[romufc]

Not saying we should not look for another keeper at all, but reading some posts, you would think changing only keeper we would somehow gain some magical 100% control improvement which is silly.

No Ofcourse not. The same way a ST wont change us magically either and become title challengers.

IMO the Keeper is just as important as signing a ST, however, I do appreciate that most of our spending should be on a ST and we can buy a cheaper keeper.

If we want our team to keep the ball, we need both really because at the moment, we have no hold up play ST, which allows teams to press us knowing our forwards cant deal with a difficult ball into the chest or feet.

 

[Sultan]

I think it's time to cut loose with De Gea.

De Gea has for too long made the goal line his very own comfort zone which does not always work. Goalkeeping has now moved on over the last decade. They need to be good with their feet, have a commanding presence and be a good reader of the game beyond the 6-yard box.

 

[Gordon Godot]

I think it's time to cut loose with De Gea.

De Gea has for too long made the goal line his very own comfort zone which does not always work. Goalkeeping has now moved on over the last decade. They need to be good with their feet, have a commanding presence and be a good reader of the game beyond the 6-yard box.

Agreed he just has to go. Weak and poor positioning, he will just get worse from here.

 

[Kostov]

Do you think if we had a 9 yesterday it would have made a difference in the way the game was played?

If we had a keeper who can pass a football then we could have had more control in the game.

Since we are talking about "modern" football, yeah a MODERN number 9 would have made a massive difference.

If we had Allison on goal, the long precise passes would have still landed on Rashford, Sancho or Bruno who got dominated in every single duel. And the short passes would have gotten to someone like Fred or Eriksen, who struggled to do anything significant with the ball.

Yeah, a modern striker would have made a massive difference, Christ maybe even a Lukaku would have been better than what we actually had.

 

[Sultan]

We have international-class defenders and a lot of times they are under unwarranted pressure due to De Gea not wanting to come off his line or command his area at corners and free kicks.

I'm not too fussed with the errors he has made recently. This happens to all keepers and mistakes are generally magnified many folds at United.

 

[K Stand Knut]

How do we get the ball into the new CM or ST though? How do we progress from back to front?

If we are still relying on floaty humps into midfield and second balls (with De Gea that is the only plan against any half decent side) than a new ST or CM won't make much difference with retention or control in those games and they will still be fed of the scraps of the second balls.

Well, the idea presumably is to play out through all outfield players so through our CBs and FBs, which I expect to improve.

And, hopefully, like I said, we’ll have the ball more so the ball being played out through the GK from our penalty area will be less and less.

 

[Shinjch]

Can only think we aren't getting rod of him because the manager is worried about being backed properly over the summer for a proper clear out again.

We won't be winning any of the top honours with him in goal anymore.

 

[Kostov]

That makes zero sense.

For one thing, Ortega is a back-up keeper who cost City nothing in transfer fees (meaning we should also be able to sign a decent keeper of that quality without breaking the bank) while Stones was signed for £47m.

And secondly, if Casemiro had had as bad a season as DDG, then yes, I’d agree that he’d need to be replaced. But he clearly hasn’t, so I obviously don’t.

It was a lazy comparison just like the DDG and Ortega one. Ortega was a part of team collective that absolutely outplayed us on every piece of grass out there. Midfielder was overrun like amateurs, Haaland outmuscled and bullied our two CBs and midfielders, and out attack the less said the better.

You can put Allison in that side, and Eriksen, Fred, Bruno and Casemiro would have done feck all against Stones, Rodri, KDB and Gundogan. City scored 36 more goals in the league not because they had Ederson and Ortega while we had DDG. Let's be a bit realistic here. The likes of Bruno and Eriksen are not fit to lace KDB and Gundogan boots.

 

[romufc]

Since we are talking about "modern" football, yeah a MODERN number 9 would have made a massive difference.

If we had Allison on goal, the long precise passes would have still landed on Rashford, Sancho or Bruno who got dominated in every single duel. And the short passes would have gotten to someone like Fred or Eriksen, who struggled to do anything significant with the ball.

Yeah, a modern striker would have made a massive difference, Christ maybe even a Lukaku would have been better than what we actually had.

Who's talking about "Modern" football?

If we had Allison in goal, we would not have conceded the 2nd goal and we would have kept the ball more. You are acting as if none of our players can pass or run onto a football.

The thing what you don't understand is a player who can pass a ball better plays the ball into positions where the duels are not 50/50, they get played where the played receiving can control the ball.

