And, it costs a nothing fee, 15mil or something, right?
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 58
- Clean sheets
- 25
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
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[QUOTE="Pogue Mahone, post: 30643873, member: 19580
The incident which starts at 48s really blew my mind at the time. There’s actually a few seconds before the clip starts where DDG is allowed to verrrrrrry slowly dribble the ball towards the edge of the box. The City players make no effort to press him and Lindelof is in absolutely acres of space to his left, even after he ignores Casemiro dropping deep to take the ball of him. What is going through his head when he thinks the best thing to do here is a loft a pass straight onto the head of a city defender? How many times does this have to keep happening before he realises that 9 times out of 10 he is pissing away valuable possession, giving the ball straight back to the opposition? I usually think he’s stressed out by being pressed so defaults to the safest option and hoofs the ball out of the danger area. And I can understand that. What I can’t understand is him making the same decision when he’s not under any pressure at all. So bizarre.
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The long ball only makes sense in two scenarios: either you want to make a quick counter attack or you are under so much pressure its your last resort. And I agree in this cicumstance I like our defenders or keeper to just kick it anywhere as far away from the goal as possible but thats really not the case in way too many cases with De Gea..
The incident which starts at 48s really blew my mind at the time. There’s actually a few seconds before the clip starts where DDG is allowed to verrrrrrry slowly dribble the ball towards the edge of the box. The City players make no effort to press him and Lindelof is in absolutely acres of space to his left, even after he ignores Casemiro dropping deep to take the ball of him. What is going through his head when he thinks the best thing to do here is a loft a pass straight onto the head of a city defender? How many times does this have to keep happening before he realises that 9 times out of 10 he is pissing away valuable possession, giving the ball straight back to the opposition? I usually think he’s stressed out by being pressed so defaults to the safest option and hoofs the ball out of the danger area. And I can understand that. What I can’t understand is him making the same decision when he’s not under any pressure at all. So bizarre.
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The long ball only makes sense in two scenarios: either you want to make a quick counter attack or you are under so much pressure its your last resort. And I agree in this cicumstance I like our defenders or keeper to just kick it anywhere as far away from the goal as possible but thats really not the case in way too many cases with De Gea..
Is he really cheaper tough than any other nr.2? i can see it with a high enough transfer fee but still if hes truly our number 2 hes gonna play 10 games max. we can prettys much get any keeper to do the job for 10 games only. I dont see the point in keeping him for second spot.
Just as I thought, you basically ignored everything I posted which contradicts your point and assumption (which youre stating as fact) to say the exact same thing.
Thanks, and yep, I got the answer I was partially expecting, but in good faith was hoping I wouldnt.
Agreed, with this. Its not just one player dropping deep into spaces to collect the ball, or one one game its happened. This is a result of number of games where you can see our keeper doesnt trust himself. Its not an agenda or anything like that, its just the way we are setting up to try negate all of his weaknesses. Which would be understandable if his pros outweighed his cons.
I try to give people who I havent discussed with the benefit of the doubt to at least provide some new perspective im not seeing. But yeah, you can see, people who defend him are going with the same lines:
-Best reflexes
-Amazing shotstopper
-Other keepers might not have the mentality to play for united
-more pressing matters to address
-Agenda etc.
There are a few people now (olecurls, nlunited) who are either wumming or have bad faith discussions which arent worth it.
The thing is there is no way to actually prove that he made a save "noone else can do" maybe an other keeper would have better anticipation and wouldnt need to make a "save for the TV". just in the game against fulham he made some decent saves and there were people calling it an "absurd save" and i was quietly sitting there thinking: "Man, the shot came straight onto him he had to make a sideway motion of like 2 feet and i expect any premier league keeper to make that save...." to be honest I think most of us would have been able to keep that ball out.
Nobody makes saves nobody else can make. Chances like that don't exist.
The best shot-stoppers just make saves people will often not make, more often. And crucially in De Gea's case, concede goals people rarely let in even more rarely.
