If this is somehow true, we can bin next season away.
And it'll likely cost ETH his job.
He should have binned De Gea right away.
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Season Average Rating
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If this is somehow true, we can bin next season away.
And it'll likely cost ETH his job.
He should have binned De Gea right away.
I understand the 'anything but de Gea' mentality at the moment, but remember Mark Bosnich, Fabien Barthez, Tim Howard, and Roy Carroll? Replacing a goalkeeper at United is not an easy task. Introducing a 20-year-old de Gea was never a good idea either. It might not be the end of the world to have him as a backup keeper on a short-term basis while bringing in a young keeper. Perhaps De Gea has been a strong ally to EtH in the dressing room during his turbulent first year, but it is evident that there is strong opposition to the deal within the hierarchy.
Same. I tried to watch that video, came to that point where he just lay on the ground hoping for the play to be stopped just made me angry as feck.
For me, that is the most infuriating thing he has ever done at this club. Just shows how weak he is really.
Optics. Makes it far easier to make the decision.
Yep I said as much a few months ago. Sad because it do think Erik is a very good manager, but keeping De Gea will absolutely be a death knell to his hopes of a future here because we won’t do any better than we did this year and it’s directly his decision.
I don't understand how the situation in the early 2000s is comparable. Shmikes retired, and did so on a high, having a brilliant second half to 98-99. We were replacing a legend, so of course it was easy for things to get worse. De Gea is dealing with a prolonged slump in form that's lasted 5 seasons now, and is being outperformed by many keepers just in our league, never mind in Europe. Even if someone came in and was really bad, we'd be no worse off.
A better lesson would surely be that the best managers don't stick with keepers that can't cut it, and will keep replacing them til they get it right. I can't imagine for a second any player lasting 5 seasons in the first team under Fergie with the form that DDG has shown.
He was dire in the final. I think a top goalkeeper saves at least one of the goals.
His distribution was also awful. I really don't mind him going long but his judment of distance on his kick was the worst I can remember. Just kept booting it all the way back to Ortega, or out for a throw.
He he stays I still hope we bring in a top keeper to give him genuine competition / take the No1 spot.
His distribution was also awful. I really don't mind him going long but his judment of distance on his kick was the worst I can remember. Just kept booting it all the way back to Ortega, or out for a throw.
He he stays I still hope we bring in a top keeper to give him genuine competition / take the No1 spot.
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Their back up keeper Ortega played in this final.
And he was still miles better than DDG. Never panicked when our forwards were closing him down.
How does our club do it? How can someone at our club think De Gea's demands of 200k a week is acceptable? How over the course of 5 years have we not been able to use data that is even available on twitter to see that he is below the current standard in the Premier League? We are not a serious club.
Yes. And there are people who are arguing De Gea would have done the same if he was playing for City, when he has never shown any capability of doing so. Boggles my mind that we are still in discussions to offer him a new contract.
Give him a testimonial for his service over the years and just release him. Him and Martial should be first out of the door this summer.
I dont want to be the only person in the world to stand up for De Gea because I do think we can get a much better keeper. However I do think he is taking all the flak for our playing out from the back. Yes its partly his fault, maybe 60 percent his fault but its also the way the team is set up and the players in front of him. In a well organized play out from the back system the keeper usually just needs to play a very simple passes to the CB who has formed a triangle with the other CB and the midfielder dropping back etc. I see no patterns and no system to our build up. Our CB's just split either side of him and the fullbacks go wide. It is a very crude incomplete system. And then we he goes long who is up there to head the ball or hold it up? Who is he aiming for? Rashford? In a Brighton or City team he would be replaced sharpish but he will not look anywhere near as bad as he does for us. Replacing our keeper is only a part solution
People talk about us needing a ST, which we do but a ST will make no difference in the games where we play teams that can pass better than us.
Liverpool, City, Arsenal, even Brighton will dominate us until we can get a better keeper. He cant play short because he does not back his ability, instead he hoofs it upfield, its not even directed at anyone, its just a close your eyes and lump it and hope for the players to win the 2nd ball.
There is no way we can play Ten Hag's way without a keeper.
Doesn't matter how organised the setup to play out from the back is when your keeper doesn't possess the required skills to play the system, especially when put under pressure, it just won't ever work.
Think it might be out of ten Hag's hands to be honest.