Instead DDG just hoofs it and hopes for the best. There was times in the game where he had a pass and hoofed it to Ortega instead.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I was watching highlights of us beating Chelsea in the League cup from a few years ago, no idea why I was, and it showed Chelsea getting a corner at the very end of the match and as it's crossed in Romero comes off his line and catches the ball. He takes responsibility, he's decisive , he stops any danger and the ref blows for FT and we've won.

Something so basic and yet it struck me how you fecking NEVER see De Gea do this.

It's just absurd we're in a situation where our Keeper refuses to do something so basic and fundamental. A huge part of his job that he just will not do. It's insane

 

[TheLittleOne]

He can’t seem to player a simple pass out under minimal pressure, let alone when he’s out under direct pressure, he just hoofs it long even when we have no real prospect of winning the ball as 99% of our forward hate challenging for the ball.

Im sure there are players out there that could do better than our guys but the real problem is the high long ball itself as it puts our players at a disadvantage. Its so much easier for the opponent to walk forwards into the ball than for our players who have to look back where the ball is coming from and/or even walk backwards. It's not surprising we lose the ball 9/10 times. The only time this works well is on a counter and the other teams defenders are high up the pitch and you can run in behind. Its a -EV play plain and simple.

 

[Sultan]

I was watching highlights of us beating Chelsea in the League cup from a few years ago, no idea why I was, and it showed Chelsea getting a corner at the very end of the match and as it's crossed in Romero comes off his line and catches the ball. He takes responsibility, he's decisive , he stops any danger and the ref blows for FT and we've won.

Something so basic and yet it struck me how you fecking NEVER see De Gea do this.

It's just absurd we're in a situation where our Keeper refuses to do something so basic and fundamental. A huge part of his job that he just will not do. It's insane

De Gea has always tried to evade physicality to an extent. Probably the best in the world when it comes to reflexes and saving with his feet.

 

[Kostov]

Who's talking about "Modern" football?

If we had Allison in goal, we would not have conceded the 2nd goal and we would have kept the ball more. You are acting as if none of our players can pass or run onto a football.

The thing what you don't understand is a player who can pass a ball better plays the ball into positions where the duels are not 50/50, they get played where the played receiving can control the ball.

Instead DDG just hoofs it and hopes for the best. There was times in the game where he had a pass and hoofed it to Ortega instead.

What kind of football do we want our team to play? Mourinho kind of football that so many on here despise? Yes a modern type of football and you clearly understand what I meant.

And how are you sure that Allison would have saved the 2nd goal? Last time I checked he conceded 47 goals this season in the PL, maybe we would have kept the ball more, but to what avail? To struggle to hold on to it when it gets in the City's half or to struggle to progress in from the back or midfield because we have a sub par midfielder like Fred and Eriksen? While Bruno was loosing possessions like a Championship midfielder?

And I pretty much understand what a good passers needs to do, therefor I have stated in a millions different ways especially when I have discussed Fred that he is an appalling passer for example, and let's not get into the ball carriers we have in midfield and attack. We rely on Shaw, an improved AWB and an 18 year old Garnacho to progress the ball, but you think Allison would make a massive difference to this side?

And just like DDG there were plenty of examples of our midfielders and attackers loosing possession in much cheaper way, which I think is much worse than DDG hoofing the ball.

 

[Idxomer]

One thing to consider with De Gea this season is that him trying his absolute best to change as a keeper in a contract year. He tried to be better with his distribution and sweep more and still was far from good enough and showed more signs of decline as a shot-stopper.

Keepers with his stature who rely so much on their reflexes don't usually stay long at the top level. Casillas also started to be a joke like De Gea at a similar age though the latter has been in decline longer.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Im sure there are players out there that could do better than our guys but the real problem is the high long ball itself as it puts our players at a disadvantage. Its so much easier for the opponent to walk forwards into the ball than for our players who have to look back where the ball is coming from and/or even walk backwards. It's not surprising we lose the ball 9/10 times. The only time this works well is on a counter and the other teams defenders are high up the pitch and you can run in behind. Its a -EV play plain and simple.

While I agree, there are still plenty of forwards who don’t mind the physicality and can win a long ball, it makes our situation even harder when we basically don’t have that at all.

 

[romufc]

What kind of football do we want our team to play? Mourinho kind of football that so many on here despise? Yes a modern type of football and you clearly understand what I meant.

