But there is the legal system, which could ban any punishment until that process is played out
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
- Start date
They would get one appeal which will be heard in the same place but with a different Independent Panel and the decision they make is final and City would have to accept it.
Bit of a strange thread to share this optimism in though.
With you 100%
I think they should be ejected from the league and banned from re entry for 5 seasons. Their titles should be stripped too but won't be
I believe another reason why they won’t be punished in a manner fitting their „crimes“ is that the league itself won’t want to look like a bunch of idiots, who stood by while someone cheated the whole league for years. A harsh punishment is basically a confession that they failed to enforce their rules. And as organisations like these tend to take appearances very seriously, they have an interest to avoid the harsher penalties.
They would look better, from their point of view, if City looked like a club that did a few shady things and that’s it, instead of showing them for what they are: a quasi criminal enterprise who made a joke of every regulatory institution involved in English football.
They would look better, from their point of view, if City looked like a club that did a few shady things and that’s it, instead of showing them for what they are: a quasi criminal enterprise who made a joke of every regulatory institution involved in English football.
Isn't Everton getting a 10 point deduction for one charge also a precedent?
I really hope so, I want to have the same hope as you but I just know how corrupt it can be at the top. They will come out with some bulllshit about how the charges were different etc...
I am stuck between two, if you think sensibly, you cannot bring down 115 charges on a club and not punish them, considering last 2 seasons numerous clubs have been sanctioned. yet, I feel as if City being City will get away with it because of the influence they have.
It’s an independent body who will be judging and deciding punishment isn’t it?
So what the Premier League want as a punishment is surely not a factor?
Correct.
''All I did was rob a bank. It's not fair that there are rich people and I'm skint, so robbing banks shouldn't be against the law. I just want to be rich as well.
It's a conspiracy.''
So you think there is zero possibilty they would take legal action if they think they have been unjustly or wrongly punished, that's a bit naive if you ask me
If they only have a 30 point deduction they will probably still finish above us.
It is. And that’s absolutely how things should be. And I believe in no way at all, that this is how it’s going to be.
Instead they look like a bunch of idiots who not only allowed this at the time but failed to act when it came to light...
Yes, that's a much better look.
None of us have any clue how it will go. And I suspect they won't get the level of punishment they deserve. But I just don't see how the PL could dish out fairly harsh punishments on Everton and Forest for single charges and then let City off for 115 charges. They will know they have to do something to them, otherwise the whole idea of the PL as a competition will be a farce and the PL lose what little integrity they have left.
Also lets not forget the Premier League is the 20 clubs, it's not just some group of suits somewhere that City can buy off. All the other clubs have a say in this to some extent. If City get off with a virtual slap on the wrist then the Super League will almost certainly rear it's head again.
If they are found guilty of the charges and the appeal panel uphold that guilty verdict there is no further action they could take that would hold up the punishment, the process being followed here is a process that all clubs agree to and sign up to each season.
Big institutions love to do whatever might be necessary in order to hide how much corruption and rule breaking they allowed. And I think you overestimate the knowledge average people have about City‘s wrongdoings. Most of them will shrug at the penalty and think if that’s all, it wasn’t that bad.
They can sue to find out if that agreement is legally binding, which isn't a given at all.
I mean we are all on the same boat here.. hoping for the most extreme punishment.
Like you say, if they get away with it, not only is the super league going to rear up again, it sets another precedent, where Newcastle are waiting.
Villa, Chelsea, Newcastle will be watching this carefully and if City get away with it, they will end up spending and hiding figures for years knowing nothing will happen.
It is legally binding, the agreement all clubs sign when they sign up each season is legally binding
Can’t make my mind up if this is a good or bad idea. Sounds like the PL are simply washing their hands of any outcome so they can’t be blamed.
if they are found guilty of most of the charges and those that have hindered the investigation then the book should be thrown at them. You can’t have 19 teams sticking to the rules and the other team doing what they want for multiple years. Those years have a major effect on ever
No matter the outcome it won’t be enough. So many multitudes of the butterfly effect at play here. Without the rule breaking (if guilty) they would not have been able to sign half the players\manger that they have assembled. Teams\fans have missed out on winning trophies\top4\relegation… how do you put in terms the experience fans might have missed out on due to City’s rule breaking. At the other end City have also improved infrastructure \recruitment\scouting\youth to help with everything going forward.
To many things to list and why no punishment can be enough. I personally hope a single punishment like points deduction or fine won’t be they way to go as other teams can simply ignore this scandal knowing nothing will get done. Stripping of titles and expulsion would set the standard so we never have to witness something like this again in the English league. However, I very much doubt the independent panel will review how each charge has effected multiple layers of English football and beyond.
Yeah, that's not how that works.
I think City will be punished and as a result have been trying to put themselves in a good net spend position.
