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Indeed, the various data driven statistical analysis metrics of performance that have been used throughout this thread are more obviously much more critical on Manchester United goalkeepers than those of any other clubs. Great point which I hadn't considered.
No, I'm saying he's the best keeper for Man United.
Yeah "stats schmats", that's why we had nearly as many analysts as players at the Nou Camp last week.
Oooh, 9% of crosses. Imagine all the trophies we'll win.
No but certain stats obsessed posters will insist you are
What you should be asking is how a goalkeeper with ball playing ability will aid the development of a play-style that Erik ten Hag wants to implement. And it's that play style which will eventually lead to us being a team that has the potential to control all phases of play, hence the likes of Klopp and Guardiola have had sustained success due to signing Allison and Ederson.
And he didn't even kick it straight, the ball moved like this.. how on earth did he do that?He's so laughably bad at distribution - zero composure under pressure. Instead of opening up his body to pass to Varane or Bissaka he boots (badly) it straight to Sergi Roberto.
And he didn't even kick it straight, the ball moved like this.. how on earth did he do that?
That would be egregious if it were true.
I've already pointed out why these stats are bollox.
Disagree. I think he's won us loads of points this season. That's the consensus amongst pundits too
Ball playing GK can help in both scenarios. In attack he will start a quick counter (that's why coming for crosses IS important). De Gea usually dwells on the ball until everyone takes their positions and the chance is gone.
This. I understand this line of defence, but him being a top shot stopper is no longer the case.
The pundits point is a hilarious thing to say to back your point, pundits are generally known to be clueless and casuals about the sport. I’d rather trust the analysts, and my own eyes. Once you understand that many many goalkeepers can make the save De Gea makes, you’ll realise he’s not ‘saving’ us, he’s just there in goal. Stats back this up. Eye test back this ups (unless you’re obviously turned on by camera saves)
You fail the eye test if you haven't been a little bit turned around after seeing his saves lately. He is making it look easy, but it's not. Sometimes he get too much praise for basic saves, because the team play bad but these days all the credit goes to our outfield players despite him being an absolute wall when time calls for it.
I don't think I'd even be that generous. The save from Kounde was a decent one but it wasn't in the category of saves other goalkeepers couldn't make. The pass he made was entirely brainless and could've easily cost us the tie on another night.
I get the compete opposite impression. His saves look effective but when I look closely, usually it's a save that I would expect decent keeper to make.
I'm sure Dave would happily swap his trophy cabinet over the past 5 years with Ederson tbf.
Yes I think you are because you're looking at it the wrong way. Nobodies looking at a ball playing goalkeeper as a creator of goals. Sure it happens now and again from the likes of Ederson (who in fairness is distribution above all else as a goalkeeper and not the way to go IMO) and Alisson when they hit longer balls forward; but that isn't what they are there to do. The purpose of a ball playing goalkeeper is to allow your defence to play higher up the pitch because you know the goalkeeper will sit in the space in behind the defenders and sweep balls over the top; this works three fold, a) when you're in possession offensively the defenders can play higher and compress the play with more players in a smaller space which benefits the clubs trained to play close compact football like City & Liverpool over the last few years, b) in transition where teams win the ball back and realise the higher line team are pressed high their only option is to hit a long ball in behind, goalkeeper picks up possession and team are back on the attack, c) when team are playing high and are being pressed by the opposing attackers, the goalkeeper becomes an option to pass to to relieve pressure and build again.
very succinct and well made point, will be ignored though because stats are satans work according to some. You are either a good honest shot-stopping keeper who boots it long or you are a pansy continental ball player who can’t stop a pea roller.
Yes, I am a casual of the sport. What are you? A professional fan?
I think it's the fact that the same 6 or 7 people make the same points every 3 or 4 days that make us think there is an agenda.
I'm just pointing out the grey areas in stat keeping.
And City won those trophies because Ederson collected 1 out of every 11 crosses he faced.
Yep my agenda is defending our legendary goalie from hypercriticism. Guilty
I get what you mean, looking at some examples I do see your point but my point is based on also considering his initial positioning as the main thing that makes those saves look easy. Then he makes them look cool if he wants to. His positioning and reading of potential shots is great, he has control over shots he has no right to reach, much like someone like Neuer. He isn't perfect but hey I'm here to give him his dues right now because I can be too critical of him as well.
Which part is the hypercriticism though?