And how are you sure that Allison would have saved the 2nd goal? Last time I checked he conceded 47 goals this season in the PL, maybe we would have kept the ball more, but to what avail? To struggle to hold on to it when it gets in the City's half or to struggle to progress in from the back or midfield because we have a sub par midfielder like Fred and Eriksen? While Bruno was loosing possessions like a Championship midfielder?

And I pretty much understand what a good passers needs to do, therefor I have stated in a millions different ways especially when I have discussed Fred that he is an appalling passer for example, and let's not get into the ball carriers we have in midfield and attack. We rely on Shaw, an improved AWB and an 18 year old Garnacho to progress the ball, but you think Allison would make a massive difference to this side?

And just like DDG there were plenty of examples of our midfielders and attackers loosing possession in much cheaper way, which I think is much worse than DDG hoofing the ball.

Ok, I understood. So conceding goals is purely on the defence? Allison is probably the best keeper in the world, I dont know how you can dispute that but ok.

DDG's kicking is not the only problem, he has cost us in huge games for years now, most knock out games in the last 3/4 years he has cost us with his mistakes.

And yet he is not replaced. At least the players that have cost us in the past have been moved on and Ten Hag is looking to move others on, DDG is high on that list including Fred, McTominay etc..

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

We have international-class defenders and a lot of times they are under unwarranted pressure due to De Gea not wanting to come off his line or command his area at corners and free kicks.

I'm not too fussed with the errors he has made recently. This happens to all keepers and mistakes are generally magnified many folds at United.

I agree. After all, the curse of being a goalkeeper is that, when you screw up, there's no one behind you to mop up your mess. Conversely, goalkeepers often save their teammates' hides as the last line of defence. You're also right that it's sometimes worse at United. I mean, when you score 58 goals in 38 games and goals don't come easy for you, most mistakes at the back can appear to be more costly than they would have under different circumstances. This means that some of the stick De Gea gets recently is a bit OTT. Although, a good chunk of his legendary United status can also be attributed to the one aspect of his game he was really good at during periods when scoring goals wasn't really our forte.

What has changed? After all, as some stats point out, the "modern" goalkeepers don't earn their teams many more points. What kind of yellow fever made Klopp spend 70 million pounds on Alisson? It's the perception of the goalkeeper's role. We’re way past the age when people would look at Valdés and think of him as the weak link in Barcelona's starting line-up because the human brain can't tolerate perfection. As football gradually began moving away from the defensive tactics of the 90s/00s and teams realized that the best way to deal with pressing tactics wasn't to park the bus, but to build out from the back, and, subsequently, the best way to disrupt the opposition's possession game was to move the lines higher, goalkeepers became integral to what their team does on and off the ball. People like to say "goalkeepers job, first and foremost, is to prevent goals" and there's truth to that, but it's also a cliché. It's not the only thing they must do well any more. I'm not saying that Taibi would be OK, had he been good with his feet. But the role has changed dramatically over the years. If we can't acknowledge that, we're getting nowhere.

Some argue, in this sense, that we could swap De Gea and Alisson and not much would change for either us or Liverpool. Wrong. We would get better with Alisson, but we would still need a lot of work to challenge City for the major honours. But this is a grim picture of our state under the Woodward/Glazer administration more than it is an argument in favour of De Gea. Because - and i'm getting back to the price-tag the scousers were willing to pay for their keeper - Liverpool wouldn't be able to reach the same heights with De Gea between the sticks. Their high-line, the risks they take with their positioning etc., not a chance. Admitting it doesn't take away what De Gea has offered this club. But times have changed. The congested areas in the middle of the park and the fight for control has also led to modern FBs spending more and more time in the attacking half of the pitch. Gary Neville is a legend of this club, but had he started his career nowadays, he would stand close to zero chance at building a long and successful career as a right back at this level.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I remember earlier this season I argued with someone that RB was more critical a position than GK but I think I was wrong now.
Honestly DeGea has been absolutely shocking these last few months. He’s cost us games, goals and I think his distribution is actually worse. He just doesn’t seem to be up to speed with the game at all. Reacting slowly to shots or not at all (as seen on Saturday)
Definitely in the camp now to get rid and replace as soon as possible.

 

[arnie_ni]

Does anyone have passing stats for the whole season for the whole team?

Ddg attempted the 3rd most passes in the team on Saturday. I'd like to see how that translate over the season.

 

[JB7]

What kind of football do we want our team to play? Mourinho kind of football that so many on here despise? Yes a modern type of football and you clearly understand what I meant.

And how are you sure that Allison would have saved the 2nd goal? Last time I checked he conceded 47 goals this season in the PL, maybe we would have kept the ball more, but to what avail? To struggle to hold on to it when it gets in the City's half or to struggle to progress in from the back or midfield because we have a sub par midfielder like Fred and Eriksen? While Bruno was loosing possessions like a Championship midfielder?

And I pretty much understand what a good passers needs to do, therefor I have stated in a millions different ways especially when I have discussed Fred that he is an appalling passer for example, and let's not get into the ball carriers we have in midfield and attack. We rely on Shaw, an improved AWB and an 18 year old Garnacho to progress the ball, but you think Allison would make a massive difference to this side?

And just like DDG there were plenty of examples of our midfielders and attackers loosing possession in much cheaper way, which I think is much worse than DDG hoofing the ball.

Well statistically (according to John Harrison's metric which is usually used by pro-De Gea posters as he highlights his shot stopping ability) it would have been saved 4 times out of 5 by the average level Premier League goalkeeper. So you'd imagine the best goalkeeper in the world's chances of stopping it would be even higher.

We rely on players who are able to find space to progress the ball, that is no different to City in fairness, or pretty much any team ever. The difference is how they find space. Because they use the goalkeeper as part of their 11 in possession, they were comfortable splitting their centre backs with and dropping midfielders deep, which gave the goalkeeper more options and stretched the game which in turn obviously allowed for more space for players to progress the ball from more varied posisitons.

This is demonstrated by the two goalkeepers passmaps, pay particular attention to the central short to mid length balls:


So essentially, they were found in space more often because in possession they had an extra player to us and were comfortably starting attacks from deep because of the goalkeepers comfortability in possession. They actually went long in the game as many times as we did, the difference was De Gea accounted for twice as many long balls as Ortega. So because De Gea played so many long balls which City were ready for, and Ortega had the ability to invite the press and therefore wait longer than De Gea to play a pass our midfield which in turn allowed Rodri or Stones to find space behind the player pressing, our players were generally picking up possession under more immediate pressure than theirs so the turnovers were far more likely. They have better players than us, that is not in doubt, but the game is much easier if you can play in space and that is the major difference playing in possession with 11 players vs in possession with 10 players makes.

In addition I found their pressing on goal-kicks particularly interesting as it was more about blocking spaces than actually pressing the goalkeeper. Once the kick was taken to De Gea, Haaland came to the right of De Gea without directly pressing him and they stayed high in the central areas too. This cut off Varane and AWB as we know De Gea cannot play those chipped passes out to the full backs with any consistency and also cut off the central pass to Casemiro for him to spread the play wide as we also know De Gea isn't suited to inviting any kind of press. In turn, knowing his limits in those areas, he was forced to hit the ball long to players who were neither as big nor strong as the defenders directly against them. They were more than happy to let De Gea take as much time as he wanted to make the pass because they knew that he didn't have the ability to find the player they had left in space (more often than not AWB) and the likelihood was that even if he played the long ball to the attackers well, they would regain possession.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[sullydnl]

Does anyone have passing stats for the whole season for the whole team?

Ddg attempted the 3rd most passes in the team on Saturday. I'd like to see how that translate over the season.

In the league this season he's attempted the 7th most passes in our team, completed the 8th most. If you adjust per 90 the players to attempt fewer passes than him are VDB, Martial, Garnacho, Ronaldo, Elanga, Weghorst, Rashford and Pellestri.

 

[arnie_ni]

In the league this season he's attempted the 7th most passes in our team, completed the 8th most. If you adjust per 90 the players to attempt fewer passes than him are VDB, Martial, Garnacho, Ronaldo, Elanga, Weghorst, Rashford and Pellestri.

Ah so Saturday was an outlier then. Could explain how it was so noticeable

 

[romufc]

Well statistically (according to John Harrison's metric which is usually used by pro-De Gea posters as he highlights his shot stopping ability) it would have been saved 4 times out of 5 by the average level Premier League goalkeeper. So you'd imagine the best goalkeeper in the world's chances of stopping it would be even higher.

We rely on players who are able to find space to progress the ball, that is no different to City in fairness, or pretty much any team ever. The difference is how they find space. Because they use the goalkeeper as part of their 11 in possession, they were comfortable splitting their centre backs with and dropping midfielders deep, which gave the goalkeeper more options and stretched the game which in turn obviously allowed for more space for players to progress the ball from more varied posisitons.