We simply have no money to spend for a gk. Right now. Other positions are more desperate to fill. Reckon next season will be his last. Then they'll replace him. A striker and a mid will already be very costly. it's time for him to leave. But he ain't going anywhere yet. Though its really stupid to sign him a new contract. Put in a cheap release clause or something. Or make it 2 years.
Well, it is until we give him another 2 years at the end of that one.
GK is the most important spot to fill after Striker by a country mile. It's a far bigger priority than midfield.
I like De Gea, and I've been a staunch advocate for him when he's been getting pelters in previous seasons. However, his kicking in the final was absolutely woeful. Against a team like City, who keep and recycle the ball so well, you need to make it count when you have possession. I lost count of the number of times he went long and gave them the ball back straight away.
I also noticed that when we do that daft goal kick routine, whereby the defender plays the ball to De Gea, he dithers on it and that allows the opposition forwards to close him down whereby he'll panic and either twat it long, play a risky pass or just boot it out of play. I watch how easily City play their way out of trouble from the back and how quickly it can go from a goal kick to an attack with just a couple of passes, and I just can't see how we'll ever get that with a keeper who panics. The likes of Shaw, Martinez and to an extent Varane are all capable of playing a pass though a press, Martinez especially, but if the pass to them is either shite, or plays them into trouble, then we've got no chance.
De Gea is arguably one of our top 3 modern keepers ever, but I think it's time to let go. If he wishes to stay and possibly be a number 2, then that's fine, but we really need a top level younger goalie who can play out from the back.
I also noticed that when we do that daft goal kick routine, whereby the defender plays the ball to De Gea, he dithers on it and that allows the opposition forwards to close him down whereby he'll panic and either twat it long, play a risky pass or just boot it out of play. I watch how easily City play their way out of trouble from the back and how quickly it can go from a goal kick to an attack with just a couple of passes, and I just can't see how we'll ever get that with a keeper who panics. The likes of Shaw, Martinez and to an extent Varane are all capable of playing a pass though a press, Martinez especially, but if the pass to them is either shite, or plays them into trouble, then we've got no chance.
De Gea is arguably one of our top 3 modern keepers ever, but I think it's time to let go. If he wishes to stay and possibly be a number 2, then that's fine, but we really need a top level younger goalie who can play out from the back.
He can’t seem to player a simple pass out under minimal pressure, let alone when he’s out under direct pressure, he just hoofs it long even when we have no real prospect of winning the ball as 99% of our forward hate challenging for the ball.
Maybe. Surely he can improve his passing at least. It's so damn bad.
And John Stones looked better in midfield than Casemiro, should we sell Casemiro also?
I can’t agree with this at all.
We have a better midfielder and striker (in theory) and we keep the ball better.
As a direct knock-on effect, de Gea spends less time with the ball at his feet or near him in general and we improve on that basis alone.
I appreciate that this is all a theory but a CM is more important to allow Eriksen to rest more without a drop in quality.
I've said this before but look at the difference Ederson and Allison made to City and Liverpool when they signed for them. Both sides went up a notch.
De Gea is now at the same level as Hugo Lloris, being selected due to his personality and status, despite always being inconsistent - something you don't want in a keeper.
If we don't at least sign a keeper who can challenge De Gea for the number one role this summer then you do have to wonder.
De Gea is now at the same level as Hugo Lloris, being selected due to his personality and status, despite always being inconsistent - something you don't want in a keeper.
If we don't at least sign a keeper who can challenge De Gea for the number one role this summer then you do have to wonder.
Ah. Ok. That’s interesting. And the Ederson data is surprising. I knew he wasn’t a great shot stopper but didn’t know he was that bad.
I guess being a bad shot stopper is less of an issue at a dominant team like city where he won’t face many shots. Similarly, DDG’s attributes might make him a valuable keeper for a lower/mid table club. But a horrible fit for a club with our aspirations, under a manager who likes his team to play out from the back.
So I’m sure ETH would swap the two keepers in a heartbeat, given the chance. Even if those stats paint them out to be both equally average. Which highlights the limitations in Harrison’s analysis. Where he only looks into goals saved and can’t get into the positive effect on the teams overall performance when the keeper can act as an extra man when the ball is passed out of the press.
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You can't stand up for a player earning 375k a week and being a disaster in our big games. Same way you couldn't stand up for Ronaldo when he was missing chance after chance for us early in the year on 500k a week. The club needs to have standards, we are not a charity based on sentamentaility.
