City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

What I don't understand is this...you have a situation where the team you are investigating is winning every trophy out there, has seemingly infinite resources to fight your charges and you decide to go the longest route possible by placing 115 charges. Could they not have gone the Everton route with FFP and placed separate sets of charges instead of one large batch that will be held up forever.

In the meantime City keeps winning and the league is getting devalued.
 
I hope they are punished but the damage is already done. Multiple teams, mangers, dozens of players have lost out on league titles and CL appearances because of this. They're not coming back, so it will be a very bittersweet moment if it ever comes.
 
Changeisgood said:
What I don't understand is this...you have a situation where the team you are investigating is winning every trophy out there, has seemingly infinite resources to fight your charges and you decide to go the longest route possible by placing 115 charges. Could they not have gone the Everton route with FFP and placed separate sets of charges instead of one large batch that will be held up forever.

In the meantime City keeps winning and the league is getting devalued.
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Agree the strategy looks a little clumsy and haphazard. Maybe the Prem thought that by going this route, the sheer volume of charges would induce some type of settlement or capitulation by City with an eye toward proving the Prem's ability to self-regulate. City has settled in the past even when they could have kept fighting. The other issue is that if you only go with a few charges initially and end up losing, well that would be bad for business. Some of that depends on whether this is strictly an enforcement action from the Prem versus a PR/optics/branding battle, and that is tougher to know without knowing some of the behind the scenes motivations and machinations. No matter what happens, I think City have already lost the PR battle.
 
Lentwood said:
The Premier League are going to be damned if they do, and damned if they don't at this point.

For them to have any credibility whatsoever, City need to he handed a huge punishment. The problem is, that would seem almost like an admittance from the PL that we might as well have not bothered playing the last seven seasons.
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That's for the PL and ourselves as well.
 
Yes, I would agree that City have already lost the PR battle. The overwhelming perception is that they are guilty and that the farce is allowed to continue. I don't even see a whole lot of City fans trying to defend other than the odd deflection in asserting another club also conducts their business in a suspect manner.

If they wanted to enforce the rules, they could have picked a few of the easiest charges to prove and moved on them. We would have had a ruling on the initial charges a long time ago.

The PL has damaged City in the PR department but they have also damaged their own league by ensuring this takes an excessive amount of time.

Feel more and more this is cycling or USADA vs Armstrong part 2. People forget fairly fast but we will stay suspicious as fans of the sport for decades.
 
not seen even a second of footage of citeh presentation and celebrations.

in previous years I’d have seen other captains lift the EPL but I genuinely just can’t give it any attention. Maybe that’s an age thing and just paying less interest to the football spectacle that swallowed me up in my younger years

the first time I see it will probably be the motd intro next season
 
Changeisgood said:
What I don't understand is this...you have a situation where the team you are investigating is winning every trophy out there, has seemingly infinite resources to fight your charges and you decide to go the longest route possible by placing 115 charges. Could they not have gone the Everton route with FFP and placed separate sets of charges instead of one large batch that will be held up forever.

In the meantime City keeps winning and the league is getting devalued.
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No because without the proof of fraud the PSR charges don't hold up. City only fail PSR if the books are wrong. The only way the books are wrong is if City cooked them. The PSR charges will be dismissed if the fraud charges are.

To bring City up on PSR without first proving the books are cooked would see the PL get annihilated. One is completely reliant on the other. If the PL have clear PSR breaches they wouldn't need the commission, it would be wholly seperate.
 
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Sgreddevil said:
Exactly. They just don't have the balls to do it. This is not just a simple breach of FFP like Everton or Forest. It is an accusation of fradulent reporting and refusal to cooperate.
If something of this nature happen in a workplace, I am pretty sure the standard operating procedure is to suspend the employee until he or she has cooperated and cleared the accusation. No company will allow that employee to continue working, getting promotions and bonuses for years. It is a joke in the way they handled the whole situation.
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Yup. The CEO of the Premier League avoiding going to City on the final day just adds to the mess.
 
I don't know the validity of this source, so mods please feel free to delete this post

 
Zen86 said:
I find it interesting that City are rarely pulled into protracted transfer sagas or come up against clubs playing hard-ball with them. Kane I guess is one, I can’t remember many others though. Considering they are the richest club in the world in terms of backing, and heavily active in the transfer market, they rarely get taken to the cleaners on players like many other big clubs do. It’s always very quick, clean, and economical.

