City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

Dave Smith said:
People keep saying this but it makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

If Man City and their owners were so important the UK Governement or whatever nefarious agency you want to use would've shut down the case before it even got made and definitely before the PL went public and said they were pursuing City.

So, the constant talk of cover ups/whitewash in this instance doesn't make a grain of sense, as this could've easily have been contained from the outset. This goes double as the PL could've easily have shot down all comments about them doing nothing by pointing to the UEFA appeal and saying something similar would happen.

After that you also get to the little fact that the PL is one of UK's biggest exports and most likely it's biggest soft power export. No way do the UK government bend over to the Abu Dhabi for that, ir simply isn't worth it from a geopolitical viewpoint or an economic view point.

If people want to dabble in conspiracies the only one that makes sense is that once Saudi got let into the PL they wanted to kill their regional rivals crown jewel. That would explain why the announcement of charges against City came out of nowhere (years after UEFA.) Thus, it would be a case of selling someone out for a bigger wallet.
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Sorry to burst your bubble on this one but they did try and shush it up, City and the PL did not want it to be public.

The PL is not the U.K. gov. Not sure that should need to be explained, and the PL wants, quite clearly to punish City and believe they have cheated to a silly level. The reason people believe the gov will be involved is City’s owners literally are their government, so it’s not really a reach to think the topic would be discussed.

It’s not even a conspiracy theory, it’s just a fact that the UAE gov directly own Man City and Man City are being threatened with this action by the PL. Is that false?
 
tomaldinho1 said:
This is sadly what will happen.

There’s no way the British gov will upset them that much. There’ll be some pathetic punishment but they are wealthy, they are valuable to us for trade and the most important thing for them is their image.

Titles won’t be stripped but there’ll be a big fine, not because they’re guilty, because they have obstructed the investigation and a lot of other ransoms things. There will never be any kind of admission of guilt.
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tomaldinho1 said:
Sorry to burst your bubble on this one but they did try and shush it up, City and the PL did not want it to be public.

The PL is not the U.K. gov. Not sure that should need to be explained, and the PL wants, quite clearly to punish City and believe they have cheated to a silly level. The reason people believe the gov will be involved is City’s owners literally are their government, so it’s not really a reach to think the topic would be discussed.

It’s not even a conspiracy theory, it’s just a fact that the UAE gov directly own Man City and Man City are being threatened with this action by the PL. Is that false?
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Erm, you're the one saying that the UK Government will not allow it to happen by not wanting to 'upset them'. By that I inferred you were saying that the UK Govt will lean on the PL to whitewash this/go easy. Is that not correct?

My point is that if this is the end game. Then why did it get this far? If the UK govt are going to insist on nothing happening to protect the relationship with Abu Dhabi, then the case would've never seen the light of day, especially as there were so many 'out's' for them to use as excuses.
 
Dave Smith said:
Erm, you're the one saying that the UK Government will not allow it to happen by not wanting to 'upset them'. By that I inferred you were saying that the UK Govt will lean on the PL to whitewash this/go easy. Is that not correct?

My point is that if this is the end game. Then why did it get this far? If the UK govt are going to insist on nothing happening to protect the relationship with Abu Dhabi, then the case would've never seen the light of day, especially as there were so many 'out's' for them to use as excuses.
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Abu Dhabi are also not the be all and end all.
 
Dave Smith said:
Erm, you're the one saying that the UK Government will not allow it to happen by not wanting to 'upset them'. By that I inferred you were saying that the UK Govt will lean on the PL to whitewash this/go easy. Is that not correct?

My point is that if this is the end game. Then why did it get this far? If the UK govt are going to insist on nothing happening to protect the relationship with Abu Dhabi, then the case would've never seen the light of day, especially as there were so many 'out's' for them to use as excuses.
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maybe go back and read my post? I think their punishment (for it would be mind blowing for the PL to be 100% incorrect and they have in fact broken none of the 115 infringements) will be paltry but there will be one. What would upset the UAE is damaging their image so I do not think titles will be stripped and I do not think they will be relegated.

So I never said nothing will happen but I do think the U.K. gov in this instance are likely having some influence on the PL for their own benefit.

You did not answer my question FYI.
 
Dave Smith said:
Yeah, this is all well and good. However, for all we know the UK government told them nothing that can be done.



People keep saying this but it makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

If Man City and their owners were so important the UK Governement or whatever nefarious agency you want to use would've shut down the case before it even got made and definitely before the PL went public and said they were pursuing City.

So, the constant talk of cover ups/whitewash in this instance doesn't make a grain of sense, as this could've easily have been contained from the outset. This goes double as the PL could've easily have shot down all comments about them doing nothing by pointing to the UEFA appeal and saying something similar would happen.

