Weird given I've said literally nothing about any of them and it was you that brought them up.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 58
- Clean sheets
- 25
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
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You do love a stat tbfWeird given I've said literally nothing about any of them and it was you that brought them up.
Why are you missing out the bit from your own preferred statistical method that showed he also cost us 7 goals vs the average goalkeeper, giving him a net worth of +3, not the +10 you keep going on about.
You're focussing on one aspect but ignoring the others. You're also ignoring the part of your preferred statistical method, which in itself is incredibly ironic given it was "stats schmats" until a few days ago, that showed that the other goalkeepers at the top 6 clubs were comfortably ahead of him. To reiterate (and these are your preferred stats):
Alisson +19
Lloris / Ramsdale +7
Mendy +6
Ederson +4
De Gea +3
Did you have some red bull to get some more energy to compete?
They're useful in the face of the blind "De Gea is great look at him saving our arses all the time" but given that De Gea's deficiencies are becoming clearer and clearer they're not really needed so much because it is so obvious even to the majority of his defenders at this point that we need a better goalkeeper. Btw the first tweet you've quoted is very clearly sarcasm.
I'm intrigued to know why you think De Gea was better than Raya last night, nothing to do with stats as I haven't looked at anything back from the game yet. Off the top of my head I can remember De Gea passing the ball to a Brentford player about 40 yards from goal at one point, kicking it straight at Toney inside his 6 yard box and I'm pretty sure he only had one save to make and that came directly from him kicking a long goal kick to fecking Sancho in the centre after Rashford & Sancho clearly spoke and switched positions so that De Gea could aim his kick to the left wing rather than their three massive centre backs only for him to completely ignore that they had switched and kick it to the centre backs anyway. On the plus side I was pleased to see him claim a cross and make himself more available in possession, he is trying to be fair to him even though he's clearly not comfortable with it.
...because he kept a clean sheet and Raya conceded?They're useful in the face of the blind "De Gea is great look at him saving our arses all the time" but given that De Gea's deficiencies are becoming clearer and clearer they're not really needed so much because it is so obvious even to the majority of his defenders at this point that we need a better goalkeeper. Btw the first tweet you've quoted is very clearly sarcasm.
I'm intrigued to know why you think De Gea was better than Raya last night, nothing to do with stats as I haven't looked at anything back from the game yet. Off the top of my head I can remember De Gea passing the ball to a Brentford player about 40 yards from goal at one point, kicking it straight at Toney inside his 6 yard box and I'm pretty sure he only had one save to make and that came directly from him kicking a long goal kick to fecking Sancho in the centre after Rashford & Sancho clearly spoke and switched positions so that De Gea could aim his kick to the left wing rather than their three massive centre backs only for him to completely ignore that they had switched and kick it to the centre backs anyway. On the plus side I was pleased to see him claim a cross and make himself more available in possession, he is trying to be fair to him even though he's clearly not comfortable with it.
I'm not getting drawn in - feel free to find someone else to 'debate' with. I'm sure you'll beat them into submission with your unique brand of repetition and persistence.
Pretty sure that's a stat and you didn't want to use stats.
not getting drawn in but you'll go through my post history to find posts which are at least a month old no apparent reason. What an absolute whopper.No need for name calling, calm yourself fella. Have a nice afternoon...go upstairs and have a rage tug over whichever ddg performance really does it for you.Pretty sure that's a stat and you didn't want to use stats.
You've given an opinion, back it up or don't back it up. Don't do what you're doing. You are demonstrating some incredibly odd tendencies to keep returning time and time again where you said you wouldn't, moaning about stats then making it about stats, and essentially adding nothing whatsoever to any conversation.
It's a forum and I'll act however I please, provided it's within the forum rules thanks mate. I've given my opinion that I think DDG is a decent keeper from having watched him over the past decade or so and I'm afraid that some random on the internet isn't going to force me into footnoting my posts and providing a full bibliography. I would say that the one exhibiting odd (obsessive?) behavior is the one with over 200 posts in the thread, myself.
One of the few reasonable posts from a De Gea critic here, although the implied assumption here is that we can find a keeper who has De Gea’s shot stopping ability AND dominates the 6 yard box AND has incredible passing ability AND is a masterful sweeper keeper.