There’s very rarely any talk of their players agitating for moves or bigger wages, either.

It’s always been a curious thing
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Fear. If any club wants to poach anyone from them City will destroy them. Imagine Madrid trying to take KDB, City will come back with an insane amount of money to prise half their team by offering say Vinicus 800,000 a week, like they did with Haaland (all illegal under the table payments). No big team wants that. Years ago I read City had an understanding with Madrid, Barca etc. Ie you don't touch your players, we won't touch yours.
 
ArtetasHair said:
Fear. If any club wants to poach anyone from them City will destroy them. Imagine Madrid trying to take KDB, City will come back with an insane amount of money to prise half their team by offering say Vinicus 800,000 a week, like they did with Haaland (all illegal under the table payments). No big team wants that. Years ago I read City had an understanding with Madrid, Barca etc. Ie you don't touch your players, we won't touch yours.
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Exactly, it’s like how PSG punished Barcelona for showing interest in Verratti by matching Neymar’s insane release clause, which resulted in Barcelona spending over £300 million for Coutinho, Dembélé, and Griezmann, none of whom did well.
 
The UK & Abu Dhabi are in the middle of a huge nuclear deal so I would expect the square root of feck all to happen to City when the pigs are all at trough feeding.
 
Some of those charges City have to answer are easily sorted.

Failure to cooperate - they either did or they didn’t.

Failure to provide accurate financial information - again they either did or they didn’t.

That’s the main bulk of the charges that can be sorted out easily.

City's credibility and achievements forever in the mud. Unfortunately the record books will say differently.
 
Paddymcc said:
The UK & Abu Dhabi are in the middle of a huge nuclear deal so I would expect the square root of feck all to happen to City when the pigs are all at trough feeding.
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The deal will go forward with or without City getting punished, City are very minor compared to an already existing relationship with strong financial and defense ties.
 
So the bit I don’t get then is, if the league doesn’t have government powers to do A B and C

can’t they just say, you’re not cooperating, so you’re out the league
 
JagUTD said:
:lol: @ Paddy Power
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Be careful heaping praise on such people. Sorry to be 'that guy' who is 'no craic' but Paddy Power's banter machine is to be suspicioned.

From The Guardian:

'Popular social media accounts, including betting “tipsters” and a cult parody of the footballer James Milner, have been working as part of a marketing network directing users towards a major betting website.

One of the accounts, @AndyRobsonTips, gives the impression that it is run by an individual helping fans beat the bookies. Another, known as @BoringMilner, is widely known as a parody account that posts jokes about football for fun...

...Andy Robson Tips has amassed more than 1 million followers across X, Instagram and Facebook by offering free betting suggestions that bettors can copy, in the hope of beating the bookies. The X account states: “I bet for entertainment,” while the Andy’s Bet Club website refers to having developed the account “while playing [football video game] Fifa in my boxers”.

But there is no person called Andy Robson behind the @andyrobsontips account, a source familiar with the business told the Guardian. Instead, the account is part of Fanwave Digital, a social media marketing business paid by Paddy Power Betfair, part of the £26bn gambling group Flutter, to post betting tips that link to the company’s website.'

'Funny' as their advertising is, lest we forget they too are all sorts of dodge-diddly-odge.

As for city, they'll get off with it.

We all know.
 
padr81 said:
No because without the proof of fraud the PSR charges don't hold up. City only fail PSR if the books are wrong. The only way the books are wrong is if City cooked them. The PSR charges will be dismissed if the fraud charges are.

To bring City up on PSR without first proving the books are cooked would see the PL get annihilated. One is completely reliant on the other. If the PL have clear PSR breaches they wouldn't need the commission, it would be wholly seperate.
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Can't prove the books are cooked if City refuse to provide the books.
 
VARsenal said:
All I really want to know is why City have 35 charges of failing to comply with investigations?
Like honestly, is there anyone who is innocent that doesn't comply with investigations regarding whether they've done something illegal?
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This is so naive (nothing to do with City, just the general concept)
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
A reminder of some of the background re investments and sponsorship …

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It's something I don't get either. There is already so much in the public domain that shows they are guilty - whether they're found guilty by the commission and sanctioned for it is another story, but there is absolutely no doubt about what they've done. People often dismiss it with a "let's wait to see what the commission says" - but you really don't need to.
 
padr81 said:
No because without the proof of fraud the PSR charges don't hold up. City only fail PSR if the books are wrong. The only way the books are wrong is if City cooked them. The PSR charges will be dismissed if the fraud charges are.

To bring City up on PSR without first proving the books are cooked would see the PL get annihilated. One is completely reliant on the other. If the PL have clear PSR breaches they wouldn't need the commission, it would be wholly seperate.
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From what I understand there are 7 PSR charges. PSR rules broken. This in effect the same type of violation Everton or Forrest were deducted points for. We keep hearing the case is very complex and yes it is, but it did not need to be as big as this from what I see. Each PSR charge for starters could have been brought up separately, could they not?

They have been investigating at least since 2018, and again as I see it instead of like Everton and Forrest they have found a way to delay the process denying, dragging their feet, instead of offering mitigating factors. (Apart from the charges for falsifying data)

Obstructing in a normal legal setting is a crime on its own with good reason. There are 35 charges there. Providing false data, which i think there are almost 70 charges for, would I imagine be linked to a PSR charge but they could have been split as per the specific PSR charge? Falsifying or cooking the books is a crime, some heads should already be rolling for that if the accountants were brought up on them. There is a Fraud Act to apply there. The league should be able to request the authorities to look into those.

No way should this have lasted 6 years+. The potential for damage in the meantime to the league and UEFA even, is too significant.
 
adexkola said:
This is so naive (nothing to do with City, just the general concept)
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You're saying you wouldn't do anything to prove your innocence if you knew you'd been falsely accused of something?
 
To put this into perspective....Forrest was found guilty this year for a violation they made the year before. City has yet to go through the actual process for the first determined violation that happened over a decade ago.(2013-2014)
 
VARsenal said:
You're saying you wouldn't do anything to prove your innocence if you knew you'd been falsely accused of something?
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You clearly don’t understand ‘due process’ City don’t have to prove their innocence, the PL have to prove their guilt. That’s how judicial process works.
 
Changeisgood said:
From what I understand there are 7 PSR charges. PSR rules broken. This in effect the same type of violation Everton or Forrest were deducted points for. We keep hearing the case is very complex and yes it is, but it did not need to be as big as this from what I see. Each PSR charge for starters could have been brought up separately, could they not?

They have been investigating at least since 2018, and again as I see it instead of like Everton and Forrest they have found a way to delay the process denying, dragging their feet, instead of offering mitigating factors. (Apart from the charges for falsifying data)

Obstructing in a normal legal setting is a crime on its own with good reason. There are 35 charges there. Providing false data, which i think there are almost 70 charges for, would I imagine be linked to a PSR charge but they could have been split as per the specific PSR charge? Falsifying or cooking the books is a crime, some heads should already be rolling for that if the accountants were brought up on them. There is a Fraud Act to apply there. The league should be able to request the authorities to look into those.

No way should this have lasted 6 years+. The potential for damage in the meantime to the league and UEFA even, is too significant.
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You're missing the point: if the PL can't prove City cooked the books, then they pass PSR.

There's a fine line between obstructing a legal case (jury tampering, tampering with evidence, putting a bomb under the judge's car) and delaying a case using legal tactics. Both are forms of obstruction but you can't deny one side all legal channels to win their case.

And no, the PL can't sic the legal authorities on City with emails that were obtained illegally. The PL as a private organization can do as they please according to their bylaws but there is only so much they can do, which is why you have to question their ability to successfully navigate a situation as complex as this. When they don't have any subpoena power.
 
VARsenal said:
You're saying you wouldn't do anything to prove your innocence if you knew you'd been falsely accused of something?
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I would shut the feck up and let my lawyers handle it.

I must say as a disclaimer I live somewhere where being honest and open is a disadvantage to you, as the authorities are not your friend.

If public perception mattered to me I may act differently.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
They might do, they’re useless at most things but if they do, I hope Everton and Forest take the PL to court… and in an ideal world, the other clubs demand change of who runs it
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Nothing will happen if we did. The PL and the UK decide who they like and dislike and everyone just has to deal with the tough titties of the situation. It's rank.
 
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