Pep got rid of Joe Hart and replaced him with Bravo. And guess what? Bravo was rubbish and he replaced him with Ederson. We need to do the same until we get it right.
Ehh, is that what I said ? I was just correcting that person who mentioned that Ederson was playing.
But sure, if that is what you want. Let's sell him as well if we get good money. He isn't going to get any younger and he is losing some of his pace as well.
Sorry, I mixed up on some other comment it's been a busy morning.
That's one of the most ridiculous things I have read in this thread.
He’s not even that great of a shot stopper anymore to put up with all his other deficiencies, lack of ability to distribute the ball being the prime one.
Whenever it comes to these extensions we are handing out the question I like to ask is where the player would end up if we don’t offer him the contract. In this case I think the realistic answer is either a top half La Liga team, but not one of the CL ones, or a mid-table Premier League side at best. Would we be going after De Gea if he weren’t our player? Most certainly not. Given that I don’t see why we are rushing into giving him a new contract.
Whenever it comes to these extensions we are handing out the question I like to ask is where the player would end up if we don’t offer him the contract. In this case I think the realistic answer is either a top half La Liga team, but not one of the CL ones, or a mid-table Premier League side at best. Would we be going after De Gea if he weren’t our player? Most certainly not. Given that I don’t see why we are rushing into giving him a new contract.
If we don’t sign a new first team GK this summer we might as well settle for 4th again as the goal for next season. A good GK wins you 15 points, De Gea is costing us in every big game and the big teams have started targeting him because he’s that predictable.
That makes zero sense.
For one thing, Ortega is a back-up keeper who cost City nothing in transfer fees (meaning we should also be able to sign a decent keeper of that quality without breaking the bank) while Stones was signed for £47m.
And secondly, if Casemiro had had as bad a season as DDG, then yes, I’d agree that he’d need to be replaced. But he clearly hasn’t, so I obviously don’t.
How do we get the ball into the new CM or ST though? How do we progress from back to front?
If we are still relying on floaty humps into midfield and second balls (with De Gea that is the only plan against any half decent side) than a new ST or CM won't make much difference with retention or control in those games and they will still be fed of the scraps of the second balls.
Pep cycled through a few different full backs too, before finding players that worked. Now we see the result of that relentless desire to build his squad, which are now settled, winning the league every season, and on the cusp of a treble. We renew players that aren’t good enough, and the manager has to make do with what he’s got, giving him one or two of his transfer targets after spending all summer negotiating. This is why we perpetually have “what do we still need” and “getting rid of deadwood” threads on the caf for seasons on end.
Do you think if we had a 9 yesterday it would have made a difference in the way the game was played?
If we had a keeper who can pass a football then we could have had more control in the game.
He is right, what you said is pretty ridiculous. Of course striker would have made a difference, we had good amount of chances.
Another keeper wouldn't magically make rest of the team better in progressing the ball would he? This talk how only changing the keeper would make us have much more control in general is beyond silly. Most of the time, City progressed from the back with their defence, not a fecking keeper. You would think their keeper was pinging balls like Andrea Pirlo all over the place by reading posts in these thread. Having Lisandro available would have made much more difference in control than just having another keeper.
Tis true.
But, to be fair Pep spent about half a billion on full backs. Now he's decided he just doesn't need them anymore. A luxury that other teams just don't have.
What good chances did we have that our ST missed?
Its not silly because even Pep did this, he changed his keeper twice before getting Ederson. If you watched the game properly, you would realise City progressed the ball from the back because our keeper hoofs the ball into them and they can start to play.
If we had a keeper who could pass a football, he would find a red shirt at least.
Well, their keeper was pinging balls and thats where the first goal came from
Evidence...
What good chances did we have that our ST missed?
Its not silly because even Pep did this, he changed his keeper twice before getting Ederson. If you watched the game properly, you would realise City progressed the ball from the back because our keeper hoofs the ball into them and they can start to play.
If we had a keeper who could pass a football, he would find a red shirt at least.
Well, their keeper was pinging balls and thats where the first goal came from
Evidence...
Not saying we should not look for another keeper at all, but reading some posts, you would think changing only keeper we would somehow gain some magical 100% control improvement which is silly.
Also that evidence proves my point, majority of his passes were short to sides of his defence, which is something even De Gea can do if defenders get open in good spots. But I guess it is De Geas fault too when we are too static and can't open.
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