Alisson, Ederson and Courtois meet all these criteria, but it would be a struggle to find another keeper who does. Not Pope, not Pickford and definitely not Raya.
If we let De Gea just go, we’re not bringing in Alisson, Ederson or Courtois. We’re probably looking at Pickford or Raya. If that’s the choice the club makes, we can look forward to goals being conceded that De Gea routinely prevents. Just my opinion, but shot stopping is by far the most important skill a top keeper must master. Pickford and Raya are nowhere close to De Gea.
In order: Pasveer (Ajax keeper), Szczęsny (DDG #1 comp on fbref), Costa, DDG.
They already upgraded on Pasveer during the winter window.
@lex talionis do you think at worst, DDG is the joint 4th best goalkeeper in the world?
Also sorry bud, this did make me laugh.
I wont try to change your mind or debate ya on this, but it gave me a chuckle
Also sorry bud, this did make me laugh.
I wont try to change your mind or debate ya on this, but it gave me a chuckle
I find it funny that people still cling to this.
It's simply not very true.
Raya has the highest save %(77) in the league this season and has faced the most shots. +2.8 psxg
Pickford has the 7th highest save %(73) and has face the third most shots. +2.9psxg
DDG has the 14th highest save %(67) and has faced the 9th most shots. -2.2psxg
Raya is way ahead of both in terms of claiming crosses, sweeping and passing too btw.
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Agreed. Having the better keeper earned us at least two points last night.
Depends on who we replace him with I guess, a Maignan would definitely be an upgrade but a guy like Raya might work or might be another Ben Foster.
See my edited post.
that is quite funny, I'll give you that. Made me smile too tbf.I don't think I really contradict myself that much there though. I think he's a decent keeper, but not GREAT if you know what I mean. He used to be imo but not any more.
Not the same being keeper for Brentford/Everton than United, especially in the position where composure and mental strength is required far more than in any other position on the pitch. We've seen a lot of good keepers come here and fold under the pressure that comes with being our #1. The notion that any bang average keeper like Pickford would be an upgrade is absolutely laughable, even in this state of obvious decline De Gea has contributed to the season far more than people in here want to admit, another game, another big save, another person in here claiming he's the worst keeper of all time.
People talk about it likes it some sort of holy grail of goalkeeping, if you bring in someone that suits the style of play and is confident in their ability it will work.
And nobody has said that, just like the weekend nobody said he was the cause of the loss.
You lot really like making stuff up.
No, I wouldn't. But I would say that there's no fukking way we're going to bring in any of the top 10 keepers in the world, according to fourfourtwo:
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-10-best-goalkeepers-in-the-world
And I would definitely NOT agree that Martinez and Pope -- allegedly two of the top ten greatest keepers in the world -- are better than De Gea.
Let's just go through that Top Ten:
We're not bringing in Alission or Courtois, full stop and end of.
We're not bringing in Ter Stegen, who wouldn't be that much of an upgrade on De Gea anyway.
Pope is a solid keeper and definitely one for the future, but he's not better than De Gea today.
Ederson...he's not leaving City for United.
I haven't seen that much of Sommer, but I'm happy to concede that he's vastly superior to De Gea...but he's not leaving Bayern for United either.
Neuer...there's no doubt that he was once superior to De Gea. But there's also no doubt that we are not we're bringing in a 37-year old keeper coming off a serious injury.
Donnarumma is not leaving PSG. But let's concede him too.
I would not swap out De Gea for Onana.
I would not swap out De Gea for Martinez.
So, where would I rank De Gea? Hard to say as I don't watch every league around the world, but easily in the 15 if we're going to downplay his ability as much as possible.
Apart from Donnarumma I haven't heard of any outstanding keepers in the French league. Maybe there are some great keepers in the Buli and La Liga apart from Bayern's two keepers and Courtois and Ter Stegen in La Liga, but none come to mind as obviously superior to De Gea. There might be a gem in Serie A. There are some pretty decent keepers in the MLS and Liga MX, but let's rule those two leagues out altogether as being irrelevant to this discussion.
