talking a doing are two separate things, it's on the PL to prove that they followed through with the emails, UEFA couldn't prove this and I believe CAS said there was no evidence they followed through with this, I put something forward to my bosses a few months ago on some IT Licencing, basically we've just paid a years licence up front for 2000 users and I want to roll this product out to another 7000 users and if I onboard them now just pay the extra at the next licencing renewal and save the budget for something else, went around the houses on an email trail then we asked our Legal department and they said no fecking way are you doing that.
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
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talking a doing are two separate things, it's on the PL to prove that they followed through with the emails, UEFA couldn't prove this and I believe CAS said there was no evidence they followed through with this, I put something forward to my bosses a few months ago on some IT Licencing, basically we've just paid a years licence up front for 2000 users and I want to roll this product out to another 7000 users and if I onboard them now just pay the extra at the next licencing renewal and save the budget for something else, went around the houses on an email trail then we asked our Legal department and they said no fecking way are you doing that.
No. Not really. Personally his three years with us, we played the best football I’ve ever seen us play. Doesn’t change the fact that he is the face of an operation, that is destroying basically everything I love about the game. His incredible managerial talent doesn’t make up for his lack of character. Wouldn’t want him near the club these days.
Fair enough. And I couldn't agree more. He's a slimy, arrogant, cowardly little weasel who has had everything go his way for far too long.
That’s not true. The Premier League Judicial Panel is entirely independent, appointed by an independent Chair.
Beyond that, the brands you speak of, also want the money to keep flowing. The PL brand being damaged, harms that.
Everyone involved wants to keep the £ value of the league as high as possible, that’s their main goal. Not sporting fairness.
my point is that "the PL" interests is not the interests of some self owned "PL" that hosts clubs. it's the collective interests of the PL clubs. And as far as interests influencing the outcome, I don't think those interests necessarily point in City‘s favour.
That’s not what CAS said, Etisalat payments were time barred. I’m sure you know this though, it’s not like it’s breaking news. They also weren’t looking into much of what the PL is examining.
Re your example doesn’t make sense - some of the things happened, you can see the adjustments to sponsor contracts that happened historically that match with what they’re accused of. Even if there was no proof whatsoever, it’s reams of emails from the C suite colluding to cheat and exposing how extra funding comes in via Abu Dhabi.
What you should be saying is seeing something happened and proving something happened are different things. This is the issue for the PL. There’s no doubt City cheated (there is proof, as said, and also simple facts like the £400m sponsorship valuation in 2011 that cannot be explained with any kind of logic. Feel free to try?) but I don’t know how the PL will ever be able to force Abu Dhabi to provide any docs. They can just say no, which seems to basically be their plan. So they will get punished but will never admit nor have their guilt technically proven, which is all the owners care about.
I think that’s a very naive reading of how the PL operates.
Well I know that when a team finishes in the relegation spots (whether because they were shit or they got a points deduction) they get relegated. I think that one is straightforward.
What hasn’t been tested is expulsion , but if PL say “you aren’t playing in this league for x years” then what other option do city have but to apply to the football league?
The latter is arguable, but I can’t see there is an alternative
I'd say no one here knows exactly what went on apart from the executives, docs were apparently doctored (no idea how true or false this is) but if what you're saying is factually accurate then it should be easy for the PL lawyers to prove guilt on the sponsorships, they've undoubtedly broken rules but which rules not one person on this thread knows with certainty, most people are just being armchair lawyers with no idea on the law, for what it's worth I think they'll be found guilty of some lesser charges but I'm not sure they'll be found guilty of the major ones (no idea how guilty they are), the onus is on the PL to prove guilt and I don't think the emails or contracts show the full story, they may, but I'm not so sure.
Anyone that claims they know how all those emails and contracts amongst millions of documents are a burden off proof of guilt are being as naive as the City fans who believe they've done nothing wrong. I've work to do so might not respond but really, I wouldn't believe everything that's being said or what you've read (unless you've read the full CAS report and work in law) , I very much doubt any leaks come out of this hearing so everyone posting on here and Twitter are just speculating.
I feel like the charges of "failing to cooperate" are just being brushed aside here. They are going to get a points deduction for that alone.
I hope the decision either gets made very quickly (this month), or drags on until the start of next season, so they have to play an entire season knowing no matter what they do they'll still get relegated.
With amy luck they'll also be deducted points for the following season to stop them getting immediately back up.
With amy luck they'll also be deducted points for the following season to stop them getting immediately back up.
I gave you a few well known facts and you’ve gone straight to the ‘only lawyers’ know what’s going on defence. I have read the CAS report, it doesn’t paint City in a good light but shows UEFA were morons for fast tracking everything.
You can believe whatever you want, I’ve said I don’t think you’ll get proven guilty but will have some weak punishment for all the delays and refusals to comply with requests. But many sports lawyers have given their opinions on this, there’s a lot of info out there to read and much of it is from neutral sources i.e. there’s no cartel, there’s no conspiracy against City. There’s just a huge amount of money that falls outside the rules you signed up to and we will see what can be proven and what can’t be.
Its high level corruption, its blatant. Watch the FIFA documentary, its so obvious what goes on. How can you let a team in question select their panel?