What would sicken me would be something like, relegation and 1 season outside of the PL. As when they come straight back up, Sky will be force feeding us the narrative that they've had their "punishment" And now everything the do is above board....
What would sicken me would be something like, relegation and 1 season outside of the PL. As when they come straight back up, Sky will be force feeding us the narrative that they've had their "punishment" And now everything the do is above board....
Does a club have entitlement to be allowed to be part of, what is a private competition, if they've breached the agreements? Their 'invitation' to the premier league should just be revoked for a period of time.
That depends on a lot of factors, there's no general answer to that question.
When the private competition is the Premier League, and the breach is to challenge the legality of a clause, then kicking someone out over that would almost certainly be super illegal.
If a document is illegal it's still illegal regardless of who has signed it.
They will get done but it won't be the punishment they deserve or everyone is hoping for. Guilty on 40 of the 115 charges, mainly the failing to comply ones and 30 point reduction or something like that.
That will allow City them to save face by arguing that they just didn't comply because of x,y z and the rest is bogus. That will still leave them 4th/5th and loose the title this year but behind closed doors they will be high fiving. They will win it next season and carry on.
Plus it will allow the Prem to say we got them and we gave them a record points deduction. 3 times more than previous highest which I think is 10. But really they did sht
That will allow City them to save face by arguing that they just didn't comply because of x,y z and the rest is bogus. That will still leave them 4th/5th and loose the title this year but behind closed doors they will be high fiving. They will win it next season and carry on.
Plus it will allow the Prem to say we got them and we gave them a record points deduction. 3 times more than previous highest which I think is 10. But really they did sht
Who is on that independent commission and who chose those people?
Don’t, Pannick
It's three people, don't think it's known who, chosen by Murray Rosen. He's the head of the Premier League Judicial Panel.
Thank you.
An independent panel also decided the Everton and Forest punishments, each time. It's not something new just for Man City.
It's been legally binding enough that the PL won the case that the league has the power to collect documents from City. I doubt that will have held up if the league wouldn't then have the power to punish them. The league would just point to that decision that City couldn't fight against which meant the league has authority over them in this kind of matter.
Of course they have the power to punish them, no one is questioning that.
I'm talking about a specific clause in the agreement, not the whole contract.
You do realise that an agreement is a contract and that some contracts are found not to be legally enforceable, if City lose this badly they will almost certainly go to the courts, they may not ultimately win but that process could take years
All the contracts will be checked by the relevant legal teams becore they are signed, you cant sign a contract then just decide its not legally enforceable whenever you dont want to follow the rules you signed up for
Absolutely mate, it will be the end of the Premier League as a competitive league and it will just slowly evolve into a middle eastern pissing contest. With all other clubs looking in with no chance of ever competing with unlimited budgets of nation states. No doubt with Qatar and Dubai joining the party before long.
It would be so great to form a new league with that type of ownership outlawed. Long term it will probably happen as it's so much more entertaining when teams have peaks and troughs.
As you say a “butterfly effect” is set off by City cheating. You also mentioned “ the other 19 clubs” sticking to the rules, but you haven’t mentioned any butterfly effects caused by Everton, Forest and Man Utd when they were found guilty of breaches.
Are you certain those breaches, minor or otherwise, didn’t affect the rest of the clubs in the league negatively, or by breaching in the first place gain an unfair advantage?
I’m not defending City in any way, it’s just kind of weird watching all the rocks being thrown in one direction.
If a one of points deduction afters 10 years of cheating and not complying is what ends up happening it'll mean all clubs will just spend what they want, cover it up and get a one off hit rather than complying like Everton etc.
That alone is reason enough to stamp it out.
If legal and within the rules, they should realistically be excluded for multiple years and ban all those involved from football (directors CEOs all those in the emails etc) for multiple years also.
It's probably not possible to force an ownership change but realistically that should also happen - the actual owner will play dumb and it'll be unprovable - but all those clearly involved should be banned.
I'm going to guess this also extends after the periods in question also though - but after the hack there's likely no email trail of this, they'll likely communicate this all in person.
That alone is reason enough to stamp it out.
If legal and within the rules, they should realistically be excluded for multiple years and ban all those involved from football (directors CEOs all those in the emails etc) for multiple years also.
It's probably not possible to force an ownership change but realistically that should also happen - the actual owner will play dumb and it'll be unprovable - but all those clearly involved should be banned.
I'm going to guess this also extends after the periods in question also though - but after the hack there's likely no email trail of this, they'll likely communicate this all in person.
The truth is after the Amramovich debacle and now with City's unprecedented cheating. It should have never been allowed in the first place. Letting Oligarchs with close ties to dictators and middle eastern regimes into English football was only going to ever end one way. These people have no business owning football clubs as they have no interest in football.