So going back to the prem let's start with Pickford, as it really is time for him to move on to a club which competes for trophies. Pickford is a solid enough keeper, but he is in no way an upgrade on De Gea and at least I would say not up to De Gea's level. Raya is solid, but he's not an upgrade on De Gea and is clearly inferior, as is Pickford, as a shot stopper. I'm not having Ramsdale either, any in event even if you believe he's superior to De Gea (not saying you are) he's not leaving Arsenal for United. Lloris, Sa, Sanchez...no thanks. Bazunu is an intriguing prospect who's not better than De Gea today, but in a few years might be as De Gea goes into his mid 30s. But we're not talking about the long term, which will come and there will be a day when De Gea will have to be replaced...we're talking about next season. For all the stick De Gea takes on the caf, not a single name of any credibility -- for example, we are not bringing in Alisson or Courtois -- has come up that demands we shitcan De Gea to sign that keeper.
I was in disbelief.. Though he was nowhere near the ball but I celebrated. It was a glorious attempt.
Again, with the better shot stopper nonsense.
Raya has the highest save %(77) in the league this season and has faced the most shots 157 +2.8 psxg
Pickford has the 7th highest save %(73) and has face the third most shots 134. +2.9psxg
DDG has the 14th highest save %(67) and has faced the 9th most shots 111. -2.2psxg
It's like claiming Martial is a better goalscorer than Kane.
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I don’t know what the total number of shots is. Next time give us the total number of shots as well.
80% of 20 is 16
80% of 5 is 4
If this happens across 4 games the numbers start telling a different story each time.
Edited to include the total number of shots.
From 46 less shots DDG has conceded 1 goal less than Raya, and from 23 less shots only 3 goals less than Pickford.
Keep using these 2 guys as examples to prove he's better. It just doesn't add up.
Thanks it’s gives a clearer picture.
And what are you on here? The DDG thread police?
My thoughts are that David de Gea played a very good game yesterday, and also that I still wouldn't like for him to be our number one goalkeeper next season.
I think it'd undermine my argument that De Gea should be replaced as the first choice keeper were I not to give credit where it's due. In particular, I was impressed that he actually showed for the ball and made himself available as a passing option, which is a frustration I'd previously had with him.
His distribution still wasn't anything exemplary, but it's just never going to be. As I say, the fact that he was at least more proactive in helping out his defence when they were on the ball is to be commended. Further, the Kevin Schade chance showcased the very best of De Gea; he is still an exceptionally good keeper at dealing with one-on-ones, showing excellent judgement as to where to best position himself to prevent a goal.
As I say, though, I still don't think De Gea should be our goalkeeper next season. Well, I wouldn't particularly mind having him here as the second choice goalkeeper, but for several reasons that seems very unlikely.
One thing worth pointing out about the Brentford game is that our opposition were quite passive, which I found slightly strange given that Newcastle's aggression just a few days earlier proved so effective against us. The passiveness of Brentford's press meant they were unable to exploit a major weakness in De Gea's game, which is that he struggles to make the right decision on the ball when faced with opposition pressure.
Another aspect of Brentford's game which suited De Gea, and one which was quite uncharacteristic of them, was that they entirely failed to make use of their considerable aerial threat. Their set piece delivery was very poor, and Toney wasn't given a whole lot to work with in open play either. Again, the consequence of this is that another huge weak point in De Gea's game (his lack of command over his area) went entirely unpunished.
So yeah, the TL;DR of all that waffle would be yes, let's give De Gea the credit he's due for a good performance, but let's also not get carried away with it.
I think it'd undermine my argument that De Gea should be replaced as the first choice keeper were I not to give credit where it's due. In particular, I was impressed that he actually showed for the ball and made himself available as a passing option, which is a frustration I'd previously had with him.
His distribution still wasn't anything exemplary, but it's just never going to be. As I say, the fact that he was at least more proactive in helping out his defence when they were on the ball is to be commended. Further, the Kevin Schade chance showcased the very best of De Gea; he is still an exceptionally good keeper at dealing with one-on-ones, showing excellent judgement as to where to best position himself to prevent a goal.
As I say, though, I still don't think De Gea should be our goalkeeper next season. Well, I wouldn't particularly mind having him here as the second choice goalkeeper, but for several reasons that seems very unlikely.