After that you also get to the little fact that the PL is one of UK's biggest exports and most likely it's biggest soft power export. No way do the UK government bend over to the Abu Dhabi for that, ir simply isn't worth it from a geopolitical viewpoint or an economic view point.

If people want to dabble in conspiracies the only one that makes sense is that once Saudi got let into the PL they wanted to kill their regional rivals crown jewel. That would explain why the announcement of charges against City came out of nowhere (years after UEFA) and shortly after Saudi got let in. Thus, it would be a case of selling someone out for a bigger wallet.
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It's not really how it works, is it?

As soon as the ball starts rolling in terms of an enquiry and subsequently investigation, it's not always easy to prevent it from making headlines and it's difficult to prevent it from being a potential problem, but just because the case doesn't instantly go away it's not as if there's feck all influence.

I mean, Manchester City can easily be heavily punished in terms of fines and point deductions without them being anywhere near the sort of punishment you'd expect for the charges brought against them. A bit like Marcos Alonso in Madrid then. Here is door A then, if you don't happen to be rich there's always door B

Look at Newcastle and the Saudis, why was it blocked in the first place, how did it get resolved, why were politicians involved trying to make sure that UK and Saudi relationships weren't effected. It was essentially a "make sure this actually happens, pretty please"

So no, it becoming a story and not instantly going away isn't some sort of verification that there's no pressure and foul play, the actual result is the verification if it's door A or door B.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
maybe go back and read my post? I think their punishment (for it would be mind blowing for the PL to be 100% incorrect and they have in fact broken none of the 115 infringements) will be paltry but there will be one. What would upset the UAE is damaging their image so I do not think titles will be stripped and I do not think they will be relegated.

So I never said nothing will happen but I do think the U.K. gov in this instance are likely having some influence on the PL for their own benefit.

You did not answer my question FYI.
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Isn't our differing views more that:

a) I believe City will get a significant punishment and you believe they'll get a paltry one and;
b) I am of the opinion if the judgement is going to be paltry the PL wouldn't have gone for them/the UK Govt would've not allowed this to see the light of day to begin with?

As for the question, I do not believe I denied that City and Abu Dhabi govt are one of the same thing. My reference to the 'conspiracy theory' (maybe wrong way of describing it) was more to do with that the UK will ensure that this is whitewashed/ensure Abu Dhabi aren't given too big of a punishment.

I think we maybe put a pin in this one and review in the New Year when the judgement comes.
 
NotChatGPT said:
It's not really how it works, is it?

As soon as the ball starts rolling in terms of an enquiry and subsequently investigation, it's not always easy to prevent it from making headlines and it's difficult to prevent it from being a potential problem, but just because the case doesn't instantly go away it's not as if there's feck all influence.

I mean, Manchester City can easily be heavily punished in terms of fines and point deductions without them being anywhere near the sort of punishment you'd expect for the charges brought against them. A bit like Marcos Alonso in Madrid then. Here is door A then, if you don't happen to be rich there's always door B

Look at Newcastle and the Saudis, why was it blocked in the first place, how did it get resolved, why were politicians involved trying to make sure that UK and Saudi relationships weren't effected. It was essentially a "make sure this actually happens, pretty please"

So no, it becoming a story and not instantly going away isn't some sort of verification that there's no pressure and foul play, the actual result is the verification if it's door A or door B.
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For sure I agree with the bolded part.

As for the italics part, I am just of the opinion that the ball would never get rolling to being with if Door B(or whitewash) is an option. I say this simply because to offer 'Door B' in this instance is going to lead to a serious public backlash and damage the image of the PL. For the life of me, I just don't see how the PL wouldn't know this and subsequently take the easy option which was to deflect and state that the UEFA cased largely 'tied their hands'.
 
Dave Smith said:
Isn't our differing views more that:

a) I believe City will get a significant punishment and you believe they'll get a paltry one and;
b) I am of the opinion if the judgement is going to be paltry the PL wouldn't have gone for them/the UK Govt would've not allowed this to see the light of day to begin with?

As for the question, I do not believe I denied that City and Abu Dhabi govt are one of the same thing. My reference to the 'conspiracy theory' (maybe wrong way of describing it) was more to do with that the UK will ensure that this is whitewashed/ensure Abu Dhabi aren't given too big of a punishment.

I think we maybe put a pin in this one and review in the New Year when the judgement comes.
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Depends on your definition of the word paltry, I mean relative to the wealth of the UAE and the breaches they are accused of. A fair punishment likely does not exist when you start to think about the knock on effects of their actions across other teams unless they get the Rangers treatment and are liquidated.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Depends on your definition of the word paltry, I mean relative to the wealth of the UAE and the breaches they are accused of. A fair punishment likely does not exist when you start to think about the knock on effects of their actions across other teams unless they get the Rangers treatment and are liquidated.
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True.
 
Dave Smith said:
Yeah, this is all well and good. However, for all we know the UK government told them nothing that can be done.