This is demonstrated by the two goalkeepers passmaps, pay particular attention to the central short to mid length balls:


So essentially, they were found in space more often because in possession they had an extra player to us and were comfortably starting attacks from deep because of the goalkeepers comfortability in possession. They actually went long in the game as many times as we did, the difference was De Gea accounted for twice as many long balls as Ortega. So because De Gea played so many long balls which City were ready for, and Ortega had the ability to invite the press and therefore wait longer than De Gea to play a pass our midfield which in turn allowed Rodri or Stones to find space behind the player pressing, our players were generally picking up possession under more immediate pressure than theirs so the turnovers were far more likely. They have better players than us, that is not in doubt, but the game is much easier if you can play in space and that is the major difference playing in possession with 11 players vs in possession with 10 players makes.

In addition I found their pressing on goal-kicks particularly interesting as it was more about blocking spaces than actually pressing the goalkeeper. Once the kick was taken to De Gea, Haaland came to the right of De Gea without directly pressing him and they stayed high in the central areas too. This cut off Varane and AWB as we know De Gea cannot play those chipped passes out to the full backs with any consistency and also cut off the central pass to Casemiro for him to spread the play wide as we also know De Gea isn't suited to inviting any kind of press. In turn, knowing his limits in those areas, he was forced to hit the ball long to players who were neither as big nor strong as the defenders directly against them. They were more than happy to let De Gea take as much time as he wanted to make the pass because they knew that he didn't have the ability to find the player they had left in space (more often than not AWB) and the likelihood was that even if he played the long ball to the attackers well, they would regain possession.

Exactly this. People fail to understand what it means to kick out properly. Teams like Brighton do it and their players are not better than ours, they create space which the keeper can pass to.

This is bound to happen, if a team presses a keeper, there will be a spare man and a top keeper who can pass will find the spare man with a good pass. City do that all the time, they feed the ball into a player with space and it almost becomes a transition because you beat the 1st press and its 5 v 5 after.

 

[Kostov]

Well statistically (according to John Harrison's metric which is usually used by pro-De Gea posters as he highlights his shot stopping ability) it would have been saved 4 times out of 5 by the average level Premier League goalkeeper. So you'd imagine the best goalkeeper in the world's chances of stopping it would be even higher.

We rely on players who are able to find space to progress the ball, that is no different to City in fairness, or pretty much any team ever. The difference is how they find space. Because they use the goalkeeper as part of their 11 in possession, they were comfortable splitting their centre backs with and dropping midfielders deep, which gave the goalkeeper more options and stretched the game which in turn obviously allowed for more space for players to progress the ball from more varied posisitons.

This is demonstrated by the two goalkeepers passmaps, pay particular attention to the central short to mid length balls:


So essentially, they were found in space more often because in possession they had an extra player to us and were comfortably starting attacks from deep because of the goalkeepers comfortability in possession. They actually went long in the game as many times as we did, the difference was De Gea accounted for twice as many long balls as Ortega. So because De Gea played so many long balls which City were ready for, and Ortega had the ability to invite the press and therefore wait longer than De Gea to play a pass our midfield which in turn allowed Rodri or Stones to find space behind the player pressing, our players were generally picking up possession under more immediate pressure than theirs so the turnovers were far more likely. They have better players than us, that is not in doubt, but the game is much easier if you can play in space and that is the major difference playing in possession with 11 players vs in possession with 10 players makes.

In addition I found their pressing on goal-kicks particularly interesting as it was more about blocking spaces than actually pressing the goalkeeper. Once the kick was taken to De Gea, Haaland came to the right of De Gea without directly pressing him and they stayed high in the central areas too. This cut off Varane and AWB as we know De Gea cannot play those chipped passes out to the full backs with any consistency and also cut off the central pass to Casemiro for him to spread the play wide as we also know De Gea isn't suited to inviting any kind of press. In turn, knowing his limits in those areas, he was forced to hit the ball long to players who were neither as big nor strong as the defenders directly against them. They were more than happy to let De Gea take as much time as he wanted to make the pass because they knew that he didn't have the ability to find the player they had left in space (more often than not AWB) and the likelihood was that even if he played the long ball to the attackers well, they would regain possession.

Can you please enlighten us what the same stats say about that first goal too?

 

[Eric_the_Red99]

For me, spending money on a new keeper to ‘compete’ with DDG would be the worst of all worlds. It would mean spending money on the transfer, renewing DDG’s contract on crazy wages (less than he’s on now, but still way more than he’s actually worth) and while still having the possibility of DDG being first choice for the foreseeable future - so absolutely no improvement at great expense.