One thing worth pointing out about the Brentford game is that our opposition were quite passive, which I found slightly strange given that Newcastle's aggression just a few days earlier proved so effective against us. The passiveness of Brentford's press meant they were unable to exploit a major weakness in De Gea's game, which is that he struggles to make the right decision on the ball when faced with opposition pressure.
Another aspect of Brentford's game which suited De Gea, and one which was quite uncharacteristic of them, was that they entirely failed to make use of their considerable aerial threat. Their set piece delivery was very poor, and Toney wasn't given a whole lot to work with in open play either. Again, the consequence of this is that another huge weak point in De Gea's game (his lack of command over his area) went entirely unpunished.
So yeah, the TL;DR of all that waffle would be yes, let's give De Gea the credit he's due for a good performance, but let's also not get carried away with it.
I have several gripes with DDG continuing as No.1 next season.
Everyone focuses on shot stopping, which is his greatest strength, which we saw again yesterday.
However, the lack of a commanding presence in the box, combined with his slow and often poor distribution, is ultimately why it is time to give someone else a go.
Great servant, top shot stopper, no problem with a mew contract, if he is happy to support a new No.1 on much reduced terms
Everyone focuses on shot stopping, which is his greatest strength, which we saw again yesterday.
However, the lack of a commanding presence in the box, combined with his slow and often poor distribution, is ultimately why it is time to give someone else a go.
Great servant, top shot stopper, no problem with a mew contract, if he is happy to support a new No.1 on much reduced terms
I am not sure why football clubs even employ football scouts when they can get this oranges guy who will get them the best choices of GK based on stats from the internet.
This is largely my position too, although it may seem harsh but I'm not quite as sold that De Gea's overall shot-stopping is truly exceptional any more. (Although there are things he still does extremely well, such as dealing with one-on-one scenarios)
I really wouldn't mind keeping De Gea as a back-up option; with the pressure that comes with playing in goal for United, he'd be a great fall-back option to have if our incoming goalkeeper struggles initially. I do think, though, that if/when De Gea is replaced by a goalkeeper who is better with the ball at his feet and more commanding of his area, it's going to be a bit like the Hart situation was with Pep. I'm overwhelmingly confident that our overall play will improve considerably, especially with Ten Hag as our manager.
I'm not sure United's recruitment department are really the best counterpoint given our recent record in the transfer window...
The fact you wouldn’t swap him for these keepers shows us what a massive problem we have here…
Damn, that's interesting. I have a very different view of De Gea's standing in the game right now, to be honest. I'd say Pickford and Raya are both better goalkeepers right now, and Pope and Martinez are absolutely miles better goalkeepers right now, than De Gea.
I also think that the FourFourTwo list has at least one glaring omission, and that would be Mike Maignan from AC Milan, but that's rather beside the point since I don't think he's going to be gettable this summer either.
I don't think there's much point in going to in-depth into this discussion here simply because I think I clearly have a very different opinion of De Gea's current ability to you, but I think similar to Arsenal with Ramsdale we won't actually need to spend massive amounts of money in order to substantially improve our goalkeeper situation this summer. For starters, I think shot stopping is entirely the wrong thing to be prioritising anyway.
Nope, but that poster offers nothing, so I just ignored it.
I'd be happy to work for them.
But, I'd say Utd are well aware he's a problem.
Why else would they be dragging it out and offering him a reduced contract?
I don't understand this as a comment, it's very cheap in a performance discussion.
@lex talionis your previous comment made it sound like there's only three goalkeepers who are better than DDG out there and nobody else would be an improvement on him.
Free kick and sweeping . He got close to being caught out one time.
I‘d disagree on Onana who is very good. I don‘t know about his temperament however.
Would ETH be open to working with Onana again? I doubt ETH was happy about how Onana played out the situation at Ajax
I know there's been talk of a reduced salary for him but realistically how much is he going to be willing to drop from the 350k a week (In CL seasons) ???
Surely it won't be too much of a fall.
I think it's time for him to move on. Been a top signing and player for us but it feels like a good time to part ways.
Surely it won't be too much of a fall.
I think it's time for him to move on. Been a top signing and player for us but it feels like a good time to part ways.
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