People keep saying this but it makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

If Man City and their owners were so important the UK Governement or whatever nefarious agency you want to use would've shut down the case before it even got made and definitely before the PL went public and said they were pursuing City.

So, the constant talk of cover ups/whitewash in this instance doesn't make a grain of sense, as this could've easily have been contained from the outset. This goes double as the PL could've easily have shot down all comments about them doing nothing by pointing to the UEFA appeal and saying something similar would happen.

After that you also get to the little fact that the PL is one of UK's biggest exports and most likely it's biggest soft power export. No way do the UK government bend over to the Abu Dhabi for that, ir simply isn't worth it from a geopolitical viewpoint or an economic view point.

If people want to dabble in conspiracies the only one that makes sense is that once Saudi got let into the PL they wanted to kill their regional rivals crown jewel. That would explain why the announcement of charges against City came out of nowhere (years after UEFA) and shortly after Saudi got let in. Thus, it would be a case of selling someone out for a bigger wallet.
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You have evidence for this?
 
Dave Smith said:
Isn't our differing views more that:

a) I believe City will get a significant punishment and you believe they'll get a paltry one and;
b) I am of the opinion if the judgement is going to be paltry the PL wouldn't have gone for them/the UK Govt would've not allowed this to see the light of day to begin with?

As for the question, I do not believe I denied that City and Abu Dhabi govt are one of the same thing. My reference to the 'conspiracy theory' (maybe wrong way of describing it) was more to do with that the UK will ensure that this is whitewashed/ensure Abu Dhabi aren't given too big of a punishment.

I think we maybe put a pin in this one and review in the New Year when the judgement comes.
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I think your post is fair, but to the bolded, without going into conspirationist mode, I think it's quite easy to imagine that high ranking members of the previous Tory government had/have close ties, whether financial or personal, with high ranking Emiratis, and that there would have been some influence there in terms of putting pressure on the PL. Again, it's all soft power, probably would have been done informally (even though I seem to recall there was actually at least one official meeting between the UK government and the UAE, the contents of which were undisclosed, no?), so there won't be much on the public record, but it's genuinely how a lot of these things happen.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
I think your post is fair, but to the bolded, without going into conspirationist mode, I think it's quite easy to imagine that high ranking members of the previous Tory government had/have close ties, whether financial or personal, with high ranking Emiratis, and that there would have been some influence there in terms of putting pressure on the PL. Again, it's all soft power, probably would have been done informally (even though I seem to recall there was actually at least one official meeting between the UK government and the UAE, the contents of which were undisclosed, no?), so there won't be much on the public record, but it's genuinely how a lot of these things happen.
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I haven't really denied what you have said and I would also say that it won't matter if it is Tory or Labour - but that is a separate argument.

My point was that if the UAE was so important to Britain that it means the UK Govt will ensure that the case against them is whitewahed/quashed (whatever you want to call it) then the PL case wouldn't have ever got this far. As I have mentioned this case did not need to see the light of day as there were lots of 'outs' the PL had to sit on its hands.

In addition, the PL is an major financial and cultural UK product that will be seriously damaged if the case against City gets 'whitewashed'. That is also not good for the UK Govt and I would argue be more detrimental than City being taken to the cleaners and how that would impact the UAE x UK relationship. Let us not forget how much countries around the world (mainly ME) are piling into sport to 'sportwash' to gain soft power. Consequently, the PL reputation cannot be seriously damaged.

Thus, I do not see how anyone can think this has been taken to such lengths if everyone is going to turn around and go 'yeah, Man City haven't done much/anything wrong'.

That requires people to believe that the PL works in such a silo and with such data privacy/security that no one got wind that this was ongoing before it hit the press. That I believe is not possible and why it points to City getting a serious punishment and not getting a very lenient sentence.
 
MrMarcello said:
Is it possible some of the PL clubs pushed for this which led to the PL charges?

Or has that been confirmed, perhaps?
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I have heard that before the charges were made public, several clubs had written letters of complaint about City to the Premier League.
 
Tincanalley said:
City are royally fecked. You read it here
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I agree - I'm convinced that expulsion from the premier league, and thus, must re-apply to EFL for membership and therefore no return to PL for at least 3-4 seasons, will be the minimum that happens. Many of these charges, if proven, are potentially also chargeable in a criminal court in relation to fraudulent accounting, at least as far as I have read on the topic.
 
We can all speculate, but my thought is simple.

If they were going to let city off lightly, they would not have smashed so hard on Everton because it basically invites the comparison. To me, the harshness of the last few punishments - during this investigation - says city are heading for real trouble.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
We can all speculate, but my thought is simple.