But given this club’s record with things like this, I can definitely see us doing something this stupid.

 

[The Oracle]

A major factor in De Gea's continued presence at Manchester United over the last several seasons (despite his costly errors in the biggest games of them seasons), has been his wages of £375,000 per week.
Every man and his dog knows that De Gea has been on the decline for a number of years now. On that salary, we have had no choice but to continue with him, despite all of his flaws, because no other club would sign him and match those wages.

The same is currently happening with Sancho, we can all see that he is not suited to us, and it is not working out, but he is on £350,000 per week, and we have no choice but to stick with Sancho because no other club would sign him and match those wages (we have another 3 seasons of Sancho's wages, or 4 seasons if we activate the 12 months at the end of the 2025-26 season).

What is absolutely true of both De Gea and Sancho, is that they both lack bravery, and that is a massive flaw in their character, and should not be accepted at Manchester United.
With De Gea he is scared of getting clattered (refuses to collect crosses, even into his 6-yard box), and is afraid to put his body on the line (never dives at the feet of attackers to collect the ball), and they are massive deficiencies for a goalkeeper.

With Sancho he is also afraid to put his body on the line, and pulls out of 50/50 challenges, and has done throughout his first two seasons at the club - heck he was even pulling out of challenges in the FA Cup Final, a really sad sight to see.

The current difference between De Gea and Sancho, is that De Gea is now out of contract, and we are under zero obligation to renew.

Ask yourself this question:
If De Gea was playing for another club, would he currently be on our radar to sign as our Number 1 goalkeeper?

If you answered no, then why on Earth are we even considering renewing his contract, even if it is on reduced terms*

*Reduced terms even down from his current £375,000 per week, down to the reported circa £175,000 per week, would still make him the highest paid goalkeeper in the Premier League, ahead of Alisson (£150,000 per week) and Ederson (£100,000 per week).

 

[Kostov]

Ok, I understood. So conceding goals is purely on the defence? Allison is probably the best keeper in the world, I dont know how you can dispute that but ok.

DDG's kicking is not the only problem, he has cost us in huge games for years now, most knock out games in the last 3/4 years he has cost us with his mistakes.

And yet he is not replaced. At least the players that have cost us in the past have been moved on and Ten Hag is looking to move others on, DDG is high on that list including Fred, McTominay etc..

Who said conceding goals is purely on the defense? It is not, just like that 2nd goals wasn't purely on DDG. DDG has cost us plenty of times in the past, so have the majority of the players in that team. From Shaw to Bruno. And yes I also want DDG replaced, but I pity the likes of you who think that a new GK never mind any semi decent GK who plays better with the ball at his feet will improve us significantly when you have to resort to the likes of Weghorst, Fred, Sancho and Antony, and you have a starter like Eriksen.

A striker, a midfielder and probably even a winger are a must with only probably the winger a lesser priority.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

The over 100 goals we have conceded in the last 2 seasons in its full despair.
Watch. We have a very deep rooted issue in our beloved club.

 

[Ludens the Red]

The over 100 goals we have conceded in the last 2 seasons in its full despair.
Watch. We have a very deep rooted issue in our beloved club.

Blimey. Some of those goals. The amount he gets beaten at the near post. The amount of times he’s glued to his line for no reason.
The amount of times he gets a hand to the ball but then it goes in anyway.

 

[Tony Clifton]

Im not gonna put too much time into this, but this was a discussion I had with friends on Whatsapp regarding DDG through the season (and previously) and how much of a liability hes been for United over the years despite some outstanding performances here and moments. (but as @Kag put it, he thrives in chaos, like a keeper at a bottom half club whos bombarded with shots and plays with backs against the wall). But when it comes to important moments... well...

So just going to pull it from there and show that everybody who keeps saying hes a top shot stopper or keeps bringing up 'mentality to play for United' are bonkers.
When it comes down to crunch moments, hes let us down in so many ways. A LOT for a keeper that is the highest paid by a significant amount:

Keep in mind im not going to talk about the issues hes had with Spain. Im also not going to take into consideration the couple of seasons whilst Ferguson was here. Nor league games overall (eg where we were going for top four). These are just tournaments (mostly knockout games) where its win or go home (so an extension of @Tony Clifton post from a few pages ago)

(Im sure you can find pictures / videos of the games mentioned below to see yourself - or ignore as some often do)
League Cup 13/14 Semi Final:
We are winning 1-0 against Sunderland in extra time (2-2 on aggregate but going through on the weird away goals). 119 minute he lets a goal go in (his fault). We equalise but lose on penalties.