I'm sure De Gea's ability to make top-end saves is still very good, because his reflexes and agility are still very good. He is an innately gifted shot-stopper. Unfortunately for him, the mistakes and not-really-mistakes-but-could-do-better goals count towards shot-stopping too.
The best shot-stoppers just make saves people will often not make, more often. And crucially in De Gea's case, concede goals people rarely let in even more rarely.
I'm sure De Gea's ability to make top-end saves is still very good, because his reflexes and agility are still very good. He is an innately gifted shot-stopper. Unfortunately for him, the mistakes and not-really-mistakes-but-could-do-better goals count towards shot-stopping too.
It's so true and it's why I'm amazed he's managed to maintain a reputation as a good shot stopper over the last 5 years when he's been anything but. I'd rather have a keeper who makes less spectacular saves but less mistakes. That pea-roller he conceded against West Ham should be a once in a career type mistake, but he's conceded that exact goal several times over the past 5 years.
"I'm sure De Gea's ability to make top-end saves is still very good" - it's not.
"because his reflexes and agility are still very good" - they're not.
"He is an innately gifted shot-stopper" - he was. He's not anymore.
David De Gea today is deficient in practically every aspect of being a top level keeper.
The part that bugs me the most is that the ball is past his far post yet he is still standing in the middle of the goal. He should at least take a step or 2 to his right. He also doesn't even try to see the ball. He just stands there. The guy is and always has been absolutely horrible at the basics of his position but he used to make up for it with his natural agility. Well now that's nowhere near where it used to be and he is absolutely exposed and a liability
I thought this as soon as the goal went in. It was hit very slowly and would be saved majority of the time
We all know what the weaknesses are in his game, but replacing him is not going to fix all our issues.
All I read is ‚De Gea can‘t do this or that‘ and I see him do it every game. He is not great at playing out the back, but can play it out wide to the full back fine, or even pass it through the lines, which he does regularly.
You cannot make a good analysis if you ignore what you don‘t want to see.
I can‘t tell you in detail what the tactical instructions were for the game against City, but it certainly wasn‘t to try to play out from the back against a high City press.
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Was our xG really higher than City’s?
Yes, but I find xG stats a bit wonky. You can‘t account for everything.
The second goal should have been saved. It went through a few defenders but you can’t dive as laboriously as De Gea did. Should have far quicker to respond to the threat.
Even for the first, fair enough that it was a great strike but I just dislike a keeper standing still not even making an effort. It’s a cup final, you don’t leave any regrets on the pitch. Not related to effort at least.
Even for the first, fair enough that it was a great strike but I just dislike a keeper standing still not even making an effort. It’s a cup final, you don’t leave any regrets on the pitch. Not related to effort at least.
Yea, I'd assume that last minute mess in their penalty box where there were couple of headers we missed, would account for majority of that xG.
To be fair their two goals didn’t come from great chances or anything. I’d say that Garnacho’s chance which went slightly wide was more clear cut than either.
Yea I would definitely say it was. Gundogan's combined xG for both his goals was 0.05 it seems.
You can't let in 2 goals with that xG and continue being called a world class goalkeeper. And he was already shit at all the other basics of being a goalkeeper like claiming crosses, commanding his box and sweeping.
Sadly, it's really time to move him on and with his contract coming to an end this would be the best opportunity to do so.
He can do it but not consistently. And certainly not under pressure. As soon as the press goes on him it's panics stations and hoof it.
The most important factor though is not so much his ability (which is average at best) but his mentality. He dosent want to do it, he dosent want to encourage a team to press to help the team play through it because he is shit scared of making a mistake while doing it. That nervousness is clear to see when it has happened this season so many Underhit/Mishit simple passes. So many hospital passes to his teammates. That nervousness spreads though the rest of team then who clearly don't fully trust De Gea to play out from the back.
Bring in a goalkeeper who is confident and capable with the ball at his feet. And you will see the difference will be night and day. There will be mistakes every team makes them playing out under pressure, but that's the risk as long as you keep going with confidence and competence the rewards will be obvious.
PS and VdS were both doing those things way before DDG so I don't think keeping has changed all that much at all.
Top keepers could always do the sweeping side, poor keepers couldn't.
