Copa America 2024 - Argentina Win

Even with those guys, the times Brazil actually imposed their class and outplayed their opponents vs the times they just dug down, won the physical battle and relied on a couple moments of brilliance to carry the day are still very heavily skewed towards the latter

The reality is that Brazil have been what they are now for 35 years. Sometimes with better/more magical players giving it a veneer of the great Brazil teams of yore, the ones that actually had teams chasing shadows on a regular basis. But it was always a passing thing
Sure, after the failure of their 80s samba boys pragmatism won over. Not just the NT but the entire setup from the bottom up, much like we now in general have athleticism and physical conditioning at the forefront.

But I was scared shitless playing Brazil 1997-2007, got some bad drubbings in the Neymar years (once they score they ease into it and play more freely), but I'm not overly concerned about playing them any more.
 
But I was scared shitless playing Brazil 1997-2007, got some bad drubbings in the Neymar years (once they score they ease into it and play more freely), but I'm not overly concerned about playing them any more.
dunno, didn't they go a whole qualifying group winning every game and won the copa america without Neymar between 2017 and 2022? Think the Tite sides were plenty scary, just unlucky at crucial times in the WCs.

I get the fear factor from those late 90s early 00s sides, but they were very rarely impressive in terms of playing style. It was usually just what it is now, the difference is Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Adriano and Ronaldinho vs basically Vini and a bunch of dudes now
 
In general, Brazilian football historically has a very goal oriented and offensive style, yet mostly mostly based in an "on the break/counter attacking style" to take advantage of their insane athletism combine with excellent technique.
Yet, this never prevented that once the advantage was won, they could easily hold the ball with their most technical sides and phenoms or geniuses in the mid. All of that combine with excellent reading and application of tactical fouls when the other team it's attacking or trying to play in the break. Those rivals usually have lesser athletism and less rythim, so the tactical fouls contributed to made them even slower. With such combination (style) they'll literally could hammer most opposition. The best exception to this style, was the WC82, that was avery midfield oriented with lots of passing in the build up (the whole 80's period around the globe was midfield oriented and one of the most prolific on marvellous 10's)

The more pragmatic teams, came after the lack of success, and knee jerk reactions to it. Similar to what happens in any major Traditional Powerhouse when not winning, no matter if some sides played fantastic offensive football or got far but no cigar: "offensive/more freestyle football does not win titles" raise its ugly head...so you leave behind the Tele Santanas, the Zagallos and you call the Parrerias and Dungas of the world, because they bring "results". The truth it's that sometimes they brought results, but it's like playing an amnesia game where people forget that before them a lot less pragmatic, more flair sides, also brought them. This cicles tend to end when results do not come and there is not an 82 side to at least enjoy their game even if loosing, people start crying that Brazil it's not more Brazil, that they do not play futebol and that they have to come back to the roots, the issue here it's that it's easier to destroy than to build so not few times it's harder to get back to the path of your best style and more representative one.

Anyway, on any period Brazil still is Brazil, the 94 side was rock solid, was not the samba of 82, but with such beasts in Romario, Bebeto, etc and that hard rock mid had that freaking marvellous Midfielder called Mauro Silva, one of the best and more forgotten defensive/organizative midefielders ever.
So in their best periods, those pragmatic sides had phenomenal players involved. The worse of those more pragmatic sides are those like the Dunga Copa 2007 that actually have a fantastic Copa win but at the same time it's playing with fire because it gives too much power to an over the top pragmatic idea that at the end of the day Brazil it's still paying today. You don't rennounce in such manner to your tradition, you end paying it years later with the players you develope, with a bigger effort require in the future to come back to the roots.

It's not uncommon in the world these type cicles, similar type of situations occured in other Traditional Football Nations. Nowadays Brazil it's playing the "non style", they are in a transitional period that we'll witness what version of Brazil would come out of this.

PD: on every period, any valid version of any of those styles, the "original one", "the passing flair one" or the more "pragmatic ones", all of them were TEAMS, not just names on a list, every Nation from time to time faces a period that are just names on a list, no matter how great those names might be.
 
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I’m surprised at how much of a go people have been having at the tournament. I’ve enjoyed some of these games a lot more than the no risks taken snoozefests served up in the Euros.
 
dunno, didn't they go a whole qualifying group winning every game and won the copa america without Neymar between 2017 and 2022? Think the Tite sides were plenty scary, just unlucky at crucial times in the WCs.
Those were the drubbings I referred to, much worse than anything against the ones that scared me. The thing is, they looked "doable" so we wouldn't be as cagey as with the others, but once they scored it was floodgates open.

I get the fear factor from those late 90s early 00s sides, but they were very rarely impressive in terms of playing style. It was usually just what it is now, the difference is Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Adriano and Ronaldinho vs basically Vini and a bunch of dudes now
Slight difference :lol:

The fact Andreas gets to play says it all. Conceded a dangerous foul he was duped into and had a couple of playacting incidents. Embarrassing. I don't even think he was subbed on for penos, stupid if so because we were there for the taking.
 
Argentina-Uruguay final feels destined with Bielsa being in charge of Uruguay now. I also hope if Argentina retain the Copa then Messi decides that's enough for international level now as I think him hanging on to bow out at the next World cup will hinder their player like Ronaldo for Portugal.