Fa Cup 14/15 Quarter Final
Bad back pass by Valencia? But WTF was that challenge against Welbeck? I remember being at that game. Although most forgive him and say 'well hes not brave so...'

FA Cup 15/16 Final
The goal we conceded. A near post goal that a top goalkeeper should be saving. Thankfully we won this one

Europe League 15/16 Round 16
The Coutinho goal. Watch it again, he makes himself as small as possible and gets beaten (near post again. Right before half time and kills us (albeit we were horrible first le, but at 2-1 were still in it)

EFL Cup final 16/17
We had to score three goals despite leading 2-0. Watch his goalkeeping for the first goal. But maybe im being too harsh , but having a 'top shot stopper' should see us not concede this.

CL 17/18 Round 16
He pushes a header into his own net instead of out of the goal.

CL 18/19 QF
He lets a messi right foot shot from outside the box go under him to kill the tie for good.

Europa 19/20 Semi*
iirc Romero was our keeper through this tournament. We made it to the semi final against Sevilla. Needless to say we got knocked out. I wont fully blame this on DDG though cos our defence was a shambles ( only remember them having like two chances) whilst we missed countless chances

Fa Cup 19/20 Semi Final
Again, DDG comes in for Romero who was our keeper through the tournament. Cost us the first two goals.

CL 20/21 Group stage:
United vs Leipzig
We just needed a draw to go through. We lost 3-2. Look at their third goal... How can you actually make yourself as small as possible in a one on one position.

EL 20/21 Final
DDG became our 'cup' keeper as Henderson took over first choice.
In the final, I wont give him much grief for not saving a penalty, we know what to expect. And his own penalty miss is what it is.
But Villareal had a free kick nearer to the half way line than our goal, it landed on the six yard line, (where DDG started but some reason backed off) and then was beaten at his near post.

EL 22/23 QF
This was a few days ago so we all know....

(Keep in mind, the above doesnt take into consideration moments where he got away, like the one against Barca, or the one against PSG)

Hammerings. Hes been a consistent in a number of our hammerings (anything by 4 goal difference unless opposition scored more than 5 below):

4-0 MK Dons
4-0 Everton
4-0 Brighton
4-0 Chelsea
4-0 Brentford
6-1 Spurs
5-0 Liverpool
6-3 City
7-0 Liverpool
(Ones I can think of top of my head and a lot of these have been in recent times.)

His weaknesses are there for all to see. He is so meek, and ive never seen a keeper shirk challenges like him. He has no presence: whenever I go to games, you hardly see him communicating with his defence (mostly just moaning).
Ive never actually see a goalkeeper of ours (or any top team) pretend to get hurt, then turn his back to play so that the opposition can score. Unbelievable.
Hes had so many different defenders in front of him, survived several managers, different coaches, and been dismissed by several national team managers (as pretty much fifth choice at best) and yet there are still some people in 2023 (never mind from 2020) who believe we should have him as a first choice goalkeeper (or he should be renewed).

Hes been here for around ten years, hes given us good service , but it says a lot that since 2015 and the failed madrid move, no big team has had their eyes on him. This isnt about 'modern goalkeeping' this is just about having a goalkeeper who is not just decent at stopping shots.

Anyway, agenda and all that!

Impressive tracking, good job! I think most of them are included in these 20 minutes:




There's so many things to extract from that video. I thought I'd find one example to use as the most suitable representation of the problem with De Gea…and it was nearly impossible, since there are just too many to choose from.

However, if I really have to, I'll go with the one at 06:28 when Phil Jones is forced to run back to clear a ball in what should a standard keeper clearing/grabbing action — unless that keeper is De Gea. When was that sequence, 7-8 years ago? Nothing has changed. And our defence still knows this, hence so many of the weird moments that seems unique to us, where we become vulnerable from basically nothing. He changes the way we defend most situations, some of which should not be threatening at all.

Instead he incites panic from what should be standard goalkeeping actions, as in using his hands and having good positioning. Never mind his ability with the feet, which of course is also another problem entirely.

 

[JB7]

Can you please enlighten us what the same stats say about that first goal too?

I don't know, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere - Harrison only drip feeds his information. How come?

 

[Anders Agnalt]

I think it's time for a more modern goalkeeper. With DeGea, we still have uncertainty at the back as the defenders have to backtrack all the way to the 16-yard box instead of relying on the goalkeeper to come out and claim the ball, which would be the case with a sweeper and a modern goalkeeper. We have never had a goalkeeper who stands so passively on the goal line and waits; the goal becomes so big that he always goes down on his knees if the ball doesn't come straight at him. The same can be said for crosses into the 5-yard box; he remains passive every time. DeGea is good, but we need a more mobile goalkeeper who makes the goal smaller and forces the attackers to move wide instead of going straight for the goal.

 

[Idxomer]

Blimey. Some of those goals. The amount he gets beaten at the near post. The amount of times he’s glued to his line for no reason.
The amount of times he gets a hand to the ball but then it goes in anyway.

The amount of times he doesn't attempt to even dive or go for the ball is just criminal. We can forgive a lot of things but the lack of trying isn't one of them. De Gea just gives up way too often and we have seen it over the years a lot.

 

[Remember the geese]

I don't know, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere - Harrison only drip feeds his information. How come?

Because that poster is very defensive of De Gea and if there is a goal out there somewhere that he isn't fully culpable for, then best be sure it will be lauded over us mere plebs who want him kicked to the curb.

 

[Kostov]

I don't know, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere - Harrison only drip feeds his information. How come?

I thought you were the stat king of the DDG thread. I bet some good samaritan can post that stat also.

 

[MadDogg]

I understand the 'anything but de Gea' mentality at the moment, but remember Mark Bosnich, Fabien Barthez, Tim Howard, and Roy Carroll? Replacing a goalkeeper at United is not an easy task. Introducing a 20-year-old de Gea was never a good idea either. It might not be the end of the world to have him as a backup keeper on a short-term basis while bringing in a young keeper. Perhaps De Gea has been a strong ally to EtH in the dressing room during his turbulent first year, but it is evident that there is strong opposition to the deal within the hierarchy.

De Gea's form over the last five years isn't much better than what Barthez, Howard and Carroll showed. Indeed both Barthez and Howard were significantly better in their first seasons, but then dropped off and were inconsistent and made too many mistakes in the following seasons. Just like De Gea has done. The difference is that we quickly sold them and tried again, whereas now our standards have dropped and De Gea is being protected by sentimentality.

Bosnich was a bit different as he got destroyed by injuries pretty much immediately after joining us, constantly struggling with his hamstrings (at least I think it was his hamstrings) and leaving him barely able to kick the ball without pulling something.

 

[romufc]

Who said conceding goals is purely on the defense? It is not, just like that 2nd goals wasn't purely on DDG. DDG has cost us plenty of times in the past, so have the majority of the players in that team. From Shaw to Bruno. And yes I also want DDG replaced, but I pity the likes of you who think that a new GK never mind any semi decent GK who plays better with the ball at his feet will improve us significantly when you have to resort to the likes of Weghorst, Fred, Sancho and Antony, and you have a starter like Eriksen.

A striker, a midfielder and probably even a winger are a must with only probably the winger a lesser priority.

Can you name the games where Shaw and Bruno cost us? I can on the top of my head name Chelsea 2019 goal at OT, Chelsea Semi Final 2020, Barcelona 2019, Sevilla 2023, Man City 23, Leipzig 21 where DDG has made errors costing us in big moments. These are opening goals and deciding goals in games.

Its funny the names you mention because Manutd want to replace Weghorst and Eriksen.

Also, what is wrong with Anotny? It feels like you are just naming players without reason now, because Antony is actually one of the better players when the ball is played to him.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

We have international-class defenders and a lot of times they are under unwarranted pressure due to De Gea not wanting to come off his line or command his area at corners and free kicks.

I'm not too fussed with the errors he has made recently. This happens to all keepers and mistakes are generally magnified many folds at United.

I would agree with you here but because De Gea is so limited in all areas he really has to be exceptional in this aspect. When he’s been making regular mistakes for 5 years now and still has the rest of his deficiencies, I really don’t see what else he’s bringing to the table.

 

[JB7]

I thought you were the stat king of the DDG thread. I bet some good samaritan can post that stat also.

I, nor anybody else that matter, can't give you a stat that hasn't been put out there. It is Harrison's metric and only he can give the information out. I also haven't criticised him for the first goal in any way shape or form. Either way, you asked the question how likely it would have been that Alisson stopped the second goal, not the first, I gave you the data. I don't see how that is relevant to the first goal. It's odd that you've completely ignored the vast majority of my post regarding the benefits of having 11 players in possession rather than 10, and asked for the probability of him stopping a shot that I think the realistic chances of him stopping were pretty low.