Unfortunately this means DDG slips into the poor keepers territory overall.
He isn't in the category of PS and VdS and sits slightly above the likes of Lindegaard, Carrol, Barthez and Howard etc.
xG doesn’t work like that. It is simply the chance of a goal being scored from a particular location on the pitch. It doesn’t take into account the quality of the shot I.e. where in the goal it lands, ball trajectory and how hard it’s hit.
For that we have post-shot xG. The only public model I’m aware of is Opta’s. It doesn’t seem to take into account how hard a shot is hit, or the keeper’s time to react, just the location within the goal that the shot lands in. That said their post-shot xG of the two goals are 0.27 and 0.20 respectively. That would imply that the average goalkeeper makes a save 73% and 80% of the time.
John Harrison’s model is more advanced (uses shot power and line of sight) though unfortunately not public. He hasn’t released the figure for the first goal, though he has the second at 0.19, so an 81% save probability for the average Premier League standard goalkeeper. It’s a definite mistake, but xG is not the metric to define it as such.
A Split second prior to the headers, Mctominay's lack of close ball control in the area was the issue. Had he managed to control the ball he would have had an easy chance.
Lindegaard/Carrol/Howard? I mean I want Dave replaced, but he’s at least two tiers above those guys.
It would be inconceivable if long ball instructions were ever given to De Gea.
We had Sancho and Rashford up front. Sancho is a player who evades any physical contact and is hardly ever going to win a header against City defenders. He also lacks the pace to run behind the defence. You can argue Rashford can run behind the defence but City were well aware of his danger and were set up to avoid this happening.
The funniest part was that City intentionally didn’t press De Gea high because they knew his inability to pass would just result in one of their 3 CBs or Stones/Rodri easily beating Rashford or Sancho to an aerial ball. It was like watching the same fail being repeated over and over again.
It’s not the first time De Gea’s been shown up by an opposing teams back up keeper. It happened with Brightons Steele as well. Sad times.
There are a couple of reasons why I think that second goal was savable. Firstly, it was a weak shot which bounced twice before reaching the goal. Secondly, and most importantly I think De Gea's starting position was all wrong. The ball from De Bruyne had long gone past the near post. If he'd just shift a little bit over to his right, that would've been a comfortable save.
The only logical reason I can think of why he didn't move over to his right was because of the crowd of bodies in front of him and he didn't see Gundogan winding up for a shot. He'd be right to wonder why nobody closed Gundogan down as well. It's a shambolic goal to let in from our perspective.
The only logical reason I can think of why he didn't move over to his right was because of the crowd of bodies in front of him and he didn't see Gundogan winding up for a shot. He'd be right to wonder why nobody closed Gundogan down as well. It's a shambolic goal to let in from our perspective.
Really fed up with him. His face has become associated with one of our least successful eras.
I forgot about most of these to be honest
He is I'm talking on a very basic level, in terms of ability remove his one outstanding thing (shotstopping) he isn't leagues ahead of them but he's leagues behind the others.
There is a recurrent theme in the video of him letting shots straight at or under him in. His distribution is woeful and cannot even command his 6 yard box. His fabled shot stopping is on the wane and that was in part a product of the weak defense in front of him. As the defense improves we cant afford to have such an error prone keeper
Yea, I assumed xG would be quality of the chance. For arguments sake even if we take 0.5 as the post shot xG, it's still pretty bad to concede two goals out of it.
His only redeeming quality has been shot stopping over the years and you still saw him let in pearollers during that time and generally being rubbish in high pressure games.
Even a guy like Henderson who may not be as good a shot stopper as De Gea at his peak, will still be better for us due the fact that he's not afraid of collecting crosses and his sweeping ability. Unfortunately he burnt all bridges with the club so not sure if he will ever be a part of our squad again.
On a side note, does anyone know how good that GK(Kovar?) we have on loan at Sparta Prague is? Didnt they win the league? Surely he has a chance to be atleast a backup for us?
415 appearances for the club and he sites slightly above those guys, WTF
Says more about the club, should have gone to Madrid would have been the best thing we had done in recent years.