Brazil are just a quarter final team generally now unless they're hosting a tournament, pretty sure they last advanced past QFs on foreign soil was 2007 Copa in Venezuela?

Unless Endrick hits the ground running at Madrid (and he'll likely be a sub first season) it's hard to see them doing much at the next World cup unless they have an easy knock out draw. Said it before but their current full back options are sub par for what they've had historically and CM isn't great either so chronic lack of creativity and just relying on their quick forwards on counters to do something.
 
Argentina-Uruguay final feels destined with Bielsa being in charge of Uruguay now. I also hope if Argentina retain the Copa then Messi decides that's enough for international level now as I think him hanging on to bow out at the next World cup will hinder their player like Ronaldo for Portugal.

Brazil are just a quarter final team generally now unless they're hosting a tournament, pretty sure they last advanced past QFs on foreign soil was 2007 Copa in Venezuela?

Unless Endrick hits the ground running at Madrid (and he'll likely be a sub first season) it's hard to see them doing much at the next World cup unless they have an easy knock out draw. Said it before but their current full back options are sub par for what they've had historically and CM isn't great either so chronic lack of creativity and just relying on their quick forwards on counters to do something.
I think Colombia will win it.

I've always thought whoever comes out of the "hard side" will catch Argentina cold unless injuries/suspensions take their toll. Well, everything that could go wrong for us went wrong last night.

Araújo is not just a great CB but key to building from the back: injured. De la Cruz is the one keeping things ticking and fluid in the final third, MotM scoring a brace in our last game with Brazil. Got kicked systematically, got a yellow so subbed and team fell apart: will be on a yellow vs Colombia. Ugarte also will. Nández is our right flank, where Pellistri is a fitting cog like Neville was for Beckham (worked well but everyone knew who was the key player out of the two). No complaints on the red, but will have nightmares for days thinking of Guille Varela tasked with Luis Diaz.

What's great about this team is their balance, resilience, decent depth and how they can navigate someone's absence or stinker. I think it's too much gone awry though and you could already see it clearly last night.
 
Oh dear. I'm just reminded of Coutinho completely skinning him and scoring against us when we got knocked out by Liverpool in the Europa.
Thanks for reminding me that only happened once when I'm picturing it all game long :lol:
 
Day 17 - SF 1 - Argentina v Canada
Day 17 - Semi Final 1 - July 10

Argentina v Canada - 1am UK time
 
Canada in the Copa America final would genuinely be the most insane thing I've seen in international football for years. I hope they do it.
 
I’m surprised at how much of a go people have been having at the tournament. I’ve enjoyed some of these games a lot more than the no risks taken snoozefests served up in the Euros.

I think both tournaments have been struggling for totally different reasons. In the Euros AFAIK everything aside from what's going on in the field has been stellar. The football though has been mostly dull and there has been very few entertaining matches. Copa América has had some entertaining matches and teams in form, but the organization, attendance (due to prices), refereeing, field sizes, field quality, fixtures, etc. has been abysmal.
 
I think both tournaments have been struggling for totally different reasons. In the Euros AFAIK everything aside from what's going on in the field has been stellar. The football though has been mostly dull and there has been very few entertaining matches. Copa América has had some entertaining matches and teams in form, but the organization, attendance (due to prices), refereeing, field sizes, field quality, fixtures, etc. has been abysmal.

Indeed, and at the same time some matches in the Euros were really great like Germany vs Spain, Austria vs Turkey and in Copa some matches has been quiet bad, maybe entertaining none the less for the intensity, but under what many times both teams can produce like UY vs Brazil, or Ecuador vs Argentina.
 
It's the biggest game in our soccer history, to be fair.
Wasn't besmirching the match, sorry if it came off that way. No doubt it's an important day for football in Canada. Just was expecting a lead in to the Spain France match, not 6 hours out for y'all's match.
 
I'm not watching France-Spain. Really looking forward to Argentina-Canada, though. Shame it's on so early here at 1am. 2am should be the earliest!

If Marcosdeto was still around, I wouldn't mind the result, but, seeing as he's gone, I have to root for Canada. The underdog story, and we have quite a lot of Canadians here like the legendary @Dr. Dwayne above!
 
Wasn't besmirching the match, sorry if it came off that way. No doubt it's an important day for football in Canada. Just was expecting a lead in to the Spain France match, not 6 hours out for y'all's match.

Hehehe it's all good. Kevin Kilbane looks like he's been drinking all day.
 
I'm not watching France-Spain. Really looking forward to Argentina-Canada, though. Shame it's on so early here at 1am. 2am should be the earliest!

If Marcosdeto was still around, I wouldn't mind the result, but, seeing as he's gone, I have to root for Canada. The underdog story, and we have quite a lot of Canadians here like the legendary @Dr. Dwayne above!

:cool:
 
Eww DiMaria's face
Let's go Canada!
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Jesse Marsch is a wizard. Canada creating all sorts of openings with the ball but just lacking the players to be sharp enough to take those chances.
There was also the second leg where Lukaku, after Rashford scored that penalty, deliberately celebrated in front of Di María's face :lol: