability?
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I really don't know, nobody springs to mind. We need a Carrick type of deep lying midfielder capable of both dictating play and being defensively sound. These days, they are a rare commodity so maybe we just have to make do.

I just fear that Ugarte is more akin to another Fred. Tenacious, aggressive and all that good stuff, but very limited on the ball. Granted, I've only seen him play a few times in the CL, but thought he was pretty average looking, and not all that surprised he lost his place for PSG.

Joao Neves could become that player, but it's a tall ask for an 18 year old to hit the ground running in the PL, and the asking price is insane.

Joao Gomes at Wolves is a better player and has more to his game than Ugarte from what I have seen, for example.

As for CB, I think De Ligt is good enough on the ball to not be an issue beside Martinez. Branthwaite I haven't seen enough but I think he looks fundamentally sound. I'm not overly stressed about our CB's not being as good as Hummels on the ball, or whoever, but we're very reliant on Martinez and Shaw at playing out from the back so we do need someone who has at least the base qualities needed for a top club that want to chase trophies.
 
Leftback99 said:
The funny thing is there were many here convinced Kim was the answer for us last summer - hasn't he lost his spot to Eric Dier?
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Kim did struggle to settle into Bayerns system, but I don’t think his career is comparable to De Ligt.

Kim had a very late rise while De Ligts talent has been obvious since he was 16 and in the first team.
 
Tony247 said:
Juve signed him. In three years they sold him to Bayern for less than what they paid for. Now Bayern trying to dump him within two years. At this rate he will have Lukaku like grand career as a defender. And player is judged by his form + fitness. I have no doubt either one or both have gone downhill for bayern now have decided to offload him.
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Juve only sold him because De Ligt wanted to leave. Juve were on a rapid decline and were looking to sell any of their top players. De Ligt was the only player they were able to fetch good money for and his price only decreased because of his contract situation.

Please don’t be so misinformed.
 
He’s good in the air which is paramount for anyone paired with Martinez. Assuming we’ve moved on from the suicidal midfield and Mainoo/Ugarte or whoever else gives our back line more protection I think the pace in our CB pairing will be adequate.
 
It’s perfectly reasonable for people to not like or want a player, but the issue we have repeatedly on this forum is once someone makes a comment regarding a players trait, people who have not watched the player often will piggy back of it and then we end up with a thread of people making incorrect judgements.

There are also your football manager fans who want us to bring in a random centre back from a mid table French club because he has decent stats on FM24 or they’ll check out Whoscored website.

Some of the names I frequently hear mentioned here are Yoro and Diomande. Well the club is actively pursing Yoro, but it seems like his head is with Madrid. We can’t change that. And Diomande is not good enough to be our starting RCB at his current ability. He is a very good talent, but he is probably 24 months away from starting at a challenging PL club.

I have seen people on here moan about Branthwaite being Maguire 2.0 and now De Ligt being Maguire 2.0, the club simply cannot win.

We need a leader, we need a player who is about to enter his prime, we need an experienced winner at the highest levels, we need someone who is very strong in tackles and very good in the air. That is De Ligt.
 
There's so many red flags about this signing.

Top clubs tend not to let elite players go by choice, Bayern deeming him surplus to requirements would be red flag 1. Another giant salary player being the second issue, bringing in another £250k, £300k per week salary player seems like a Woodward era type move. Thirdly we're yet again going back to Ten Hag's list of former players/Dutch players/Eredivisie players, which hasn't exactly worked out great for us so far. Lastly, we really need a fast centre back to partner Martinez. Martinez/De Ligt pairing is painfully slow.

Of course there's some positives in terms of technical quality and age profile.

But overall, I've seen enough of slow centre backs over the last few years to last me a life time.
 
I don’t see why we would pay so much to someone who didn’t make the grade at Bayern
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I mean all of them are quick. Of course no one is as fast as Walker, he's one of that fastest footballers in recent history. But there's a reason Pep has no issues playing them that high and wide, they can all deal with defending those spaces very well because they are all pretty quick bar Dias.

Yes you have to control games as well, but acting like none of those City CB's are athletic or comparing them to Maguire is daft.
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I didn't even once compare them to Maguire and I don't think they are as quick as you say especially Stones and Akanji, they aren't slow bar Dias,, they might deal with a quick forward, using strength and other ways instead of competing with those forwards in a foot race but they aren't considered fast like Van der Veen Rudiger.

Not to needlessly continue this back and forth, I think we both agree that control is a key element in being able to play high defense line and you don't need a speed demon CB to play high defense line but obviously a slow cb (aka Maguire) will not help at all.

and back to the main topic, I don't think De Ligt is worth the money he will cost (I am assuming BM will demand €50-60m, plus I hear he is on high wages and he will obviously demand it)
 
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