Having read the responses, it appears DDG has turned into the scapegoat for all of our problems, it was Maguire but as he isnt playing, someone else has to take the mantle because the Caf loves a scapegoat to blame. Also no one is aloud to say anything positive because you just get hounded upon. Reading comments in this thread such as ''worst keeper in the league and has been for years', abomination of a goalkeeper', 'He's shite, really, really properly shite' 'worst player we've had in the last 10 years' and you have to ask yourself, are people who post this gibberish even United fans or just WUMS?
Now I agree that its time for a more modern keeper to suit ETH's style and someone with better aerial ability and surprise surprise, you can still have that view without needing to constantly slag off DDG. 415 appearances for and club and 12 years service.
Of course he has made mistakes and I believe he should have done much better for the second goal against City for example (it's clear everyone was caught cold for the first so no idea how the GK experts in this thread are blaming him for that) but he's kept 17 clean sheets in the league this season where our defence has constantly been changing and that is 3 more than anyone else. But apparently he doesn't have much shot stopping ability so clearly he must have just stood there and the ball hit him each time. It's obvious had another keeper won the Golden Glove, I'm sure some of the posters on here would be celebrating that. Do I think he has deficiencies in this game? Yes I do and that's why I agree a more modern keeper with better passing and aerial ability is required but I'm still of the view he's been a great servant to the club during a time when we have been up and down and through different managers. Also have to laugh at the posters who are posting highlight reels of DDG's conceded goals and analysing them at the same time acting like all other keepers haven't made a mistakes at all.
Then there are the strange folk who equal replacing a GK alongside a striker and feel that has been the reason for our woes this season. We've scored 58 goals this season in the league. That is joint 7th with Brentford. We are 11 behind the next team above - Newcastle and 30 goals behind Arsenal in second and 36 behind City in first. At the same time, he has kept 17 clean sheets. Now of course a more modern GK will improve us but DDG hasn't been the issue for our problems this season, that has been scoring goals and killing games off when on top.
Now I agree that its time for a more modern keeper to suit ETH's style and someone with better aerial ability and surprise surprise, you can still have that view without needing to constantly slag off DDG. 415 appearances for and club and 12 years service.
Of course he has made mistakes and I believe he should have done much better for the second goal against City for example (it's clear everyone was caught cold for the first so no idea how the GK experts in this thread are blaming him for that) but he's kept 17 clean sheets in the league this season where our defence has constantly been changing and that is 3 more than anyone else. But apparently he doesn't have much shot stopping ability so clearly he must have just stood there and the ball hit him each time. It's obvious had another keeper won the Golden Glove, I'm sure some of the posters on here would be celebrating that. Do I think he has deficiencies in this game? Yes I do and that's why I agree a more modern keeper with better passing and aerial ability is required but I'm still of the view he's been a great servant to the club during a time when we have been up and down and through different managers. Also have to laugh at the posters who are posting highlight reels of DDG's conceded goals and analysing them at the same time acting like all other keepers haven't made a mistakes at all.
Then there are the strange folk who equal replacing a GK alongside a striker and feel that has been the reason for our woes this season. We've scored 58 goals this season in the league. That is joint 7th with Brentford. We are 11 behind the next team above - Newcastle and 30 goals behind Arsenal in second and 36 behind City in first. At the same time, he has kept 17 clean sheets. Now of course a more modern GK will improve us but DDG hasn't been the issue for our problems this season, that has been scoring goals and killing games off when on top.
No idea who this is but would be great if he was offered a mega deal in Saudi.
Would force the club into signing a new keeper
Barthez was a better keeper than DDG. He made mistakes, some comical, but DDG makes at least 10 like this per year. He was also able to sweep.
This is an absolutely appalling take, whatever you think of DDG now.
Yes, a gk who the WC, the Euro, reached another WC final is worse than the guy who chokes at the sight of a title. DDG's peak was better than Barthez. But I m comparing their overall career.
So you're not comparing them as goalkeepers then, just their careers. Well then, yes, obviously Barthez has had a better career. It in no way makes him a better goalkeeper than DDG.
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