Even for the CAS one, they were found not guilty but paid a fine? You dont pay a fine unless either 1. you are guilty 2. worked a deal out.
CAS probably thought rather than banning or punishing them, take a 10's of millions to line their pockets.
They got fined for what they were found guilty of.
If the fine of overstating sponsors and that of Billions is 10m then everyone would do it, especially the ME owned clubs.
The problem for them would be affording Pep’s contract in line with FFP/PSR rules let alone everyone else.The Athletic podcast was interesting. Sam Lee and another guy suggesting they think Pep will stay out of ‘defiance’ if they are relegated
They could always fudge the books though I guess?
They were not found guilty of that.
No FFP or PSR below the Premier League.
The championship has some very tight rules. Which is why you constantly hear championship clubs in difficulty.
League 1 and down doesn't.
Which is how you have the ludicrous nature of Birmingham in league 1 buying a player for £15m with many add ons possibly pushing it way into the £20ms
I think League One and League Two have it as well, it's just a bit less strict and is mainly related to salary.
If there were no regulations there'd be no reason for the Saudis to have bought Newcastle ahead of one of the bigger Football League clubs.
Buy a club like Cardiff, Derby or Middlesbrough, with a 30,000+ capacity stadium, pump half a billion into the squad without fear of breaching any rules, and you're not just set for promotion, but immediate establishment near the top of the Premier League once there.
City to set another record of being the first team to win the PL and be relegated the next season?
League 1 and 2 have to put money up front, Neville has brought this up multiple times on Stick to Football in regard to Salford, the rules are different nin each division but they're all pretty strict
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What's this about 15 more charges? What have I missed?
It makes sense as it'd be very easy for clubs lower down to just cease to exist with even a season of reckless spending.
I'm not sure why anyone would think they don't have rules around it.
Perhaps because Bury ceased to exist and because it happened there can't be any rules!
In fairness its easy to think they dont when you see that Wrexham's wage bill in League 2 was higher than most League 1 clubs wage bills.
My personal opinion is that I think we’ll all be let down. It’ll be a hugely lenient punishment, if any at all.
In my experience (usually) of governments, large conglomerates, the NHS etc. It’s always been a case of ‘what benefits the most for a short term outlook?’ with no thought to the potential long term implications.
In this case, the short term benefit is for all this to be resolved and to make a bit of money. The long term implications of this happens would be the loss of credibility for the league and encourage other outfits to try the same tricks as City, further damaging the league.
I just have no faith that those in positions of power will actually do the right thing, or have the balls to find them guilty. Greed always wins.
In my experience (usually) of governments, large conglomerates, the NHS etc. It’s always been a case of ‘what benefits the most for a short term outlook?’ with no thought to the potential long term implications.
In this case, the short term benefit is for all this to be resolved and to make a bit of money. The long term implications of this happens would be the loss of credibility for the league and encourage other outfits to try the same tricks as City, further damaging the league.
I just have no faith that those in positions of power will actually do the right thing, or have the balls to find them guilty. Greed always wins.
They added charges for every season ticket holder. They’re seen as complicit in the crimes.
The Athletic podcast was interesting. Sam Lee and another guy suggesting they think Pep will stay out of ‘defiance’ if they are relegated
I don't think it's defiance, probably more like City doubling his salary. Pep has already achieved everything there is to achieve in the game, outside of international football. Even if these charges weren't a thing, we've often debated where pep goes after city, because there is no other club that is as set up for him to be a success than city. Maybe a return to barcelona late on in his career before international football at some country, but I don't find it that hard to imagine Pep staying if city are relegated to the bottom of english football.
The players on the other hand are a different story. Their careers are much shorter, none of them have achieved as much as Pep. Can't see them sticking around.
You think they will be in any position to double his salary if found guilty and relegated?
Who knows whether the owners will remain or even the wider executive structure of the club. Quite plausible there will be a mass exodus.
I should have added a disclaimer that that was on the basis of the owners and current executive staying
If the owners pack it in and/or the other barcelona guys leave then yeah I can't see him staying then
Might be able to land a job with an UAE club...I should have added a disclaimer that that was on the basis of the owners and current executive staying
If the owners pack it in and/or the other barcelona guys leave then yeah I can't see him staying then
I think you've misinterpreted my point mate. I said Everton got 10 points for one breach of PSR rules. While I've no idea if Everton broke the same rule as one of City's charges, that wasn't the point.
I was replying to a post that suggested City might only get a 5-6 point deduction. So all I was saying was if the PL punished Everton with a 10 point deduction for one charge it's highly unlikely City are getting away with a 5 point deduction for 115 charges.
I never said City will be getting a 1,115 point deduction.
Fair enough you are right there. I know City haven't been charged with 115 breaches of PSR that post was poorly worded on my part.
Well they won the old Division One in 1937 and were relegated the following season
Yeah it would be great would mean their next 10 PL seasons would result in relegation regardless of how they performed. So 20 years of yo-yoing between the Premier League and the Championship.
And to be honest I don't think anyone could say they wouldn't deserve it for the shit they've pulled since 2008.
It'll never happen though.