If they were going to let city off lightly, they would not have smashed so hard on Everton because it basically invites the comparison. To me, the harshness of the last few punishments - during this investigation - says city are heading for real trouble.
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How I feel also. The Premier League has had ample opportunity to give them a slap on the wrist; they haven't. The British government has had 18 months to intervene; it hasn't, at least not publicly. I'm still preparing myself for disappointment, but I genuinely feel like City are getting the book thrown at them.

I also think, if City don't get the book thrown at them, Everton and Forest, among other clubs, will take their own action against City and/or the Premier League. It's going to be a mess regardless, but throwing the book at City may, ironically, yield the cleanest outcome.
 
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Until City decided to sue the EPL I thought they might get off lightly.

If found guilty I expect they'll be completely screwed.

I mean City even got fined lately over 2m for late kick offs seemingly as a F U from the EPL. I hope all these fines and legal fees are accounted for in their latest accounts too.
 
At worse they’ll spend a season in the Championship and bounce right back up like Juventus. Thats the absolute worst case scenario for them. I doubt they are bothered.
 
Suv666 said:
At worse they’ll spend a season in the Championship and bounce right back up like Juventus. Thats the absolute worst case scenario for them. I doubt they are bothered.
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Juventus are the most popular team in Italy. City will have be lucky to have 200 fans turn up to their championship matches.
 
Sassy Colin said:
The first link is behind a paywall, but the 2nd highlights the impact on the UK economy, not as an export.
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The other two discuss the export element of the PL both in a cultural and financial sense. Finding articles on the discussion of the PL's importance to the UK economy is not hard to find if you Google 'premier league UK economy export' for instance.
 
Woodzy said:
I’ve read that it’s actually 130 charges now?
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On a talk sport podcast Ornestein ( spelling) stated that and if that’s correct it’s a million miles away from a significant number of posters on Bluemoon who claimed that the number had actually been reduced.
It’s also worth mentioning that our , Chelsea, investigaton is close to being concluded and just joining up a couple of dots it seems that any sanction may well be agreed as opposed to being handed down at an IC.The PL will be desperate for ours to be settled in advance of Cities hearing
 
terraloo said:
On a talk sport podcast Ornestein ( spelling) stated that and if that’s correct it’s a million miles away from a significant number of posters on Bluemoon who claimed that the number had actually been reduced.
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Yeh that’s where I got it from too, which is say is probably a very reliable source.
 
horsechoker said:
Juventus are the most popular team in Italy. City will have be lucky to have 200 fans turn up to their championship matches.
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Don’t matter how many turn up
They have the best squad in the league, championship would be a cakewalk.

They’ll be back up and continue with their thieving ways with more impunity claiming now they’d been punished hence all is fair and square.
 
Suv666 said:
Don’t matter how many turn up
They have the best squad in the league, championship would be a cakewalk.

They’ll be back up and continue with their thieving ways with more impunity claiming now they’d been punished hence all is fair and square.
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Will these City players be as loyal as some of the ones at Juve though? City have some decent youngsters coming through, but you think about Haaland, Bernardo, Rodri etc. and whether they really want to spend a year in the Championship?

They will definitely bounce back up, but I think their team will get pretty dismantled.
 
Suv666 said:
Don’t matter how many turn up
They have the best squad in the league, championship would be a cakewalk.

They’ll be back up and continue with their thieving ways with more impunity claiming now they’d been punished hence all is fair and square.
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City wont be able to afford to pay their current squad under FFP in the lower leagues and the significantly reduced income being out of the PL and European competition and no longer being able to cook the books on sponsorship will bring, I wouldnt be so sure they will just bounce back should they be relegated - the transition will destroy them
 
Woodzy said:
Will these City players be as loyal as some of the ones at Juve though? City have some decent youngsters coming through, but you think about Haaland, Bernardo, Rodri etc. and whether they really want to spend a year in the Championship?

They will definitely bounce back up, but I think their team will get pretty dismantled.
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Qatar would stuff their banks with feck knows how much cash through some shady channels.

I reckon most would stay yeah.

Even if a couple leave, they can rebuild eventually and be back at it in 2-3 years max.

They have been conning the league for years, the punishment should be expulsion for a couple of years at least if not permanent and stripping of all titles. Nothing less is acceptable to me.
 
Woodzy said:
Will these City players be as loyal as some of the ones at Juve though? City have some decent youngsters coming through, but you think about Haaland, Bernardo, Rodri etc. and whether they really want to spend a year in the Championship?

They will definitely bounce back up, but I think their team will get pretty dismantled.
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City owners will treble their wages
 
Kylar Stern said:
City wont be able to afford to pay their current squad under FFP in the lower leagues and the significantly reduced income being out of the PL and European competition and no longer being able to cook the books on sponsorship will bring, I wouldnt be so sure they will just bounce back should they be relegated - the transition will destroy them
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I hope you’re right but I have no trust in the current administration, its been an open secret for a decade that City are crooked.

And I know City are smart enough to find and exploit some loophole and be back before it can be patched.
 
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